gokmengs
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TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 3:07 am

According to the interview with TK Chairman Mr. Karlitekin in todays newspaper, the airline has started discussions with Airbus and Boeing to finalize the order and the decision will be made in September. The order will be for 20 firm and 10+ options with deliveries starting in 2014-2015 according to the article.
Here is the link to the article(in Turkish):http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/yazarlar/6541938.asp?yazarid=41

What do you guys think it will be? Given the history of TK's orders and the political BS it could very well be a mix order. Opinions and guesses are welcomed.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Thread starter):
Chairman Mr. Karlitekin

This guy is pretty crazy he said that in some years they´ll be bigger than LH !

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 


But I think this will be a political order , maybe Sarko and Merkel get them to order Airbus and get for it maybe a better chance to join the EU ...

Just a thought


Konstantin
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A388
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 3:24 am

I think this is one of those orders that indeed will be heavily influenced by politics. Time will tell...

A388
 
1stfl94
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
But I think this will be a political order , maybe Sarko and Merkel get them to order Airbus and get for it maybe a better chance to join the EU ...

It'll take more than a few planes to get Turkey into the EU. I can this order going either way really, both the 787 and 350 make sense, although it might make more sense to be flying the 330/350 than the 330/787.
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Thread starter):
deliveries starting in 2014-2015 according to the article.

Why order 777s for deliveries in 2015?

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
I think this is one of those orders that indeed will be heavily influenced by politics.

Possibly. Expect the usual a.net rethoric upon the announcement.

An A350 order = Pure politics.
A 787 order = The A350 is wrong size, time, tech, etc.
 
LAXintl
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 4:21 am

I would not hold my breath on this one for a September decision, however TK has been seriously reviewing new long haul aircraft since 2005.

Honestly as this stage the decision could go either way, and yes even with THY becoming privatised politics will play a role in the decision making process.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
gokmengs
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
This guy is pretty crazy he said that in some years they´ll be bigger than LH !

I missed that! Where and when did he say that?

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
I would not hold my breath on this one for a September decision, however TK has been seriously reviewing new long haul aircraft since 2005.

You are right as they have been delaying this for a while, but I expect the order in 2007. Just a gut feeling Smile
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 6):

I missed that! Where and when did he say that?

I read that last year in an Interview made ti him by Aero ( a german
aviation magazine) , that was a laugh !
Typical...


Konstantin
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
TurkishWings
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 4:39 am

I read the article too... My vote goes for the A350 as it would make more sense to operate them side by side with the A330. However, TK might want to get a couple of A346s for NRT and JFK as demand for these two flights are usually very high...

Don't forget that there is still the long waited regional aircraft order!!!

On another issue, we will have a new government by September (wishing AKP will not be in power anymore but most likely there will be a CHP/DSP and AKP coalition). This might affect the decision as well....
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
pilotaydin
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 4:55 am

dude, if we get those planes, that basically falls right when i make left seat  Smile score!! i have about 5 years left till 4 stripes....as well as WING i think  Smile so this should be pretty damn exciting  Smile
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 8):
TK might want to get a couple of A346s for NRT and JFK

Then the A350-1000 would make more sense.

I'd like to see TK order the A350, particularly the long range variant of the A350-900 and start non-stop SYD-IST flights thus becoming the gateway to Europe for Australia. Their direct European connections and options would beat SQ, QF, EK, CX, MH etc.

To me the A350-1000, A350-900LR, A350-900 and A350-800 make more sense than 777-300ER, 777-200LR (with and without extra belly tanks) and 787-900. But if they need a craft in the class of the 787-800 then Airbus has nothing to offer other than the A330-200 which TK already operate and could continue to do so. Maybe a mix of A350 and 787 could be plausible and politically pragmatic.

IMHO of course
MH
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EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 10):
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 8):
TK might want to get a couple of A346s for NRT and JFK

Then the A350-1000 would make more sense.

Definitly, and would tie into the 2015 delivery time frame. However if the airline wants to expand capacity in the short term, some A340-600s might be a good solution.

Are the A330s RR powered?
 
MCOflyer
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 11):

Are the A330s RR powered?

GE powered.

MCOflyer
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stylo777
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 8):
TK might want to get a couple of A346s for NRT and JFK as demand for these two flights are usually very high...

I'm not familiar with all the technical facts but I don't think that the the runway at IST is long enough for a fully loaded A346. But correct me if I'm wrong.

In my opinion the decision is done already. TK will go for A350. If you look at their current fleet you'll see a huge Boeing short-haul and an all-Airbus long-haul fleet. And as some of you already mentioned political reasons may influence the decision very high.

just my 2 kurus  twocents   Big grin
 
Motorhussy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Stylo777 (Reply 13):

I'm not familiar with all the technical facts but I don't think that the the runway at IST is long enough for a fully loaded A346.

At 9,842 feet or 3 kilometres, it should be. Because of its increased power to weight ratio (when compared with the 200 and 300 series) its performance is better and a full A343 has no problems at IST (as far as I know).

MH
come visit the south pacific
 
zvezda
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 6:23 am

With deliveries to start in 2014-15, there is no reason to order the obsolescent and expensive 777. This will go to either the A350 or the 787.
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
With deliveries to start in 2014-15, there is no reason to order the obsolescent and expensive 777. This will go to either the A350 or the 787.

One agrument for the 777 is that it could possibly be offered by Boeing as an interm aircraft, but this may not be nessessary in this case.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Why order 777s for deliveries in 2015?

Why are carriers ordering the A332 for delivery in 2010?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 17):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
Why order 777s for deliveries in 2015?

Why are carriers ordering the A332 for delivery in 2010?

Generally one of the folowing:
1. They are adding to existing A330 fleets.
2. They are unable to get 787 or A350 slots in 2010.

Neither of which apply to the case discussed in this thread.

[Edited 2007-05-21 00:20:34]
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
2. They are unable to get 787 or A350 slots in 2010.

Are you sure this wouldn't apply to the A3510 slots in 2015 vs a 773ER order as well? Absolute statements are such final things.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 19):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
2. They are unable to get 787 or A350 slots in 2010.

Are you sure this wouldn't apply to the A3510 slots in 2015 vs a 773ER order as well? Absolute statements are such final things.

Im pretty sure that if you order an A3510 or 773ER now, you can secure slots for them in 2015.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Im pretty sure that if you order an A3510 or 773ER now, you can secure slots for them in 2015.

Pretty sure about the 773ER, not sure about the A3510 given its lack of definition and program commitment. Even assuming that A3510 is wildly popular, TK could be out of luck if they delay their decision and the early line positions are sold out, vis-a-vis carriers ordering the 787 today.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 21):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 20):
Im pretty sure that if you order an A3510 or 773ER now, you can secure slots for them in 2015.

Pretty sure about the 773ER, not sure about the A3510 given its lack of definition and program commitment.

The A350 will have design freeze next year IIRC.

What makes you so sure that they are refering to the A3510 anyway?
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:05 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 22):
What makes you so sure that they are refering to the A3510 anyway?

If you need the seating capacity of the 773ER, an A359 will leave you quite a bit short.

Let's see where we are in five years or so when the first A350's start becoming available.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 23):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 22):
What makes you so sure that they are refering to the A3510 anyway?

If you need the seating capacity of the 773ER, an A359 will leave you quite a bit short.

I should have added - or the 773ER for that matter? THY could easily have the A359/772LR/789 in mind.
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 24):
I should have added - or the 773ER for that matter? THY could easily have the A359/772LR/789 in mind.

Well, if you want a 300 seater to fly less than 8500 nm, then you're in the 789/A359 catergory as they will eclipse the 772ER. Since you brought up the 777 in Reply 4, one has to assume that TK either wants a 300 seater to fly more than 8500 nm (772LR/A359ER) or need more than 350 seats or more (773ER/A3510).

I'd put the A359ER program relative to the 772LR in the same spot as the A3510 relative to the 773ER, too early to tell the level of Airbus commitment yet. We'll know a lot more in five years.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
ThereandBack
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:36 am

The long haul fleet is now all Airbus. If they want to keep it that way they will order the A350.
I personally would like to see an A350 order. But IMO they need to look for additional to add into the fleet now since they need to expand and the A330's that should be doing long haul are doing Europe - Turkey flights instead.
Will they still update the cabins of the A340's if they are going to replace them?
 
EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 25):
Since you brought up the 777 in Reply 4

I was just quoting the thread title. I would be surprised if they are considering 777s for delivery in that timeframe, considering what else is on offer.

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 25):
I'd put the A359ER program relative to the 772LR in the same spot as the A3510 relative to the 773ER, too early to tell the level of Airbus commitment yet. We'll know a lot more in five years.

What do you mean, that airbus are not commited to building them?
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 27):
What do you mean, that airbus are not commited to building them?

Many things can happen in five years and the best laid plans can change. It might be more important for both A and B to commit resources to a single aisle replacement in that time period.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
ThereandBack
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 8:55 am

Do any of you think they will have a first class on these new planes?
 
1stfl94
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 9:13 am

Didn't they used to have a First Class back when they first got the A340s????
 
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TK787
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 10:41 am

ThereAndBack,
I can't see first class in TKs plans, and no they don't have a first class product on the 340s. It would be nice to see if they improve the overall service standards in both econ. and business first.
In the above mentioned article, it also says that the 340s are refurbished, but I have no other source to confirm that.
As I always do, I would love to see this order to go to 787, up to 30+ frames in different combinations, plus to see 739ERs to go with it.
 
ThereandBack
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 11:11 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 31):
In the above mentioned article, it also says that the 340s are refurbished, but I have no other source to confirm that.

I highly doubt that because there are cabin photos on myaviation.net of the A340's that are still old style and you can't see tourquoise from the windows on any of the A340's like you can if you look hard enough on the A330's.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 31):
As I always do, I would love to see this order to go to 787, up to 30+ frames in different combinations, plus to see 739ERs to go with it.

If they went with that many 787 I would hope they would get rid of all the airbuses in thier fleet and that many frames would be great. But with that many planes can you imagine IST in the winter? They would have to send some to ESB just to park.

I was watching a video on youtube filmed on a TK flight in the early 90's and the business class seats were bright red and sky blue. Did they update them once before this last update too?
 
zvezda
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 2:37 pm

Quoting OldAeroGuy (Reply 23):
If you need the seating capacity of the 773ER, an A359 will leave you quite a bit short.

That's not how the market works. That airlines need aircraft with a particular number of seats is an A.net myth. Airlines first look for aircraft with enough range and then either run sophisticated models or next look at those with low enough CASM and take the smallest aircraft with sufficient range and low enough CASM. Size is never the starting point, unless someone is trying to compensate for something.
 
707lvr
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 2:56 pm

Turkey needs every bit of good will that it can muster in the EU if it wants in. Buying a couple of billion dollars worth of Boeing jets would be a very foolish move. This one is Airbus, 100% in the bag.
 
Motorhussy
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 34):
Turkey needs every bit of good will that it can muster in the EU if it wants in. Buying a couple of billion dollars worth of Boeing jets would be a very foolish move. This one is Airbus, 100% in the bag.

Yes, they've already made their concessions to the U.S. by allowing them to fly terror suspects in and out for questioning so as to avoid American soil.

MH
come visit the south pacific
 
gokmengs
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 34):



Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 35):

As much as I would like politics to not be a factor in this, it will be a factor. A look at TK's current routes and the ones that they are looking to start the 787/777 combo would be the best fit for them IMO. Whatever the decision may be 787 and 350 are both extremely fine planes. I still don't think its a lock for Airbus though.
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jacobin777
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):

But I think this will be a political order , maybe Sarko and Merkel get them to order Airbus and get for it maybe a better chance to join the EU ...

...both of whom do not want Turkey to be in the EU (read it on BBC.com a few days ago)....
"Up the Irons!"
 
gokmengs
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 10:41 pm

Political BS aside, can anyone shed light to what the order will/should be?
If they go 787 what variants fits TK's needs?
If they go 350 what variants fits TK's needs?
Thanks
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EI321
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Mon May 21, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 38):
If they go 787 what variants fits TK's needs?
If they go 350 what variants fits TK's needs

Looking at their current fleet, the 788, 789, A358, & A359 would all make sense. If TK are looking to expand, then the A3510 and 7810 cant be ruled out either.
 
jacobin777
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Tue May 22, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 39):

Looking at their current fleet, the 788, 789, A358, & A359 would all make sense. If TK are looking to expand, then the A3510 and 7810 cant be ruled out either.

 checkmark ...I finally agree with you... Smile

all of those planes would make sense in the fleet...some larger planes such as the A350 will suit TK well and some of the smaller B787's will make sense also..
"Up the Irons!"
 
gokmengs
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RE: TK 787/350/777 Order Coming In September

Tue May 22, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 39):
If TK are looking to expand, then the A3510 and 7810 cant be ruled out either.

Its no secret that TK looked for larger capacity aircraft(they even looked at 747 couple years ago) they have some routes that they can use the aircraft, not too long ago 346 was gonna happen but some issues at IST stopped them from doing it. So I believe whatever the choice maybe it will include some of the larger capacity model a la 787-10 and 350-1000.
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