trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:08 am

Hi guys

This morning at around 0850 fellow netter Alex spotted a 747 overflying Manchester and dumping fuel from one wing tip. It was a very clear day, and looked like a BA 747. However once getting into work, there were no diverts today, so it could not of been BA. There is a picture, but will not post it here as its not the best quality, and will let alex do that himself

Anyone hazard a guess as to what it is

Dan
Where does the time go???
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:18 am

Are you sure it was fuel...?? Normally fuel is dumped out of both tanks at the same time. Could have been just condensation......

[Edited 2007-05-31 23:20:00]
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trekster
Posts: 4319
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:23 am

From one wing, and just the tip, not the engine or anywhere else

PM me your address and will email the picture
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ACDC8
Posts: 7270
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:43 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 2):
PM me your address and will email the picture

Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.
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MCOflyer
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.

Please do so.

Hunter
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jamesbaldwyn
Posts: 747
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:04 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):
Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.

Me too.

Thanks
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4):
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 3):

Could you post the pic? Would be interesting to see.

Please do so.

and its kind of hard to tell without the pic.
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OPNLguy
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:19 am

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/OPNLguy/DSC00469.jpg
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
raventom
Posts: 256
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:03 am

Interesting... whereabouts over Manchester?
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PYP757
Posts: 120
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:08 am

Isn't it a bit strange that a plane would be allowed to dump fuel so close to a major city? I don't know anything about rules regulating fuel dumping, but I always thought this would be done over water or less populated areas.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting PYP757 (Reply 9):
Isn't it a bit strange that a plane would be allowed to dump fuel so close to a major city? I don't know anything about rules regulating fuel dumping, but I always thought this would be done over water or less populated areas.

The fuel will evaporate well before it would reach the ground.
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Daleaholic
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:13 am

Could have been the Great Wall cargo? That has the blue painted belly. Seems rather high though for the great wall to be descending or having just taken off.

Presuming it was a BA aircraft... Is it possible that the aircraft was 'too' heavy and was struggling to climb (if heading North) or would be descending too quickly? Hence the fuel dump?

Just my opinions and ideas.
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
spacecadet
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
Presuming it was a BA aircraft... Is it possible that the aircraft was 'too' heavy and was struggling to climb (if heading North) or would be descending too quickly? Hence the fuel dump?

eh? Pilots aren't guesstimating their fuel and payloads. No plane takes off with too much fuel to fly. For one thing, it'd crash just after takeoff - that's when margins are slimmest, not after gaining speed and altitude. Anyway, fuel and payload are an exact science - they're fairly simple calculations, and are usually handled these days by the FMC (I don't know what model 747 this is, so not sure if it has an engineer or not).

It would be a huge waste of money - not to mention a big environmental no-no - for pilots to be taking off thinking "maybe we've got too much fuel, but eh, we'll just dump some if we have to." Ensuring the proper fuel load and takeoff weight is SOP at every airline (cargo and pax) before taxi; it has to be, for safety reasons.

btw, UA also has blue bellies on their 747 (old c/s). Not sure who else does.
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Daleaholic
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 12):
Pilots aren't guesstimating their fuel and payloads. No plane takes off with too much fuel to fly. For one thing, it'd crash just after takeoff - that's when margins are slimmest, not after gaining speed and altitude. Anyway, fuel and payload are an exact science - they're fairly simple calculations, and are usually handled these days by the FMC (I don't know what model 747 this is, so not sure if it has an engineer or not).

Oh please, I'm no pilot or engineer, I'm simply suggesting logical explanations. I'm not saying that Pilots estimate their fuel loads. I was merely imagining if they had strong tailwinds and had an extremely quick crossing. Like I said in my post... They were my opinions and ideas, I wasn't asking for an explanation of a transatlantic flight  Yeah sure
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:19 am

It certainly looks like a fuel dump. Any atmospheric phenomenon regarding engines/flaps/etc. would most likely be happinging on both sides of the aircraft.

I'm not 100% sure though, as it doesn't make sense that the aircraft would only dump fuel from on side of the plane.

Possibly could be an engine out?

Anyway, dumping fuel at altitude is not dangerous. It does not fall down like rain fellas. Because the aircraft travels at such high speeds, the biggest droplets would be a mere mist. Secondly, it's fuel, like alcohol, it evaporates rather quickly.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:20 am

If we could figure out what airline, or even what airport the flight departed from, with a little research (of which I'm not willing to do, but someone might) you will find your answer, or at least part of it.

UAL
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:49 am

It was not BA, checked that when got to work
It was over central Manchester, I heard the plane,from my apartment, and alex was outside the building near enough.

It could of been the cargo airline, but have looked at Ringway and not seen anything noted, and im sure they dont fly around 0850??

Can anyone help
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GoingAround
Posts: 121
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:28 pm

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:19 am

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0099894/M/

I understand this photo was taken in the UK, and so the humidity would not be such a factor but could this be a cause?

This is the only thing I can think of that would result in fuel being dumped from one wing only?  Yeah sure

Alex
 
ronglimeng
Posts: 562
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RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:45 am

The last time I was on a trip, we took off from Tokyo, headed for Detroit. They dumped fuel (I think that's what was going on - see photo) for about 3 minutes after reaching the initial cruising altitude. I couldn't figure that out and was worried for awhile. We just kept on going though and nothing was said.


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Dumping Fuel
 
sevenforeseven
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:59 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:08 am

What you are seeing on the JAL B747 is fuel leaving the wing surge tanks. Fuel which has spilled into the surge tannks is nothing but that. REST ASSURED THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!

[Edited 2007-06-01 23:10:13]
 
sevenforeseven
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:59 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:14 am

Forgot to say the fuel jettision outlets are way inboard from the wing tips. PLEASE PLEASE MORE INTERESTING AND FACTUAL INFORMATION NOT JUST "HEY LOOK WHAT I SAW."
 
OPNLguy
Posts: 11191
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 1999 11:29 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 19):
What you are seeing on the JAL B747 is fuel leaving the wing surge tanks. Fuel which has spilled into the surge tanks is nothing but that. REST ASSURED THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT!!!!

Sounds reasonable. Sometimes fuelers don't fuel the wing tanks exactly equally, and the aircraft flight manual (AFM) permits a certain amount of lateral fuel imbalance. Accordingly, it's possible that only one tank could be be affected, and not both as some might expect.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
GEnxPower
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:43 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting Sevenforeseven (Reply 19):
What you are seeing on the JAL B747 is fuel leaving the wing surge tanks. Fuel which has spilled into the surge tannks is nothing but that

JAL? Where did you get that from? If I have to guess it would be NWA's 747 doing NRT-DTW leg. I don't recall JAL going to Detroit on regular scheduled service, at least not in the last 8-9 years. Please, factual information, not just "hey, look what I assumed"...
 
runga08
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 1:05 pm

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:35 am

MD80's and 737-3, 4, 5 series don't have surge tanks, so when the VTO valve opens to release pressure, it spills through the vents during push back, take off or even flight when the wings are at capacity. This is common in DEN during hot summer days. I'm not too sure about 747's, but I thought the fuel in the surge tanks recirc back to the 1 and 4 tanks... ( we don't get that many 747's in DEN)
 
egnr
Posts: 408
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:31 am

RE: 747 Dumping Fuel Over Manchester

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:53 am

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 12):
UA also has blue bellies on their 747 (old c/s). Not sure who else does


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