sflaflight
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UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:45 am

MNBC reporting UA 747 returning to IAD with Engine out. Not sure if it's a fire or what. Reports on MSNBC is that it will dump fuel.

Edit: Seems like eye witnesses saw fire in an engine at take off. Flightaware showing crusing at 5000 feet right now.

[Edited 2007-05-25 19:50:24]
 
Queso
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:48 am

Same news on CNN.



.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:49 am

International Homo of Mystery
 
sflaflight
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:53 am

MSNBC reporting possible landing in about 10 to 15 minutes. Fuel must have been dumped. They have the cameras ready to view this landing from chopper 4 NBC news Washington (WRC)

BTW, runways now closed. Delays starting at 20 minutes. Apparently will land from the south.

[Edited 2007-05-25 19:56:01]
 
dtwclipper
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:55 am

Why is the media making this into such a big deal? Slow news day?
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sflaflight
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:57 am

Because there is nothing better than a possible tragedy? Sad though!

Plane just landing and reporter said "well thank goodness it was a safe landing. It could have turned into something tragic. Those people should be breathing a sigh of relief."

Love that. Tragic. Stupid people. IT HAS 4 ENGINES. IT CAN FLY ON 1!!!!!!!

Well, I at least we got to see professional video of a 747 land beautifully and smoothly on a Friday afternoon  Wink

[Edited 2007-05-25 20:01:39]
 
stlgph
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 4):
Why is the media making this into such a big deal? Slow news day?

-very-

how ironic that one of the Producers started off the day with "a plane crash...or something would be nice."

note that he didn't say anyone died.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
71Zulu
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:00 am

Did you hear the "expert commentator" on Fox News?

The 747 is built to take-off and fly on 1 engine

The 747 cannot dump fuel

Unbelievable



Now there is a real pilot on the air and he is setting everything straight.
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stlgph
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:00 am

oh...and it looks like CNN is getting a chance to test out a new chromakey.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
707lvr
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:00 am

Slow news day. Excellent time to put out massive amounts of incorrect information on every station.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:00 am

CNN reports UA897 is safely on the ground.
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dtwclipper
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:01 am

All over......no news here, move on.
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FA4B6
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:01 am

Plane just landed safely as per CNN.
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71Zulu
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:02 am

Oh man, it gets even funnier.

Laurie Dhue just said that "because they are going to China and it is a long flight, the pilots would like to have all the engines running."

 Yeah sure
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Queso
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:05 am

MSNBC scooped CNN on this one, MSNBC has video of the plane.
 
707lvr
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:06 am

I didn't realize a 747 could carry 3300 gallons of fuel. Wow, that's a lot.  Smile (Thanks MSNBC)
 
sflaflight
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 14):
MSNBC scooped CNN on this one, MSNBC has video of the plane.

And excellent video at that.
 
sdkualeb
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:14 am

(Plane just landed safely as per CNN)

10 Minutes after MSNBC had it
 
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RobK
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 11):
All over......no news here, move on.

Quite.  yes 

R
 
flydreamliner
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 7):
Did you hear the "expert commentator" on Fox News?

The 747 is built to take-off and fly on 1 engine

The 747 cannot dump fuel

Wow, that's good reporting... where do they find these 'experts?' I'd be surprised if there were a 4 engine airplane anywhere that could take off and fly on one engine, that's just common sense right there. 747 can fly, but not appreciably climb, on two, is my understanding, however takeoff requires all 4.

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 13):
Laurie Dhue just said that "because they are going to China and it is a long flight, the pilots would like to have all the engines running."

Hahaha, that is very true. British Airways has kept on trucking on its flights when one engine goes out, just keep on cruising with 3, it happens. 3 works, they'd just rather have 4, you know? Hahaha
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
BrianDromey
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:32 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 5):
Love that. Tragic. Stupid people. IT HAS 4 ENGINES. IT CAN FLY ON 1!!!!!!!

I think the 747 can maintain height on one engine, it certaily wont be going anywhere quickly!

Agreed that this is a non-event. One shut down engine on a 747 is not the biggest deal in the world. Bloody hell iagine iof it were a twin, the media would have a field day!

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
jacobin777
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:32 am

...fortunately us A.netters know the truth more than most of those so-called "experts"..... Wink
.....I'm glad it landed safely and no one was hurt..a "blown" engine which could have caused ancillary damage could have been a bit more terrible...
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Norcal773
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:50 am

UA had another engine failure on a ORD-NRT 744 yesterday (Thur). They were over WA state when one engine went tech and they diverted to SFO. They put pax in hotels and departed again this morning using a Star Alliance painted UA 744 (Don't know if UA has one of those but that what I was told) I heard all this from my best friend who was on the plane and I talked to him when he boarded at ORD and was telling him about Channel 9 which he apparently enjoyed since he had never heard of it. He called me 5 hours later and my statement was they must have been flying Super-sonic speed if they made it to NRT in 5 hours...lol.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):

Went spotting at SFO this morning, didn't see you but I saw a bunch of your favorite AA maddogs.  biggrin 
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LTU932
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:52 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 20):
Agreed that this is a non-event. One shut down engine on a 747 is not the biggest deal in the world. Bloody hell iagine iof it were a twin, the media would have a field day!

Indeed. Let's remember BA when they flew their 747s as TriJets.  Wink  duck 
 
futurecaptain
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 3:59 am

Why can I find nothing about this on MSNBC or CNN?

Oh well, at least there are no front page stories of passengers saying they feared for their lives and will never fly again.
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AeroWesty
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 4:04 am

What I don't understand about the drama over this is that unless there's a compressor stall or something, with flames coming out of the engine, you don't even know an engine has shut down as a passenger. The first time it happened to me on a 747, the pilot simply informed us that CO didn't have maintenance crew at DEN to handle a 747 (which was right below us), so we were going back to LAX, and he simply did a wide 180, and that was that.
International Homo of Mystery
 
DAYflyer
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 15):
I didn't realize a 747 could carry 3300 gallons of fuel. Wow, that's a lot. (Thanks MSNBC)

Unreal.

I'm surprised they didn't call it a Cessna or something. Idiots.
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futurecaptain
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 15):
I didn't realize a 747 could carry 3300 gallons of fuel. Wow, that's a lot. (Thanks MSNBC)

Amazingly it seems if a reported said this, they actually tried to do some research....they just were to rushed at it. Boeing's website does say "The 747-400 carries 3,300 gallons " but what the reporter failed to see is the rest of the sentence clarifying "of fuel in the horizontal (tail) stabilizer, allowing it to fly an additional 350 nautical miles. " They got the 3300 number right, it's just the smaller tank.
But I guess even though the news tried, this mistake cannot be forgiven. With capacity for over 60000 gallons of fuel reporting such a small number is just another crime against aviation by the news.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
however takeoff requires all 4.

You can ferry the plane on 3 engines to a maintanance base if you need to. It requires special permission and companies usually have their own rules about what conditions such a flight can take place under.
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jacobin777
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 22):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 21):

Went spotting at SFO this morning, didn't see you but I saw a bunch of your favorite AA maddogs.  biggrin 

lol.....I'll be on one tomorrow afternoon.... biggrin 

..did you take any photos with your "camera".. duck 
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worldtraveler
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 5:25 am

just remember that the media's knowledge of other subjects is not a whole lot better than about aviation.

however, I had a friend that did temporary duty for Pan Am in Moscow when Delta took over their operations. This DL person was in the SVO operations room when the PA 747 called in (DL people went a few days early to observe the PA operation). The PA pilots said they needed maint because one engine was OTS. The ops agent questioned them about the possibility of a cancellation and the PA pilot responded by saying he had flown this plane many times and al it needed was an oil top off. As soon as they climbed out, they turned the leaky engine off and then restarted it before landing.....

so maybe the reporter just took his/her experience w/ PA and BA's 747s a little far and extrapolated beyond the point of reason..  Smile

I'd be interested in someone who knows telling us what altitude the 744 has to descend to w/ that fuel load if it were to continue the flight (theoretically) since the lost of thrust would impact the aircraft's performance.

also, I have been on a 767 that has lost an engine and while the plane handled it well the cabin was noticeably quieter with one engine than it was with two. (and it wasn't just because the passengers put their seats in the upright and locked position very quickly). granted a 767 and a 744 are a bit different (just a tad but don't tell CNN)...
 
AADC10
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 5:42 am

Is it my imagination or do 4 engine planes have more engine failures than ETOPS twins? Obviously the odds of having 1 of 4 engines fail is much higher than 1 of 2 and of course ETOPS has higher maintenance requirements.UA has had a couple of 747 engine failures over the last few years but none on the 777 or 767.
 
MDorBust
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 30):
UA has had a couple of 747 engine failures over the last few years but none on the 777 or 767.

Then why did a UA 777 divert to Midway?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
3201
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting 707lvr (Reply 15):
I didn't realize a 747 could carry 3300 gallons of fuel. Wow, that's a lot.

I don't know how they reported that, as its departure fuel or how much it had left when it landed, but that's way less than it can actually hold. For a flight IAD-PEK it would have had more than 10 times that amount.

This Boeing doc shows max fuel capacity on a 747-400 as 57,285 gallons.  Smile
7 hours aint long-haul
 
UAL747
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 30):
Is it my imagination or do 4 engine planes have more engine failures than ETOPS twins? Obviously the odds of having 1 of 4 engines fail is much higher than 1 of 2 and of course ETOPS has higher maintenance requirements.UA has had a couple of 747 engine failures over the last few years but none on the 777 or 767.

I think you just answered your own question. Of course it is twice as likely that you will have an engine out on a 4-engined aircraft than on a twin. Twins, for ETOPS certification are also held to a higher maintenence quality. However, I doubt that UA's 747's recieve any less treatment than their 777's.

There have been numerous 777/767/757 engine failures over the past few years. (Two Malaysia 777's come to mind as well as a United 777). But these events aren't really something significant. Most likely a slow news day on the days the quads have been covered. (However, the Thomsonfly incident was reported on the news, probably only because someone caught it on tape and it was rather interesting to see the engine spit fire on take off and the BOOMS associated with the engine out).

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
OPNLguy
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 13):
Laurie Dhue just said that "because they are going to China and it is a long flight, the pilots would like to have all the engines running."

Priceless...

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):

Hahaha, that is very true. British Airways has kept on trucking on its flights when one engine goes out, just keep on cruising with 3, it happens. 3 works, they'd just rather have 4, you know? Hahaha

They were operating under a different set of rules than the FAR Part 121 our airlines do..

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 25):
The first time it happened to me on a 747, the pilot simply informed us that CO didn't have maintenance crew at DEN to handle a 747 (which was right below us), so we were going back to LAX, and he simply did a wide 180, and that was that.

Completely permissible under our Part 121 regs for a 3- or 4-engined aircraft, as long as doing so is deemed just as safe as diverting to the nearest suitable alternate in point-of-time (as a twin-engined aircraft would have to do.)

May is a sweeps ratings month, so any potential crisis in the air is fair game..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Viscount724
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 30):
UA has had a couple of 747 engine failures over the last few years but none on the 777 or 767.

Then why did a UA 777 divert to Midway?

And this diversion to YZF (Yellowknife in northern Canada) in 2004:


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Chad Blewett
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Photo © UAFlyer



And a UA 777 shut down an engine due low oil pressure en route AKL-LAX in March 2003, resulting in what I believe is still the longest-ever (over 3 hours) single-engine ETOPS diversion to KOA (Kona, Hawaii).
 
legoguy
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:20 am

Is it possible that a blown engine can send debris through the engine nacelle and into the cabin? I have heard of it on a MD-80 (from memory?) and the debris killed a passenger.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
UAL747
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 36):
Is it possible that a blown engine can send debris through the engine nacelle and into the cabin? I have heard of it on a MD-80 (from memory?) and the debris killed a passenger.

Yup! Sure can:


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In this case, bits of the engine fan blades blew through the nacelle of the engine, through the lower fuselage and out the other side. Would have been catastrophic during cruise.

BTW, I think the MD-80 that you are referring to was a DL MD-80 at ATL. (I think).

UAL

[Edited 2007-05-25 23:35:57]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
OPNLguy
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 37):
BTW, I think the MD-80 that you are referring to was a DL MD-80 at ATL. (I think).

PNS...

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 36):
Is it possible that a blown engine can send debris through the engine nacelle and into the cabin? I have heard of it on a MD-80 (from memory?) and the debris killed a passenger.

The original National Airlines (NAL) had a DC-10 engine spit some engine parts out over New Mexico back in the 1970s, a window got hit by a piece. The unlucky Mr. C. F. Gardner who was sitting in the adjacent seat was sucked through the window..

Ugly..
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
legoguy
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 37):



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 38):

Thanks for the details  Smile

My point being, if debris does exit the engine through the nacelle and enter the cabin, then the incident would be significant. Everytime we here of an engine failure of some sort, we can not really write off the incident due to it being a slow news day. If a passenger had been hurt or injured, then we would probably have 2 full threads by now. So the new's crews did not really blow the story out of all proportions.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
cubastar
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 36):
Is it possible that a blown engine can send debris through the engine nacelle and into the cabin? I have heard of it on a MD-80 (from memory?) and the debris killed a passenger.

You might be thinking of the Delta MD-88 that blew an engine on takeoff from Pensacola a few years ago. Debris will go through an engine ........ and out the rear of the engine, but it will not go into the cabin unless it is an uncontained failure. What happened in that instance, a turbine disc blew and debris was not contained and exited out of the side of the engine and went into the cabin and hit a passenger. This has happened more than a few times over the years. For example, the UAL DC-10 at Sioux Falls (and cut the hydraulics) and the CO DC-10 with an overspeed (playing with the circuit breaker) to name two.
 
AA787823
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 7:00 am

The flight to PEK will overnight in IAD and redepart tomrrow with a different 747. The 747 from today will 3-engine ferry to SFO tomorrow for an engine change....
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
OPNLguy
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 39):
So the new's crews did not really blow the story out of all proportions.

As we saw with the recent Thompson 757 incident/thread, just because folks see fire exit the aft end of the engine briefly doesn't mean the aircraft is on fire. I haven't seen the video reports mentioned above, but I'll assume that since nobody mentioned the arriving aircraft trailing a honking huge trail of smoke while on approach that the crew had the engine shut down and it was pretty routine.

[Edited 2007-05-26 00:16:58]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
3201
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 41):
The flight to PEK will overnight in IAD and redepart tomrrow with a different 747. The 747 from today will 3-engine ferry to SFO tomorrow for an engine change....

Thanks for the info. Do you know the tail number of the involved aircraft?

Too bad they couldn't just fly on with 3 engines to SFO -- no fuel dump, shorter continuation of trip, no ferry flight needed, etc. Would be much cheaper operationally. Not sure what their level-off height if losing ANOTHER engine would have been at their weight, whether crossing the Rockies would be an issue (if so, would obviously violate the "just as safe" in the reg described by OPNLguy in reply 34).
7 hours aint long-haul
 
VC10er
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 7:11 am

you know it could have landed in the ocean and sink to the bottom like in airport 77 (or was that 79?). that would be real news! did it have a sexy blind piano player on board?
The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
 
747400sp
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 19):
Hahaha, that is very true. British Airways has kept on trucking on its flights when one engine goes out, just keep on cruising with 3, it happens. 3 works, they'd just rather have 4, you know? Hahaha

Our maybe they just do not want Boeing to look dumb for putting four engines on the jet? HA HA HA

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 20):
Agreed that this is a non-event. One shut down engine on a 747 is not the biggest deal in the world. Bloody hell iagine iof it were a twin, the media would have a field day!

I could just see it, (Our top story for the day, 777 lost a engine in flight).
 
azncsa4qf744er
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 30):
UA has had a couple of 747 engine failures over the last few years but none on the 777 or 767.

WIth only limited numbers of B747-400's that United had in operation, these birds are flying LONG haul routes and often don't have much ground times. I'm not surprise an engines can only go so much hours before their life is up.....
 
n710ps
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 9:46 am

I am curious as to when and how a 777 diverted to MDW. I never heard about this one. I doubt the 777's ability to do so. Getting back out is another question. I know the 777 has excellent short feild performance because it was designed for LGA opps beleive it or not but if it had just departed and diverted to MDW I question the authanticity without offloading massive amounts of fuel fromn the 777.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
MDorBust
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RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting N710PS (Reply 47):
I am curious as to when and how a 777 diverted to MDW. I never heard about this one.

Wrong Midway.

Think more... 1942.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
n710ps
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Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:09 am

RE: UA 897 B747 Engine Out IAD To PEK

Sat May 26, 2007 9:55 am

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! I need to think outside the box more often I guess.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!

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