DIA
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Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Thu May 24, 2007 11:40 pm

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23912_5552280,00.html

Apparently, Air China is the most likely carrier to start the service. This open skies agreement has certainly changed the playing field...


"Airport officials said Air China is the best candidate to add nonstop flights from Denver because the carrier is set to become a member of the Star Alliance group of airlines. Alliance partners share frequent-flier benefits and can offer passengers connections on one another's flights. That will allow Air China to offer connecting flights in the U.S. on United Airlines, which has its second-largest hub in Denver. United also has expressed strong interest in starting a flight from Denver to Japan and might consider China as well."

-RMN

*Edited for quote insert...

[Edited 2007-05-24 16:42:18]
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AirCop
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Thu May 24, 2007 11:45 pm

Air China in Denver? I would be shocked if this happens...
 
clrd4t8koff
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Thu May 24, 2007 11:49 pm

What years did Korean operate to DEN and was it daily with the 744? Has any other Asian carriers (JAL) operated there??
 
DIA
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Thu May 24, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Clrd4t8koff (Reply 2):
What years did Korean operate to DEN and was it daily with the 744? Has any other Asian carriers (JAL) operated there??

The service was actually a direct flight to/from LAX. with a combi-744.
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jimyvr
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 12:02 am

Makes sense, consider Denver is a Star hub.
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DIA
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 12:26 am

I would think Air China would utilize a 772 on this route, if started. Don' they have some on order still?
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as739x
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 3):

Also, at the end it was a 777 via San Francisco

ASSFO
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flyorski
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 12:45 am

Great news for Air China and DIA. This is not what I expected though.
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:00 am

Yeah, and JAL is the best candidate to start nonstop service from NRT to SLC, but just like China-DEN, it ain't gonna happen (under current and foreseeable market conditions).

At best, this article is highly speculative.
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:22 am

I know for a fact that Denver officials just made a trip over to Japan and China to meet with airlines, but what the RMN story fails to point out is that the Chinese carriers currently are not utilizing all of their available frequencies. Therefore, the new deal doesn't necessarily mean that Air China flights to Denver are more likely as a result. However, it does put more pressure on the Chinese carriers to play catch up with service to the U.S., so it may move things along. I have to believe that China flights to Denver are still at least a couple of years away.
 
DIA
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 8):
Yeah, and JAL is the best candidate to start nonstop service from NRT to SLC, but just like China-DEN, it ain't gonna happen (under current and foreseeable market conditions).

At best, this article is highly speculative.

It has been for years...taken with a grain of salt. I would tend to think with all the latest factors in the industry, this is a viable route...even the NRT- DEN route as well. Also, I think ANA or UAL are the likely candidates to start the NRT-DEN service.

And, in time, I most certainly think it is gonna happen.
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jimyvr
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:28 am

I wonder the chances of Air China starting new service to North America since all of their US/Canada route are not making money, and the year of 2007 sees them laying out a goal trying to reverse the situation.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 8):

At best, this article is highly speculative.

Indeed... this one's up there with that article about BNA gunning for a nonstop to NRT  Wink
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FLYGUY767
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 1):
Air China in Denver?

This seems a little speculative. There has been talk of NH in Denver for years, as has there been talk of UAL operating Denver to Narita. Take it with a grain of salt. Odds of Air China flying to Denver are slim to none. Odds of Air China making Denver-China long term, nonstop are even slimer.

Quoting DIA (Reply 3):
The service was actually a direct flight to/from LAX. with a combi-744.



Quoting AS739X (Reply 6):
Also, at the end it was a 777 via San Francisco

The Denver to Seoul service started with a 747-400 Seoul-San Francisco-Denver, and then a 777 Seoul-San Francisco-Denver. In addition the Seoul-Los Angeles-Dallas started with a 747-400, and then a 777. Now Korean has dropped Denver, and only retains Dallas. Dallas, now being served nonstop with the 777-200, and on rare events 747-400. Perhaps I am wrong on all of the above. Does anyone have a link to a definitive answer to the above?

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 8):
Yeah, and JAL is the best candidate to start nonstop service from NRT to SLC, but just like China-DEN, it ain't gonna happen (under current and foreseeable market conditions).

JAL from NRT to SLC? I am likely to think that is not going to happen in this lifetime. With JAL in OneWorld, arent there heavy discussions that JAL is more likely to serve MIA, and BOS? In addition isnt NH the one that is rumored to service DEN from NRT due to Star Alliace? Also werent JAL and NH both looking at SEA when the 787 comes online?


-JD
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AADC10
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 1:59 am

DEN seems like a long way off since Air China only this year was able to operate a fat route like SFO-PEK daily They still do not operate LAX-PEK daily and they are the only one with a non-stop.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
Indeed... this one's up there with that article about BNA gunning for a nonstop to NRT

Well it wouldnt be quite that bad, DEN is a Star Alliance hub. The only problem is that there is minimal-nil local traffic from DEN. Chinese airlines tend to go where there is local traffic. This is why you see alot of Chinese carriers at LAX. Thats the largest market in the US for O&D to China. I would think it more likely for UA to fly DEN-PEK. But first UA needs to fly DEN-NRT.
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dia77
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 13):
The Denver to Seoul service started with a 747-400 Seoul-San Francisco-Denver, and then a 777 Seoul-San Francisco-Denver.

DEN was always operated with a 744 Combi. The route started Seoul-San Francisco-Denver and later moved to Seoul-Los Angeles-Denver. The route didn't do so well because it wasn't nonstop and didn't provide much of an advantage over UA. Denver and Boston were started at the same time by KE, but both were dropped.


I highly doubt that Air China will start service to Denver any time soon. If anything, ANA will start DEN-NRT in the next couple of years. UA does not have interest in DEN-NRT according to a friend of mine in network planning.
 
EddieDude
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 2:58 am

A stop en route would be required right? At least until Air China can send 788s to DEN, no?
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jimyvr
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 16):
UA does not have interest in DEN-NRT according to a friend of mine in network planning.

While the CEO sees a possibility in the future.
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Qantas744er
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 5):
I would think Air China would utilize a 772 on this route, if started. Don' they have some on order still?

They could but it would not be non-stop cause they have 772A's which do not have the range for a non-stop PEK-DEN flight..

They used the 772A on PEK-MUC-PEK and going west was pretty bad some times.. the flight is now on a 762ER

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RDUDDJI
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 10):
It has been for years...taken with a grain of salt. I would tend to think with all the latest factors in the industry, this is a viable route...even the NRT- DEN route as well. Also, I think ANA or UAL are the likely candidates to start the NRT-DEN service.

I agree with you. DEN-NRT is viable at some point in the next few years, China however, is not.
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dia77
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 18):
While the CEO sees a possibility in the future.

My friend at UA network planning said that Tilton presented the DEN-NRT option during is speech in DC as a way to build social capital in Denver. He said that they have run dozens of NPV analysis on DEN-NRT and feel that aircraft can be utilized better on other routes (primarly due to the cannibalization factor that DEN-NRT would have on SFO-NRT). While DEN-NRT would be a profitable route, UA would not want to fly it at the cost of affecting existing routes.
 
B2443
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:36 am

Again, this is from DEN official speculating...some UA flights would be codeshared with Air China for sure but PEK-DEN nonstop? CA can not even make money on the lucrative LAX/SFO/JFK markets and it'd anticipate UA feed at DEN to PEK? They'd be better off doing PEK-ORD or go double daily on PEK-LAX.
 
B2443
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 14):
DEN seems like a long way off since Air China only this year was able to operate a fat route like SFO-PEK daily They still do not operate LAX-PEK daily and they are the only one with a non-stop.

They do daily non-stop now on PEK-LAX/SFO/JFK.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 21):
(primarly due to the cannibalization factor that DEN-NRT would have on SFO-NRT).

How would it cannibalize? SFO-NRT is a very robust O/D market as is SFO-KIX, SFO-NGO. One would think that SEA-NRT would be the route in danger of cannibalization if DEN-NRT ever comes into play.


-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
dia77
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 24):
How would it cannibalize? SFO-NRT is a very robust O/D market as is SFO-KIX, SFO-NGO. One would think that SEA-NRT would be the route in danger of cannibalization if DEN-NRT ever comes into play.

While SFO is a huge O/D market in its own right, there are more than enough daily flights to support it. UA uses SFO as its primary trans-pacific hub and if traffic were routed through DEN, then there would be an obvious drop in filled seats from SFO (i.e. if you are adding capacity to NRT and routing it through a substitute hub (DEN in this case) , there will be a subsequent drop in traffic from SFO). DEN-NRT would most likely be profitable, but when you are assessing your options, you go with the routes that have a higher NPV. On the other hand, ANA might have much better luck in serving DEN.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting DIA77 (Reply 25):
On the other hand, ANA might have much better luck in serving DEN.

That is a very well put assertion. We can almost assume without contest that NH will open DEN-NRT or KIX with a 787 as soon as they come online.


-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Lexy
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
this one's up there with that article about BNA gunning for a nonstop to NRT

That was actually Nissan Executives looking for a flight not KBNA or MNAA officals. Let's get the facts straight here people.

[Edited 2007-05-25 02:48:34]
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stirling
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 10:28 am

This article was filled with a quite a few "Coulds", Woulds", "Shoulds", "Possibilities"; very passive, non-committal language. A business editor for the RMN looking for some space to fill.

These frequencies I am going to venture to say are going to add seats in existing markets that already have service, LAX, SFO, ORD, JFK for example.

As much as I'd like a little variety at DEN, as the article states at the end, nonstop service from Denver to the Far East is still far off.
Japan needs to come first. Hello ANA?
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LHboyatDTW
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 11:05 am

Air China can come to DEN....... as long as they know how to get to the gate  duck 

(I just had to throw that in Big grin)

Though NRT has a better chance. Same thing goes with CDG.
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worldtraveler
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 24):
How would it cannibalize?

because UA controls traffic to Japan from the western US... there is no incentive for them to take a risk on a route when it won't bring them anything they don't already have.

as for China, UA could choose to codeshare and even revenue share on routes to China using Air China to help maximize its access to China but, again, it doesn't need to unless someone else poses a threat to UA's dominant position in the market. And based on the current treaty, there is no threat anywhere in sight.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 2:41 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 4):
Makes sense, consider Denver is a Star hub.

Actually, it doesn't. Would you fly DEN-DXB just because "Denver is a Star hub"? No, the route has to make sense from an NPV standpoint. Certainly being a star hub helps but it doesn't mean a route is guranteed to be profitable. DEN is UA's smallest hub from a local O&D standpoint after all.
 
kbdude
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RE: Air China - Likely To Start Service To DEN

Fri May 25, 2007 8:59 pm

on a slightly related topic...

When is Air China's formal entry into Star? I know Shanghai Airlines entry date is on DEC 2007. How about TK entry date?