b777a340fan
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Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 12:20 am

Here's something that came to mind: Would it be wise for Airbus to give up its long-range aircrafts (i.e. the A380, A340 programs) and focus on its short-range aircrafts which seem to be quite successful (not to say that the long-range ones aren't). It seems like airlines are interested in its short-range family, so why not focus on it? make the best aircraft it can be, with the latest technology, efficiency, etc...? I wonder how it would work out. Just a thought, don't kill me for it  Silly
 
reality
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 12:22 am

And Boeing should do the same? Why just Airbus?

.

.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Thread starter):
Would it be wise for Airbus to give up its long-range aircrafts (i.e. the A380, A340 programs) and focus on its short-range aircrafts (A320).

Absolutely not. Having a complete family of planes available for sale is what helped Airbus achieve the success they did. When they just built the A300 and A310, they were a niche manufacturer like Lockheed (and to a lesser extent, McDonnell-Douglas). Going back to just the A320 would soon make them irrelevant and vulnerable to Embraer, to say nothing of Russia and the Chinese.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Reality (Reply 1):
And Boeing should do the same? Why just Airbus?

Because Boeing is actually getting some success with it.
 
chiad
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs

Tue May 22, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
Because Boeing is actually getting some success with it.

I would assume that you're trying to pick a little fight here, however I will pretend that you are not, but just a little  blockhead  :
 Smile

http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/
Airbus total widebody orders (not included the month of May 2007): 2167
 
deltadc9
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Chiad (Reply 4):
Airbus total widebody orders (not included the month of May 2007): 2167

To be fair, lately they have seen very few, in fact, if you count the 380 cancellations, they are barely in the positive.

They dont need to give up though, they need to get it right. I would seriously question the 380 program if they lose 2 or more customers and do not gain 2 or more a year, which I really do not know how likely that scenario is.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
deaphen
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:08 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 5):
if you count the 380 cancellations

How many frames and customers does that add up to?
I want every single airport and airplane in India to be on A.net!
 
deltadc9
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 6):
How many frames and customers does that add up to?

Here is what someone else posted on the orders thread based on estinates of actual prices not list:

A330 net 6 @ $112 Million = $0.672 Billion
A340-300 net 6 @ &120 Million = $0.720 Billion
A340-500/600 net 2 @ $148 Million = $0.296 Billion
A350-900 net 2 @ $116 Million = $0.232 Billion
A380 net MINUS 10 @ $190 Million= MINUS $1.900 Billion

Total = $20K

Airbus' widebody business is in need of a big shot in the arm, and it doies not seem like it will come form the 380 program. Strong 330/340 sales and deliveries are all they really have to rely on. A trickle of 380s and deposits on 350s will not allow them to gain ground.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs

Tue May 22, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Deaphen (Reply 6):
How many frames and customers does that add up to?

Are you asking about A380 cancellations?

FX =10
ILFC =5
5X =10

total =25 for with 3 carriers.

As for the topic... Its a mute point and off the wall. A vs B fight posted by the thread starter and needs to be suggested for deletion.

Clearly one is not up to par on competition and not a monopoly.

[Edited 2007-05-21 22:19:47]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
As for the topic... Its a mute point and off the wall. A vs B fight posted by the thread starter and needs to be suggested for deletion.

I disagree, I really did not take it as A vs B, but a good business management question.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Clearly one is not up to par on competition and not a monopoly.

Actually Airbus was beating par with the 330/340 combo and the 380 program single handed put them at a handicap keeping the golf analogy.

If you look at revenue, Boeing has had a near monopoly for the last year and a half. Airbus just needs to get the 350 right, it does not even have to be as good as the 787 but it has to beat the 777. If they can land somewhere in between in size and technology, they will make a lot of money, and that is all that matters. Not taking the 787 on head to head was a wise decision, the 777s smaller market is prime for competition, and the smaller 350 will compete nicely with the larger 787 on a lot of missions. They have loyal customers, and those relationships will tip the scales towards them enough to make a decent 350 a hot seller.

They now have the plane, they just need to execute. The problem is the Albajet, a name I heard and seems appropriate until the 380 stops bringing airbus down.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
Scorpio
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:38 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
Are you asking about A380 cancellations?

FX =10
ILFC =5
5X =10

ILFC hasn't cancelled any A380s.
 
columba
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 8):
FX =10
ILFC =5
5X =10

+ 9 additional SQ
+ 8 additional QF
+ 4 additional EK

Not much and only additional orders but still........
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
airways45
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 3):
Quoting Reality (Reply 1):
And Boeing should do the same? Why just Airbus?

Because Boeing is actually getting some success with it.

So, should GM and Ford pack up and close down Detroit and leave it all to Toyota?

Or, should GM and Ford fight back? Airbus needs to sort itself out not throw in the towel.

And, the airlines need two strong suppliers. It's in nobody's interest to have one dominant player.

Airways45
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs

Tue May 22, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 10):
I disagree, I really did not take it as A vs B, but a good business management question.

No it's not at all... Its a A vs B thread clearly.
You want a good healthy competition across the board for any industry.

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 10):
Boeing has had a near monopoly for the last year and a half.

Really?

Boeing gross orders =1050 2006 (of which 729) were 737 orders! Guess Boeing should do the same huh?
Boeing gross orders =1029 2005 (of which 569) were 737 orders!
total in 2yrs 2079 gross orders.

Airbus gross orders =824 2006
Airbus gross orders =1111 2005
total in 2yrs 1935 gross orders.

The difference is about 144 a/c... Hardly a Boeing monopoly.

[Edited 2007-05-21 22:49:16]

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:00:49]
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
boeingfever777
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 11):
ILFC hasn't cancelled any A380s.

You are correct... They switched A380F's to A380 passenger.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
b777a340fan
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting Airways45 (Reply 12):

So, should GM and Ford pack up and close down Detroit and leave it all to Toyota?

Oh dear, comparatively, GM and Ford are in far worst shape vis a vis the auto industry than is Airbus in the aviation industry. GM and Ford simply cannot compete with the Japanese b/c a) they don't have a good product b) their costs are way more than the japanese c) their reliability is not as good. While this isn't a thread for the auto industry, GM and Ford are in big doo doo and need more revamp than Airbus. If you want a better analogy, take into consideration the recent Daimler Chrysler divorce. Would Daimler sell its Chrysler division if it was successful and making money? No! Daimler lost billions of dollars just so it could reduce its losses. When you see a problematic area, you cut it so it won't bring down the whole ship. Same thing with Airbus that I was suggesting. Again, JUST a suggestion and a mere hypothetical topic up for discussion. I'd be dammed if I live to see the long-haul airbus family die off.

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
No it's not at all... Its a A vs B thread clearly.
You want a good healthy competition across the board for any industry.

Let's not make it into an immature A vs. B thread, which was not the original intent. I was merely asking the feasibility of such endeavor. Not to say that Airbus and/or Boeing is better than one another.
 
CV990
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 4:03 pm

Hi!

I think that's " a good idea ", Airbus "drops" all their long-range a/c program! But then Boeing must drop their shor/medium range program too to be fare!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
keesje
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 4:22 pm

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 15):
Let's not make it into an immature A vs. B thread, which was not the original intent. I was merely asking the feasibility of such endeavor.

If this was about Boeing it would have been deleted within 5 minutes. 100% sure.Luckely not everyone is as alllergic..

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
Boeing gross orders =1050 2006 (of which 729) were 737 orders! Guess Boeing should do the same huh?
Boeing gross orders =1029 2005 (of which 569) were 737 orders!
total in 2yrs 2079 gross orders.

Airbus gross orders =824 2006
Airbus gross orders =1111 2005
total in 2yrs 1935 gross orders.

Take 5 yrs..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:12 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 13):
No it's not at all... Its a A vs B thread clearly.
You want a good healthy competition across the board for any industry.

Then why suggest it?

I would ask people to cast their minds back about 5 years. The 747 revamps failed to gain support. The 767 was over the hill, loosing ground to the A330 bloody rapidly. The 777 and the A340 were more evenly matched. Boeing was having major managerial problmes, and had lost focus.

Then they got it right wth the 787 (off to a slow start, I might add). Fuel prices started rising, tipping the balance over to the 77W/772ER over the A346. (One should bear in mind that the A346 initially outsold the 77L family by a significant margin).

Airbus is going through a difficult time. It is lucky to be able to depend on the A320 and A330 in the interm. BUT these products will need to be replaced. Airbus MUST keep Boeings Y1 in mind when developing the A350, any sip in the A350 will mean the A320NG will be way behind its Boeing counterpart.

So, no, Airbus should not drop its widebody aircraft. But it needs to remember where its bread and butter are, and that is the A320 family.

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
CXfirst
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:16 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 5):
they are barely in the positive

Yet, still they are in positive.

Remember, happy customers with Airbus widebodies, are more likely to order Airbus narrowbodies. A lot of the narrowbodies are on order by airlines that have airbus widebodies. Does anybody see the link?

-CXfirst
 
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distanthorizon
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:25 pm

Hi guys!

This is not a serious discussion, is it?

I assume it is not.

Why doesn't Boeing give up their 777 program? They haven't sold many lately. It is becoming a dead aircraft.
Why doesn't Boeing give up their 747 program? 20 or 30 frames are not enough to justify it!
Why doesn't Boeing concentrate their efforts in a second 787 line? It seems it will turn out to be their salvation!

Those are some non-serious questions that could be included in a non-serious thread! Just for fun!

Don't you agree with me?  Smile

DH
Regards
Nelson SE
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: Could Airbus Eliminate All Its Long-range A/Cs?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:47 pm

There's only one way this thread can go so let's stop it here and now. Thank you
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible

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