AF086
Topic Author
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 8:39 am

Gentlemen,

It's already bookable at VARIG's website:

EFF 16JUN

RG 8778 GIG 12h05 FRA 05h05+1 B763 DAILY
RG 8779 FRA 06h35 GIG 14h05 B763 DAILY


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Photo © Paulo Carvalho


[Edited 2007-05-23 01:53:13]

[Edited 2007-05-23 01:54:12]

[Edited 2007-05-23 01:56:15]
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 9:07 am

And the battle for FRA begins....

Three planes to run 2 FRA flights only to keep the frequencies... the GIG-FRA timetable is amazing, but the FRA-GIG is something terrible ! Seems that the focus is just to keep the slots.. let's see how ANAC reacts as RG will keep their flights as they need to before June 28.

The only way for TAM will be an increase on the bilateral from 22 to at least 29 weekly flights.

Good to see FRA back as an option to Rio.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 9:38 am

Where else do they serve in Europe....they had a few places before they pretty much went kapput
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
C010T3
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 9:42 am

Actually, Rio has two options. The GIG-GRU tag-on remains, since it is needed for the rotation of the three 763.

RG 8740 GIG 19h15 GRU 20h15 21h15 FRA 14h30+1 B763
RG 8741 FRA 22h05 GRU 05h00 06h45 GIG 07h45+1 B763

GIG-FRA double daily!!!

P.S.: For the people who like long layovers, specially in Rio, GRU-GIG-FRA and FRA-GIG-GRU are also possible!  bouncy 
 
AF086
Topic Author
Posts: 506
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:45 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Venezuela747 (Reply 2):
Where else do they serve in Europe....they had a few places before they pretty much went kapput

So far they only serve FRA but there are expansion plans though.
Please insert a "smart" joke here.
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:09 am

FRA without any code-share with other airlines or not being an alliance member, operating from GIG and with a lousy B763? Seems they keep the old DNA and out of their minds.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24601
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:14 am

This is a complete waste without a partner in Frankfurt. They need to return to Miami, New York City, and Madrid, cities where they do not need an alliance partner to fill flights. Frankfurt needs an alliance partner.
a.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 5):
FRA without any code-share with other airlines or not being an alliance member, operating from GIG and with a lousy B763? Seems they keep the old DNA and out of their minds.

With such time table, aircraft and no partnership no one destination will be profitable. It's not a matter of airport, remember that GIG does not hold a non-stop to FRA, but with such schedule ? Give me a break !

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:20 am

'GOL" Linhas Aéreas Inteligentes....
 
C010T3
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:39 am

TAM - Táxi Aéreo Marília
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 9):

Suggest to actualize yourself. It changed in 2001 to TAM- LINHAS AEREAS S.A and there is not MARILIA anymore.

Sleep well,  Embarrassment
 
C010T3
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 10):
Suggest to actualize yourself. It changed in 2001 to TAM- LINHAS AEREAS S.A and there is not MARILIA anymore.

Sleep well, Embarrassment

I am very aware of that.

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 5):
Seems they keep the old DNA and out of their minds.

I'm afraid DNA is not something you can get rid of. I think there's nothing worse than renegading one's past and origins. Marília will always be there to haunt JJ. If it weren't such a delicate subject, you wouldn't even bother.
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 8:37 pm

Bro,

I don´t want to turn this any dispute between you and me ok? But I can guarantee you that I don´t give a dam to this thing of Marilia, Bauru, Araçatuba, etc...you are taking this as something personal while I never wanted too.

Have a ice day  Silly  cool 
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:20 pm

Back to civil aviation, i heard some comments yesterday about how is the status for the 763 to be used by RG/G3 in order to replace the M11 as well as to add this 2nd flight to FRA.

They should need some huge investment... no IFE, several seats even without radio while some are broken... hope the guys at VEM GIG can handle this, otherwise the only thing will happen is customers will choose another airlines in the future!

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
vbeltraJJ
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:13 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 10:42 pm

This comments just shows us that they are going the wrong way with non profitable airplanes, no partners on those routes and without any planing just to keep their rights. What will come next ? Several flights cancelations and stuff? Let´s just wait to see things going next months.

Cheers,

Victor
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:06 pm

Victor,

I hate B767´s any series...always. My real desire is to have the chance of have a beer on a can where it is written " recycled B767"...but nobody can deny it is a profitable aircraft. I would say it is the wrong aircraft for this long sector. A B767 is a perfect horse for 6 to 7 hrs of flight. More than this is a nightmare from the pax point of view in terms of comfort, etc.

cheers
 
tonytifao
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:08 pm

Maybe they will have very low fares to begin with while they improve their aircraft conditions?

I think GOL is pretty smart company and they might have some really good plans for the future  Smile Lets at least hope  Wink
 
vbeltraJJ
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:13 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:25 pm

Richard,

I remember that you told me that (about the beer can made of recycled B767 metal) once some time ago, when I was a trainee at TAM and was at your department getting some of your experience. I always thought that this really funny anyway.
Well, nice to hear from you again.

Cheers,

Victor
 
bsbisland
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:36 pm

Who would take a flight at 06:35am in Frankfurt? This is the worst schedule they could make for this route. Even for pax close to Frankfurt it's quite difficult to get to the airport in the middle of the night.

If the flight departed GIG some 4 hours later, making GIG-FRA 16:05-09:05 and FRA-GIG 10:35-18:05, the schedule would be more efficient to get some more pax in FRA and still connecting pax at GIG on evening flights.
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting AF086 (Thread starter):
EFF 16JUN

RG 8778 GIG 12h05 FRA 05h05+1 B763 DAILY
RG 8779 FRA 06h35 GIG 14h05 B763 DAILY

Just ridiculous!!! I'll bet many PAX (specially business oriented) would love to leave FRA at 6h35 and waste 1 day of hotel for nothing.

Anyways, RG is set to fail if they keep this idea of using second handed B767 in markets such as CDG, FRA & LHR.
 
Thorben
Posts: 2713
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 18):

If the flight departed GIG some 4 hours later, making GIG-FRA 16:05-09:05 and FRA-GIG 10:35-18:05, the schedule would be more efficient to get some more pax in FRA and still connecting pax at GIG on evening flights.

I agree, the timing of the flight is really bad. But they only have to fill a 767, not a T7 or MD-11
France 1789; Eastern Germany 1989; Tunisia 2011; Egypt 2011
 
airbazar
Posts: 6954
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Wed May 23, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 15):
A B767 is a perfect horse for 6 to 7 hrs of flight. More than this is a nightmare from the pax point of view in terms of comfort, etc.

Exactly how do you rate comfort? The 767 is the widebody aircraft with the least middle seats for a passenger. If you're speaking specificaly about RG's 767's then that's a different story. The loads on a 767 would have to be very high for you to end up on a middle seat and to me that is a big plus.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 12:27 am

Guys, i disagree about how the 767 is rated in here.

I'm sorry but UA and CO keep very good 767 frames, so update as many A332 and even 772 on customer view in terms of entertainment. And up to 9h flights are not that bad for a 763.
One thing is a Varig old 767-300, another is a CO 764 or 762, DL 764, UA 763.... we can't say ALL Boeing 767.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
jog
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:05 am

I just checked the public transport. You can arrive at 3:30 at Frankfurt airport with an ICE train that left Basel at 23:30 the evening before. Alternatively, you can use the first local S-Bahn from downtown Frankfurt arriving at 4:30. Besides this, there are a few long-haul flights which would also arrive just in-time for a connection around 5:30. But from within Europe I did not see a single reasonable connection...

So, my personal guess is that RG just wants to help their customers with the jet-lag. As you have to check-in at 4:30 and you have to get to the airport before there is not really a point for having a hotel/sleep that night. So, as soon as you are on board you might be able to sleep. And this is just 1.30am Brazilian time. So you can have some decent sleep and a nice breakfast afterwards...  Wink

[Edited 2007-05-23 18:05:49]
 
C010T3
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting VbeltraJJ (Reply 14):
no partners on those routes

Well, they have the Deutsche Bahn! It's the best thing, if you want to go BSL, STR, MHG, QMZ, ESS, DTM, KSF, NUE, WIE, BRE, HAJ, FKB, HAM etc.
 
incitatus
Posts: 2718
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 15):
A B767 is a perfect horse for 6 to 7 hrs of flight. More than this is a nightmare from the pax point of view in terms of comfort, etc.

The 7-abreast config of the 767 is very good from the passenger point of view. Six out of seven passengers in coach have either a window or an aisle seat. It beats the 777 and the 747 in that sense. The rest - seat comfort and IFE - depends on the airline.

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 18):
Even for pax close to Frankfurt it's quite difficult to get to the airport in the middle of the night.

The autobahn early in the morning is quite good. The 6- or 8-lane sections close to Frankfurt are one of the few places one can still go 250 kph steady off-hours.
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PHKLM
Posts: 788
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RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):

The autobahn early in the morning is quite good. The 6- or 8-lane sections close to Frankfurt are one of the few places one can still go 250 kph steady off-hours.

Most other people might have a slightly different perception of a relaxing start of their holiday to the beaches of Brazil; but who knows? Big grin
 
jog
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:40 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):
The autobahn early in the morning is quite good. The 6- or 8-lane sections close to Frankfurt are one of the few places one can still go 250 kph steady off-hours.

How could I think about public transport...  banghead 

Quoting PHKLM (Reply 26):
Most other people might have a slightly different perception of a relaxing start of their holiday to the beaches of Brazil; but who knows? Big grin

The same as myself... you also missed the point... This is a special service, dedicated for all the Brazilian Formula One drivers that are not yet able to buy the whole First class on a JJ flight...  checkeredflag 
 
bocajoe
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 6:41 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 2:48 am

I really don't care about what type of airplane that will be used (767, 747, DC-10, MD-11, 707).

I will be happy flying again in the 707 to GRU-FRA if I need. What really counts it's the compass in the tail.

VARIG it's back, I'm happy.

Thanks,

[Edited 2007-05-23 19:50:06]
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat May 13, 2000 2:50 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 4:53 am

Well looks like this recent move is only intended to keep the 07 frequencies they have, since ANAC has just denied RG an extension of the deadline for reintroducing some of their International flights that were dropped after the financial crisis back in 2006. According to Folha Online, the airline has until June 18th to restart those service, otherwise, those frequencies will be distributed to other Airlines (TAM, Ocean Air & BRA) that have shown interest in using it.

This decision was based on the allegation that if the deadline was indeed postponed, it would've been unfair (unprivileged) with the other carriers that are willing to use the same frequencies, currently on RG hands.

Sorry link only in Portuguese:
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/dinheiro/ult91u117447.shtml

I have to congratulate ANAC on this one! Looks like they've come to a sense that RG's acquisition by GOL does not change the fact that RG will have to comply with the government determinations, regardless of GOL's potential to invest in the new RG.
 
vbeltraJJ
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:13 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 5:13 am

That´s a surprise for me who criticised how have RG been helped by previous governors. Congratulations to ANAC and I hope Brazil starts to get into the right way this time, at least concerning aviation talking about serious airlines like TAM, Gol, OceanAir and others...

Cheers,

Victor
 
bsbisland
Posts: 315
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:45 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 25):
The autobahn early in the morning is quite good. The 6- or 8-lane sections close to Frankfurt are one of the few places one can still go 250 kph steady off-hours.

This is true, but I was referring to public transport, such as trains or buses and connections from other European cities. I believe a considerable amount of pax would go to Frankfurt Airport this way. I don´t know how public transport is in Frankfurt and other cities in the region to FRA but I would assume that is not so easy to get to the airport at 4:00am. If you can rent a car, take a cab or park it at the airport that's another story.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting Bocajoe (Reply 28):
really don't care about what type of airplane that will be used (767, 747, DC-10, MD-11, 707).

I will be happy flying again in the 707 to GRU-FRA if I need. What really counts it's the compass in the tail.

VARIG it's back, I'm happy.

Thanks,

That's the spirit!  bigthumbsup   bouncy 

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 31):
This is true, but I was referring to public transport, such as trains or buses and connections from other European cities. I believe a considerable amount of pax would go to Frankfurt Airport this way. I don´t know how public transport is in Frankfurt and other cities in the region to FRA but I would assume that is not so easy to get to the airport at 4:00am. If you can rent a car, take a cab or park it at the airport that's another story.

Actually, it is not that difficult. At least not from Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof and some other stations. Here is a PDF file with all alternatives from FRA to Ffm Hbf and from Ffm Hbf to FRA between 12:00 am and 7:00 am:
http://www.rmv.de/auskunft/bin/p2w/q...dn&dwn=u3/u3k8ijwsg2ks8nc4_1_1.pdf
 
JJMNGR
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed May 26, 2004 9:06 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 21):
Exactly how do you rate comfort? The 767 is the widebody aircraft

My opinion is that a B767 should be considered as a medium body and not a widebody.

Sorry B767 lovers...but it is my opinion and not directly to RG 767 but the aircraft itself.

Victor, you are always very welcome! Pass by whenever you can for a cup of coffee.
 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:13 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 6:54 am

With the withdrawl of Varig from Star Alliance, how does FRA even remain a priority or profitable??
Above and Beyond
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 34):
With the withdrawl of Varig from Star Alliance, how does FRA even remain a priority or profitable??

It's a corporate matter now ! Varig will fly 2x daily just not to allow TAM to get the frequencies. They will lost LHR, CDG, MXP.. but their idea is... FRA we can't loose ! It's not profitable 1x daily nowadays, imagine 2x daily !

The only way to become profitable is the lack of service between Rio and Europe. FRA can be an interesting option, including the need of Thyssen which is building a huge facility in Rio de Janeiro, with more than EUR 2 billion invested, more than 3,000 technicals flying between Germany and Rio on a regular basis during the next 2 years as well as some contractors and service providers.

But i believe LH is looking for this also.....

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
MarioSPlane
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:45 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 13):
They should need some huge investment... no IFE, several seats even without radio while some are broken... hope the guys at VEM GIG can handle this, otherwise the only thing will happen is customers will choose another airlines in the future!

Lipe, do you know if these 767s are going to be fitted with a two class layout already ?

Cheers
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting MarioSPlane (Reply 36):
Lipe, do you know if these 767s are going to be fitted with a two class layout already ?

Yes Mario, their set-up will be 2 classes, 36C 180Y IIRC.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
ktachiya
Posts: 1503
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:54 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:01 pm

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 15):
A B767 is a perfect horse for 6 to 7 hrs of flight. More than this is a nightmare from the pax point of view in terms of comfort, etc

Please talk to AC, they are the real nightmare when it comes to Trans-Pacific B767 ops.

YYZ-NRT B767 (sometimes during low season, that has got to be the longest B767 route)
YVR-NRT B767 (I think they are doing this at slow months)
YVR-PEK B767 x 2 (from summer)
YVR-PVG B767
YVR-ICN B767
YVR-KIX B767
YVR-NGO (although this hasn't come online for a few years)
YVR-HNL-SYD (this will change to non-stop soon, but YVR-HNL should remain)

And I think they would love to start the new YVR-CAN flight with a B767 if the range permits............ (well impossible)

I think AC is the largest B767 operator across the Pacific, and I hope no airline gets bigger than them, because I think Boeing first designed it as a Trans-Atlantic plane, didn't they?
Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24601
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 38):

YYZ-NRT B767 (sometimes during low season, that has got to be the longest B767 route)

Very close, but MIA-TLV wins that one. 6603mi versus 6415mi.
a.
 
MarioSPlane
Posts: 84
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:45 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 37):
Yes Mario, their set-up will be 2 classes, 36C 180Y IIRC.

Thanks for the info Lipe. If I may bother you again, do you have any idea of what kind of seat those would be ? Anything new or just old RG biz seats ?

Thank you again,

Mario
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting MarioSPlane (Reply 40):
Thanks for the info Lipe. If I may bother you again, do you have any idea of what kind of seat those would be ? Anything new or just old RG biz seats ?

Mario, old seats on both Y and C.


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Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:05 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 38):
Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 15):
A B767 is a perfect horse for 6 to 7 hrs of flight. More than this is a nightmare from the pax point of view in terms of comfort, etc

Please talk to AC, they are the real nightmare when it comes to Trans-Pacific B767 ops.

Really, how so? If they are outfitted with AC's new interior, I don't see how they could be any less comfortable than any other aircraft in the fleet, darn near everyone either gets and aisle or a window, they lines to board and deplane are shorter, i really enjoy flying on the 767. Even on 10 hour delayed FCO-YYZ, I enjoyed the comfort of 767. It might be slightly less quiet than A330, but the line to get on and off is slightly shorter, and I've never been in a middle seat on one.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 4:29 pm

In my view this is a charter flight. Period.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
This is a complete waste without a partner in Frankfurt. They need to return to Miami, New York City, and Madrid, cities where they do not need an alliance partner to fill flights. Frankfurt needs an alliance partner.



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
With such time table, aircraft and no partnership no one destination will be profitable.

100% agree with the above. However, in the case of FRA you certainly need a partner. RG should have tried instead MAD - where O&D is higher than FRA. Even Air China is managing to keep good loads between MAD and GRU. But as Lipe mentioned, RG is resinstating FRA-GIG solely because of the slots.

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 15):
I hate B767´s any series...

The MD-11 is certainly worst!

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 22):
I'm sorry but UA and CO keep very good 767 frames

Agree. Add to the list DL, and PrivateAir with all-C class on the B767! Of the legacy airlines, CO has a very good product in the B767.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 35):
The only way to become profitable is the lack of service between Rio and Europe. FRA can be an interesting option, including the need of Thyssen which is building a huge facility in Rio de Janeiro

RG's FRA-GIG will NOT be profitable. It will be a drain of cash. No executive will allow the company to buy a ticket in a defunct company offering a low service such as RG. I would certainly refure such an itinerary. I cannot picture a Thyssen staff or any other exective flying with RG's B767 FRA-GIG. This will be a very low-yield flight, mainly for the holiday-maker charter-type tourist.

Nowadays very often you have executives refusing TAM tickets - because of its frequent dalays, which now are the rule - so imagine RG and its B767!?!?

Rgs,
 
SAOAP
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 7:09 pm

Gents, just remember one thing: this situation is basically an interim solution so that RG/G3 can secure the slots. There are other 'bizarre' things on the way, but to hold the slots, i.e., a temporary solution while they receive new planes.

Happy Landings!

Marcelo
"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
 
airbazar
Posts: 6954
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 35):
It's a corporate matter now ! Varig will fly 2x daily just not to allow TAM to get the frequencies.

And I hope flying empty planes with a few low yielding passengers on the route will kill RG once and for all. This is ridiculous.
 
C010T3
Posts: 1619
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 43):
RG's FRA-GIG will NOT be profitable. It will be a drain of cash. No executive will allow the company to buy a ticket in a defunct company offering a low service such as RG. I would certainly refure such an itinerary. I cannot picture a Thyssen staff or any other exective flying with RG's B767 FRA-GIG. This will be a very low-yield flight, mainly for the holiday-maker charter-type tourist.

Nowadays very often you have executives refusing TAM tickets - because of its frequent dalays, which now are the rule - so imagine RG and its B767!?!?

FRA-GIG will not be profitable and there is no question about it. But the fact is that RG is bringing more 763, so that someday they will operate on a better schedule. Don't forget about the fact that this is an interim solution and that FRA is a congested airport. RG 8779 leaves FRA at 6:35 am, that is before the traffic becomes very heavy. For sure, they couldn't get slots for later. RG's inflight service is not bad at all. The only problem is really the cabin interior. RG is not frequently delaying its flights. RG was bought by G3, so all arguments about them being defunct don't count anymore. The fares are really low now and that could attract companies, since they are not known for throwing money away. Y is being offered for EUR 740 and C for EUR 2200! I really don't care about IFE. I always travel with my laptop with an ultra-long life battery and my iPod. Many executives do the same. The occupation is so low nowadays that if you're in Business Class, you will probably share a flight attendant with two or three other people. That's almost a personal F/A. If that ain't service, I don't know what it is. Besides what is the problem about travelling in outdated seats anyway? 10 years ago, you thought they were fine. The C seats don't recline as much as many people would like, but that is not a problem when you can ask for 3 or 4 pillows and a blanket and let the F/A know you are goin to coach to get some sleep. There you won't have problems finding an empty seat row, that you can turn into a bed. With Varig you won't face long lines to board or deboard, not to mention check-in. Oh, I don't know if you all know Varig's amazing last minute upgrade. I don't know if exists anymore, but it did until last December. It doesn't matter the fare you have, but at check-in you can ask for it when seats in C are available. With nothing more than 12500 miles from your Smiles, you can upgrade from Y to C. So, Hardi, isn't a bargain to buy a ticket for EUR 740 on Y GIG-FRA-GIG and upgrade to C with 25000 miles which you thought were worthless, enjoy inflight meals on C and sleep on an improvised bed, but fairly comfortable on Y? All that with no lines, no tumult and all the attention from your almost personal F/A?
 
hardiwv
Posts: 4341
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:30 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 46):
Besides what is the problem about travelling in outdated seats anyway?

This explains why RG is flying empty a/c. You can try convince anyone, but the matter is simple: no executive/high yiled pax will fly RG. Companies dont look for fares, but 1) for schedule; and 2) reliability. Ok, G3 bought RG, but they are a long way of fixing RG problems. It will take years until RG builds its reputation again.

In the meanwhile, you can use the empy seats of RG...you can be sure I won't!

Rgs,
 
Glareskin
Posts: 1002
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 pm

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Thu May 24, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
This is a complete waste without a partner in Frankfurt. They need to return to Miami, New York City, and Madrid, cities where they do not need an alliance partner to fill flights. Frankfurt needs an alliance partner.



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 47):
no executive/high yiled pax will fly RG. Companies dont look for fares, but 1) for schedule; and 2) reliability.

All so true! Forget about Varig. Think TAM now. They codeshare with LH so they will be able to make Brazil - FRA profitable. Will be even better if they join Star Alliance.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5050
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: Varig To Resume GIG-FRA Nonstop

Fri May 25, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 43):
RG's FRA-GIG will NOT be profitable. It will be a drain of cash. No executive will allow the company to buy a ticket in a defunct company offering a low service such as RG.

Hardi my comment was about FRA-GIG , not specific to this crazy schedule + 767 case. I forget to be more clear on my statement, so i'm sorry !

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 43):
Nowadays very often you have executives refusing TAM tickets - because of its frequent dalays, which now are the rule - so imagine RG and its B767!?!?

I can say to you that even DL get more respect in the US-Brazil because of JJ delays ! They have an amazing product with their A332, but to maximize result they sacrifice the punctuality.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 45):
And I hope flying empty planes with a few low yielding passengers on the route will kill RG once and for all. This is ridiculous

I'm sorry but if the strategy is to keep the slots, the Gol US$ 1 billion cash can hold it. They keep earning closer to R$ 1 million every day as profit.... one flight will not hurt them. It's their strategy, and we will see very soon Gol and Boeing agreement about a future 777 or 787 order.

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 48):
All so true! Forget about Varig. Think TAM now. They codeshare with LH so they will be able to make Brazil - FRA profitable. Will be even better if they join Star Alliance.

ANAC yesterday announced that 2 weekly frequencies will be oferred, but TAM will fight against a cargo company (i don't know the name yet) that also advise ANAC they want the flights and have aircraft available immediately.

http://www.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/atas/ata220507V2.pdf
(sorry, portuguese only) - Page 2, item 10.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !