CV580Freak
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EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 12:31 am

A study carried out by the Boston Consulting Group states that EK will become the worlds largest long haul carrier by 2012.


http://www.gulf-news.com/business/Aviation/10128161.html
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LurveBus
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 12:52 am

with 45 A380s on order, one can't help but say 'duh'  Smile
 
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Stitch
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 1:00 am

They are going to be the proverbial 800-pound gorilla.
 
WINGS
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 1):
with 45 A380s on order, one can't help but say 'duh'

Make that 49 on order. 47 + 2 (leased from ILFC).

Ohh by the way do not rule out another order from Emirates in the near future  Wink

Regards,
Wings
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flydreamliner
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 1:30 am

Haha.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question where they are going to be flying these 49 A380s and however many dozen 777-300ERs, plus that "100 plane order" for A350 or 787? If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
WINGS
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Haha.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question where they are going to be flying these 49 A380s and however many dozen 777-300ERs, plus that "100 plane order" for A350 or 787? If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

Did you actually read the article? It gives various details as to why Emirates is in a privilege situation to obtain those targets. While I also have some doubts about over capacity in the region, I think that the current Emirates model is working well, and their number clearly show that they know what they are doing.

Also do not forget that an eventual A350/B787 order will replace existing airplanes such as the A332/A345/772/777/77W.

I think that many of the major European/Asian airline that have not yet placed orders for the A380 may get a rather nasty surprise when Emirates start to attack. Luckily for Qantas and Singapore Airlines they have taken action and secured more delivery slots.

It will be interesting to see how long other majors such as BA,ANA, JAL,CX realise how much of a threat that EK will have on their market, if they do not keep up with an A380/B748i order.

Regards,
Wings
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CV580Freak
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it

The GCC countries have millions of expat workers and the infrastructure projects planned will see this number vastly increase which gives EK a huge passenger base. As the majority of these are migrant workers they are non too worried about FF programmes or IFE.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
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Stitch
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

Quite simply, EK expects to draw traffic away from those "Tier One" EU and Asian carriers and connect them via DXB/JXB instead of LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS, SIN, and NRT.
 
Parabolica
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 8:21 pm

Dear All,

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous



Quoting WINGS (Reply 3):
Ohh by the way do not rule out another order from Emirates in the near future

Two words : Pan Am


I own a growing business, and I too like to risk, and believe in agressive expansion, but this kind of model based on ever increasing growth simply does not make sense. No entity can expect to continually increase its size in these magnitudes by taking on more infrastructure, people, and tools. It has a limit, and that limit usually comes catastrophically.

That being said, I am not wishing them or any other airline any ill will, save perhaps Spanair which really cannot deserve its place in the Star Alliance. But thats another, more personal story.

Best Regards,
P
oh please let there never be cell phones in airliners...
 
UAEflyer
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 8:30 pm

I agree with the report, EK will rule the Long-Haul market in the world, either you like it or not.
I don't know why we always refer to EK's A380 orders, what is so special, it is 49 !! and look at the delivery period, it for 5 years if not more.

Another thing, why we always compare EK with other carriers, with all the respect to them, EK is a unique experience in the world, they are not focusing on UAE or GCC or Europe, their focus in the whole globe. They are not very much in N & S America they have a strong potential there, and every where due to the tickets price they offer.
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EK413
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Haha.

I wonder if anyone has asked the question where they are going to be flying these 49 A380s and however many dozen 777-300ERs, plus that "100 plane order" for A350 or 787? If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.

Thank you! It couldn't be better said... The airline is expanding more than what it can handle and EK is lacking terribly behind the real LUCRATIVE carriers SQ,LH,CX,JL,MH,QF,KLM/AF,BA...
EK has simply gone ahead and dumped capacity on markets which dont support it and already well served with national carriers...

EK413
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Where in Africa can you fly to anywhere in the world ?
Where in the middle east can you fly to anywhere in the world ?
Where in South West Asia can you fly anywhere in the world ?

This represents an area of approx 25% of the planet, (admittedly poorer) but served enmasse by only 1 dominant carrier.. Emirates. If only 1% of this region can afford to fly.. it would fill every plane Emirates has ordered.

Qatar / Etihad / Gulf are also trying to get a slice of this cake but Kuwait / Air India etc are hardly "major" airlines when compared with the sizes of US airlines.

The middle east / africa is the last area to be explored in commerical aviation.

Emirates's plan is to provide a hub in Dubai that feeds dozens of countries in the region, who before pretty much only had the choice of EU airlines flying to european hubs or to South Africa 1 - 2 times a week, or daily at best, or with "privateeers" in old junk buckets.

When emirates is upto full strength, expect it to open more hubs out side of the middle east...(New Zealand, Ireland maybe even Canada / Mexico further south even ?) Emirates will become the first true global airline.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
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EK413
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 12):
Emirates will become the first true global airline.

I think Im going to  vomit 

EK413
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SEPilot
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 8:58 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
People act like they've figured out some entirely new way to fill planes with passengers, I frankly don't believe they can fill the kind of capacity they are adding at the speed they are doing it, and I think they are going to be in some hard times in the future, especially if Qatar follows through with its threats to buy 150 jets.

Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.

Any organization that expands too fast will run into unforeseen problems; it is human nature. The problems will come as they try to add enough staff to fly and maintain all these planes and get them to act as a part of the company. Every company has its identity based on how they do things, and it is maintained and perpetuated by the long-term employees. When these get overwhelmed by too many newcomers at once the result will be chaos, as everyone will have their own ideas of how things should be done and there will not be enough old-timers to maintain the original practices. Leadership is crucial, but followership is equally important, if underrated. Basically, people are fundamentally bad at it and when you have such a dramatic influx of disparate people (note that most of the crews are expatriates-this will compound the problem) the recipe for disaster is almost perfect.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 10):
If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

If I am a construction worker from India, working on a project in Mozambique... why would I want to fly via Hong Kong, Frankfurt or even Rome ?
And.. when I take a family on a holiday to Cairo from India... why would I want to go via Europe ?
Or what about an IT engineer in Ghana moving to Singapore, would I go via London ?

Make no mistakes.. there's thousands of people in this market.

Emirates has already said not all their A380's will be long haul.
there are are hard working all over africa and the middle east, regardless their salary.. they travel.
If the option is Europe or by boat.. the boat wins.

Now they have a more direct and much cheaper route via Dubai.


I dont think all Emirate's focus is on Europe, hardly at all and it's arrogant of us westerners to assume all airlines / people just want to fly to Europe and America. Often it's the lack of a more direct route that forces people to travel via Europe.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 9):
I don't know why we always refer to EK's A380 orders, what is so special, it is 49 !! and look at the delivery period, it for 5 years if not more.

If BA can fill 60 747's why cant Emirates fill 50 A380s ?
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
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solnabo
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 9:29 pm

Dubai is gonna be THE largest hub for east-west / west-east routes and EK gonna be the King

Way to go EK!

Micke//  wave 
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DAL767400ER
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:02 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 12):
Emirates will become the first true global airline.

Come back with that argument once EK actually serves over 220 destinations from DXB and over 300 destinations total.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 16):
If BA can fill 60 747's why cant Emirates fill 50 A380s ?

For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.
 
Quetzal
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 14):
Any organization that expands too fast will run into unforeseen problems; it is human nature. The problems will come as they try to add enough staff to fly and maintain all these planes and get them to act as a part of the company. Every company has its identity based on how they do things, and it is maintained and perpetuated by the long-term employees. When these get overwhelmed by too many newcomers at once the result will be chaos, as everyone will have their own ideas of how things should be done and there will not be enough old-timers to maintain the original practices. Leadership is crucial, but followership is equally important, if underrated. Basically, people are fundamentally bad at it and when you have such a dramatic influx of disparate people (note that most of the crews are expatriates-this will compound the problem) the recipe for disaster is almost perfect.

Pretty damn true about the staffing issue. An airline can get away with certain aspects of such a rapid expansion such as sending aircraft to 3rd parties for mx etc etc... but I see them having a real problem maintaining quality control and 'consistent' service, especially when it comes to their cabin crew. It'll be a real challenge for EK.
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yowza
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 16):
If BA can fill 60 747's why cant Emirates fill 50 A380s ?



Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 18):
For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.

Been to Dubai lately? It's got huge O&D and that is still growing and will for the foreseeable future. This added to it's transit offerings is huge. Especially when one considers that many European countries and Canada and the US have in recent years tightened transit Visa laws. This essentially means anyone with an Asian or African passport is given the runaround. The UAE is slap bang in the middle of the Africa/Asia crossroads and they will exploit all of this.


YOWza
 
CXfirst
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.

YOWza has got it spot-on. Also, Dubai has lots of transit passengers from Asia/Australia/Africa/Middle East <--> Europe

Not to mention Middle East <--> North/South America market.

BA does not have a lot of transit passengers, the only ones are Europe <--> Asia/North America, which only a tiny amount of people use due to the competitive products of AF/KL, LH, etc.

-CXfirst
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 19):
Been to Dubai lately? It's got huge O&D and that is still growing and will for the foreseeable future

Are you trying to tell me that Dubai's O&D is on the level of London?!? Sorry, but even if Dubai is growing, it still has ways to go before it will have as many inhabitants as London.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 19):
The UAE is slap bang in the middle of the Africa/Asia crossroads and they will exploit all of this.

Who says that Indian carriers won't do just the same? Or African carriers for that matter? Fact is that as time goes by, Indian carriers get more and more longhaul planes which allow them to open up more routes that will fly over EK's Dubai hub, be it to Europe, Africa or North America. It's not like EK is the only option in town. Competition is getting way more intense in the battle for Indians heading West, and it is my firm belief that things won't be as easy as Clark and his folks make it out to be.
 
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
If the national airlines of much larger, wealthier countries, which market themselves to connecting traffic from all over (British, Lufthansa, AF/KLM, JAL) and ideally positioned large long haul carriers like Cathay can't find the need for that capacity, where will Emirates?

With many other reasons India helps.
Wanna take a guess how much traffic growth will India have till 2012? EK is positioning itself to be the one to connect the world to serve the ever growing market
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SEPilot
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 10:52 pm

One thing left out of the equation is that airliners are now appearing that have the range to connect any city pair in the world non-stop. This will inevitably lessen the importance of hubs, as most passengers (especially those able to afford premium prices) will prefer non-stop flights. This will work against EK and anyone else who builds their strategy around a hub.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
GlobalATL
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:09 pm

Is the airport going to be able to handle this type of growth??
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CXfirst
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 24):
Is the airport going to be able to handle this type of growth??

They are building JXB, which will be huge

Heard from one member on this site that DXB will then be exclusively for EK, while all the others go to JXB (even though I thought that this certain members info was wrong)

-CXfirst
 
jacobin777
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 24):
Is the airport going to be able to handle this type of growth??

...yes, especially the new JXB airport coming online next decade.... Smile
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incitatus
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 23):
One thing left out of the equation is that airliners are now appearing that have the range to connect any city pair in the world non-stop. This will inevitably lessen the importance of hubs, as most passengers (especially those able to afford premium prices) will prefer non-stop flights. This will work against EK and anyone else who builds their strategy around a hub.

But there are not a lot of longhaul city pairs that have enough local traffic to support nonstop flights. Look at today's London to HongKong. It is a big market. There are multple nonstop flights. Look at today's Manchester to HongKong. There are no nonstop flights. Maybe there will be service in that market with the 787. If so, it will likely be part of Cathay's hub in Hong Kong, where Manchester travelers will connect to other parts of SE Asia and China. Hubs will continue to be important.

It is the same in the Americas. Somebody working for Google's Research Center in Mountain View, CA, going to its Latin American branch in Belo Horizonte, Brazil, will endure two connections - or more - from San Jose. When will there be a nonstop? Never. Connectivity will continue to be important.
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CV580Freak
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 24):
Is the airport going to be able to handle this type of growth??

The existing DXB is being upgraded at the moment at the same time as the new JXL Jebel Ali airport is being built at a cost of US$82 billion.

The new JXL will be fully operational in 2017 and will be able to handle 120M (nearly 50% more than ATL) passengers and 12M ton of cargo. The new airport will have 6 parallel runways allowing 4 take off and landings simultaneously on a 24 hour a day basis.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
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SEPilot
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 27):
It is the same in the Americas. Somebody working for Google's Research Center in Mountain View, CA, going to its Latin American branch in Belo Horizonte, Brazil, will endure two connections - or more - from San Jose. When will there be a nonstop? Never. Connectivity will continue to be important.

What you say is true; however I see more and more city pairs being connected directly, and I also see more people taking local flights to reach a city where a nonstop flight is available. Also, I can see people connecting more and more in cities that are not hubs per se, but where they can make a connection. Hubs will still exist, and Dubai may be a major one, but the bigger it gets I believe the more people will try to avoid it.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
Shenzhen
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 27):
It is the same in the Americas. Somebody working for Google's Research Center in Mountain View, CA, going to its Latin American branch in Belo Horizonte, Brazil, will endure two connections - or more - from San Jose. When will there be a nonstop? Never. Connectivity will continue to be important.

I sure wouldn't want to fly to either city via Dubai... Does Emirartes fly to these two cities? Does Emirates have over one hundred airplanes yet?

Cheers
 
StarGoldLHR
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Tue May 29, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):
For one thing, the huge O&D market that is London, and the fact that BA has been in the business for quite a few decades more (even if through BOAC) and hence their way to the 60-plane 747 fleet was longer than EK's way to 49 A380s is.

20 years ago you would say the same thing about BA and Ryanair.. no way BA would be overtaken in Europe blah blah...
now look Ryanair's bigger then BA in Europe.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 29):
Connectivity will continue to be important

of course... if you can name any 5 cities in one single african country...
almost certainly the only one with an EU connection will be the capital.

Dubai will be offering regional routes to non-capital cities in a way no other EU airline would ever do..

EK isnt going to be the BA of this region.. more likely the FR of the region with a F / C class extra.
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
CV580Freak
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 30):
Does Emirates have over one hundred airplanes yet?

Passenger aircraft = 92 + 88 on order

Cargo aircraft = 8 + 21 on order

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_Airline#Passenger_Fleet
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
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fxramper
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 12:16 am

How Big Will Emirates Get? (by BoeingFever777 May 12 2007 in Civil Aviation)
 
OldAeroGuy
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 14):
Often it's the lack of a more direct route that forces people to travel via Europe.

Are you suggesting that the A380 will reduce LHR congestion by never actually flying there?
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
flysherwood
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 4):
Emirates is a fine airline, but this kind of expansion is ludicrous.

I have to agree about the expansion being ludicrous but I cannot say from experience whether they are a fine airline or not. I do know this, being the LARGEST of anything is meaningless if you cannot maintain your profitability! If this is just another manifestation of the countries quest to be the BIGGEST, FLASHIEST city in the world, they may have a painful drop once all of those frames are delivered to them. And I don't know about you, but if I can fly from New York to say India non-stop, I won't spend the money to be coursed through Dubai!  Yeah sure
 
airxliban
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 1:34 am

Can anyone give me a hand with filling out the top 8?

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Emirates

I'd have thought LH is #1 and BA is #2 with SQ and AF-KLM somewhere up there as well, but really have no clue.

Help!

Edit: Sorry have just now read EK 773ER's post and to be clear what I meant was the list of the world's top 8 international carriers by available seats

[Edited 2007-05-29 18:48:58]
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 36):
Can anyone give me a hand with filling out the top 8?

As a economy passenger I would never put Ek below BA in any respect. I was a regular BA flyer to DXB from YYZ/YVR until I tried EK this Christmas. Their economy class with that great recline and huge selection channels just below me away, plus they tend to srve better meals than BA.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
travelin man
Posts: 3204
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 1:57 am

I fail to see how Emirates will ever be a major player in the trans-Pacific market (which is huge). Largest "global" carrier is all well and good, but where exactly would EK establish a hub in the Americas or Asia outside of Dubai? Most governments seem fairly hostile towards the idea of a foreign carrier operating too many "non-hub" based routes (see Australia's ongoing denial of SQ's SYD-LAX plans).

Yeah, EK will be huge for the Indian workers going to Africa, the Middle East or Europe. Or tourists transiting Oceania to Europe or Africa. But all this talk of a true "global" carrier seems extreme. Is anyone really going to go LAX-DXB-SYD? Or SFO-DXB-NRT? Or MEX-DXB-PVG?

By the way, what is the range on EK's A380s? Can they make DXB-North America/South America? I'm truly curious. I know Boeing is trying to get the 748i to be able to do DXB-LAX, but I am unsure about the A380.
 
khi747
Posts: 1532
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2000 6:30 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 31):
Dubai will be offering regional routes to non-capital cities in a way no other EU airline would ever do..

EK isnt going to be the BA of this region.. more likely the FR of the region with a F / C class extra.

StarGoldLHR- is right.I agree with each assessment that he makes.

The fact is that EK wont just be doing Middle East-Europe or Africa-Far East but they will absolutely leave no stone unturned in capturing the following markets in my opinion:

1, Australia/NZ-Europe
2, Australia/NZ-N.America & South America
3, Australia/NZ-M.East and Africa
4, Japan-Europe
5, Japan-Africa
6, Far East-Middle East
7, Far East-Africa
8, China-Middle East
9, China-North Africa/South Africa
10, South Asia-Europe
11, South Asia-N.America
12, South Asia-Africa
.........
the fact is that every place east of DXB (which is half the world) is a connection candidate for any point west of DXB (incidentally also half the world).

They have barely scratched the surface of N.America and China. I think there will be some obscene growth from both these places and i think they will capture Latin America even more quickly.

I never like flying EK,i think 90% of their J class is pathetic except for a few planes.I think they are grossly over rated as an airline.I would never fly EK over Etihad and Qatar which i think are amazing airlines.But i can never deny that EK is a modern day aviation phenomenon that probably wont happen again in our life times.It is one heck of a business plan which has some serious and passionate financial backing.

God speed EK!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 35):
don't know about you, but if I can fly from New York to say India non-stop, I won't spend the money to be coursed through Dubai!

So you'd pay a premium for a non-stop service. Good for you. For others, doing it a lot cheaper by flying via DXB may be more suited to their pocket.

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 35):
do know this, being the LARGEST of anything is meaningless if you cannot maintain your profitability



Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 35):
they may have a painful drop once all of those frames are delivered to them

Are you expecting all their A380s to be delivered within a short-time frame? EK is profitable and I don't believe they'd want to spend money like there's no tomorrow if there wasn't an appropriate business plan put in place for them to make profitable use of them.
 
flysherwood
Posts: 881
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:58 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting David_itl (Reply 40):
So you'd pay a premium for a non-stop service. Good for you. For others, doing it a lot cheaper by flying via DXB may be more suited to their pocket.

If you really believe that EK is targeting the non-premium passengers, then you don't know how the longhaul airline business makes money. Why else would they be spending so much money on all of those F and J seats? You are also missing the point of the 787. The economics of this aircraft is going to make it just as viable to fly the direct routes so that the airlines can still attract the budget fliers to fill out the planes.

Quoting David_itl (Reply 40):
EK is profitable and I don't believe they'd want to spend money like there's no tomorrow if there wasn't an appropriate business plan put in place for them to make profitable use of them.

Don't be too sure about this. How long ago did they place the orders for those A380's. A lot has changed over the last 7 years. Including a little aircraft known as the 787 which wasn't even on the radar when EK ordered these. If you don't believe that the 787 is a game changer, look at how much difficulty Airbus is having just trying to come up with the right frame to compete!  Yeah sure
 
CupraIbiza
Posts: 547
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:55 pm

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 23):
This will inevitably lessen the importance of hubs, as most passengers (especially those able to afford premium prices) will prefer non-stop flig

On a shortish flight maybe - but from what I have endured (hell) on MEL-LHR. Forget it!!! Imagine the torture if the flight was non stop. A prisoner for close to 24 hours. Give me one (or two) stops any day.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
MD-90
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 12:45 pm

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 11):
Emirates will become the first true global airline.

The first? I think Pan Am would've qualified for that a few decades ago.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 12:15 pm

The argument is not that there's not a market to exploit: EK is clearly doing a good job of that. However, 100 extra wide body planes within the next decade is more than expanding capacity to meet a growing market. EK seems to be in a large boom right now, but uncertainty and unforeseeable events can always turn these booms upside down, and if this hapens EK is going to have a lot of empty A380's flying around.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23504
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 12:50 pm

Of course, one should remember that EK is not operating in a vacuum here. They fully intend to poach traffic from other long-haul carriers like BA, LH and SQ, amongst others. So it is not like EK has to magically find a large number of "new" passengers who have never flown before to meet their required growth targets.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8782
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 1:21 pm

I doubt DXB will ever overtake SIN, HKG, NRT, LHR etc.

Nowadays most people fly direct from the west to the east. And with the B787 we will see additional nonstop flights.

Just my two cents.
 
JRDC930
Posts: 882
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:36 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 42):
On a shortish flight maybe - but from what I have endured (hell) on MEL-LHR. Forget it!!! Imagine the torture if the flight was non stop. A prisoner for close to 24 hours. Give me one (or two) stops any day.

As an aspiring pilot, i love spending as much time in a plane as possible, however this is probably not true of the average joe public. At the same time stop overs are inconvenient, take more time and definitely increase the feeling of jet lag. If EK can increase the number of non stops to the region at reasonable prices than so long Europe. I wont shoot myself in the foot and travel 1200 miles or more out of the way when i can take a more direct route. I doubt any one would choose stop over flights if they were not usually cheaper or because of mandate due to the Hub system. However i have my doubts about EK's ability to sustain such a large fleet... thats a lot of capacity.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 2:00 pm

Quoting Cba (Reply 44):
The argument is not that there's not a market to exploit: EK is clearly doing a good job of that. However, 100 extra wide body planes within the next decade is more than expanding capacity to meet a growing market. EK seems to be in a large boom right now, but uncertainty and unforeseeable events can always turn these booms upside down, and if this hapens EK is going to have a lot of empty A380's flying around.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):
Of course, one should remember that EK is not operating in a vacuum here. They fully intend to poach traffic from other long-haul carriers like BA, LH and SQ, amongst others. So it is not like EK has to magically find a large number of "new" passengers who have never flown before to meet their required growth targets.

1)many of those planes will be for fleet replacament by the time the B787's and A350's come online, so its not as if they will have hundreds upon hundreds of planes in their fleet.
2)not only is their pax number growing every year, but so is cargo revenue...I've been on EK flights delayed by 40 minutes only to have extra cargo loaded..
3)who's to day what EK will be doing with those 45+ A380's....maybe they have a need for them, maybe they will lease a few out......we'll have to wait to find out..not to mention, EK won't be getting all of their A380's at one time anyway...

...less than 3 years ago, there were no JFK-DXB flights, within 2 1/2 years, EK has managed to send two B773ER's (with their infamous "10-across") and 1 A345....

....how long will this boom last, I certainly don't know..and all "bubbles" don't end the same way...some implode, some deflate slowly and some just stay stagnant....

...finally, we are starting to see some losers in the Middle East...just take a look at GF and how much money they are losing recently and how many routes they are eliminating from their route network.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: EK To Become Largest Long Haul Carrier

Wed May 30, 2007 4:30 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 45):
They fully intend to poach traffic from other long-haul carriers like BA, LH and SQ

Doubt they would just sit idly by and let EK poach.

And another two words: Qater Airlines.

Are EK and QR not competitors?

How are they both going to fill 180 787/A350?

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