LIPZ
Topic Author
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Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:08 am

Jetstar Airways of Australia, the subsidiary of Qantas, is looking to expand long-haul network into Europe within 2 years. First destinations JQ is considering flying to are Athens and Rome once they get enough 787s. Flights to Europe would be routed via Bangkok.


New services to Athens and Rome via Bangkok could begin operating as early as 2009, Jetstar chief Alan Joyce told BusinessDaily yesterday.

He said a European operation aimed at winning traffic from Australia's large Italian and Greek communities would follow once Jetstar had bedded in its longhaul Asian operation launched in November.


http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21861389-664,00.html
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:14 am

I believe that was announced at the time of JQ's launch, or at least for its long-haul product.
 
LurveBus
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:30 am

I wonder how this would affect QF's codeshare with CX on the FCO route.
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 2):
I wonder how this would affect QF's codeshare with CX on the FCO route.

I don't think that will cause much troubles as JQ cater for a quite different sort of customers.

In addition to Europe, JQ is also looking to add new flights to Taiwan and Korea, and is to go double daily to Bali.

Jetstar bound for Bali as market rebounds
 
Humberside
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:29 am

Wonder if they will ever serve MAN - there would be demand but yields could be an issue if it was QF, so Jetstar with its lower costs could be a good option. I appreciate that London Airways might not like it but AFAIK Jetstar aren't in OneWorld
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David_itl
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
I appreciate that London Airways might not like it but AFAIK Jetstar aren't in OneWorld

If that certain CAA survey is right, some 150-180,000 passengers route MAN-elsewhere-Australia a year. The elsewhere known as LHR only accounts for about 30-40,000 of them. I would imagine that given the reputed high number of passengers that are meant to route MAN-elswhere-BKK (up to 100,000 a year) then a MAN-BKK-Australia routing could see QR, EK and SQ losing some pax and QF (and BA?) being glad to get some more revenue for their group.
 
LIPZ
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 4):
Wonder if they will ever serve MAN

"Mr Joyce said Taiwan, Korean and Southern Europe would be potential destinations for Jetstar over the next few years.In the long term it would look at servicing northern Europe."
 
anstar
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 3):
Quoting LurveBus (Reply 2):
I wonder how this would affect QF's codeshare with CX on the FCO route.

I don't think that will cause much troubles as JQ cater for a quite different sort of customers.

I would say it would stay initially, but it makes no sense for QF to keep coding with CX and not send the business JQ's way.
 
LIPZ
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:13 am

Quoting LurveBus (Reply 2):
I wonder how this would affect QF's codeshare with CX on the FCO route.

According to the australian DOTARS it seems Qantas is allowed to codeshare up to 600 weekly seats. Since Cathay Pacific flies to Rome with a 383-seats daily service (747-400), it means that up to 11% of CX's offered capacity on that route may be sold by QF (about 42 seats per flight). I think it is not such a problem for CX flying without QF's codeshare.



NORTHERNSUMMER 2007: 25 MARCH 2007 / 28 OCTOBER 2007

country : ITALY
carrier : QANTAS - CODE SHARE ON CATHAY PACIFIC
frequencies : 7
seats : MAX 600
route : HKG-FCO vv

http://www.dotars.gov.au/aviation/in...national/xl/NS_2007_TT_Summary.xls
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:52 pm

The BKK stop to ATH and FCO makes sense....

Australia - ATH/FCO seats will be filled easily with ethnic traffic and general holiday traffic.
Thailand is also a very popular destination from Greece and Italy, so there will also be point to point Europe-BKK and Australia-BKK traffic as well..
 
peh
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:53 pm

Rome is a loooooooong way from Australia. Is there anyone here that would fly 24 hours with a low-budget, no frills, pack your own lunch carrier?

I don't care if I don't get a muffin on a one hour flight, but 24 hours. No way!
Flown: ATR72, DASH 8, 737, 747, 767, 777, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, MD80
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting Peh (Reply 10):
Rome is a loooooooong way from Australia. Is there anyone here that would fly 24 hours with a low-budget, no frills, pack your own lunch carrier?

I don't care if I don't get a muffin on a one hour flight, but 24 hours. No way!

Seat pitch on JQ A330 is not so nasty.
You can purchase food on board, or BYO.
you can also get IFE and pillow/blanket at a cost.
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:47 pm

I don't think I'd like to fly international on Jetstar, much less going to Rome!
I am looking forward to them going to Taiwan though, I wonder if they'll do it through Brisbane?
Spirit of Australia
 
mainMAN
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Thu Jun 07, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting David_itl (Reply 5):
If that certain CAA survey is right, some 150-180,000 passengers route MAN-elsewhere-Australia a year. The elsewhere known as LHR only accounts for about 30-40,000 of them. I would imagine that given the reputed high number of passengers that are meant to route MAN-elswhere-BKK (up to 100,000 a year) then a MAN-BKK-Australia routing could see QR, EK and SQ losing some pax and QF (and BA?) being glad to get some more revenue for their group.

Not to mention the many thousands from the Midlands and NW who drive down to LHR. These figures are rising all the time.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting Qantasairways (Reply 12):
I am looking forward to them going to Taiwan though, I wonder if they'll do it through Brisbane?

My guess is they would resume SYD-TPE, with EVA codesharing.

Although I think BNE-ICN would probably have priority.
Korea is a growing market, and QF could codeshare on Asiana ex-SYD and operate its own metal from BNE.
 
andaman
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:19 am

Would be cool to see JetStar flying SYD-BKK-HEL  Wink
Atleast LCC route HEL-BKK would attract passengers - and make Finnair mad (flies 2x daily to BKK in winter)...

Helsinki is closer to SYD than the other European capitals:

HEL-SYD........... 8200 Nautical miles

London - Sydney 9170
Paris-Sydney..... 9151
Frankfurt-Sydney 8893
Rome-Sydney ....8801
Athens-Sydney...8269

http://www.etn.nl/distance.htm
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 14):
My guess is they would resume SYD-TPE, with EVA codesharing.

Yeah that would be a good bet, 6thfreedom. But would EVA codeshare on a Jetstar flight?
I'm surprised QF hasn't dropped Eva altogether in favour of China Airlines, who serve TPE through both BNE and SYD.

Cheers
johann
Spirit of Australia
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting QantasAirways (Reply 16):
But would EVA codeshare on a Jetstar flight?

JAL codes on the KIX-BNE/SYD flight, so i dont see why not...

Only thing is JQ might have to change model for meals etc..
 
Viscount724
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting QantasAirways (Reply 16):
Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 14):
My guess is they would resume SYD-TPE, with EVA codesharing.

Yeah that would be a good bet, 6thfreedom. But would EVA codeshare on a Jetstar flight?
I'm surprised QF hasn't dropped Eva altogether in favour of China Airlines, who serve TPE through both BNE and SYD.

That's not 6th freedom. SYD-TPE on an Australian or Taiwanese carrier is 3rd/4th freedom. 6th freedom would be CX carrying a passenger SYD-HKG-TPE or TG SYD-BKK-TPE etc..
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:00 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
That's not 6th freedom. SYD-TPE on an Australian or Taiwanese carrier is 3rd/4th freedom. 6th freedom would be CX carrying a passenger SYD-HKG-TPE or TG SYD-BKK-TPE etc..

I think you misunderstood. I meant 6thfreedom as in the username, I was responding to him.

Cheers
Spirit of Australia
 
Viscount724
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting QantasAirways (Reply 19):
I think you misunderstood. I meant 6thfreedom as in the username, I was responding to him.

Thanks. Sorry for the confusion.
 
QantasAirways
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:37 pm

Quoting QantasAirways (Reply 19):
Thanks. Sorry for the confusion.

Thats alright  Smile no problems
Spirit of Australia
 
Nimish
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:21 pm

Is this a threat to EK and their plans of being the dominant carrier on the Europe-DXB-Oz market? Or is this so insignificant in size that it's not going to matter to EK?
Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
 
bill142
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:42 pm

It's surprising that QF can't fly to Athens and turn a profit considering Australia has the largest Greek population outside of Greece, especially in Melbourne.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:50 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 23):
It's surprising that QF can't fly to Athens and turn a profit considering Australia has the largest Greek population outside of Greece, especially in Melbourne.

not really , VFR ( Visiting Friends and Relations ) traffic is notoriously low yield . There is a lot of competition ( TG , SQ etc ) . I also wonder how close the ties are these days anyway - aren't most of Melbournes "Greeks" are second or third generation Australians - do they really all feel strongly linked to Greece anymore ?
 
VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:01 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 23):
largest Greek population outside of Greece, especially in Melbourne.

Its changed now. Chicago has the biggest followed by Melbourne
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:12 am

VFR markets ex-Australia (Filipino, Greek, Italian etc) are notorious for taking back gifts etc, which translates in 30kg+ luggage.

I wonder how the ethnic market will take to JQs 20kg allowance, high excess luggage fees and so on.
Some carriers, TG in particular, are very generous.

I think this will be an issue when chasing the VFR market.
 
VHVXB
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 26):
I wonder how the ethnic market will take to JQs 20kg allowance, high excess luggage fees and so on.
Some carriers, TG in particular, are very generous.

JQ has pricing option for extra baggage when you book your ticket. It works to be cheaper paying for it when your purchase your ticket compared to just showing up to the airport with overweight baggage
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 27):
JQ has pricing option for extra baggage when you book your ticket. It works to be cheaper paying for it when your purchase your ticket compared to just showing up to the airport with overweight baggage

But if you're still having to pay for it upfront, it makes it less appealing than paying for your fare with all inclusive baggage allowance.

I would dare say 90% of the ethnic traffic travels with 30kgs.

JQ has indicates ATH and FCO at around $800 each way.

so $1600 return.
add another $80 for food on four sctors, plus another $80 for entertainment and another $80 for the comfort pack.

Then add another say $10 per kg over, and the fare comes close to $2000. not that much of a saving if you ask me.

P.S. I heard that JQ was serving a meat pie as dinner on it's MEL-BKK flights!
 
anstar
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:06 pm

Quoting 6thfreedom (Reply 28):
P.S. I heard that JQ was serving a meat pie as dinner on it's MEL-BKK flights!

You heard right! Second meal was a Meat Pie!!!
 
melpax
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RE: Jetstar Plans Flights To ATH And FCO Via BKK

Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:21 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 24):
I also wonder how close the ties are these days anyway - aren't most of Melbournes "Greeks" are second or third generation Australians - do they really all feel strongly linked to Greece anymore ?

Even though a lot of the Greeks & Italians here are 2nd & 3rd generation, a lot of them still maintain ties to family back home & it's common for a lot of them to go 'home' every couple of years or so, some of them annually. It's also not unusual for families to keep a home in Greece or Italy (usually in the ancestral village or city) to use when they visit. You're not wrong though about the routes being low yeild - Greeks & Italians love a bargain & they usually won't pay top dollar if they can get away with it. I couldn't see there being much corporate business traffic either, there are quite a few people who operate businesses in both Australia & Greece, but they wouldn't pay 10 grand for Biz class, they'd pony up the discounted economy fare & pocket the difference.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......