NYC777
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62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:31 am

Boeing just released their monthly order and delivery update.

The 62 737s that Boeing booked a UFO order last month was one order for 62 x 739ERs!

I'm willing to bet it's for either US or AA.

Also the 11 777 UFO break dowwn as follows:

8 x 77W
2 x 77W
1 x 777F
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LAXintl
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:36 am

If its US then there should be likewise an UFO order for ~20 787s as the bids were linked.
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Lumberton
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:37 am

The number would correlate to what I've read in the past that US is seeking, but I don't know why they'd mix their fleet. They are a very, very loyal Airbus customer. Just doesn't sound right--not saying that you couldn't be right--but I'd have to see Doug Parker saying it's so, and the US press release, before I'd believe it!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
whappeh
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
If its US then there should be likewise an UFO order for ~20 787s as the bids were linked.

Could be waiting till Paris to announce?
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Oykie
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
The 62 737s that Boeing booked a UFO order last month was one order for 62 x 739ERs!

WOW! This is really exiting news!!! Not only does it give the 739ER more momentum in the market, but it shows that it was a good decision to launch this plane! With this order I believe the total order number passed 100 units for the 739ER. It will be very interesting to see what company is behind this deal.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 4):
With this order I believe the total order number passed 100 units for the 739ER.

This order takes the -900ER to 169 orders, so the 100 order threshold had already been reached.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I'm willing to bet it's for either US or AA.

 checkmark 

And I'm leaning more towards US, because they're 739s, and because we keep hearing more about an upcoming order.

I think AA will probably go for 737-7s and 738s, but not now. Later.

Just my thoughts.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:58 am

Will be interesting for whom this order is, guess we'll see in Paris.

As an aside, I just hopped over to boeing.com to check total orders for the 787 and 737 and guess what, the 737 now stands at exactly 7,000 orders Big grin .
 
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STT757
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:01 am

Wow, I have a feeling this is for AA.
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LAXintl
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:03 am

In one of the most recent US Crew News, Doug Parker gave a detailed pro's/con's discussion regarding the Airbus vs Boeing bake off.

For starters the planned order would be a linked for both narrow and widebody types. Pricing being offered by the manufacturers is contingent on a 739+787 or 32x+350 combo. It would not make any financial sense to mix and match types as huge discounts on the table would evaporate.

His comments about Boeing included the 739 was quite an impressive aircraft. The 787 would be available for delivery starting in 2010, however a 787 order would ultimately require more airframes to replace both the 762 and A330 fleets versus A350s which could be operated in conjunction for A330s for several years. A Boeing order could also keep manufacturers on their toes in the future ensuring US does not become reliant on Airbus sole source supplier.

For Airbus his comments covered the fact that obviously more A32X would further add to scale of economies due parts, training, crews etc are already in place for the model. Airbus was allowing US to keep its original A350 pricing which represents a 30% discount off the now even more capable aircraft -- however one that is not yet 100% firm, and one that US would have to wait quite sometime to get.

Doug mentioned they had hoped to make a decision by late April, however the contest was extremely close with the manufacturers continuously providing ever improving terms.

[Edited 2007-06-06 00:06:54]
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ual747-600
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:44 am

How about the 62 739ers for AA? That will free up a bunch of 752s for the rumored Fedex deal.

UAL747-600
 
Lumberton
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 10):
How about the 62 739ers for AA? That will free up a bunch of 752s for the rumored Fedex deal.

Personally, I feel AA is more likely. US will, IMO, stay Airbus.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
travelin man
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:51 am

Quoting UAL747-600 (Reply 10):
How about the 62 739ers for AA? That will free up a bunch of 752s for the rumored Fedex deal.

I too was thinking that this order is for an airline with a lot of 752s to replace. Similar 2 class capacity (180 for 739; 200 for 752). Range is different (3200nm for 739; 3900nm for 752). But for an airline such as AA that doesn't use its 752s like CO does (esp on trans-Atl), the range difference might not be an issue.

This seems like too many 739s for US in my opinion. AA seems like the most likely candidate.

Or maybe we'll all be shocked and WN is "super-sizing".  Wink
 
Danny
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
I too was thinking that this order is for an airline with a lot of 752s to replace. Similar 2 class capacity (180 for 739; 200 for 752). Range is different (3200nm for 739; 3900nm for 752). But for an airline such as AA that doesn't use its 752s like CO does (esp on trans-Atl), the range difference might not be an issue.

This seems like too many 739s for US in my opinion. AA seems like the most likely candidate.

I agree - these look like AA.
 
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American 767
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 11):

Personally, I feel AA is more likely. US will, IMO, stay Airbus.

I think so too. It makes sense for AA to order the 739ER to replace in the long run the 752, the oldest being now 18. I don't see US ordering the 739ER since they are very loyal to Airbus as pointed above and they never showed an interest in any NG737 variant. The only other carrier I see ordering the type in large number in the United States is Delta. Delta also has a large fleet of 752, the oldest being over 20. Continental has the 739ER already but I don't think they would order as many as 62 of those, they seem to be very happy with the 738.

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DeltaAVL
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
This seems like too many 739s for US in my opinion. AA seems like the most likely candidate.

You think so? Add up all of the 737s and oldest A32* series aircraft and look at the numbers.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 14):
I don't see US ordering the 739ER since they are very loyal to Airbus as pointed above and they never showed an interest in any NG737 variant.

Really? See below:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9):
His comments about Boeing included the 739 was quite an impressive aircraft.

Sounds like interest to me.

As far as the loyalty to Airbus goes - why? What reason does US have to stay loyal to one manufacturer? The debt to Airbus has been paid.

I'm still sticking with US on this one.
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travelin man
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 14):
The only other carrier I see ordering the type in large number in the United States is Delta. Delta also has a large fleet of 752, the oldest being over 20.

Yeah, but DL is starting to use their 752s on trans-Atlantic routes, which AFAIK the 739 is not capable of doing.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 14):
Continental has the 739ER already but I don't think they would order as many as 62 of those, they seem to be very happy with the 738.

Quick correction: CO has the 739 (non-ER). And I agree they wouldn't order 62 of them.
 
NYC777
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:06 am

Ya know it could be that US ordered the 62 739ERS and the 30 788s.
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DIA
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
Similar 2 class capacity (180 for 739; 200 for 752

I have a hard time seeing 20 extra seats as "close" in capacity...when you're talking this size of a/c. To me, the 757 is a leap over the 739 in capacity and operational ability. On the other hand, what do I know...

Quoting American 767 (Reply 14):
Continental has the 739ER already

I thought CO only had the standard 739 (non-ER).
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luisca
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 12):
I too was thinking that this order is for an airline with a lot of 752s to replace. Similar 2 class capacity (180 for 739; 200 for 752). Range is different (3200nm for 739; 3900nm for 752). But for an airline such as AA that doesn't use its 752s like CO does (esp on trans-Atl), the range difference might not be an issue.

I am not familiar with the 739s capability's, but I would be worried about cargo hauling capacity and short/hot/high performance, AA flies its 757 to some very challenging places in Latin America and they are usually full with cargo.

Is anybody familiar with the hauling capabilities of the 737? do they match the 757?
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travelin man
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 15):
You think so? Add up all of the 737s and oldest A32* series aircraft and look at the numbers.

The 739 is a pretty big step up in capacity from US' 733s and A320s. I also was not under the impression US was interested in getting rid of its A321s?
 
eraugrad02
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:15 am

Very good news for Boeing and the 737-900ER program. Can't wait to see these flying domestically. I'd be happy seeing them with either carrier.
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AirTranTUS
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting DIA (Reply 18):
I thought CO only had the standard 739 (non-ER).

I think he meant CO already had a 739ER order.
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FriendlySkies
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:17 am

I'd put money on US. They wanted 60, and my guess is Boeing gave them a good deal on 2 more so they could get to 7000 orders before Paris.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 20):
I also was not under the impression US was interested in getting rid of its A321s?

Not at all. Matter of fact in 2006 they upped the order with Airbus.

Quote:
US Airways Increases Airbus Order
August 31, 2006

US Airways announced Wednesday that it added seven new Airbus A321s to an order for 30 Airbus A320 family aircraft. The change also includes switching existing orders for one A320 aircraft and seven A319 aircraft to an order for eight A321 aircraft.

The delivery of the 15 A321 aircraft is expected to begin in July 2008 and continue through 2010.

This narrow body RFP is to begin replacing the 757 and 737-300/400s fleets.
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dank
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 15):
The debt to Airbus has been paid.

According to US's SEC filings and statements, the loan has been forgiven (with Airbus stating that it is part of some other deal). Time will tell how that gets worked out (doesn't mean that this order isn't for US).

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):
Ya know it could be that US ordered the 62 739ERS and the 30 788s.

I thought that Parker had stated that no deal had been signed at the time that the 30 788 UFO came out (and I thought that most evidence pointed to QR being the source of the order).

cheers.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 19):
Is anybody familiar with the hauling capabilities of the 737? do they match the 757?

No, but BTS statistics have shown the 739ER could perform the vast majority of regularly scheduled flights performed by the 757-200.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 19):
I am not familiar with the 739s capability's, but I would be worried about cargo hauling capacity and short/hot/high performance, AA flies its 757 to some very challenging places in Latin America and they are usually full with cargo.

AA wouldn't have to replace all the 757 1:1 with 739ER. If ordered by AA, the 739ER would very likely displace the 757-200 flying between major points in the U.S. domestic market that don't require the full performance of the 757 anyway. They would surely leave the 757 in those select markets where its capabilities are actually required.

Quoting DIA (Reply 18):
I thought CO only had the standard 739 (non-ER).

At this time, CO only has standard 737-900 in service. They have 737-900ER on order.

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 16):
Yeah, but DL is starting to use their 752s on trans-Atlantic routes, which AFAIK the 739 is not capable of doing.

Again, they could also use the 739ER to displace/replace the 757 used domestically, allowing the 757 to go abroad where it can survive a little longer.
 
TropicBird
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:55 am

There was a rumour within US about a month ago that they were buying 739's and 777's. We should know soon enough what the truth is.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:56 am

Hamlet69 said in the 2007 Orders thread he didnt know who the buyer was, but he knew from a reliable source it certainly wasnt US.

Quote

Quoting Hamlet69 (Reply 188):
Quoting 2wingtips (Reply 187):
Why do you say they are not for US?

I have been specifically informed by the most trust-worthy source that it is not US.

Thanks Hamlet. I'll go with your source.
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whappeh
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting TropicBird (Reply 27):
There was a rumour within US about a month ago that they were buying 739's and 777's. We should know soon enough what the truth is.

I never heard the 777 part of the rumor. Interesting.
-Travel now, journey infinitely.
 
warreng24
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:58 am

Could this be for UA?

I think that the post-bankruptcy agreement is that UA can't acquire new aircraft, but it can lease new aircraft. Could this be a purchase of 739ER's be ILFC of GECAS to be leased to UA?

UA has about 93 752's, and already operates a fleet of 733's and 735's.
 
Flighty
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:05 am

Exactly, just because the 757 flies ultra high performance Latin America routes occasionally does not justify a fleet of 100 of them. It only justifies more like 30. That leaves over 70 757s aircraft in AA's network that are unjustified.

However, that is a harsh view on things. AA has already said it plans to keep its entire 757 fleet for years to come (source?) but US has said it wants to replace theirs (except Europe/Hawaii, so about 25 to 30 birds). Plus, US has something like 35 737-400s to replace with something like the 739ER. A fleet of 62 airplanes achieves its own fleet commonality -- surely Boeing would smooth the way for initial training and spares. So does the A321 have a commonality advantage, not greatly. Overall, I am leaning slightly toward the US side.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 30):
Could this be for UA?

Absolutely not.

UA has no plans to acquire aircraft for a few years. They actually still have deferred A319/A320 orders.

In reality, you will likely see fleet shrinkage at UA with some 737s exiting as they come off leases this coming winter.
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mkorpal
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:07 am

Quick question, would Boeing only disclose a portion of an order and keep the rest a secret until it's officially announced. It seems like most logic points to AA as the buyer, except for the fact that they still need 787's and 738's for the MD80's. I would think that they would get it all over with in a single order. That is what makes me think it's someone else all together.
 
Mir
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 30):
UA has about 93 752's, and already operates a fleet of 733's and 735's.

And a fleet of A319s and A320s. I can't really see UA going for 739s, unless it's just a package deal with 788s.

-Mir
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phlwok
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 30):
Could this be for UA?

I think UA would be quite a surprise. They really need more widebodies first, then should deal with their older 737 fleet. While UA 757s aren't in the top condition in the cabin, replacing them probably isn't the airline's top priority.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:12 am

Okay.. my turn to guess....

US Airways...

That's my bet.. they will be getting 739 and 787...
Aiming High and going far..
 
dank
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 17):
Ya know it could be that US ordered the 62 739ERS and the 30 788s.

To follow-up, the 30 788 order was booked on 5 April and the 62 739ER order was booked on 25 May. That doesn't prohibit them both being US, but since they said they were doing a single order and Parker stated that they hadn't signed an order yet after the 5 April date (coupled with most of the evidence pointing to a non-US 788 purchaser) tends to go against that. Now, US may have been able to split the order, and the 739s belong to them? I just don't see the evidence leaning that direction yet.

cheers.
 
vega
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
If its US then there should be likewise an UFO order for ~20 787s as the bids were linked.

I don't think that if US had selected the 787, they would have waited until Paris to announce it and make Airbus look really bad, based on their long business relationships. My guess is that the UFOs are not US. One of my biggest reasons for predicting a US 350-XWB order is that Airbus can fairly easily supplement US's desperately short long haul fleet in the near term with 332s and 340s, either directly or via 2nd source leasing. What can Boeing provide without significant lead time, other than a few used 767-X00ERs for Europe? It would take a 777-200ER to reach Asia from the East Coast and I don't believe there are any available for lease (publicly) from any source. How US approaches filling the long haul fleet gap between next year and first delivery of the 350 or 787 will be of as much interest as the actual selection. One thing's for certain, we'll know within 2 weeks.

[Edited 2007-06-06 02:31:28]
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AirplaneFan
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:29 am

CO already has 24 Boeing 737-900ER's on order and I don't think they need another 62 which is a lot for them at this time. BTW they also a number of 737-700's and 737-800's on order, but I don't know the exact number. Anyways that also verifies that CO doesn't seem to need to place an order for more 737's anytime soon.

NW, UA, and US, are all Airbus A320 Family operators. I don't think they will want to order their A320 rival and operate both of them. Now that will also take a lot of training which will cost a lot of money and I don't think they will prefer that.

DL already placed an order for 10 737-700's and they sold 58 737-800's which they will lease back. That is a total of 68 737's they have on order and I don't think they need any for a few years now.

WN is right now in problems with their markets. They are not making enough money on several of them to keep them profitable, so they have decided to slow down their expansion. Plus they have more than 100 737-700's on order, and so I don't think WN is the one.

FR recently placed an additional order for 27 737-800's. Now I don't think they will want to place an order after another order in a short period of time.

Finally, AA is the one I think who ordered these planes since they announced few weeks ago their plan to start taking delivery of their remaining 47 737-800's to replace a portion of their MD-80's which the oldest is about 24 years old according to Airfleets.net. The youngest MD-80 has not reached its tenth anniversary, but these young MD-80's came from TWA. The youngest MD-80 AA acquired on their own is already about 15 years old. So this means that AA needs these planes to continue their replacement program for their MD-80's. Months ago FX said they wanted 90 Boeing 757's to start replacing their old fleet of 727's. These 90 757's which will be acquired from airlines probably and not leasing companies, are expected to enter service between 2008 and 2016. The 757's of AA are getting old now and the oldest will reach its 20 anniversary in 2009. So their 757's could be the ones that FX is looking at to purchase since their first 757 Freighter is RR powered and all of AA 757's are RR except those that belonged to TWA and which will be out of service soon since their leasing will expire. Now I am not saying that AA is going to retire their entire 757, since the youngest of them all is not even 10 years old yet, but as they take delivery of their new 737-900ER's, they can start replacing from oldest to youngest.

This are just my taught's and this is not something I say is right as the way I think. Now if AA is waiting for the 737RS program, it will still be a while before Boeing starts selling these new airplanes. Now oil prices is something that AA is worried about, and that is another reason I think AA is the purchaser of these airplane. And the most obvious reason I think they're the buyers is because they are a strong Boeing customer.

Like I said before these are just my taught's and I may be wrong about all this information I've typed.

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ERJ170
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):
I don't think they will want to order their A320 rival and operate both of them. Now that will also take a lot of training which will cost a lot of money and I don't think they will prefer that.

United and US Airways already operate Boeing aircraft so I don't think Training would be a problem for either. In fact, it would be NIL problems..

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):
Finally, AA is the one I think who ordered these planes since they announced few weeks ago their plan to start taking delivery of their remaining 47 737-800's to replace a portion of their MD-80's which the oldest is about 24 years old according to Airfleets.net.

I think AA is going to keep their MD80 for awhile and only replace the ones that HAVE to be replaced..
Aiming High and going far..
 
luisca
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 33):
Quick question, would Boeing only disclose a portion of an order and keep the rest a secret until it's officially announced.

They cant, due to SEC regulations (Boeing being a publicly traded company) they are obligated to immediately report anything that can have significant impact for the company (like orders) so as soon as an order is on the books, Boeing has to disclose it.

This is why when a customer books an order with Boeing and they dont want it revealed they go as undisclosed. Reasons for not revealing could be financing, labor, etc.

Similarly this is why Boeing can not "hold orders" until Paris like Airbus can and why Boeing cant count MOUs or LOIs.
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Stitch
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Luisca (Reply 41):
Similarly this is why Boeing can not "hold orders" until Paris like Airbus can and why Boeing cant count MOUs or LOIs.

If an airline does not want to sign on the dotted line until an Air Show, then Airbus has not secured the order, so they can't "hold" it. Also, since Airbus does not record MoUs and LoIs as firm orders, they don't count them, either...
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
Boeing just released their monthly order and delivery update.

The 62 737s that Boeing booked a UFO order last month was one order for 62 x 739ERs!

Where is it said that the order is for a US based airline?

Quoting NYC777 (Thread starter):
I'm willing to bet it's for either US or AA.

You are forgetting the Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines are in the market for new equipment as well. However, if this is between American Airlines and US Airways I would suspect it be American Airlines. US Airways is overly loyal to Airbus, and this would break the sort of "gentleman's" agreement that US has with Airbus.

-JD
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ikramerica
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 2):
The number would correlate to what I've read in the past that US is seeking, but I don't know why they'd mix their fleet. They are a very, very loyal Airbus customer

US already has a mixed fleet.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 24):
This narrow body RFP is to begin replacing the 757 and 737-300/400s fleets.

And to keep the airline competitive (in terms of aircraft pricing) a Boeing order would not be a crazy thing. The added economies of scale of 75 A320s on top of 200+ A320s is just not a factor. Nor is it less efficient to have 100+ 737s. Once fleets reach that size, they are big enough that economies of scale diminish when adding more.

Quoting DIA (Reply 18):
I have a hard time seeing 20 extra seats as "close" in capacity...when you're talking this size of a/c. To me, the 757 is a leap over the 739 in capacity and operational ability. On the other hand, what do I know...

As an example, CO used to fly the domestic 752 with 24F and 156Y. They are flying the 739 with 18F (soon to be 20F) and 149Y.

Thus for the same airline, the 752 had 180 seats, the 739 has (will have) 167 (169) seats. That's about 7% less, which isn't so bad if your load factors are under 90%. AA has 180 seat 757s and expect their 739 (should they get them) to have 20/149 like CO.

For the routes that still need the capacity/range/capability, AA will have PLENTY of 752s they will keep in the fleet for some time to come.

Quoting Mkorpal (Reply 33):
It seems like most logic points to AA as the buyer, except for the fact that they still need 787's and 738's for the MD80's.

Which may be why this is a UFO. The 787s may come at Paris, they already signed on for 738s IIRC.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting AirplaneFan (Reply 39):

WN is right now in problems with their markets. They are not making enough money on several of them to keep them profitable, so they have decided to slow down their expansion. Plus they have more than 100 737-700's on order, and so I don't think WN is the one.

If I had to take a guess, I would suspect that you heard a brief headline about WN slowing their growth and jumped to the numerous (false) conclusions that you just stated. For example, I would appreciate a clarification on the vague notion that WN is having "problems with their markets."

There are numerous reasons why the 737-900ER would be an excellent fit for WN, not the least of which is the potential for considerable labor savings on routes that are currently served by as many as 15-30 daily frequencies. It is at least a possibility that WN is behind this order
 
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drerx7
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 45):
WN is right now in problems with their markets. They are not making enough money on several of them to keep them profitable, so they have decided to slow down their expansion. Plus they have more than 100 737-700's on order, and so I don't think WN is the one.

This is an absurd analysis with no facts to back it up.
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ERJ170
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 43):
US Airways is overly loyal to Airbus, and this would break the sort of "gentleman's" agreement that US has with Airbus.

Where did you get that from?

The old US went from Boeing to Airbus due to some "personal reasons". The old HP went form Boeing to Airbus due to a game of "The Price is Right".

So what is the new US going to do? Go for whichever gives them the right price AND the right aircraft for what they need.

Yes, the new US bought some of their options for new 321. But the old US and the old HP both agree that no 321 can do what a 757 could do. And the new US has stated that the 739 comes the closest to what the 757 could do. And the 757 IS the best aircraft for PHX, LAS, Hawaii, and transcons...

And as stated before.. the "man in charge" has no loyalties toward either, is highly impressed with the 739, already has slots with the 787, asked the people who will be servicing/operating/working the aircraft who stated they wanted Boeing, and already have LOTS of Boeing already which would negate any training problems...

So again, I ask.. why is everyone thinking that it is automatically going to Airbus? I think that this is not Airbus' order to get, but Boeing's order to lose. And I don't think Boeing is going to punk out on this one...

But, this is just my opinion and is not subject to ridicule, flaming, or suppression...
Aiming High and going far..
 
kaitak744
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:20 am

My guesses:

62 737-900ER --> DL, US, AA, or some new airline in Asia...

5 777F + 30 787-8 --> AF / KLM

8 777-300ER + 1 777F --> Qatar (this one i have a very strong feeling is true.)
 
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Stitch
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RE: 62 737 UFO Order: Single Order For 739ER

Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:24 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 45):
There are numerous reasons why the 737-900ER would be an excellent fit for WN, not the least of which is the potential for considerable labor savings on routes that are currently served by as many as 15-30 daily frequencies. It is at least a possibility that WN is behind this order

WN has steadfastly held to the 73G even though the 738 has almost identical trip costs because the 738's additional revenue potential from the extra seats is canceled-out by the extra FA and longer turn times which lowers aircraft utilization.

A 739ER would require two extra FAs and exacerbate the turn times even more.

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