ishky15
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue May 30, 2000 12:02 am

How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sat Aug 05, 2000 9:45 am

Here are two sample flights between Newark and Brazil:


EWR-GIG 1005 pm 830am
GIG-EWR 840pm 510am

EWR-GRU 1000pm 830am
GRU-EWR 840pm 515am

It appears that it takes up two aircraft just to operate one daily flight to Brazil. But why? Why does the aircraft only fly at night? What does it do the whole day down in Brazil till it takes off?

I dont get it!
 
exPratt
Posts: 306
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2000 6:15 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sat Aug 05, 2000 11:15 am

It is two different flights to two different cities. And not only is CO going from EWR to both GIG and GRU, CO also goes to both cities from IAH. And it is not just CO doing it, but UA and AA have multiple flights from multiple cities. (DL does ATL-GRU-GIG, and then reverses it GIG-GRU-ATL.) Why do they do it? Because they are filling the seats that means they are making money. Most of the North American and European international flights to Brazil arrive in the early morning hours and depart in the evening. After the passengers disembark, the planes are towed to a remote area on the airport where they sit until just before the scheduled time of departure when they are towed back to the gate for loading. The crews that flew the plane in are the same ones that take it out. So the planes have to be on the ground long enough to meet the crew's rest requirements.
 
ishky15
Posts: 706
Joined: Tue May 30, 2000 12:02 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sat Aug 05, 2000 11:55 am

Check your sources- CO doesn't fly IAH-GIG, and they only fly to GRU from there only four days a week. You still din't really answer my question.


Now, can I PLEASE get some real answers?
 
klwright69
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sun Aug 06, 2000 2:12 am

When EWR-GIG first started it flew all night there and then back to EWR during the next day. People complained because they didn't want to take a daylight flight to the states. So CO changed it to an all nighter like the one south bound. SO customer preference plays a big part. The daylight flight north bound from Brazil was not successful. Most flights to Europe fly all night and the plane turns around and flies back that morning or early afternoon. The crew rests for 24 hours and flies the flight back the FOLLOWING day. That schedule makes sense because with the time change a west bound transatlantic flight lands only a couple hours after it departs Europe. With South America there aren't so many hours in time change. Therefore if the flight turned around and returned to the states that day you'd land many hours after you take off unlike flights westbound from Europe back to the states. So you'd be consuming the entire daytime on a plane. Maybe customers in that market don't want that. I mean during that day you could be conducting business. That's what CO's experience was.

Even though I'm not sure about this one, I don't know if the same crew would actually fly the plane back to the states that very same night of the morning they arrive. Let's think about it. That mean being up all night working two nights in a row, 9 hours a night. That seems a little extreme. After a 9 hour flight, if you only have 12 hours rest, by the time you passed customs and got to the hotel, you'd better sleep WELL for exactly 8 hours because at the end if that time you're going to need to get ready for the flight that night, without even having any time for eating. If you travel a lot and cross time zones you know that sleeping well in strange places all the time isn't easy. As I said I might be wrong, but I'd be shocked if the same crew flew back that night. I think only 12 hours rest for a nine hour flight is a little short. Besides if the flight were late arriving , the returning flight later that night would have to be delayed do the crew could get their required rest. So there's no flexibility in that respect.

Crew scheduling probably isn't the reason for using two aircraft to south american cities. It's probably more consumer prefenence. As I said flights back to the states from Europe use crews that have had 24 hours rest in Europe. The plane doesn't just sit at the airport in Europe waiting for the crew to finish resting. The plane flies back using a fresh crew. Flying all night the night before then again that next night, you probably won't be too rested. I expect the crews on these south american flights rest 36 hours and fly back the following night.

I hope this helps.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sun Aug 06, 2000 2:54 am

If this aircraft youre talking about is Continental, maybe it departs to IAH and back, and then flies to EWR?


-TWA902fly
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
klwright69
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sun Aug 06, 2000 3:22 am

No, that's not possible. The IAH-GRU flight is an all nighter in both directions as well, like most flights to that part of the world.

Besides logistically what you suggested would be impossible because it is a long flight in both directions and there is not a huge difference in times zones like there is with Europe. I mean if an a/c left GRU at 10 in the morning (because the EWR flight arrives around 8 or so) to go to IAH, it would get there late afternoon or early evening. Then if it turned around and flew back to GRU from IAH it would arrive in the wee hours of the morning. Therefore it would be impossible to be in GRU in time to leave at 8 pm or so to fly back to EWR.

See what I mean?
 
bacardi182
Posts: 1029
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2000 2:47 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sun Aug 06, 2000 4:54 am

i am confused about this whole post but i may be able to help. the reason that 2 planes are needed is because one plane departs at night to go to brazil while another plane departs at night from brazil to the states. if only one plane was used, then there would only be 4 flights a week from the states and 3 flights a week from brazil
 
klwright69
Posts: 2354
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: How Come Two A/c Have To Be Utilised To Brazil?

Sun Aug 06, 2000 9:54 am

Bacardi182, you summed it up perfectly. However TWA902fly and Ishky15 seemed to request more detailed explanations.

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