EI321
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747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 12:52 am

I came across this feature of a Boeing Concept study, called the Boeing 763-246C , which bears resemblance to a single deck A380. You could almost say its an early ineration of the Y3 concept. It was a design study for a 747 replacement. One thing that struck me is the design of sky lofts in this airliner, which look uncannily like the design that was proposed for the 747-8 Intercontinental.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/q0108.shtml





What is your opinion on the skylofts shown?

[Edited 2007-05-21 17:55:14]
 
centrair
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 9:37 am

Wasn't favored by airlines for the 748i, don't think it would be favored for the 747 replacement. Airlines would use the space for galleys and crew rests. Personally I would love to have a place where I could escape to or maybe a playroom onboard for my daughter (keep her out of the hair of other passengers) but practicality and cost always wins.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Motorhussy
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 10:03 am

Looks kind of claustrophobic to me plus kinda weird having a totally unsupervised area on a plane carrying that many people. Good idea as a crèche, galley and crew rest area though.

Thanks for the interesting post.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
redflyer
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
I came across this feature of a Boeing Concept study, called the Boeing 763-246C , which bears resemblance to a single deck A380.

You should start a new thread on this bird as it's actually quite fascinating; far beyond the topic of skylofts.
My other home is in the sky inside my Piper Cherokee 180.
 
centrair
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 10:58 am

Looking at the picture again. Got a wacko idea.

Instead of skylofts, sky suites. Ultimate First class. The current idea for lofts is that the passengers sit in a regular seat for take-off and landing and can go to the loft during the flight. This is kind of a waste. You want butts in all the seats not just for 30 minutes.

Instead, there could be 10 suites above the main deck. There could be two escape hatches ala 747 pilot escape through the ceiling or at the base of the space. These hatches have slides. By having emergency exits the pax don't have to sit in a regular seat on the main deck for take-off. They can be in their suite. It would be like having the upperdeck of a 747 but much higher class. Each suite has seats for take-off and landing, a bed, dining table, desk and large screen TV. There would be a limit of pax on this upper deck to limit liability but the cost would be very very high.

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 2):
Looks kind of claustrophobic

Yes but think about if JL or NH got these, they could just fill them with tatami mats and futons. It could be a flying Ryokan.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
Devilfish
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 3):
You should start a new thread on this bird as it's actually quite fascinating; far beyond the topic of skylofts.

That 763-246C might actually be a natural candidate for being a derided/shunned (with good reason) trijet. A much lighter, fully composite version could probably make do with three 80-85Klb thrust engines.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
Each suite has seats for take-off and landing, a bed,

Weren't the Skybeds of yore certified for takeoffs and landings?

[Edited 2007-05-22 05:08:50]
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 6:59 pm

Look at the head on view, its a dead ringer for a single deck A380, expecially the wings!
 
aerohottie
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 5):
That 763-246C might actually be a natural candidate for being a derided/shunned (with good reason) trijet. A much lighter, fully composite version could probably make do with three 80-85Klb thrust engines.

Personally I would like Y3 to be a standard 10 abreast at 18.5in seat width (or 11 abreast 17.5in seat width), single level aircraft (kinda like a bigger, wider 777), with twin engines at around 140,000lbs thrust each... hehehe. Could come in two lengths a max at just under 80m (262ft) and a smaller longer range version at just under 62m (I mean 72m). This would allow rome for the 787-10 to be fully developed at 8 or possible 9 abreast.

[Edited 2007-05-22 12:54:36]
What?
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 7):
a smaller longer range version at just under 62m.

Wouldnt that be very similar in size & capacity to the 787-10?
 
aerohottie
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 8):
Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 7):
a smaller longer range version at just under 62m.

Wouldnt that be very similar in size & capacity to the 787-10?

Not with an extra 2 abreast it wouldn't
What?
 
aerohottie
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 8):
Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 7):
a smaller longer range version at just under 62m.

Wouldnt that be very similar in size & capacity to the 787-10?

Sorry just re-read what I wrote... I meant the smaller version to be 72m, not 62m. My apologies
What?
 
AlanUK
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 7:57 pm

Looks wierd. What I want to know... What is the guy waiting for on all fours on the right?  bouncy 
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Tue May 22, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting AlanUK (Reply 11):
What is the guy waiting for on all fours on the right?

Admiring the nice pillow  scratchchin 
 
Tod
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
There could be two escape hatches ala 747 pilot escape through the ceiling or at the base of the space. These hatches have slides.

747 flight deck excape hatch use requires training to be certifiable. To make an excape hatch pax friendly, the size and location of the hatch would add signigant structural weight, then slide would also add weight, the location where the hatches would need to go would be blocked off by all the relocated ducting that need to move outboard when you consider an overhead crewrest or similar space on any Boeing widebody.

The sketch provided by the OP looks similar to the crewrest that International Aero designed for Delta.

Tod
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting Centrair (Reply 4):
Yes but think about if JL or NH got these, they could just fill them with tatami mats and futons. It could be a flying Ryokan.

 laughing  Thanks for this; I laughed out loud! "R" class used to be the Concorde...in future it could be Ryokan class. smile 
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EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 7:20 am

Just looking at the Calvin Klien model that is walking through

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 9):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 8):
Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 7):
a smaller longer range version at just under 62m.

Wouldnt that be very similar in size & capacity to the 787-10?

Not with an extra 2 abreast it wouldn't

It would be very similar, the 787-10 will have 9 abreast, bar a handful of expections. 8 abreast on a 787 will be no more common than 10 abreast on a 777.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
8 abreast on a 787 will be no more common than 10 abreast on a 777.

That is far from true  Yeah sure
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 17):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 16):
8 abreast on a 787 will be no more common than 10 abreast on a 777.

That is far from true

Feel free to explain how so......

[How many operators are putting 8 abreast on their 787s?]
 
CJAContinental
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 8:46 am

We won't see this design replacing the 747. Airbus studied this concept years ago and found that the middle isle would be insufficient for passengers leaving the aircraft during an emergency.

Interestingly though, at 264.4 feet, if that is the correct length, the length would be 80.6 meters.

This would be one huge aircraft!

[Edited 2007-05-23 01:51:50]
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EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 8:54 am

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 19):
We won't see this design replacing the 747. Airbus studied this concept years ago and found that the middle isle would be insufficient for passengers leaving the aircraft during an emergency.

True (I only noticed the third aisle just now!). It is possible to configure a 12 abreast aircraft in two aisles, but I think that the above design wound be better in an A380 type layout. I just dont see lofts making onto an all new aircraft of this size when the cross section is similar in size to the A380s. A double deck layout like the A380 has more revenue earning potential.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 9:14 am

Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 19):
Interestingly though, at 264.4 feet, if that is the correct length, the length would be 80.6 meters. This would be one huge aircraft!

The 747-600 would have been 85.01m in length (278.9ft). The 747-X Stretch was planned to be 79.8m (261.8 ft).
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
Quoting CJAContinental (Reply 19):
Interestingly though, at 264.4 feet, if that is the correct length, the length would be 80.6 meters. This would be one huge aircraft!

The 747-600 would have been 85.01m in length (278.9ft).

Stitch, by any chance do you know where I can find a detailed 747-600 spec? Im curious what the weight effeciency ratio would have been like compared to the A380, considering that the 747-8s is apparently less than that of the 747-400.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 22):
Stitch, by any chance do you know where I can find a detailed 747-600 spec? Im curious what the weight effeciency ratio would have been like compared to the A380, considering that the 747-8s is apparently less than that of the 747-400.

This is all I have for her:

747-600X Length: 278.9ft / 85.01m
747-600X Wingspan: 255ft / 77.72m
747-600X Horizontal Stabilizer Span: 78.1ft / 78.08m
747-600X Height: 71ft / 21.64m
747-600X Cabin Width: 20ft / 6.1m
747-600X MTOW: 1,200,000lbs / 544,320kg
747-600X MLW: 845,000lbs / 383,292kg
747-600X OEW: N/A
747-600X MZFW: N/A
747-600X Maximum Range: 7,750nm / 14353km

It comes from the 1998 Edition of Burns and MdDonnel's Aircraft Characteristics and a few other sources and is preliminary data.
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
This is all I have for her:

Wasnt it also to have a twin nosegear setup, like the AN225? It would have been an awesome machine.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 24):
Wasnt it also to have a twin nosegear setup, like the AN225? It would have been an awesome machine.

It doesn't look like it from the drawings, but it would have had 777-style triple-axle wing main bogies (as would the 747-500 and 747-700) along with the standard double-axle twin centerline main bogies.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
[How many operators are putting 8 abreast on their 787s?]

To date more than one third. That is a far cry from the number of carriers who fit 10-abreast into the 777. Troll at your own risk.
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 26):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 18):
[How many operators are putting 8 abreast on their 787s?]

To date more than one third.

Are you quoting a market estimation, or actual numbers? Can you name them? Boeing have also said that two thirds of 747-8s will be Intercontentals. I just dont believe it, economics will take over. And thats not a bad thing.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 11:06 am

Boeing's own comments say that around 2/3rds of orders are going for nine-abreast which leaves a third at eight.

Plus Airbus' own data shows only .3" extra seat width in the A350 at nine-abreast (17.5" vs. 17.2" on the 787) so pretty much nobody is going to notice the difference between the two so it's not really a big deal, either way, for either manufacturer.
 
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BreninTW
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 3:17 pm

Anyone else notice that the concept drawing has FIVE MLG bodies in a 3-2 configuration?
 
EI321
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RE: 747-8 Skylofts Concept

Wed May 23, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Boeing's own comments say that around 2/3rds of orders are going for nine-abreast which leaves a third at eight.

I know, but I dont believe a third will be 8 abreast in the end. We dont see many 747-400s configured in 9 abreast for the same reasons - airlines want low CASMs, and as long as the seat width is acceptable them will pack 'em in.

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