TedEx
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YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Tue May 29, 2007 10:50 pm

From http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...story/05-29-2007/0004597133&EDATE=

MILWAUKEE, May 29 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Midwest Air Group, Inc.
(Amex: MEH), parent company of Midwest Airlines, said it will hold a
Webcast today, Tuesday, May 29, to provide an update on its strategic plan.

Company management will provide the update in a conference call with
industry analysts and institutional investors at 4:30 p.m. Eastern time.
The discussion will be available simultaneously in a listen-only mode and
for the following 30 days at
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=88626&p=irol-irhome. Supporting
materials associated with the conference call will be posted at the same
Web address at 4:15 p.m. Eastern time today.

Midwest Airlines features jet service throughout the United States,
including Milwaukee's most daily nonstop flights and best schedule to major
destinations. Catering to business travelers and discerning leisure
travelers, the airline earned its reputation as "The best care in the air"
by providing passengers with impeccable service and onboard amenities at
competitive fares. Both Skyway Airlines, Inc. -- a wholly owned subsidiary
of Midwest Airlines -- and SkyWest Airlines, Inc. operate as Midwest
Connect and offer service to and connections through Midwest Airlines'
hubs. Together, the airlines offer service to 51 cities. More information
is available at http://www.midwestairlines.com.
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 12:33 am

Should be interesting, perhaps they may announce an order of 737/A320 to replace the MD-80s!? One can only speculate...  sarcastic 
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TedEx
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 12:56 am

Indeed. Or E195s?#@?  Smile
 
boeingguy1
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic P

Wed May 30, 2007 2:56 am

My god.

Out of all the airline "petition" websites, this is my favourite:

http://www.savethecookie.com/
"...Gatwick South!? Id rather crash in Brighton!"
 
vivavegas
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 1):
Should be interesting, perhaps they may announce an order of 737/A320 to replace the MD-80s!? One can only speculate...

Just last week they mentioned they will have a decision later this year (granted they have been saying that for the last two years).

Just throwing out a balloon, but local media had a blurb on the noon news that "Virgin Airlines" says MKE is on the list for service, based on my past history with the media types in MKE this would be Virgin America. Not sure if that is playing into this announcement or if this was just an blurb from a media press release today?

sniffing around on Howell Avenue...

Craig
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
Mainland
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:21 am

Will see if there's anything of note in the call:

Midwest Air Group Announces Next Phase of Strategic Plan: Brings Choice to Customers
Signature and Saver Seating To Be Available on All Midwest Airlines Aircraft in 2008; Move Expected to Significantly Boost Revenue and Reduce Unit Costs

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070529/aqtu181.html?.v=1

[Edited 2007-05-29 22:27:46]
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airtran737
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Mainland (Reply 5):
Will see if there's anything of note in the call:

Midwest Air Group Announces Next Phase of Strategic Plan: Brings Choice to Customers
Signature and Saver Seating To Be Available on All Midwest Airlines Aircraft in 2008; Move Expected to Significantly Boost Revenue and Reduce Unit Costs

Midwest just became a bit more like AirTran. What happened to the commitment to 2X2 seating? This will piss off the YX cheerleaders.
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Boeing7E7
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting Mainland (Reply 5):
Midwest Air Group Announces Next Phase of Strategic Plan: Brings Choice to Customers
Signature and Saver Seating To Be Available on All Midwest Airlines Aircraft in 2008; Move Expected to Significantly Boost Revenue and Reduce Unit Costs

I win. I called this in 2005 (reply 63):

RE: Midwest Airlines - How Are They Doing? (by Boeing7E7 Sep 28 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 6):
Midwest just became a bit more like AirTran. What happened to the commitment to 2X2 seating? This will piss off the YX cheerleaders.

As soon as you move to 36" pitch in first (with half the seats being first) and 34" pitch in coach you can make that claim.

[Edited 2007-05-29 22:43:11]
 
travatl
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:44 am

Yeah, 40C 59Y seems odd. (I get it - 99 seats means only 2 flight attendants still), but imagine 50 Y pax and 2 C pax on board. Weight and balance issue?
 
cloudboy
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:44 am

So can someone please tell me what is going to make Midwest anny different from any other airline that offers coach and business class seats? Particularly if you can't even book business class? Their legroom is in fact less than JetBlue (34" versus 33" or 32"), and the same as Virgin's upcoming 319's. There's no advantage to seat width, their routing is, for the most part, undesireable, and the onlly service extra they offer are chocolate chip cookies. Which I can pick up as Ms. Fields in half the airports I fly througha anyways. The increased seat width was about the only reason to fly Midwest.

At one point, they were one of only two airlines to even make a profit (along with SouthWest). Now they suddenly got all scared and are throwing away their advantage. I just can't see a viable way in which they have any advatage to survive now.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
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JBo
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 6):
Midwest just became a bit more like AirTran. What happened to the commitment to 2X2 seating? This will piss off the YX cheerleaders.

Did you read the article? I'm fairly certain they're still committed to it.

Nearly half the 717 will still be in Signature config. 40 Signature + 59 Saver. That's more enhanced seating than any other airline still provides, is it not?

They're also adding 12 signature seats to the Saver MD-80s.

If they weren't committed to the Signature seating, don't you think they'd have gotten rid of it by now?

This is certainly a smart move on YX's part ... the additional seats on the 717 will help revenues, and offering signature on the MD-80s is a plus.

I imagine we'll hear something later this year on the MD-80 replacement program. I predict 737s/A320s in a configuration similar to the 717.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:51 am

Honestly, how are they going to price these two classes? Does anyone know? Hell, does YX management even know?

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
deltadude8
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:58 am

there will be a 6.7% decrease in cost per seat mile with the 99 seats on board...

the Sig. Service seats will be gaurenteed to Unrestricted Fares, and otherwise will be availiable for "A small fee" as an upgrade...

The goal of going to this method is:
"More lower-fare seats" this will "help with business/leisure markets"
 
travatl
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 5:58 am

This does seem to have a desperate feel to it. They likely wanted to go with a much smaller number of C seats, but realized this would've A) added an extra flight attendant and B) practically erased their defense against AirTran. I think the shareholder's meeting is going to be extremely difficult for the YX mgmt - I forsee lot's of shouting and fingerpointing. Damn I want a ticket!
 
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JBo
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 11):
Honestly, how are they going to price these two classes? Does anyone know? Hell, does YX management even know?

From the memo:

"Along with providing customers with greater choice, our dual-seating
initiative will generate additional revenue from the sale of higher-value
Signature seats. On our MD-80s, Signature seats will be available for an
incremental fee. On our 717s, Signature seating will automatically be
provided to passengers traveling on select unrestricted fares. Other
passengers will be able to take advantage of Signature seating for an
incremental fee."
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:05 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 9):
So can someone please tell me what is going to make Midwest anny different from any other airline that offers coach and business class seats?

More of both. Signature matches other domestic first, saver is equal to jetBlue at 34" pitch.
 
deltadude8
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:08 am

As I understand...

The Signature Service Price WILL NOT CHANGE....those fares will stay the same...The only difference is that there will be 59 Seats on the 717's for a cheaper fare...

So the product still remains ALL COACH...and all COACH PRICED
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 4):
local media had a blurb on the noon news that "Virgin Airlines" says MKE is on the list for service

I wouldn't be to surprised if they started flying from SFO with a couple daily flights. YX is the only other airline that flies that route and someone is going to have to fill those new concourse C gates.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
micstatic
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:48 am

What about for people who have booked Nov or Dec flights on them? Is there a chance they would try to bounce them to coach?
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Micstatic (Reply 18):
What about for people who have booked Nov or Dec flights on them? Is there a chance they would try to bounce them to coach?

The way it's being phased, the MD-80's are getting upgraded first, then the 717's are being shiftes. I'm sure they would time the 7127 seat sales with the planned transition, not after the seats have been booked.
 
srbmod
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 7:04 am

Very interesting........

On one hand, one can figure that Midwest appears to see the writing on the wall and is preparing their customers for the transition when the airline is integrated into AirTran. On the other hand, it could be a necessary move on their part in a bid to keeps costs in line and help to make their stand alone plan be viable. Having a fleet with multiple cabin layouts (Signature and Saver not to mention the a/c in sports charter setups) can potentially cause problems in the event of an a/c swap. Plus it gives the airline a uniform cabin throughout their system. I'm sure some passengers that perhaps flew to MKE on a Signature Service flight weren't too thrilled about having to fly a leg on a Saver Service flight.

In many ways, going to this sort of setup pretty much makes Midwest like the bulk of the airlines out there by having a two cabin set up.

The way the cabin will be set up on the 717s is interesting to say the least since it will be close to 1/3rds Signature and 2/3rds. That's quite a generous front cabin for any narrowbody a/c. You would think that on the Mad Dogs they would have had more than 12 Signature seats, although 12 front cabin seats is quite common with many airlines.
 
jibblets
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 20):
one can figure that Midwest appears to see the writing on the wall and is preparing their customers for the transition when the airline is integrated into AirTran

Why would anyone figure that? Midwest wouldn't bother making the changes at all if that was truly the case. They are clearly committed to fighting AirTran's unsolicited offer otherwise there would have been movement to open their books and negotiate a sale. To suggest that Midwest wants to prepare its customers for the level of service AirTran offers would indicate that they should be removing the leather seats, discontinuing the buy-on-board program, removing ovens, reducing leg room at every seat, and adding many more seats to the 717s.
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 8:22 am

Well for some reason both of the other YX threads have been deleted apprently so I'm going to have to carry over my posting here. Not to be bashful or anything but the other threads both had over 20 posts so is it just me or do they really need to be deleted? Anyways, back to the topic at hand - While its good to see the MD-80s getting signature its kinda disapoitning to see the 717s getting saver. Perhaps somewhere down the road I hope that signature may make a full comeback to the 717s but who knows. Atleast the saver seats will now have the brown leather instead of cloth so that's good.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
travatl
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 8:27 am

Well AirTran's response didn't take long....

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070529/nytu152.html?.v=88
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Travatl (Reply 23):
Well AirTran's response didn't take long....

Too bad Leonard is too stupid to understand the difference between their product and a product where half the aircraft is in a 2+2 business class configuration. What a clown.

"At AirTran Airways, we've always believed in offering our customers choice," said Joe Leonard, AirTran's chairman and chief executive officer.

Really? Having an airline like Midwest vs a sardine can like AirTran is called having a choice there Joe Bob.

[Edited 2007-05-30 01:43:01]
 
F9Animal
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 12):
there will be a 6.7% decrease in cost per seat mile with the 99 seats on board...

YIKES!! Now that is not bad. In fact, that is a pretty good percentage decrease!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
n917me
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 8:42 am

Actually, the dual seating is something that has be looked at for some time, if you look through past interviews with Tim and airline analysts, this is something that has been coming for a while. YX knows that in todays market, 2X2 throughout just isn't feasable, and taking the stakeholders best interest, decided to add seats, thus increasing revenue and decreasing costs.

I think overall this is a good thing as it will make the airline more uniform throughout.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting N917ME (Reply 26):
Actually, the dual seating is something that has be looked at for some time, if you look through past interviews with Tim and airline analysts, this is something that has been coming for a while. YX knows that in todays market, 2X2 throughout just isn't feasable, and taking the stakeholders best interest, decided to add seats, thus increasing revenue and decreasing costs.

I think overall this is a good thing as it will make the airline more uniform throughout.

Heck, they could go with 12 first at 38" pitch in a 2+2 and the rest at 34" pitch in a 2+3 and it'd still be better than anything AirTran will ever put on the table.

[Edited 2007-05-30 01:45:22]
 
srbmod
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Jibblets (Reply 21):



Quoting Jibblets (Reply 21):

Why would anyone figure that? Midwest wouldn't bother making the changes at all if that was truly the case. They are clearly committed to fighting AirTran's unsolicited offer otherwise there would have been movement to open their books and negotiate a sale. To suggest that Midwest wants to prepare its customers for the level of service AirTran offers would indicate that they should be removing the leather seats, discontinuing the buy-on-board program, removing ovens, reducing leg room at every seat, and adding many more seats to the 717s.

Next time, don't selectively quote users in such a way that it is misleading and takes their words out of context.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 20):
On one hand, one can figure that Midwest appears to see the writing on the wall and is preparing their customers for the transition when the airline is integrated into AirTran.

By leaving out the "On one hand" portion of my post, you've changed the context and meaning of it.
 
deltadude8
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 9:31 am

Well I have decided that I will no longer tender my Midwest Airlines shares...
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 29):
Well I have decided that I will no longer tender my Midwest Airlines shares...

So once you tender your shares to FL you have the option to withdraw them? Is that what your saying? Sorry, I'm kinda of a newbie on the stock market and such.  Silly
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
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JBo
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 30):
So once you tender your shares to FL you have the option to withdraw them? Is that what your saying? Sorry, I'm kinda of a newbie on the stock market and such.

Actually yes, that is true. "Tendering" shares does not actually constitute a full transfer of shares.

To put it very simply: "Tendering" is more or less stating your "intent to sell" your shares at the offered price. Shareholders who have tendered their shares reserve the right to withdraw their "intent" at any time before the closing of the deal.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
mkeflyer717
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 9:48 am

OK. I haven't posted much on the related YX/FL topics in the past but this time I feel it is necessary to express some thoughts of mine since FL supporters seem to have some pretty crazy ones of their own. First off let me say its ridiculous how FL and its fans attack Midwest for every move or decision they make. Is it just me or is FL acting more and more like YX's mother who bitches about every little thing? Or should I say FL is the big bully on the playground who has nothing better to do than to pick on someone else for their own pleasure? I mean come on, YX is an airline too and has the right to make its own choices for what they feel is best for the company and its passengers. "Imitation" hahaha now that's funny... nothing YX has done shows that they are weak, desperate, or giving into FL like some have stated. They are trying new approaches some of which such as the new configuration have been discussed for years and were not influenced by FL what so ever. Every time YX makes some sort of announcement FL people take opportunity to criticize the airline which shows their true colors ... which for the most part are not pretty. Now back to the new seating configuration. If you compare the signature seats to FL's business seats there is no match. How is 40 signature seats and 59 saver seats come even close to what FL has to offer? FL has 12 business seats on their 717's... woopty-freakin-doo. Just grow up FL and face the fact that you cannot have everything you want all the time!

-Gaston
Avoid the Chicago ORDeal!! Fly MKE!
 
n917me
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting Mkeflyer717 (Reply 32):
OK. I haven't posted much on the related YX/FL topics in the past but this time I feel it is necessary to express some thoughts of mine since FL supporters seem to have some pretty crazy ones of their own. First off let me say its ridiculous how FL and its fans attack Midwest for every move or decision they make. Is it just me or is FL acting more and more like YX's mother who bitches about every little thing? Or should I say FL is the big bully on the playground who has nothing better to do than to pick on someone else for their own pleasure? I mean come on, YX is an airline too and has the right to make its own choices for what they feel is best for the company and its passengers. "Imitation" hahaha now that's funny... nothing YX has done shows that they are weak, desperate, or giving into FL like some have stated. They are trying new approaches some of which such as the new configuration have been discussed for years and were not influenced by FL what so ever. Every time YX makes some sort of announcement FL people take opportunity to criticize the airline which shows their true colors ... which for the most part are not pretty. Now back to the new seating configuration. If you compare the signature seats to FL's business seats there is no match. How is 40 signature seats and 59 saver seats come even close to what FL has to offer? FL has 12 business seats on their 717's... woopty-freakin-doo. Just grow up FL and face the fact that you cannot have everything you want all the time!

-Gaston

Very well put!! Thank you!!!!!!
 
jibblets
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 28):
By leaving out the "On one hand" portion of my post, you've changed the context and meaning of it.

Not at all. I selectively quoted the portion of your post that I wanted to address. If anyone can't read up one post to see the entire message that you wrote, then I can't help that. I don't believe there's any reason to waste time quoting a lot of excess text that has no relevance to the message I am posting.

You said that "one can figure that Midwest appears to see the writing on the wall and is preparing their customers for the transition when the airline is integrated into AirTran" and that has no change in meaning whether or not you put "on one hand" in front of it or not. Your message implies clearly that other people could think that, not that it is necessarily your own opinion. That is why I asked "Why would anyone figure that?" and not "Why would you figure that?"

Next time, don't judge my post by how much of your post I quote.
 
cloudboy
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:03 am

The fact remains that to the average passenger, you either purchase a full price coach airfare OR you get stuck in typical seating that every other airline has, maybe even worse. Midwest 717's have 17" seats, which are 1" narrower than the airbus 18" seats. I also believe that Midwest has 33" pitch, whereas Jet Blue has 34" in back and 36" in front. Yeah, MAYBE you can purchase an upgrade, IF there are seats available. But are you going to risk that or simply fly the airline that offers more legroom guaranteed? If MidWest's ace was improved service, how is this going to work for the average flyer? You can't just cater to one or two frequent fliers - you need to cater to a whole market. They have essentially crippled their benefit - it's not like they offer any other service amenities that other airlines do not, except for the cookies. And quite frankly three cookies is not enough to make me spend more to fly their airline.

I really don't get this. They are going to distance more occasional fliers who used to spend more to fly Midwest because they offered a better product, but they aren't offering anything that would make someone want to fly them over Jet Blue, Spirit, American, or anybody else. People don't buy tickets based on seat costs per mile or how many percentages of their seats are in a certain class. They buy based on what offers the best product for the best price for when they need to travel. So you either have to have the lowest price or the better product. While it doesn't seem to perfectly mix in with AirTran's needs, perhaps they are thinking of a possible team-up with another airline?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:17 am

I think this was an interesting move by YX management. There is a clear need for them to address shareholder concerns, and so they have implemented a strategy to increase revenue. The question is, "at what cost?" Now Signature Service is not guaranteed unless you buy the full-flex fare or are able to purchase an upgrade. They've diluted their product based on what past performance indicated the CASM would have been. There's no guarantee the RASM will actually improve, if they alientate flyers who flew them solely for the guaranteed Signature seating. Midwest's best selling point for fighting off the merger has been their unique brand, which is now diluted. I think there is some merit to the argument being made by pro-YX'ers here who think this will improve the airline's stand-alone ability, but I have to respectfully disagree. Certainly this new set-up is not FL's set-up, but it is not what made YX unique, either.
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:22 am

Any chance of YX growing MCI more and adding more destinations there?
 
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JBo
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RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 35):
Midwest 717's have 17" seats, which are 1" narrower than the airbus 18" seats. I also believe that Midwest has 33" pitch, whereas Jet Blue has 34" in back and 36" in front.

Straight from the company memo:
"Signature seats on the 717s will offer a 36" pitch -- that's 2-3 more inches of legroomthan current 717 Signature seating.

Seat pitch for the saver rows on the MD-80s are currently 33" and may or may not be more than that when the Sig rows are added to them, and I imagine saver pitch on the 717 will be the same as on the MD-80s.

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 35):
Yeah, MAYBE you can purchase an upgrade, IF there are seats available. But are you going to risk that or simply fly the airline that offers more legroom guaranteed?

According to the announcement, the Signature seats on the MD-80s will be sold for upgrade fees from existing fares, and I imagine they may also offer some premium fares for those seats as well.

On the 717s, the Signature seats will still be sold at many of the existing fares. The Saver seats will be sold for some of the more restrictive fares, as well as new cheaper fares not previously feasible on the 717. Also, like the MD-80s, an option to upgrade to Signature from Saver seats will be available.

So really, nothing has changed except making more options available.

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 35):
If MidWest's ace was improved service, how is this going to work for the average flyer? You can't just cater to one or two frequent fliers - you need to cater to a whole market.

It's going to work for the average flier by offering more options than are previously available in terms of fare structure all around and added capacity on the 717. To me, that seems to cater to a wider audience than a couple frequent flyers. If they were catering to the FFs, they'd keep it all signature.

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 35):
They have essentially crippled their benefit - it's not like they offer any other service amenities that other airlines do not, except for the cookies.

How about:
40 Signature seats on the 717s ... that's nearly 40% of the seats on the aircraft that remain enhanced seating. Name one other carrier that offers that, especially domestic.

Buy on board meals that many say are better fare than what other domestic carriers offer.

Aboveboard customer service ... in other words, we actually go out of our way to help our passengers. How many other airlines actually hold connecting flights on a regular basis to ensure passengers make their connection as opposed to stranding them?

Midwest doesn't win awards on a regular basis just because we have cookies and big cushy seats. If that were the case, then the airline would have failed when:

1. When Skyway began service with 1900s in 1989.
2. When Skyway brought in the 328JET in 1998, replacing the DC-9 on some routes.
3. When Midwest dropped complimentary meal service (the fine china, etc.) in 2002ish.
4. When Midwest introduced saver service on the MD-80s in 2003.
5. When Midwest contracted with SkyWest to fly CRJs this year.

So far, that hasn't happened. Obviously, Midwest has been through some tough times financially over the past few years. It's clear that the product they had before just would not work anymore in the current economic climate.

Like any smart company, Midwest is looking for ways to change and evolve their product to better suit the current environment, while still offering a unique product.

Regardless how the seats are arranged, there are still many aspects to Midwest's product that makes them stand out among the rest, namely the standards of customer service which, so far, have not changed, and aren't likely to anytime soon.

So, if you think Midwest is becoming just like everyone else, suit yourself, and go fly everyone else.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
User avatar
JBo
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 36):
The question is, "at what cost?" Now Signature Service is not guaranteed unless you buy the full-flex fare or are able to purchase an upgrade. They've diluted their product based on what past performance indicated the CASM would have been. There's no guarantee the RASM will actually improve, if they alientate flyers who flew them solely for the guaranteed Signature seating. Midwest's best selling point for fighting off the merger has been their unique brand, which is now diluted.

Your reply came up as I was composing my previous post, so to readers I apologize for double-posting.

As far as the guarantee of Signature Service ... I think we will find out soon what fares will be sold as Signature and what will be sold as Saver. My opinion, as stated above, is that most fares will be sold for Signature service, with the cheapest and most restrictive fares being sold for Saver seating (as well as new cheap fares not previously feasible).

Many people argue that Midwest's unique brand is being diluted. I don't disagree with that, but nonetheless it does not mean that Midwest is becoming "un-unique." Midwest is doing what they can to evolve their product to work in the different industry climate of today, while striving to retain a unique product. Sure, it's different, and it may alienate some passengers, but any sort of change by any company is bound to do that. People tend to dislike change.

However, for what it's worth, I spoke with a regular Midwest Miles Executive frequent flyer this evening about the changes, and he thought they were all great ideas to keep service up and numbers up. I'm fairly certain that many other YX frequent flyers and passengers share a similar sentiment.

Only time will tell if these changes will bring about success.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 35):
Midwest 717's have 17" seats, which are 1" narrower than the airbus 18" seats.

Nope. 21'' wide, which is as much as a typical domestic F class seat.
 
MidEx216
Posts: 547
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:19 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting TedEx (Reply 2):
Or E195s?

I already threw that out there once. The pilot's made jokes of it.
 
sideflare75
Posts: 417
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:30 pm

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 12:34 pm

Tim how dare you copy all of Joe's ideas. Don't you know he invented this two class seating configuration thing?
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 1:45 pm

Quoting JBo (Reply 38):
Seat pitch for the saver rows on the MD-80s are currently 33" and may or may not be more than that when the Sig rows are added to them, and I imagine saver pitch on the 717 will be the same as on the MD-80s.

The Recaro seats that will be used are designed to provide 34" equivalent legroom in the saver arrangement at the same spacing as the standard 32" so some will be 34" and some 35" equivalent. Maybe AirTran should look into the same seats (LOL).
 
F9Animal
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 2:12 pm

Midwest is not going to FL, at least that is the way it looks. I think FL just needs to back off, and let it go. I would be saddened to see YX go that route. YX is determined to succeed on their own. They have a unique product, and plans for their future. So, let them go, and be successful. YX does not need FL, and FL does not need YX. Both companies are so different in so many ways.

And the day FL offers warm cookies, I will be okay with a merger.  Wink
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2322
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 2:26 pm

Frankly, I was glad to hear that they are keeping 40 Signature seats on the 717. I suspected they might go with more like 12-16 premium seats and essentially mimic traditional F/Y carriers as they are doing with the Saver aircraft. I’m an executive-level YX flier and I received a number of surveys over the past 24 months or so asking my likely purchasing preference in various different scenarios. While the aircraft in the survey questions were primarily 737’s and A320’s, some were 717’s. And most of the mixed-class scenarios had just 12-16 premium seats.

For those who believe that Midwest’s edge is only it the 2x2 seating, note that they generally earn a higher fare than their nonstop competition in Saver markets. This in spite of the fact that the competition (except for Frontier) flew traditional F/Y cabins, meaning their average fare include F-priced seats compared to all-Y fares on Midwest. From the most recently-available data, Q3 2006:

MKE-LAS
YX 154.19
NW 141.43

MKE-MCO
YX 125.54
NW 123.70
FL 104.59

MKE-PHX
YX 163.27
HP 198.41

MKE-DEN (some 717 / some M80 in period)
YX 159.03
F9 145.68

Note that Midwest’s average PHX fare was not higher than America West’s in the period. However, Midwest carried a much larger portion of the local market and a much larger number of local-passengers on each flight, while America West carried far more lower-yield connecting traffic;

MKE-PHX round trip
YX 364 flights with an average of 81.5 locals and 20.6 connects per trip
HP 359 flights with an average of 30.9 locals and 76.0 connects per trip


Remember all these comparisons are markets where Midwest had flown for years with 2x2 and then switched in 2003 to traditional all-coach 2x3 cloth seats (except for DEN which has has seen 2x2 and 2x3 mixed service). Most travelers in these markets were well familiar with these being 2x3 Saver aircraft, and yet Midwest still garnered a higher fare, more local passengers, or in most cases both. (Midwest had the top market share in each of these exmaples, too)

The addition of 2x2 seats to Saver will help by offering frequent business travelers the ability to upgrade out of coach, something they had to fly the competiton to do until now. And in 717 markets, 40 premium seats is likely nearly always enough to hold the business traveler load.

And speaking of the business-travelers and the 717, a key item overlooked so far is that on the 717 the premium seats would be given to high-fare-bucket passengers and to those who pay an upgrade fee. Most likely the upgrade will also be offered by redeeming miles and/or with compementary upgrades for frequent fliers. What it is NOT is by paying an F-class or a C-class fare. **This is a critical difference.** Most companies prohibit employees from buying anything but coach tickets when flying domestic. So Midwest's bread-and-butter frequent business travelers would be shut out of the front cabin unless they used miles or got a complementary upgrade...neither of which brings the company more reveue. With the system Midwest announced, it allows travelers to get the premium seating by paying a small upgrade fee...either out of pocker or expensible *which does not viloate the company travel policy of coach-class fares*. It also encourages business travelers to book higher coach fare classes to get the premium seating...again, something which does not violate the common prohibition to booking F or C-class fares. Yes, many companies have policies to encourage travelers to seek out the lowest fare, frequent travelers can easily do things like purposely miss a booking window or find need for a refundable fare to get the premium seating.

Midwest's stance to offer a large premium cabin (40.4% of seats) that is *not* sold as first or busines-class fare levels will avoid pricing frequent business travelers out of the premium seats *and* will lend itself to a increased revenue from the frequent traveler than the traditional premium-seating model that most conventional airlines use. And from the price-sensitive lesiure traveler, there are more seats for them...the only way to really get more revenue from them.
 
n917me
Posts: 492
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 9:18 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting Cloudboy (Reply 35):
If MidWest's ace was improved service, how is this going to work for the average flyer? You can't just cater to one or two frequent fliers - you need to cater to a whole market. They have essentially crippled their benefit - it's not like they offer any other service amenities that other airlines do not, except for the cookies. And quite frankly three cookies is not enough to make me spend more to fly their airline.

OK, Midwest is actually catering to the WHOLE market, giving the passengers who want to travel, but are cheap, more of an option while giving the business passenger the same choice between signature or saver seating. How is adding 2x3 seating catering to one or two frequent fliers? Face it, times and the economy have changed and so must Midwest. The service, reputation sets Midwest above most.... and it is only two cookies.
 
rumorboy
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 1:06 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Wed May 30, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 44):
Maybe AirTran should look into the same seats (LOL).

Airtran already uses Recaro seats.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Thu May 31, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Reply 47):
Airtran already uses Recaro seats.

Not the ones Midwest will be using...And certainly not the same pitch... Sorry.

[Edited 2007-05-30 18:29:59]
 
rumorboy
Posts: 295
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2002 1:06 am

RE: YX Conference Call Today Regarding Strategic Plan

Thu May 31, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 48):
Not the ones Midwest will be using...And certainly not the same pitch... Sorry

Still won't save them.....sorry

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