manni
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Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 2:11 pm

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=9063

Some interesting snippets...

He said Airbus has 100 firm orders for the original-design A350 and that customers must either cancel or transfer to XWBs by year end. "At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

He said Airbus is "very close" to finalizing an MOU with Singapore Airlines for an XWB order, which was disclosed previously (ATWOnline, Feb. 8), and that there are "other [agreements] that haven't been announced."
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kaitak
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 4:17 pm

Surely, if the original aircraft is not on offer anymore, then all of these "orders" are void anyway.

Theoretically, the A350XWB is more expensive than the original A350 (which was really just a warmed over A330), in practice - given the discounts being offered by Airbus for the new A350XWB, the airlines will probably end up not having to pay much - if any - more?
 
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moo
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
Surely, if the original aircraft is not on offer anymore, then all of these "orders" are void anyway.

They aren't void until the moment Airbus misses the first delivery date specified in the contract, and even then we don't know the wording of the contract.

There was a big thread on this a few weeks back if you are interested.

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
He said Airbus is "very close" to finalizing an MOU with Singapore Airlines for an XWB order, which was disclosed previously (ATWOnline, Feb. 8), and that there are "other [agreements] that haven't been announced."

Another MoU for SIA? Interesting, but I hope this time a firm order closely follows it!
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 5:01 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
100 firm orders for the original-design A350

OK, if my memory hasn't let me down we have...

Air Europa 10
Bangkok 6
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5
TAM 10
TAP 10
US 20
Yemenia 6

(I've taken out Finnair, SQ and Qatar.)

ALFACO 12
CIT 5
GECAS 10
ILFC 16

That's 113 though I believe that not all of these were firmed up.

So which ones morph into XWB orders? TAP, for sure. TAM, probably. Kingfisher seems likely. US is rumoured to be 'on'. And I'm sure leasing companies will be there.

What about the others?
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Intersting given the US Airways rumours, that they are about to sign for the 787. Those rumours are contradictary anyway.

I also found it interesting that they are still negotiating with GE. I actually don't understand what is holding GE up for the
-800 and -900, as they already signed up for the previous -800 and -900. The reason for their hesitation on the -1000 is well known by now. But anyway a nice win for RR on the QR contract. Aren't the a380 of QR powered by EA? Any chance they will cancel that and go with RR for commonality?
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 5:23 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
I actually don't understand what is holding GE up for the -800 and -900, as they already signed up for the previous -800 and -900.

Well, the XWB is a bigger plane and GE need to redesign the GEnx accordingly. They must be deciding whether or not it'll be worth it. My guess is that it will be (so they will get on board) but only powering two (or one?!) of the three models puts them at an immediate disadvantage (see the QR RR order) so they have to factor that in too.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
Aren't the a380 of QR powered by EA?

No. They haven't made an engine selection yet.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
Any chance they will cancel that and go with RR for commonality?

N/A. But I daresay an order for RR on the A350 won't hurt Derby's chances of getting on the A380 too.  Smile
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 5:56 pm

Leahy : "We have better range, better fuel consumption, a wider cabin, bigger windows — all the items where you say look at the competition, we can do better on this,"

An advance of being second I guess.

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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 5:57 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Very interesting given the situation at US. scratchchin 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
bigger windows

Bigger than the 787 or than the 777?

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
a wider cabin

I assume since he included this in his quote he means the 787? It'll be interesting to see the a350 windows then!
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 8:32 pm

The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide. In this image you can just see how wide Airbus want them to be on the XWB.
Big version: Width: 450 Height: 161 File size: 14kb
3-3-3 seating on the A350XWB
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
3-3-3 seating on the A350XWB

Not sure I go along with the colours... (With all due respect to my Irish friend who posted it!)

And not sure you'd get much AVOD (or even a folding tray!) in those seats!

But check out those windows! Not quite Vickers Viscount but wow!
 
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moo
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
And not sure you'd get much AVOD (or even a folding tray!) in those seats!

The first question that came to my mind on viewing that picture was 'so, wheres the life jackets?', and the second one was 'which designer is stuck in the 60s?!'  Smile
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 11):
'which designer is stuck in the 60s?!'

Haven't you heard? Retro is in!  smile 
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shamrock350
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 8:50 pm

I'm not a big fan of the colours myself the green would suit Aer Lingus (maybe EI is an unannounced agreement) but those pillows, looks more like giant marshmallows  

The airlines can change the seats but those windows are there to stay, it makes no difference to airlines buying it but as passengers it's good to see.


[Edited 2007-05-31 13:51:32]
 
manni
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
OK, if my memory hasn't let me down we have...

Air Europa 10
Bangkok 6
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5
TAM 10
TAP 10
US 20
Yemenia 6

(I've taken out Finnair, SQ and Qatar.)

ALFACO 12
CIT 5
GECAS 10
ILFC 16

That's 113 though I believe that not all of these were firmed up.

I believe there are 93 more orders for previous A350 version that have been firmed up but haven't been converted to the A350XWB. Additionally there are 164 pending orders for all versions combined. Here are the firm orders for previous versions...

TAP (A358) x 8, (A359) x 4
TAM (A359) x 10
US Airways (A358) x 20
Kingfisher (A358) x 5
Air Europa (A358) x 10
ALAFCO (A358) x 12
CIT (A358) x 5
Eurofly (A358) x 3
ILFC (A358) x 8, (A359) x 8

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
So which ones morph into XWB orders? TAP, for sure. TAM, probably. Kingfisher seems likely. US is rumoured to be 'on'. And I'm sure leasing companies will be there.

What about the others?

Air Europa has been offered 787s, a huge topic on that has appeared here at that time, but I suppose all of the airlines I listed have been offered 787 at some point. Eurofly is the other airline you didn't mention. Looking at the list I can understand why Mr. Leahy said "At this point it looks like they'll all be converted".

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):
Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Very interesting given the situation at US.

If US Airways has already decided and is just waiting for the right time to announce it, Mr. Leahy's quote seems very telling indeed.
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 9:44 pm

Is this one of those sensational deals just to make the program impressive or is it a real order ? Where is Qatar going to fly so many A350's. Last years they ordered 20 777 plus all their A330's, so Qatar is really in expansion mode. The only old planes are the A330's. They have some A340-600 too, I know they are flying Washington DC using an A346 but to JFK they are flying an A330 via Geneva, why? JFK should be nonstop, it sounds like the IAD flight is just for Qatar's diplomatic corp.
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide. In this image you can just see how wide Airbus want them to be on the XWB.

A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777. They are however a couple of inches wider than on the 777, ence the "bigger" window. So how much wider or longer will the XWB's windows be? And does it really matter?
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
So how much wider or longer will the XWB's windows be? And does it really matter?

Well I like to stare.. I think the MD11 windows are also large & at the right height on top of that.
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
The only old planes are the A330's.

Yeah, really 'old'. Why, the oldest is nearly 5!

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
They have some A340-600 too

Which are barely a year old!

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
Where is Qatar going to fly so many A350's

Where do Delta (to pick an airline more or less at random) fly 100+ 767s? Qatar have more of the world's population within flying range of Doha than Delta do from Atlanta.
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 10:11 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
Surely, if the original aircraft is not on offer anymore, then all of these "orders" are void anyway.

Theoretically, the A350XWB is more expensive than the original A350 (which was really just a warmed over A330), in practice - given the discounts being offered by Airbus for the new A350XWB, the airlines will probably end up not having to pay much - if any - more?

The A350XWB is really, not theoretically, costwise much more expensive. If sold at the original price, this imply a huge discount. And do you think new customers will accept, at least in the initial 1 or 2 yeas, to pay much more then the original ones ??

And this, being the financial situation as we see today, would not help in the future !

aminobwana
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777.

Can you post the thread? I read a few months back someplace on line that the 787 windows were 18" x 10.5" which is about three inches longer than the 777 window. So what's the measurement of the 787 and 350 and 777 windows?
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"



Quoting Scbriml (Reply 7):
Very interesting given the situation at US.

I keep my fingers crossed for US staying with A350 !!!!!
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 2):
Another MoU for SIA? Interesting, but I hope this time a firm order closely follows it!

I think he is referring to the existing one, so not an additional order from SIA.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 4):
Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
"At this point it looks like they'll all be converted,"

Interesting given the US Airways rumours, that they are about to sign for the 787. Those rumours are contradictary anyway.

The US rumors are floating from one to the other and back again. I think its best to treat the US rumors as we did the SU rumors (ie lightly, until something is actually announced).

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 15):
Is this one of those sensational deals just to make the program impressive or is it a real order ?

Is that a rhetorical question? I cant think of a suitable answer for it  Wink

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
And do you think new customers will accept, at least in the initial 1 or 2 yeas, to pay much more then the original ones ??

While its impossible to comment without seeing contracts, the existing customers have a choice to either convert or move on. Talk is cheap, airlines can easily demand the original price, but they cant easily receive the original price.

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777.

Can you post the thread? I read a few months back someplace on line that the 787 windows were 18" x 10.5" which is about three inches longer than the 777 window.

Weren't they advertised as being 50% larger than existing windows? The production version does indeed appear to have smaller windows than the ones shown in publicity images.
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 11:14 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
The A350XWB is really, not theoretically, costwise much more expensive. If sold at the original price, this imply a huge discount.

Ah, didn't take you long to show up in this thread as well. Since you've made this claim, time for some facts:

- What is the cost of one original design A350?
- What is the cost of one A350XWB?
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Manni (Thread starter):
customers must either cancel or transfer to XWBs by year end

Wow, that's interesting. Looks like they've given existing customers an ultimatum. This certainly shows confidence, and regardless of which way it goes, it will be fabulous if they can remove the original A350 liability from their books and start 2008 fresh, clean from the extraordinary charges related A380 compensation and the A350 liability!

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide

I don't really get the benefit of big windows. Sure, as a passenger it will be nice, but doesn't it add additional weight? I'd think the window material is significantly heavier than the fuselage?
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semobeila
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 19):
The A350XWB is really, not theoretically, costwise much more expensive. If sold at the original price, this imply a huge discount. And do you think new customers will accept, at least in the initial 1 or 2 yeas, to pay much more then the original ones ??

And this, being the financial situation as we see today, would not help in the future !

Well, that still does not mean Airbus isn't earning money with selling the A350XWB at original A350 prices...
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
So how much wider or longer will the XWB's windows be? And does it really matter?



Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 24):
don't really get the benefit of big windows. Sure, as a passenger it will be nice, but doesn't it add additional weight? I'd think the window material is significantly heavier than the fuselage?

Airbus haven't said how big the windows will be however, I have a small booklet about the A350XWB which says, "Panoramic windows, widest in the industry" to an airline considering the A350 or 787 I doubt they really care but both Airbus and Boeing have been talking about big windows and it doesn't all come down to the passenger view out of them but its really about how much natural light comes into the cabin. Larger windows mean more natural light which id good for the passengers experience which airline do think about. It may not be as important as fuel consumption or how heavy the aircraft is but it is seen as being important by Airbus and Boeing and in the development of new aircraft.
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Thu May 31, 2007 11:47 pm

When Leahy was in India on Kingfisher's invite he mentioned that Kingfisher (IT) would switch their A358 orders over to the XWB.
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
Leahy : "We have better range, better fuel consumption, a wider cabin, bigger windows ?all the items where you say look at the competition, we can do better on this,"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the A350 still narrower than the B777, the plane it's really competing with?

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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 28):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the A350 still narrower than the B777, the plane it's really competing with?

It competes with both, as well as replacing the A330 and A340 - a real "Jack of all Trades" plane.
 
EA772LR
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:18 am

I absolutely love the way the A350XWB looks. I hope they stick to that look. However, is Airbus planning on sticking with their composite panels or will they be going for the composite barrels? I have read many conflicting pieces of information here lately. I thought that Boeing researched the concept of composite panels and found it to be much less efficient than barrels??

IIRC, wasn't US in serious talks with Boeing for the 787 recently??
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting PM (Reply 3):

ALFACO 12

Didn't they quietly dropped A350 and ordered 787 instead?
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Bobski
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:22 am

Just so I understand. There are 100 orders roughly for the original A350 that Airbus expect to be converted to the XWB. With QT's order for 80 on top, does this mean the orderbook (potentially) stands at 180+?

That's not bad. Certainly not as good as the 787's sales, but not bad...
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bringiton
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 28):
"We have better range, better fuel consumption, a wider cabin, bigger windows ?all the items where you say look at the competition, we can do better on this,"

Well , i have tried asking this question before but no one replied . Does the MTOW and/or PAX of the A350-800 more in the league of the 788 then it is in the league of the 789 . Because if it is more closer to the 789 then they have not much difference in range , the Seat count IIRC is more for the 789 aswell .

Please someone clarify this .
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 30):
However, is Airbus planning on sticking with their composite panels or will they be going for the composite barrels?

There have been several rumours that Airbus would switch to barrels (all seeming to originate at ATW). As recently as yesterday, this was denied by John Leahy.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 30):
I thought that Boeing researched the concept of composite panels and found it to be much less efficient than barrels??

That was indeed Boeing's conclusion. Airbus thinks differently. Some think Airbus "can't do" barrels, Airbus seems to think it doesn't need to.

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 30):
IIRC, wasn't US in serious talks with Boeing for the 787 recently??

I would assume that US has been in serious talks with both Airbus and Boeing. If US gets A350XWBs for the price they were offered original A350s, then that would be a very good deal to walk away from. Hopefully, US's decision will be announced at Paris in less than three weeks.
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
And does it really matter?

In my view, no. Wing mounted camera's could supply a superior panorama via the seat back video system.
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
"We have better range, better fuel consumption, a wider cabin, bigger windows — all the items where you say look at the competition, we can do better on this,"

I notice "better, lower cost maintenance" was not mentioned. An advantage of the barrel approach to construction.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
An advance of being second I guess.

An advantage when your final design specs are still over a year away.  Wink
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cygnuschicago
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 33):
the A350-800 more in the league of the 788 then it is in the league of the 789

The A358 is the equivalent of the 789.

A358: 270 - 312 PAX; 540,000 lbs MTOW; 8,500 nm
789: 250 - 290 PAX; 540,000 lbs MTOW; 8,500 nm

Those are the figures I have. Granted, they may be out of date by now for both aircraft.
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bringiton
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:55 am

According to WIKI ( i know not totally reliable ) 787-9 seats 263 in 3 class , whereas the 350-8 seats 270 . Both fly equal distance , and both have same MTOW . So where is the dramatic difference?
 
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 6):
Leahy : "We have better range, better fuel consumption, a wider cabin, bigger windows � all the items where you say look at the competition, we can do better on this,"

This has to be examined, not just accepted on face value. From what I have learned on other threads in Tech/Ops and here, a longer wing gives greater efficiency on long range routes but not on shorter ones. This may be the difference here on fuel consumption; and as a vast majority of routes are relatively short it looks like Boeing has optimized for those while Airbus is optimized for extreme range. I'm sure all the airlines have analysts that will see this, and may be one reason why the A350 is not getting more sales, as well as the maintenance issue.
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:08 am

One thing that John Leahy lacks is respect for the competition and if you don't have respect for the competition you get into trouble. It's already happened at Airbus, I think with the way he talks, it'll happen again.
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:28 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 40):
One thing that John Leahy lacks is respect for the competition and if you don't have respect for the competition you get into trouble. It's already happened at Airbus, I think with the way he talks, it'll happen again.

Get over yourself - do you realise how pompous that sounds?

He's a salesman - thats what he does. Just because he isnt a Boeing cheerleader like you doesnt mean he is a complete buffoon - and FYI i'll be he has A GREAT DEAL of respect for what he's up against, its just that he thinks he's got a product that beats it, and he should say so.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
manni
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 31):
Didn't they quietly dropped A350 and ordered 787 instead?

No, they didn't. Or atleast no reliable source ever wrote or mentioned that. Only the 'rumour makers' on this and other forums speculated that this might happen.

Quoting Bobski (Reply 32):
There are 100 orders roughly for the original A350 that Airbus expect to be converted to the XWB. With QT's order for 80 on top, does this mean the orderbook (potentially) stands at 180+?

It depends what you're willing to include.

There are currently 13 firm A350XWB orders (AY and Pegasus Aviation)
There are 93 firm orders for previous version ( airlines and lessors are listed in previous posts)
There are 164 pending orders for all A350 versions (including the 80 for QR, 20 for SQ, 20 for CAAC, 22 for SU, 10 for Gecas, 6 for Yemenia and 6 for Bangkok Air)

That's a total of 270 pending and firm orders for all A350 versions and all A350XWB versions. Atleast, these are the ones that have been announced. It appears that there's more to be announced soon (according to the article I posted in the topic starter)
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airbazar
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 16):
A few days ago there was a thread here that showed the 787 windows are exactly the same height as the 777.

Can you post the thread? I read a few months back someplace on line that the 787 windows were 18" x 10.5" which is about three inches longer than the 777 window. So what's the measurement of the 787 and 350 and 777 windows?

Here it is. See reply 37:
787 Assembly Floor Pictures http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3419009/1/#1
 
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Revelation
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 9):
The windows are expect to be large, not long like the 787 but wide. In this image you can just see how wide Airbus want them to be on the XWB.

Yes, and at this point in the design phase, the 787 had the pointy nose and the shark fin tail. You've seen what marketing wants, let's see what engineering delivers!  Smile
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shamrock350
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:51 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
Yes, and at this point in the design phase, the 787 had the pointy nose and the shark fin tail. You've seen what marketing wants, let's see what engineering delivers!

Totally agree but if Boeing can keep keep the windows I should hope Airbus can. It wont sway airlines to order the A350 but it's just an added bonus as it is to the 787.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 38):
According to WIKI ( i know not totally reliable ) 787-9 seats 263 in 3 class , whereas the 350-8 seats 270 . Both fly equal distance , and both have same MTOW . So where is the dramatic difference?

The 787-9 seat count of 263 assumes 2+4+2 in coach, with 3+3+3 the -9 seats 280 with less range (about 7,000 vs. 8,500 with 263). The 350-8 you give with 270 assumes 3+3+3. In other words, the 350-8 has a slight advantage in the 3+3+3 where the 787-9 may have a slight advantage in terms of empty weight in 2+4+2 as they will both seat about the same number of pax, but the A350's wider tube will likely carry more weight. In a nut shell, if a carrier wants to provide wider seats, the 787 has better balance. If 3+3+3 is the game with a 17-17.5" seat, the 350 has better balance.

Getting real nitpicky.. In a 3+3+3 the 350 will be better comfort wise than the 787 because the seat will be a smidge wider. In 2+4+2 the 350 boasts 19.25" wide seats which will probably be considered over kill. On the other hand, the 787 in a 2+4+2 has a 21.5" aisle, or 22.5 in 3+2+3 which in both cases could be reduced to as much as 18" as used 3+3+3. If you do that, the 787's 2+4+2 seats can be 19.25" wide in like the 350 or 19.5" in 3+2+3 with an 18" aisle. Of course, we all know the airlines will screw us and rarely give us that much of a comfort option.

[Edited 2007-05-31 19:04:55]
 
kaitak
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:57 am

Quoting PM (Reply 3):
ALFACO 12
CIT 5
GECAS 10
ILFC 16

These, as I understand from Manni's post above, are for the OLD A350; has any lessor firmed up orders for the NEW A350 (XWB)? I thought ALAFCO had?

I think this actually gives Boeing a significant advantage, as many airlines may wish to choose the flexibility of buying some new aircraft (of a particular type) and leasing others. Airlines can do this with the 787, but not - it seems - with the A350, or at least not to the same extent?

Even though manufacturers would obviously prefer if airlines bought more acft (rather than leased them), they can work with the likes of ILFC (or whoever else) to put together a package for a particular airline.
 
scott0305
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:00 am

Slightly off topic but I read on Airbus' website that the 350XWB wing sweep will be 35 degrees. That is more then even the 380 at 33.5 and way more than the 330 at 31.1. Why the increase in sweep versus the current thinking. How does this stack up versus the 787/777?
 
A342
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RE: Mr. Leahy On The A350XWB, SQ And Others

Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 46):
If 3+3+3 is the game with a 17-17.5" seat, the 350 has better balance.

I assume you mean an 18' seat, because the 787 has 17.2' in 3-3-3, and the A350XWB is wider.
Exceptions confirm the rule.

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