TruemanQLD
Topic Author
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New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Fri May 25, 2007 5:55 pm

QANTAS is looking to expand, as we all know with the 787 and A380 there will be alot more 744 around. I see these routes occuring: SYD-DFW (787), SYD-SIN-Paris (747), SYD-LAX-YVR (747 or no via LAX with 787), CNS-AKL (767) and SYD-ICH (747). Jetstar routes when they get more A330's and 787's I see them operating; OOL-KIX (787) BNE-SIN (A330), PER-SIN (330), CNS-SIN (787). Maybe BNE-LAX (787 2-3X Weekly), OOL-SIN (787)... Open for ideas
 
VHVXB
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Fri May 25, 2007 6:18 pm

There is already a similar thread rolling Qantas Investor / Fleet Update (by PanAm_DC10 May 24 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
Gemuser
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Fri May 25, 2007 7:07 pm

QF

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
I see these routes occuring: SYD-DFW (787)

SYD-DFW yes, but dont be surprised if its an A380! SYD-DFW is 7543 nm GC (via SAN). Looking at the manufactures payload range charts the B787 will get to 8000 nm with a payload of about 53,000lbs. The A380 will go 8000 nm with a payload of 120,000lbs. So I don't think at this time one can say which will be the better choice for the route.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
SYD-SIN-Paris (747)

Not unless their is an EU/Oz open skys agreement! Even then from what I hear the AF/QF codeshare over SIN has been so successful QF may not restart CDG even with daily frequency

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
SYD-LAX-YVR (747 or no via LAX with 787)

They already do it via SFO, very seasonal true.

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
CNS-AKL (767)

JQ if at all

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
SYD-ICH (747).

Tricky this one. B787 if at all

JQ

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
OOL-KIX (787)

Possibly

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
BNE-SIN (A330)

Doubt it, more a QF route

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
PER-SIN (330)

Likely

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
CNS-SIN (787)

Already operated by Jetstar Asia A320(via DRW), likely to stay that way

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
Maybe BNE-LAX (787 2-3X Weekly),

Already operated 5x weekly with two class B744, almost certainly will be daily before DJ starts LAX service. Might become a B787 route

Quoting TruemanQLD (Thread starter):
OOL-SIN (787)..

likely

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
MAS777
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 12:09 am

You did forget (or maybe you didn't mean to) to mention that after an absence for a few years - Qantas returns to KUL in the form of Jetstar this September...
 
CXfirst
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 1:20 am

What about PER-AKL. If Cairnes can handle it, so could Perth. Air New Zealand is getting an open market here.

-CXfirst
 
planetime
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 2):
Already operated 5x weekly with two class B744, almost certainly will be daily before DJ starts LAX service. Might become a B787 route

Doubtful of it becomes a 787 route because QF is able to make it work with a 744 now and a 743 before .... for a while ... no sense in drop in capacity.... but with DJ emtering that route ... you have a point.... LAX will soon get a nice variety of OZ birds ... A380,744,787,77W (With DJ). Now thats a real variety campared to now an all out Jumbo fest.
 
TruemanQLD
Topic Author
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 6:25 am

Interesting... What are the plans for the remaining 767's in QANTAS fleet? Will the 744's go and only the 744ER's stay? Doubt it. DJ does not have a great reputation for service so I dont think it will go very well as, unlike domestic, Australians will pay more for comfort and service and they know DJ dont provide it.
 
aussie747
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 7:13 am

QF's 767's will not start being replaced until the QF's first 787's start rolling through est JUL 2009. Even then they have not stated if they will be replacing the 767's that fly internationally (eg from PER to HKG,TYO, SYD to HKG, AKL,HNL and CNS to TYO etc - the 6 x A332's will not be enough aircraft to replace these services as well as expand the current schedule) or start replacing them one for one on their domestic services.

I do see these forthcoming A332's being used to:
replace them on the BOM services, whether they upgrade to 5 x weekly who knows.
Introduction of services to China from Melbourne
Services from SYD to PEK and SHA to go to daily or close to it
Start replacing some 767 services that used to be operated by A333 on Asian Services as mentioned above

With QF having rights from China to operate into Europe. QF only has to negotiate the rights with the EU for them to begin through services. So I wonder what could follow from here.

With QF looking at services to South America, what is the possibility of say services to Rio instead of BUE , SCL ?
 
jfk777
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 8:17 am

What about ORD, Miami and JFK ? Delta talks about Atlanta to SYD with an 777LR so Miami is possible, but DFW and JFK seem the next logical cities in the USA for Qantas. Sydney to JFK is closer then SYD to LHR, and the one city in America needing nonstop service, QF is the only airline with a stake to do it.
 
planetime
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 8:21 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
What about ORD, Miami and JFK ? Delta talks about Atlanta to SYD with an 777LR so Miami is possible, but DFW and JFK seem the next logical cities in the USA for Qantas. Sydney to JFK is closer then SYD to LHR, and the one city in America needing nonstop service, QF is the only airline with a stake to do it.

SYD-MIA that is really no chance of that route coming .. really. DFW-SYD maybe since its a AA hub..... JFK definitely a player because of the demand for NY from OZ.
 
TruemanQLD
Topic Author
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 9:50 am

BNE-Honuolulu, MEL-ICN MAYBE???
 
Tuffer
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 10:20 am

Would there ever be any chance of either QF or JQ extending their HNL flight to someplace like YYC. Lots of ppl from western Canada go down to Australia, and lots of Aussie's come here to go Skiing in the Rockies. Also as of right now no-one is flying to HNL non-stop from YYC and lots of ppl like to frequent those beaches also......

I dont know probably no chance of it ever happening but as they say never say never!
 
Quetzal
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 10:26 am

I'm guessing you mean Incheon when you say ICH???
Sounds more like an A330 or 787 route than a 744 route. Perhaps 744 to start with but perhaps too much capacity for daily ops? SYD-ICN 787 daily down the track.

OOL might start to see some JQ international services - although has the runway been extended yet? Can OOL handle sizeable aircraft departures ie A330's, 787's at full payloads?
If so a Japan service is on the cards, Singapore doubtful. Can't see too much happening here in a hurry given proximity to BNE.

CNS-NZ will never see QF metal... no chance. JQ A320 is a possibility a few times per week.

I had heard that the GeoffStarAsia flights operating SIN-DRW-CNS might be switched to Australian based/registered aircraft. Just speculation.

Not sure that JQ would op PER-SIN with a 330... why not A320 - even a 3K acft? QF A330's taking care of the J class demand, plenty of space down the back for the low-yield market and cargo taken care of with current widebody capacity.

Doubt we'll see QF back at Paris in a hurry. As Gemuser ponited out, QF happy with codeshare arrangement with AF. I think the 787's that they would use for this route would be better off elsewhere... perhaps GIG?

Do the 787's have the range to operate PER-LHR with decent payloads?

Quoting Planetime (Reply 9):
SYD-MIA that is really no chance of that route coming .. really. DFW-SYD maybe since its a AA hub..... JFK definitely a player because of the demand for NY from OZ.

Last time I checked MIA is an AA hub! However, I agree that there would be other US cities to receive non-stop prior to MIA... think DFW, JFK and ORD. SEA?
Having mentioned SEA, I would expect YVR to see non-stop service much earlier than some of the other Nth American cities mentioned. Daily non-stop 787 service... the question is, would it be with JQ or QF, or a combination?
HNL will be JQ only before long.

Expect JQ 787's to be hubbing through SIN on their way to BEY, ATH, ROM, IST etc after a while too.

What's the story with TPE?

We could go on forever....
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
CXfirst
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 7):
eg from PER to HKG,TYO

The 767 does not fly these routes any more. The A330 does.

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 12):
Do the 787's have the range to operate PER-LHR with decent payloads?

Yes, as Virgin Atlantic have stated they have plans to fly to Perth non-stop.

-CXfirst
 
VHVXB
Posts: 5309
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:54 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 10):
MEL-ICN MAYBE???

I think Korean Air has planned a 3 weekly service

Quoting Tuffer (Reply 11):
JQ extending their HNL flight to someplace like YYC.

They could once more aircraft become available
 
TruemanQLD
Topic Author
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 11:26 am

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 12):
OOL might start to see some JQ international services - although has the runway been extended yet? Can OOL handle sizeable aircraft departures ie A330's, 787's at full payloads?
If so a Japan service is on the cards, Singapore doubtful. Can't see too much happening here in a hurry given proximity to BNE.

The airport has been extended or is nearly ready. JQ was looking at OOL-KIX a little while ago

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 12):
Do the 787's have the range to operate PER-LHR with decent payloads?

LHR-PER yes PER-LHR no

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 14):
Quoting Tuffer (Reply 11):JQ extending their HNL flight to someplace like YYC.

Would be nice Calgary is beautiful but I cant see it happening
 
Ken777
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 12:13 pm

Flights to ORD/DFW make sense for destinations west of the Rockies. DFW for the southern states and ORD for the northern/northeast ones. QF probably has a huge database of where their pax originate from and should be able to make some wise decision based on that. The only problem is that it takes pax away from LAX where QF is sending the 380. But then if that drains away sufficient pax QF might be able to put a 380 on the UK route earlier than anticipated.

Non-stop flights to JFK seem to be a no-brainer. It would just be a matter of when they are able to do it.
 
DJ748
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RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
What about ORD, Miami and JFK ?

I did see ORD was due to be started a number of years ago from MEL, but it turned out to be a non-starter, and I saw the information on the QF website, linked here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn.../details?ArticleID=2002/nov02/2822

I haven't heard anything about this flight since it was announced close to 5 years ago.

MIA I can see happening, but just wait for it.......it might happen in the long term.

JFK is already served by QF - was only just recently announced to go to a daily rotation from SYD (via LAX), and is due to start on 14 August. Linked here:

http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn...details?ArticleID=2007/mar07/Q3557
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 15):
Quoting Quetzal (Reply 12):
Do the 787's have the range to operate PER-LHR with decent payloads?

LHR-PER yes PER-LHR no

...even with headwinds, the B787-9 should be able to make it on this route year round (maybe a few stops) with full pax and/or decent payload..

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
What about ORD, Miami and JFK

MIA-pushing the limits of the B789, no need for it right now anyway.....maybe sometime down the road if there is a B787ER/LR plane.....

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
? Delta talks about Atlanta to SYD with an 777LR so Miami is possible

....though its certainly possible with the -200LR, until DL start ATL-SYD, I'm a little bit skeptical on this route....

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 8):
but DFW and JFK seem the next logical cities in the USA for Qantas.

..DFW would certainly be high on their list....so is ORD..in fact, ORD was already announced by QF via AKL (but was ended due to 9/11 and the route never started...)......

I would see YVR first before JFK.....

my top choices for QF...
ORD
DFW
YVR(year round)
JFK(nonstop-eventually)
"Up the Irons!"
 
Gemuser
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 3:56 pm

Quoting Planetime (Reply 5):
but with DJ emtering that route

Exactly!

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 6):
Will the 744's go and only the 744ER's stay?

When the A380s are delivered in 08 QF will have 21 B744 between 15 & 19 years old (includes the Ugly Sisters), 3 that are 8/9 years old and 6 B744ER 5/6 years old.

I could see the oldest B744s being phased out between 2010-2015 or so, but the last 3 and the ERs will most likely be around until 2020 or so.

Quoting Tuffer (Reply 11):
Would there ever be any chance of either QF or JQ extending their HNL flight to someplace like YYC. Lots of ppl from western Canada go down to Australia, and lots of Aussie's come here to go Skiing in the Rockies. Also as of right now no-one is flying to HNL non-stop from YYC and lots of ppl like to frequent those beaches also..

That seems reasonable, on a seasonal basis, for JQ carrying Oz skiers to YYC & Canadian beach goers to HNL/Oz, but would require a renegotiation of the Oz/Canadia bi=lateral. There has been murmurings about this happening.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
Flights to ORD/DFW make sense for destinations west of the Rockies. DFW for the southern states and ORD for the northern/northeast ones

DFW non stop for sure with that AA hub, but why ORD? What advantage does ORD offer that DFW does not? I cant see QF operating both unless there is some clear advantage and I doubt ORD-Oz O&D traffic is that advantage.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
Non-stop flights to JFK seem to be a no-brainer.

I really, really doubt the market is big enough! Loads on the current 5 weekly LAX-JFK-LAX tag are apparently NOT inspiring. They hope going daily(from August?) will improve things. We will have to see.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
planetime
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 12):
Having mentioned SEA, I would expect YVR to see non-stop service much earlier than some of the other Nth American cities mentioned.

Well with AC starting nonstop service to YVR with a 77W and seasonal 744 service of QF via SFO ... I think that might be all the capacity needed for the time being. Also we have to take into consideration size and population factor of US as compared to Canada .. 300 Million vs 30 Million...
 
Quetzal
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:22 am

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 6:37 pm

Quoting Planetime (Reply 20):
Well with AC starting nonstop service to YVR with a 77W and seasonal 744 service of QF via SFO ... I think that might be all the capacity needed for the time being. Also we have to take into consideration size and population factor of US as compared to Canada .. 300 Million vs 30 Million...

Planetime, I get your point... just call it a feeling though. There are strong cultural links between the 2 countries and while AC will have a 773 on the route, I still think there is room for QF/JQ especially if op is with 787. If AC were Oneworld or QF were with StarAlliance I would agree with you wholeheartedly. A codeshare would be in place in no time.
Look for QF to drop the SFO-YVR extension down the line when 787 non-stop capability becomes possible. The current seasonal add-on is just to get the ball rolling.

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 19):
I really, really doubt the market is big enough! Loads on the current 5 weekly LAX-JFK-LAX tag are apparently NOT inspiring. They hope going daily(from August?) will improve things. We will have to see.

I've also heard that the LAX-JFK loads are not all that great, but it's to be expected no? Many pax simply terminate in LA or continue on other (presumably AA) services to their Eastern US destination, leaving plenty of spare seats on a 747.... after all, no great advantage of same aircraft service through LAX when you have to clear the diabolical customs/immigration process anyway and find your way back to the plane. Awful.
It'll be very interesting to see what QF comes up with with their route planning re North America.
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
planetime
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 7:03 pm

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 21):
I've also heard that the LAX-JFK loads are not all that great

Good cargo revenue. Also I heard good number of premium pax on that route. Y class is about 1/2 full on the average.

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 21):
There are strong cultural links between the 2 countries and while AC will have a 773 on the route, I still think there is room for QF/JQ especially if op is with 787.

With 787 lots of new routes are possible and this is one fo them to be considered. DFW is certainly and ORD will be on the top of the list I would imagine. Let time tell.
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sat May 26, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 13):
Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 7):
eg from PER to HKG,TYO

The 767 does not fly these routes any more. The A330 does.

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 12):
Do the 787's have the range to operate PER-LHR with decent payloads?

Yes, as Virgin Atlantic have stated they have plans to fly to Perth non-stop.

-CXfirst

Sorry the 767 does the routes from PER to HKG and TYO and has for some months now.
 
TruemanQLD
Topic Author
Posts: 1346
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:09 pm

RE: New Qantas And Jetstar Routes! Part 2

Sun May 27, 2007 11:18 am

What great advantage of flying to ORD is there? I would expect probably more like SYD-DFW and SYD-O'hare not ORD

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