nzblue
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F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Tue May 22, 2007 11:34 pm

Service begins November 30, 2007, operating Mon, Wed, Fri, Sat.

Flight: 86 (DEN-SJO)
Departs: 12:10am
Arrives: 6:25am

Flight: 87 (SJO-DEN)
Departs: 7:30am
Arrives: 12:15pm
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juanchito
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Tue May 22, 2007 11:38 pm

Great news, I imagine they will go daily later on.

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ont 737
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Tue May 22, 2007 11:52 pm

They should fly to LIR instead.
 
SpencerII
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Tue May 22, 2007 11:53 pm

Thats quite a departure time on both ends.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Ont 737 (Reply 2):
They should fly to LIR instead.

Why? SJO is a much bigger market.
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quickmover
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 12:22 am

What's the mileage on that route? Looks like a long one.
 
LAXintl
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 1:02 am

Yes SJO is a bigger market on its own, however if you are after tourism (as F9 has done with Mexico) the Guanacaste Coast is the place to be and is now served directly via LIR. The drive from SJO can be upwards of 8 hours depending what beach or resorts you end up in. Now if F9 want to also go after some ethnic travel also then SJO is definately the place to be.

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GARUDAROD
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 1:12 am

It didn't take F9 long to announce the schedules, they just applied for the authority last week.
I would imagine they will add LIR as a winter travel destination at some point.
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MaverickM11
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 6):
Yes SJO is a bigger market on its own, however if you are after tourism (as F9 has done with Mexico) the Guanacaste

Regardless...the DENSJO market is bigger than LIR (almost 3 times bigger), so why would you want to send a plane to LIR over SJO?
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LAXintl
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Regardless...the DENSJO market is bigger than LIR (almost 3 times bigger), so why would you want to send a plane to LIR over SJO?

Yes SJO is bigger, however many people (the tourist) are forced to fly to SJO to simply travel beyond.

That why with the opening of LIR to commercial services more and more direct flights are being offered. LIR actually has the distinction of being served by all the US majors while some never land even land in SJO. (NW, UA etc)
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
Yes SJO is bigger, however many people (the tourist) are forced to fly to SJO to simply travel beyond.

It is a big leap for a small airline. I would guess that Apple Vacations and others have had a voice in this.

If it goes well, they can always add LIR.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
LIR actually has the distinction of being served by all the US majors while some never land even land in SJO. (NW, UA etc)

Perhaps that is another good reason for SJO?

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CV990A
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 5:42 am

So what are they going to do about the Live TV on this flight? I'd presume they are going out of the range of the Satelites- are they planning on offering more than the single F9 channel, so is it just a 'too bad' sorta arrangement?
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mkorpal
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting CV990A (Reply 11):
So what are they going to do about the Live TV on this flight? I'd presume they are going out of the range of the Satelites- are they planning on offering more than the single F9 channel, so is it just a 'too bad' sorta arrangement?

They only work in US airspace. They usually offer it for free on Mexico flights until it cuts out. After that, I think it's just the on demand movies and the single channel.
 
F9Animal
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 12):

They only work in US airspace. They usually offer it for free on Mexico flights until it cuts out. After that, I think it's just the on demand movies and the single channel.

That is correct. The service ends a little after hitting the borders. Wild Blue channel is ending, but they are going to offer the map for free. They may offer free movies as a start, or they may just offer free movies on the route. I think it would be a nice touch for the route.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 10):
It is a big leap for a small airline. I would guess that Apple Vacations and others have had a voice in this.

If it goes well, they can always add LIR.

Oh yes! This is excellent news, and a HUGE leap for F9. My old man lives in SJO, and he has few options when he comes back to the states every month. There is a large US population of retired folk in Costa Rica, and this is indeed going to be a successful route.
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Juanchito (Reply 1):
I imagine they will go daily later on.

It's curious that there is no "pure" Saturday service. Saturday is the big day for travel from DEN to the Mexican resorts.

Because the flight leaves just after midnight, the Friday flight could be called Saturday, but it isn't quite the same.

And, with 4 x weekly, what does that aircraft do on the other three days? So far, the only other non-daily red-eye is LAS-MEM, but the days collide.

I guess if the bookings go well, they could easily bump up service - or they could add DEN-LIR - or somewhere else - as a 3 x weekly?

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Tango-Bravo
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
What's the mileage on that route? Looks like a long one.

2,408 miles; comparable to U.S. transcon routes.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 13):
Wild Blue channel is ending

Why? Not that I'm opposed Wink
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Why? Not that I'm opposed

The channel itslf is ending, but there will still be some free programming:

"Some of its free programming will still air before planes take off and after in-flight movies end."

http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_5867945

"Having a free channel held down Frontier's pay-per-view revenue, said John C. Greenwood."

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F9Animal
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 8:46 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Why? Not that I'm opposed Wink

I found it to be somewhat entertaining when I did not feel like paying the $5.00. I guess anything would be entertaining at 35,000 feet on a small screen. LOL!  Smile
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DL777LAX
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 18):
I guess anything would be entertaining at 35,000 feet on a small screen. LOL!

Like an iPod or PSP?

Hopefully F9 has solid results on this flights. Anyone know what there stock price is up to?
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 19):
Anyone know what there stock price is up to?

Oh, well beaten down. Wall Street still has the conventional wisdom that Southwest at DEN - plus a resurgent post-bk United - will destroy Frontier.

But - happily - it is also immune to the wild swings the legacy carrier shares have been showing this past few days. It is fascinating to Allegiant trading for $4 per share higher than American Airlines - and $12 higher than Delta.

 Smile

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Kohflot
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 20):
Oh, well beaten down. Wall Street still has the conventional wisdom that Southwest at DEN - plus a resurgent post-bk United - will destroy Frontier.

This is, IMO, a fascinating topic and not totally astray from the original discussion here.

FRNT (the stock) definitely appears to be stuck in the doldrums. I think the main factors boil down to: high fuel prices, a sluggish pricing environment, UA and WN, limited real estate at DEN, and the perception that F9 can't make anything work outside of DEN (save, of course, Mexico).

I'm not sure what would help either.. short of UA announcing they're selling their DEN assets to CO. Even reliably making money isn't good enough (much to the chagrin of LUV holders).

It seems like Frontier's management thinks the best course of action is to just keep their heads down and run a smart airline.. don't be afraid to try new routes, flee without looking back when they don't work, wisely implement the E170, and diversify with Lynx. I just wonder if institutional holders will have the patience to see it all through.
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 21):
I just wonder if institutional holders will have the patience to see it all through.

If they've stuck with this long, I can't think why they'd pull out now.

I think your analysis is spot on, but I believe that the major problem is the Conventional Wisdom - that Southwest and United will squeeze Frontier out.

In fact, United is the one having financial problems at DEN - as the CEO noted in their last quarterly report - and Southwest at DEN is not a total scorched earth victory.

As to the "non-DEN" issue, LAX-SJD and MEM-MCO might put paid to that - Frontier appears to have broken the jinx.

But - these days - they don't particularly want "non-DEN. They tried being more like Southwest, and have, happily, decided that being Frontier is better.

But the Conventional Wisdom is hard to change. Scott McCartney did a piece in the WSJ talking about Southwest at DEN making United feel pain - and only as a side issue observed that Frontier has actually increased market share.

But it does change - slowly the "sell" ratings are changing to "hold". Then again, most analysts are based on the east coast and have no conception of the Frontier operation at DEN.

So Frontier has invited about forty analysts to DEN for a two-day junket, to see what is going on.

That'll be interesting.

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g4resagent
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 12:20 pm

This has probably been posted elsewhere, but when does Horizon stop flying as F9 JetConnect? And when does Lynx start flying?
 
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 12:32 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 22):
As to the "non-DEN" issue, LAX-SJD and MEM-MCO might put paid to that - Frontier appears to have broken the jinx.

Which ties in nicely with the topic at hand. Can SJO (or LIR) become the next CUN or SJD for F9? They indicated they want to serve Costa Rica from "points in the US".

Outside of DEN, there are a handful of markets that might work.. LAX comes to mind right away. It's longer than DEN-SJO by about 300 miles though.. and that may just be pushing the 319 to its limits, especially with unfavorable takeoff weights restrictions at SJO.

SFO-SJO might work too, but it's over 3000 miles.

So then we head east.. apparently HP has had problems making PHX-SJO work, even with connections. AA and CO have DFW and IAH tied up. MCI, STL, MEM, and IND are probably just too small without any sort of package tour connection. South Florida to Costa Rica isn't happening, and I don't see MCO as a real possibility either. ATL would prompt Delta to offer hourly flights on B763s with quadruple miles and free mojitos. And MSP would force NW to figure out how to get an armada of DC-9s there and back.

So that leaves these interesting but maybe not-so-great options.. AUS, SAT, MDW, and BNA.

And these intruiging options.. LAX and PHL.. the latter taking advantage of some weakness in US's armor there. Tis a shame BWI isn't on the route map anymore. I think BWI-SJO would have been a winner.. at least a few times a week.

PS - Dear Frontier.. speaking of the route map.. what's up there? Does your site just not like Firefox or Netscape or is everyone forced to break out the magnifying glass? I jest, but wow.. that's tiny.
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 12:44 pm

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 24):
Can SJO (or LIR) become the next CUN or SJD for F9?

Oh, I don't think so. There may be one or two more routes to Costa Rica (non-DEN), but I think it's much more likely that the hints for other places they've been throwing out will happen.

They've been negotiating with Jamaica for three years (I'm not sure what takes so long) and I assume that BZE is on the possible list.

There are also a couple more possible Mexico routes, good ones.

But the pace of mainline expansion will slow for a bit - there are only two new mainline aircraft due next year, the first 2 x A320 - while they concentrate on Lynx and getting the additional Republic fleet into the system.

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 24):
Tis a shame BWI isn't on the route map anymore.

Maybe, but given the heavily reduced yield at BWI (Southwest) I'm happier with BDL. And JAX, for example, is shaping up like gangbusters.

Quoting G4resagent (Reply 23):
This has probably been posted elsewhere, but when does Horizon stop flying as F9 JetConnect? And when does Lynx start flying?

Horizon gone in December, as the Republic fleet takes over, and Lynx starts flying in September. We are expecting route announcements (for Lynx) in the next few days.

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LTU932
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting NZblue (Thread starter):
Flight: 86 (DEN-SJO)
Departs: 12:10am
Arrives: 6:25am

Flight: 87 (SJO-DEN)
Departs: 7:30am
Arrives: 12:15pm

Curious timings. I don't know if passengers are going to be happy with that midnight departure. Too bad for the SJO spotters, because those A319s will be a bit hard to spot at such early hours in the morning.

As for LIR becoming a possible destination for F9, personally I'd put my money into DEN-LIR starting in about a year at earliest. LIR is a moneymaker that can't be ignored that easily, or else none of the legacies would be serving LIR.
 
MAH4546
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 24):

And these intruiging options.. LAX and PHL.. the latter taking advantage of some weakness in US's armor there.

AA and LR fly LAX-SJO and US is on PHL-SJO. IMO, I don't really see room for Frontier on either route.
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tripleboom
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 3:48 pm

Quoting NZblue (Thread starter):
Flight: 86 (DEN-SJO)
Departs: 12:10am
Arrives: 6:25am

Flight: 87 (SJO-DEN)
Departs: 7:30am
Arrives: 12:15pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 26):
Curious timings.



Quoting Kohflot (Reply 24):
may just be pushing the 319 to its limits, especially with unfavorable takeoff weights restrictions at SJO.

I'm not a pilot, I don't know a lot about weight restrictions, nor how temperature affects them, but might the timings of the flight's arrival and more to the point, its departure out of SJO have to do with the cooler temperature of the morning allowing for fewer take off restrictions due to temperature, and thus an A319 that can work on this route from other points in the U.S.?
 
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LTU932
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Tripleboom (Reply 28):
I'm not a pilot, I don't know a lot about weight restrictions, nor how temperature affects them, but might the timings of the flight's arrival and more to the point, its departure out of SJO have to do with the cooler temperature of the morning allowing for fewer take off restrictions due to temperature, and thus an A319 that can work on this route from other points in the U.S.?

Well, isn't that why DEN has that over 16,000 ft long RW34L/16R?
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 4:25 pm

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 24):
and that may just be pushing the 319 to its limits, especially with unfavorable takeoff weights restrictions at SJO.

I believe Lacsa uses the A319 for LAX-SJO, which is, as you say, 300 miles longer than DEN-SJO, so I guess it's possible.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 26):
Curious timings. I don't know if passengers are going to be happy with that midnight departure.

Travelocty says the Lacsa flight leaves LAX at 2.30 am, which isn't all that pretty.  Smile

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tripleboom
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 23, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 29):
Well, isn't that why DEN has that over 16,000 ft long RW34L/16R?

My question had more to do with the take offs out of SJO that from what has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum can be quite challenging on one of the runways in SJO. So rather than weight restrictions at DEN, what about weight restrictions due to temperatures in SJO. Would an 0730 departure be less weight restricted than a 1430 departure?
 
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LTU932
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Thu May 24, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Tripleboom (Reply 31):
My question had more to do with the take offs out of SJO that from what has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum can be quite challenging on one of the runways in SJO. So rather than weight restrictions at DEN, what about weight restrictions due to temperatures in SJO. Would an 0730 departure be less weight restricted than a 1430 departure?

Probably, but the AC flight to YYZ departs in the afternoon as well, and has no problems taking off from RW07. RW07 is IMO more restricted for longhaul widebodies because of the obstacles that need to be cleared and with the aircraft being very heavy.

I live under the departure and approach path of RW07/RW25, and I can tell you that a DE 767-300ER taking off to SDQ at 09:30 LT climbs much slower than a DL 767-300A taking off to ATL in the early afternoon. All of this even though SJO-SDQ has a shorter still air distance than SJO-ATL and with the SDQ flight taking the straighter PARAISO departure. Even IB's SJO-MAD flights are difficult. The aircraft tends to barely climb when doing its initial turn after departing RW07 at around 20:30 LT.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Thu May 24, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 24):
or is everyone forced to break out the magnifying glass?

I think they heard you. Click on the map - it opens in a new window.  Smile

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kingcavalier
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 30, 2007 9:47 pm

Looks like we'll see a 2nd Costa Rican destination announced soon?

http://www.denverpost.com/airlines/ci_6015715
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CVG777
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Wed May 30, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 34):
Looks like we'll see a 2nd Costa Rican destination announced soon?

Liberia is probably in the works then. Now they can better cover tourism on both coasts of the country, if they do start Liberia.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Announces San Jose, CR Schedule

Thu May 31, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 34):
Looks like we'll see a 2nd Costa Rican destination announced soon?

And/or, according to that article, possibly from Los Angeles.

I've read the SEC filing and yes, the article is correct - Frontier tells the SEC that their approval from the DOT is specifically for Denver and Los Angeles to Costa Rica.

But - the DOT filing does not say that - or I can't see it. It says "points in the USA". The DOT filing only mentions LAX in reference to the successful application for LAX-SJD.

So - um - what's going on here?  Smile

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