lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:31 am

Just curious..How many do we have at this current time? Who flies them and where? Also, what future internationals flights could PDX see in the next 5 years?
 
PDXBJV
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:25 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:34 am

We currently have 4 international flights. Air Canada Jazz to YVR, NW to NRT, LH to FRA and Mexicana to Mexico City and Guadalajara.

I've read other places on this forum that AMS is one that may come about next. Who knows though. I would love to see a flight to LHR or hell even LGW would be fine!
TK787 PDX-BJV direct????
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:37 am

Do you think Horizon will even expand to other Canadian cities out of PDX?
 
doug_or
Posts: 3118
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2000 9:55 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:42 am

http://www.flypdx.com/NonStop/Search.aspx

FRA LH
GDL MX
NRT NW
YVR QX, Jazz

MX should be starting MEX sometime soon, and AS does Puerta Valerta seasonaly now. I thought QX served more than YVR, but I guess that most of the Canadadian flying is out of SEA.
When in doubt, one B pump off
 
flyb
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:39 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 2):
Do you think Horizon will even expand to other Canadian cities out of PDX?

One would hope you would at least see YVR, YYC, YEG soon.
 
jetboy319
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 2:06 am

Air Canada Jazz - Vancouver
Alaska Airlines - Los Cabos, Puerto Vallarta (Seasonal)
Horizon Air - Vancouver
Lufthansa - Frankfurt
Mexicana - Guadalajara, Mexico City
Northwest - Tokyo/Narita

As stated earlier, Amsterdam on KLM or Northwest would be the next likely city with some saying an announcement should come in '08. I personally would rather have Virgin Atlantic to London but that's just me.  Smile Cheers!
 
Indio66
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:22 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 2:49 am

I rembember when DL had a bunch of MD-11 flights to Japan out of PDX.

Someone told me that they used to call the airport "DePortland" because the immigration folks were so tough.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 5:43 am

Does Alaska plan to continue the seasonal flights to Mexico later this year out of PDX?
 
BlatantEcho
Posts: 1815
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:11 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 5:46 am

the AMS rumor mill is alive and kicking....I also think LHR makes more sense, but connections on KLM/NW can not be denied
They're not handing trophies out today
 
ayubogg
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:56 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 12:46 pm

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 5):
Air Canada Jazz - Vancouver
Alaska Airlines - Los Cabos, Puerto Vallarta (Seasonal)
Horizon Air - Vancouver
Lufthansa - Frankfurt
Mexicana - Guadalajara, Mexico City
Northwest - Tokyo/Narita

I hear MX will begin non stop service to MEX around June 3rd. This is great because for me the GDL stop was kind of a hassle everytime I flew that flight. I would love to see another Europe flight. LHR would be the obvious choice but AMS would be awesome since a KLM 744 in PDX would be quite the sight! SEA makes this harder for us here though. I heard that back in the day there were 747's in PDX for Asia flights but I'm not sure if this is just a rumor or if it is true. I guess another Asia flight would really put PDX in the west coast airport map.
Alba gu bràth
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 9):
AMS would be awesome since a KLM 744 in PDX

More likely an A330 or a 767/777.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 1:48 pm

IQuoting Ayubogg (Reply 9):
AMS would be awesome since a KLM 744 in PDX

More likely an A330 or a 767/777.

I absolutely agree......For international routes to Asia or Europe, a 744 would definitely be to much capacity out of Portland at this point..However that could change in the years to come..........I could see KLM use an A330 on this route if it ever begins..
 
ayubogg
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:56 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Thu May 24, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 11):
I absolutely agree......For international routes to Asia or Europe, a 744 would definitely be to much capacity out of Portland at this point..However that could change in the years to come..........I could see KLM use an A330 on this route if it ever begins..

Perhaps so but I think a KLM 747 could be possible in the future seeing as KLM flies to places like MEX with their 747's and from what I understand the Mexican-Dutch market isn't that constant (compared to BA, IB, LH, and AF who are the other European carriers that fly into MEX and they DO have a market for those nations). Yes, A330's could be KLM's initial fleet to PDX but we don't even know for sure if the route will ever operate... sigh
Alba gu bràth
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 11):
I absolutely agree......For international routes to Asia or Europe, a 744 would definitely be to much capacity out of Portland at this point..However that could change in the years to come..........I could see KLM use an A330 on this route if it ever begins..

If AMS is added it will be serviced by NW. I heard from a very reliable source that AMS has been on the table at NW for a while now. It is pretty much a done deal to be announced in '08.
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 13):
If AMS is added it will be serviced by NW. I heard from a very reliable source that AMS has been on the table at NW for a while now. It is pretty much a done deal to be announced in '08.

In that case...Get ready for another A330... Sad Maybe a 787 when those come online.

What about the rumor that LH is thinking of upgrade the A340-300 to something bigger??
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 14):
What about the rumor that LH is thinking of upgrade the A340-300 to something bigger??

I know they have or are going to change this to Daily 365 days a year. A 744 would be nice to see in the summer!  Wink
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 5:10 am

Actually it's 5 days a week during the winter and daily during the Spring, Summer, and fall.............
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 5:12 am

PDX needs a flight to Russia,..We have a huge Russian population in the state of Oregon......
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 17):
PDX needs a flight to Russia,..We have a huge Russian population in the state of Oregon......

And how many of them can afford plane tickets home to visit??

Down in my area, all the Russian families are typically pretty cash strapped...
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 17):
We have a huge Russian population in the state of Oregon......

What is huge?

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 9):
I heard that back in the day there were 747's in PDX for Asia flights but I'm not sure if this is just a rumor or if it is true.

Yes, it is true, United operated the 747-200 into Portland when they first received authorization to serve NRT, the service was split with Seattle, and both flights originated in Chicago. But 747s did operate nonstop from PDX to Asia, it is not a rumor.

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 9):
I guess another Asia flight would really put PDX in the west coast airport map.

If it happens, it will probably be to Korea.
Delete this User
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 4:01 pm

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 18):
Down in my area, all the Russian families are typically pretty cash strapped...

The Russians here seem to have plenty of money from what I've seen living here.
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 4:05 pm

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 12):

Perhaps so but I think a KLM 747 could be possible in the future seeing as KLM flies to places like MEX with their 747's and from what I understand the Mexican-Dutch market isn't that constant (compared to BA, IB, LH, and AF who are the other European carriers that fly into MEX and they DO have a market for those nations).

Mexico City is one of the largest cities in the world...Portland's a little ways further down that list. Keep in mind that the Mexico-Holland market probably doesn't give KL as much feed on that route as Mexico-Europe does via connections.

AMS-PDX? Yes, probably sooner than later. KL 744? No.

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 17):
PDX needs a flight to Russia,..We have a huge Russian population in the state of Oregon......

Same can be said of Seattle, and we couldn't support service even a few times a week. Not happening.

I like Portland a lot, but some of you PDXers have some pretty strange ideas about what international service is feasible from your neighborhood...the service there is pretty comparable with other non-hub markets of the same size, and while the area is growing, it has some pretty big west coast markets to compete with for new service. I'd put money on NW to AMS and __ to ICN in the next 5-7 years, but not much else.
 
FlyPeoria
Posts: 426
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:30 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Fri May 25, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 9):
I heard that back in the day there were 747's in PDX for Asia flights but I'm not sure if this is just a rumor or if it is true.

Didn't Pan Am use 747's at PDX from the early 1970's until the Pacific routes were sold to UA?
 
S12PPL
Posts: 3603
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:26 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 20):
The Russians here seem to have plenty of money from what I've seen living here.

Well, that's probably why they're more cash strapped down my way. Housing is cheaper.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 21):
like Portland a lot, but some of you PDXers have some pretty strange ideas about what international service is feasible from your neighborhood...the service there is pretty comparable with other non-hub markets of the same size, and while the area is growing, it has some pretty big west coast markets to compete with for new service. I'd put money on NW to AMS and __ to ICN in the next 5-7 years, but not much else.

No offense...But the recent growth out of PDX would seem to say otherwise. PDX has grown a lot in the last year. I wouldn't put it past other airlines to explore the market. Don't forget that PDX was once a large Asian gateway...And is set up to be again, I think. The Asian population up here would fill the demand, as well as the business need. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that PDX could see some pretty significant international growth in the near future.
Next Flights: 12/31 AS804 PDX-MCO 2/3 AS19 MCO-SEA QX2545 SEA-PDX
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 5:02 am

With the Robust growth at PDX I also hope to see more domestic flights in the years to come..................
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 17):
PDX needs a flight to Russia,..We have a huge Russian population in the state of Oregon......

That won't be happening. What some people don't realize is that a lot of Russians don't have a lingering desire to return to their homeland (and I mean at any point).

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 23):
on't forget that PDX was once a large Asian gateway...And is set up to be again, I think.

What airline would use it as a gateway?

-Delta tried it and is focused on Europe/JFK
-American and Continental....no chance
-Northwest has Detroit
-United has San Francisco/O'Hare.

As you can see, there's nobody to fly it. In addition, Portland already has Narita, which is plenty for an area of 2 million people.

The best way to judge how an airport is doing service wise is to look at your closest competitors. In this case, it's St. Louis and San Jose. I would say that from an international standpoint, it's doing excellent.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18831
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 22):
Didn't Pan Am use 747's at PDX from the early 1970's until the Pacific routes were sold to UA?

As I recall, Pan Am never operated transpacific services from PDX, apart from PDX-HNL. I flew a PA 707 HNL-PDX-SEA in 1970. I think it stopped in PDX about 3 days a week and was nonstop to SEA the other days.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 21):
Perhaps so but I think a KLM 747 could be possible in the future seeing as KLM flies to places like MEX with their 747's and from what I understand the Mexican-Dutch market isn't that constant (compared to BA, IB, LH, and AF who are the other European carriers that fly into MEX and they DO have a market for those nations).

Mexico City is one of the largest cities in the world...Portland's a little ways further down that list. Keep in mind that the Mexico-Holland market probably doesn't give KL as much feed on that route as Mexico-Europe does via connections.

And don't forget that all except 5 KL 744s are combis with cargo in the rear of the main deck and only 288 seats, 42 J and 246 Y if not mistaken. As far as I know AMS-MEX almost always uses the 744 combi.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 5):
As stated earlier, Amsterdam on KLM or Northwest would be the next likely city with some saying an announcement should come in '08.



Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 8):
the AMS rumor mill is alive and kicking....I also think LHR makes more sense, but connections on KLM/NW can not be denied



Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 9):
would love to see another Europe flight. LHR would be the obvious choice but AMS would be awesome since a KLM 744 in PDX would be quite the sight!



Quoting LHPDX (Reply 11):
could see KLM use an A330 on this route if it ever begins..



Quoting Ayubogg (Reply 12):
Perhaps so but I think a KLM 747 could be possible in the future seeing as KLM flies to places like MEX with their 747's and from what I understand the Mexican-Dutch market isn't that constant



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 13):
If AMS is added it will be serviced by NW. I heard from a very reliable source that AMS has been on the table at NW for a while now. It is pretty much a done deal to be announced in '08

Its very very strange that no one seems to know anything about this PDX-AMS nonstop except for a.net members......sorry to say, but this rumor has taken on a life of its own. That the long discussed SEA-CDG nonstop will finally be launched by AF is the big news that KL/AF has for the Pacific Northwest.......its my understanding that KL/NW determined that any PDX-Europe flight would impact the long standing SEA-AMS and newly launched SEA-CDG flights and PDX was deemed a non-starter. LH has done better than many expected on its PDX-FRA route, but note that LH does not serve closeby SEA. I would like to be proven wrong on this one....a connection between PDX and AMS would be very nice addition, but there are likely better opportunities elsewhere at other US and worldwide cities.

And, KL does quite well with its AMS-MEX service.....the demand to and from MEX really cannot be compared with PDX.
 
flashmeister
Posts: 2671
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 25):
The best way to judge how an airport is doing service wise is to look at your closest competitors. In this case, it's St. Louis and San Jose. I would say that from an international standpoint, it's doing excellent.

I disagree that San Jose would be a valid comparison. Driving from San Jose to SFO to catch an international flight is far easier than a Portlander driving to SEA. I'm not sure how STL is similar to PDX, but I'll take your word for it.

I DO agree, however, with folks here who point out that PDX is pretty fortunate to have what we do: nonstop service to Asia and Europe both, not to mention Canada/Mexico. Consider DEN for a moment: Europe, yes. Asia, no. None of SLC, AUS, SAT have nonstops to either Europe or Asia.

Our prior history as an Asian gateway had much more to do with the capabilities of the L-1011 and MD-11 than local traffic generated by our market... and even that wasn't sustainable without more domestic connectivity. Delta had some, but not enough to make it really worth it.

I'd be excited about seeing AMS start up if LH's FRA service keeps doing well. I think that we're very fortunate to have what we do here in PDX... but we need to keep it in perspective.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 23):
The Asian population up here would fill the demand

The asian population in the PDX area is about 110,000. This is not enough to support the previous DL flights by O&D alone...

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 23):
But the recent growth out of PDX would seem to say otherwise. PDX has grown a lot in the last year

There has not been a flight to Europe or Asia added in the last year. I guess you can include the Mexicana flight to MEX but most of the growth has been domestically.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):
And, KL does quite well with its AMS-MEX service.....the demand to and from MEX really cannot be compared with PDX.

 checkmark  Comparing an area of 20 million to an area of 2 million is comparing apples to oranges...
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 8:02 am

EvA..fine ..PDX cannot support anything then, maybe the existing airlines should just leave town........Are you happy now?
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18831
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 29):
Comparing an area of 20 million to an area of 2 million is comparing apples to oranges...

True, but considering the economic disparities and average salaries in MEX and PDX, the number of people in each city who can afford air travel may be very similar. Obviously that only relates to outbound travel, not inbound.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 30):
EvA..fine ..PDX cannot support anything then, maybe the existing airlines should just leave town........Are you happy now?

What a mature comment. Portland has a good amount of international service for a city its size, is that hard to understand? Being so close to SEA and not being a hub city does limit the number of international flights that will be operated out of PDX......should KL/NW or another carrier launch an additional PDX-Europe flight, it could impact the loads, yeilds and profitability of the current LH flight and jeopardize that service......and that would be a real shame.
 
lhpdx
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 8:39 am

Dude I was being sarcastic...For some reason on this site if you mention anything about Portland, the responses are mostly negative....However, I really like the way you put it..I would rather see Portland maintain existing international service before adding new ones as the result of jeapardizing existing ones.......
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 33):
Dude I was being sarcastic...

Someone with a sense of humor at a.net is indeed rare..........cheers.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 9:37 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
As I recall, Pan Am never operated transpacific services from PDX, apart from PDX-HNL. I flew a PA 707 HNL-PDX-SEA in 1970. I think it stopped in PDX about 3 days a week and was nonstop to SEA the other days.

I believe that 707 continued on its way for London...HNL-PDX-SEA-LHR.
Later, in PA's life at PDX, there were only two 727 flights a day to make connections to SEA-HNL and SEA-LHR.
Total waste of an aircraft...about 4 hours a day.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):
Its very very strange that no one seems to know anything about this PDX-AMS nonstop except for a.net members......

Well you know what happens, if something is said over and over again enough times...it will eventually be accepted as the truth....that is how much of history is written.

I am a huge supporter of PDX and the city of Portland, It is one of most favorite cities in the WORLD, but let me make this perfectly clear, ANY MORE EUROPEAN SERVICE....be it BA or AF or NW or KL would be a complete disaster!

The market from Portland to Europe is finite, just because another airline sets up shop, does not mean the market grows...unless we are talking about a discount operator such as an LTU, Globespan, Icelandic, etc, that would develop the soft, cheap underbelly of the market, but that is still slicing away at the profitability and longevity of the service Portland really needs: The Daily LH nonstop to Frankfurt.
Would a flight to London be better?
Probably.
But Lufthansa came to the dance first.

Any new European service will only dilute and divide the market, making no ones service successful.

Please stop wishing for another flight to Europe....it can only bring pain in the long run. Right now the Metro population is a shade over 2 million....wait until that number reaches 3 and a half, 4 million, then we can talk about more.

Quoting LHPDX (Reply 30):
EvA..fine ..PDX cannot support anything then, maybe the existing airlines should just leave town........Are you happy now?

?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
Portland has a good amount of international service for a city its size

Really, considering its proximity to a metro twice as large to the north, Portland is VERY lucky to have what it does.

Forget the Delta days, they are over, but support what you have Portland.

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 29):
The asian population in the PDX area is about 110,000.

Are you referring to speakers, or heritage?

I have about 70,000, Speakers, does not take into consideration younger generations most likely do not speak the mother-tongue.
The most, in order, (But only the largest, rounded, too many to list really)
Vietnamese - 18,000
Chinese - 13,000
Japanese - 10,000
Korean - 9,000
Tagalog - 6,000
Laotian - 3,000
Cambodian - 2,900
Hmong - 1,600
Thai - 1,300
Cantonese - 1,200
Other Asian - 4,000

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 25):
What some people don't realize is that a lot of Russians don't have a lingering desire to return to their homeland (and I mean at any point).

B-I-N-G-O.
What is there to return to!?....Oregon compared to much of the industrialized former Soviet Union is the closest thing to
heaven on Earth...

In the State of Oregon, here are those "HUGE" Russian numbers. (And associated Languages)

Russian - 17,000
Ukrainian - 4,500
Armenian - 300
Estonian - 200
Lithuanian - 60
Bielorussian - 30

Or about 21,000 persons, about 6 tenths of a percent of the total population of the State. (3,197,000)
Delete this User
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
I believe that 707 continued on its way for London...HNL-PDX-SEA-LHR.

Oh my, I do remember that flight as well.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):


Interesting post. thanks.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
Are you referring to speakers, or heritage?

I have about 70,000, Speakers, does not take into consideration younger generations most likely do not speak the mother-tongue.
The most, in order, (But only the largest, rounded, too many to list really)
Vietnamese - 18,000
Chinese - 13,000
Japanese - 10,000
Korean - 9,000
Tagalog - 6,000
Laotian - 3,000
Cambodian - 2,900
Hmong - 1,600
Thai - 1,300
Cantonese - 1,200
Other Asian - 4,000

I got it from the 2005 American Community Survey data for the Portland MSA. http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...ang=en&-_caller=geoselect&-format=
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
Would a flight to London be better?
Probably.

 checkmark  BA most likely. Maybe VS or BMI, but probably BA. One day.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
But Lufthansa came to the dance first.

And they'll do what it takes to stay in that dance...stag. All they have to do is upgrade it to daily year round (demand based) and also upgrade (slightly) to an A346. I might add that they could sweeten the codeshare deal with UA and US on that route only, so that anyone starting in PDX going to Europe and beyond is on that LH flight, and not going through PHL or ORD or wherever. In other words, give UA and US enough of a $ incentive to route their customers on LH rather than making them connect elsewhere. If you think LH is going to sit back and let KL step in and try their luck between PDX and Europe, guess again.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 22):
Didn't Pan Am use 747's at PDX from the early 1970's until the Pacific routes were sold to UA?

Well, UA started flights to NRT in 1983, the "Royal Pacific Service". They picked up those on their own, and was 3 years before the PA acquisition.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 19):
Yes, it is true, United operated the 747-200 into Portland when they first received authorization to serve NRT, the service was split with Seattle, and both flights originated in Chicago. But 747s did operate nonstop from PDX to Asia, it is not a rumor.

Tuesdays and Thursdays. The rest was via SEA.
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting N174UA (Reply 38):
Tuesdays and Thursdays. The rest was via SEA.

My very first photo as spotter, taken from Marine Drive, was of both the east and westbound 747s sitting together over there at what is now Concourse E. Next to them was a DC10 I would assume was bound for Denver.

I was not around in PDX when the 5 Delta L-1011s or MD-11s would be on the ground at once....must have been a great sight to see....but that is pure nostalgia, and I'd like to think things in Portland are much better today than they were then...

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 36):
Interesting post. thanks.

And thank you.

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 37):
I got it from the 2005 American Community Survey data for the Portland MSA.

I will check that site out.

FYI, here is the source for my information: http://www.mla.org/map_main

The site allows one to manipulate the data into many different graphs and maps. I especially like the map feature, you can look at the data by either zipcode or county.....for any language that appeared in the 2000 census/05 estimate.

For example, you can see exactly where in Oregon "All" these Russians reside.... Wink

It just so happens to be north of Salem and Southeast Portland!

Zipcodes 97233, 97236, 97266, and 97071 in Oregon, and across the river, 98661 and 98682 in Vancouver, Clark County, Washington.

I use this site frequently for work....AND to dispel the Many A.Net myths that "MyTown U.S.A." has a "HUGE" population of "Bongonongolesian" speakers...."So why isn't there a nonstop flight to Bongonongoland!?"
Delete this User
 
jetboy319
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
Really, considering its proximity to a metro twice as large to the north, Portland is VERY lucky to have what it does

Not quite TWICE the size.... According to the US Census Bureau website the estimated population of the Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue MSA in July 2006 was 3,263,497. The estimated population of the Portland-Vancouver MSA in July 2006 was 2,137,565. Judging by those number I would say Seattle is equally lucky to have the number of International flights they do too  Wink

Quoting Stirling (Reply 35):
The market from Portland to Europe is finite, just because another airline sets up shop, does not mean the market grows...unless we are talking about a discount operator such as an LTU, Globespan, Icelandic, etc, that would develop the soft, cheap underbelly of the market, but that is still slicing away at the profitability and longevity of the service Portland really needs: The Daily LH nonstop to Frankfurt.
Would a flight to London be better? Probably. But Lufthansa came to the dance first.

Well spoken. I agree fully. Cheers  Smile
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 40):
Not quite TWICE the size.... According to the US Census Bureau website the estimated population of the Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue MSA in July 2006 was 3,263,497. The estimated population of the Portland-Vancouver MSA in July 2006 was 2,137,565. Judging by those number I would say Seattle is equally lucky to have the number of International flights they do too

He was referring to the Seattle CSA which is infact about 4 million people.
 
jetboy319
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 1:40 pm

Quoting EVA777SEA (Reply 41):
He was referring to the Seattle CSA which is infact about 4 million people

You are correct, the estimated 06' CSA for the Seattle area is indeed 3,806,453. I can't find the CSA numbers for Portland. I would be interested to know what the difference is betweent the Portland MSA and CSA.

Cheers
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):
Its very very strange that no one seems to know anything about this PDX-AMS nonstop except for a.net members......sorry to say, but this rumor has taken on a life of its own.

I've heard it on the employee bus at work. And it was referred to as a NW flight, not KLM.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 27):
And, KL does quite well with its AMS-MEX service.....the demand to and from MEX really cannot be compared with PDX.

That's an O&D argument. PDX has a good amount of Skyteam feed in any case.

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 40):
Not quite TWICE the size.... According to the US Census Bureau website the estimated population of the Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue MSA in July 2006 was 3,263,497. The estimated population of the Portland-Vancouver MSA in July 2006 was 2,137,565. Judging by those number I would say Seattle is equally lucky to have the number of International flights they do too

Meh. Catchment area is what's important. PDX is, as I see it, more of a diluted market than SEA in terms of population and where they fly from. SEA serves a lot more than just Seattle/Tacoma/Bellevue - it's more like everything from Centralia to Bellingham. There simply aren't any other options in that whole region. Spokane has limited options, and it's catchment area covers a much less densely populated section of the state.
Oregon on the other hand has Eugene at the southern end of the Willamette Valley, the population center of the state. Salem is between the two, and is about to further dilute the market (or has it already? I'm not sure of the date). Throw in Medford to the south, Bend in the middle, and Boise to the east. Oregon, while it has a smaller population than Washington, is served by more airports with multi-carrier service to non-Pacific Northwest hubs.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 42):
You are correct, the estimated 06' CSA for the Seattle area is indeed 3,806,453. I can't find the CSA numbers for Portland. I would be interested to know what the difference is betweent the Portland MSA and CSA.

That is because there is no Portland CSA. I believe that there used to be a Portland CSA that had Salem in it but I guess the census folks got rid of it...
 
N174UA
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:17 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting Stirling (Reply 39):
My very first photo as spotter, taken from Marine Drive, was of both the east and westbound 747s sitting together over there at what is now Concourse E. Next to them was a DC10 I would assume was bound for Denver.

Happy days. Sadly, gone forever. I remember many a time riding a DC-8 or DC-10 between PDX and ORD/DEN, and even SFO....Flight 183 went PDX-SFO-HNL, and then #184 was HNL-SFO-PDX. That was in the mid-80's. And Flight #33 and #34 was a DC-8 that went PDX-SEA-HNL and back again. I'll never forget what a dump PDX was in June '84 when I moved there after my Dad was xferred to PDX with UA. Gate 43, 45, 47, etc. There was another section of gates, near where E1 is now, where the DC-10 was parked. Damn, that DC-10 was a fine airplane!

Quoting Stirling (Reply 39):
For example, you can see exactly where in Oregon "All" these Russians reside....

It just so happens to be north of Salem and Southeast Portland!

Yep. Aurora is a big Russian conclave. That whole area. Nice folks, really.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 39):
MyTown U.S.A." has a "HUGE" population of "Bongonongolesian" speakers...."So why isn't there a nonstop flight to Bongonongoland!?"

There was an '80s band called "Oingo Boingo".....maybe the Bongnongolesian folks listen to them?  Smile
 
jetboy319
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sat May 26, 2007 2:52 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
Catchment area is what's important

Lets look at the PDX Catchment Area. According to the PDX 2000 Master Plan, the PDX Catchment Area consists of the following Washington State Counties: Clark (403,500), Cowlitz (96,800), Kilckitat (19,800), Lewis (72,900), Pacific (21,500), Skamania (10,600), and Wahiakum (3,900).
It Also includes the following Oregon State Counties: Benton (79,061), Clackamas (374,230), Clatsop (37,315), Columbia (49,163), Hood River (21,533), Jefferson (20,352), Lincoln (46,199), Linn (111,489), Marion (311,304), Multnomah (681,454), Polk (73,296), Tillamook (25,380), Washington (514,269), Wasco (23,712) and Yamhill (94,678).

Altogether that makes the PDX Catchment Area 3,092,435.
 
eva777sea
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:16 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sun May 27, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Jetboy319 (Reply 46):
Lets look at the PDX Catchment Area. According to the PDX 2000 Master Plan, the PDX Catchment Area consists of the following Washington State Counties: Clark (403,500), Cowlitz (96,800), Kilckitat (19,800), Lewis (72,900), Pacific (21,500), Skamania (10,600), and Wahiakum (3,900).
It Also includes the following Oregon State Counties: Benton (79,061), Clackamas (374,230), Clatsop (37,315), Columbia (49,163), Hood River (21,533), Jefferson (20,352), Lincoln (46,199), Linn (111,489), Marion (311,304), Multnomah (681,454), Polk (73,296), Tillamook (25,380), Washington (514,269), Wasco (23,712) and Yamhill (94,678).

Altogether that makes the PDX Catchment Area 3,092,435.

Now take pretty much the whole state of Washington and you have SEA's catchment area... Probably close to 6 million.
 
FlyPeoria
Posts: 426
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:30 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sun May 27, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 26):
Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 22):
Didn't Pan Am use 747's at PDX from the early 1970's until the Pacific routes were sold to UA?

As I recall, Pan Am never operated transpacific services from PDX, apart from PDX-HNL. I flew a PA 707 HNL-PDX-SEA in 1970. I think it stopped in PDX about 3 days a week and was nonstop to SEA the other days.

The reason I asked is because there's a photo in a 1980 book called "Airports of the World", by John Stroud, that shows a Pan Am 747 at end of one of PDX's concourses. Maybe it was a charter? Or it was operating the PDX-HNL route.

Quoting N174UA (Reply 38):
Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 22):
Didn't Pan Am use 747's at PDX from the early 1970's until the Pacific routes were sold to UA?

Well, UA started flights to NRT in 1983, the "Royal Pacific Service". They picked up those on their own, and was 3 years before the PA acquisition.

That was SEA-NRT wasn't it? UA acquired PA's Pacific routes in 1985.
 
ayubogg
Posts: 177
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:56 am

RE: PDX And International Flights

Sun May 27, 2007 2:18 am

I really enjoy this thread but we should try and shift it back to PDX and its International service instead of so much talk on census and what not. Sure it's relevant to the subject but I think we are moving away from the subject just slightly. I'm not a forum moderator so don't take my word for it but that's my opinion because over time I've grown fond of this thread.
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