yvrtoyyz
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RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:38 am

RUMOR:

According to sources, AC Jazz has issued an internal memo for a station manager and customer service reps. for CYKF with service to YOW and YUL using a Dash-8.

To correlate with this rumour, the Region of Waterloo is proposing a 2-year Master Plan which would turn all of Apron 3 into ramp space for airline aircraft (Saab 340/Mesaba, A320/SkyService, B737/WestJet, Dash-8/AC Jazz, and a Metroliner/Bearskin). These changes would force the FBO beside the terminal to arrive/depart all aircraft on Apron 2 (currently the "de-ice" ramp to the left of the tower) and transport them back to their facility using ground vehicles.
 
Noise
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:08 am

Does this mean having a YKF-YOW-YUL flight on the same aircraft, or 2 seperate flights YKF-YOW and YKF-YUL?

Anyways great for YKF. I always felt that for a metro area of almost 500,000 they did not have adequate air service, partly due to their proximity to Greater Toronto.
 
pacifica
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting Noise (Reply 1):
Anyways great for YKF. I always felt that for a metro area of almost 500,000 they did not have adequate air service, partly due to their proximity to Greater Toronto.

I totally agree. And when you add into the mix stuff like nearby Guelph, etc, there are bound to be around 700,000 residents that would prefer flying from Waterloo than Toronto.

Especially with the way Waterloo's economy is booming right now, I think its about time they got some decent scheduled service (in addition to WestJet's new offerings that is).
 
Noise
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:51 am

Isn't the Kitchener Metro Area supposed to surpass London as the #4 metro area in Ontario sometime soon? Anyway if there is a need to divert some air traffic away from YYZ to more local airports such as YHM or YKF, then this is one step in that direction.
 
pacifica
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:57 am

One thing I forgot to say...

I think that although many of these local areas (ex. Hamilton, Waterloo, London, etc) have alot of residents and most likely a high demand for air travel as well, the key thing will be getting airlines to service the void. With both Air Canada and WestJet hubbed at Pearson (although WestJet to a lesser degree), from their perspective they probably don't want to erode the travel base that they currently enjoy and utilize at Pearson, even if it would be more convenient for consumers to travel from their local airports.

Hopefully that made some sense! Big grin
 
Arrow
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 2):
Especially with the way Waterloo's economy is booming right now, I think its about time they got some decent scheduled service (in addition to WestJet's new offerings that is).

And just wait 'til that hockey team moves north ...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
YYZYHZ
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:37 pm

I hope this is true..I'm from Waterloo Region but live in Nova Scotia...I WOULD love to to connect in Ottawa/Montreal and fly to an airport 10-15 minutes from my house!
Travelled on Dash 8-300, A319, A320, A321, A330, B737, B747, B757, B767, E75
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:55 pm

While the additional service does not surprise me, there are three points which I find interesting:

1) Bearskin is shown in the Yellow Pages as flying from YKF-YOW, yet service has not commenced and is rumored not to begin until Fall 2007.

2) The alleged changes to the ramp space - namely Apron 3 - and the logistical nightmare it would create for the FBO to arrive/depart aircraft utilizing their facilities.

3) The terminal was recently renovated although not to the original plans due to budget concerns. Now that there is increased air service even three years after the completion of the renovations, the terminal is too small for the number of flights and passengers. Mesaba currently is taking the brunt of the inconveniences with their check-in areas in an attempt by the Airport Authority to appease the likes of WestJet and SkyService but the question remains, when there is no space available within a terminal for check-in (or more realistically for waiting lounges), then what options remain other than more renovations?

There are solutions for the airport, but significant concessions would be required on the part of the FBO, Airport Authority and airlines to come to a feasible solution.
 
yow
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:33 am

You've got to think YOW-YKF and YUL-YKF service will happen within the next few months. If Bearskin does it, I doubt they'll fly YUL-YKF, since JV's scheduled ops are solely within ON & MB. If Jazz does it, which makes the most sense, I'd expect 2x daily YOW-YKF service and 3x daily YUL-YKF service on Dash 8s.

YKF's terminal is way too small. It must be rough in the mornings right now with NW and WS going out within an hour of one another.
 
Noise
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:16 am

How small is their terminal exactly?
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Arrow (Reply 5):
And just wait 'til that hockey team moves north ...

Hey! You're not getting our Predators!!!

In reality, you probably are. This is a one sport town. Good luck!
 
pacifica
Posts: 140
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 10):
Hey! You're not getting our Predators!!!

In reality, you probably are. This is a one sport town. Good luck!

I just can't wait for Balsillie to move the team (and for the NHL to give approval lol). The battle for Ontario just got kicked up a notch! Big grin
 
MattRB
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:04 am

Hmm.. if they're needing station attendants, I'd put in for that.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
connies4ever
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 11):
I just can't wait for Balsillie to move the team (and for the NHL to give approval lol). The battle for Ontario just got kicked up a notch! Big grin

Who says they're going to Ontario ?  bouncy 
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 13):
Who says they're going to Ontario ?

The local paper here in Nashville is indicating that if he moves (dependant on next season's attendance lease clause and assuming it won't be met), the Preds are going to Hamilton.
 
pacifica
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 14):
The local paper here in Nashville is indicating that if he moves (dependant on next season's attendance lease clause and assuming it won't be met), the Preds are going to Hamilton.

Only half correct.  Wink

Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early. The team would then move to Hamilton, but only for a season or two until a new permanent facility could be constructed in Waterloo (the two main reasons for Waterloo over Hamilton; one is that Jim's company RIM is headquartered in Waterloo, and two is the Waterloo, unlike Hamilton, is outside the [60mi?] perimeters of both Toronto and Buffalo so the team would not face any financial penalties or rights issues).
 
connies4ever
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 15):
Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early. The team would then move to Hamilton, but only for a season or two until a new permanent facility could be constructed in Waterloo (the two main reasons for Waterloo over Hamilton; one is that Jim's company RIM is headquartered in Waterloo, and two is the Waterloo, unlike Hamilton, is outside the [60mi?] perimeters of both Toronto and Buffalo so the team would not face any financial penalties or rights issues).

Actually that makes more sense to me. Kitchener-Waterloo & London probably make up ~ 1M population or thereabouts, and both Waterloo & London have lots of corporate HQs -- unlike Hamilton. IIRC Copps Coliseum also does not have a lot (any?) luxury suites etc to leverage income.

I just wonder if Balsillie can get the governments to pay for the arena. But they shouldn't. It's his team, let him pat for it.
I hope he has another $200M to spend.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
pacifica
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 16):
I just wonder if Balsillie can get the governments to pay for the arena. But they shouldn't. It's his team, let him pat for it.
I hope he has another $200M to spend.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines that RIM, a huge Waterloo based high tech firm (known for making the BlackBerry, or as some here call it, the CrackBerry lol) that Jim co-founded, would step up to the plate and sponsor the new stadium deal alongside the Region of Waterloo. But honestly, who knows?
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 15):
Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early.

OK, our paper didn't mention this, only about the Hamilton part. They did indicate it's proximity to Toronto and Buffalo might be an issue. As for the team meeting the needed goal of averaging 14,000 next year, that seems iffy. They have a core fan base, but little corporate support. Despite being in the running for the President's Cup most of the season, the only guaranteed sellouts are when the Red Wings come to town, and much of that crowd is transplanted Detroiters, which is one of the things that has been a sore spot for Leipold ever since they began play. If they do reach the 14,000 level, then it is my understanding they cannot move before the end of the 2009 season at earliest, but if the new owner dangles enough $$$ in front of the city, who knows. As I said earlier, this really is a one sport town, and it involves an oblong shaped ball. They sell out every game regardless of how crappy they are. Stay tuned.

Oh, if you guys do get our team, can you at least convince AC to give us back our third BNA-YYZ n/s?  biggrin 
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting YOW (Reply 8):
YKF's terminal is way too small. It must be rough in the mornings right now with NW and WS going out within an hour of one another

Currently there is no overlap with flights from XJ and WS.

XJ Departs at 06:20, 10:57 and 15:18 Monday-Friday and 10:57, 15:18 Saturday-Sunday using a Saab 340 (up to 35 pax)
WS Departs 18:10 Daily using a B73G/B736 with loads that appear profitable

It remains unknown what schedule Bearskin or AC will have and whether Voyageur will operate again this coming winter using Dash-7s (however, Voyageur used the FBO services and not the terminal)

What remains to be seen is whether WS will continue year-round and how that will affect the terminal, ramp and ground-services should SkyService return. Their departure schedule in the winter was 06:00, 17:00 and 01:00 3-times a week.

Terminal expansion is rumoured to occur on the south side of the terminal where baggage is loaded on to the carts as a short-term measure but as I mentioned previously, significant changes to the ramp are on the table.
 
AC777LR
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:38 pm

I hear that the Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre is trying to buy a Tug for these planes as the airport does not currently have one on the field. YKF and this are are growing really fast and I think the airlines are starting to see this. Give it five years and it will be a big difference.
Member since April 2000
 
YOWguy
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:11 am

Also to help with expansion would be the new factory which Toyota is building in Woodstock. There are rumours swirling that Toyota is set to double the size of this factory, before it is even finished.

Although Toyota's head office is in Toronto, with one facility already in Cambridge, the addition of another in Woodstock, the need for Toyota execs to fly to Waterloo airport might be multiplied.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 15):
Only half correct.

Sources indicate Jim Balsillie has begun talks with Copps Coliseum in Hamilton as an INTERIM solution for the Predators if fan attendance next season allows the team to opt out of the stadium lease early. The team would then move to Hamilton, but only for a season or two until a new permanent facility could be constructed in Waterloo (the two main reasons for Waterloo over Hamilton; one is that Jim's company RIM is headquartered in Waterloo, and two is the Waterloo, unlike Hamilton, is outside the [60mi?] perimeters of both Toronto and Buffalo so the team would not face any financial penalties or rights issues).

Unless 20 years in Interm Don't count on it. The lease being worked on is for 20 years. Also There are a good parts to both cities getting this team(if it happens) in Kitchener Waterloo I don't think Jim would have to pay territorial rights however with Hamilton for all the fans that cant get leaf tickets its easier to get to Hamilton then to Kitchener if you live anywhere between T.O. and Hamilton just hop on the QEW or even better take the Go Train.


Also as far a copps not having boxed it was built in such a way that modifications can easily happen. They can raise the roof on the place.

Anyway There is stiff competition right now among southern ontario airports with YXU YKF YHM and the Crappy Pickering idea.

As far as I can tell YHM is winning.

As far as the Preds go if anyway wants to disscuss this more start something in Non Av.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting YOWguy (Reply 21):
facility already in Cambridge, the addition of another in Woodstock, the need for Toyota execs to fly to Waterloo airport might be multiplied

Toyota does not fly their aircraft into YKF as much as one would think - no more than once every 2 months. With that being said, there is a constant stream of Toyota people arriving on the Mesaba flight into YKF - approx. 3 people/week. I do not see this trend changing all that much.

On a larger scale, an increase in private traffic (ie. Toyota) has no bearing on the amount of traffic going through the terminal or using Apron 3A. The Toyota Gulfstream arrives/departs on Apron 3B and overnights on Apron 3C and solely uses the FBO's services.

Relating to the potential move of Predators to YHM, there would be no increase in traffic at YKF. Should the team move to K-W, then it would be interesting to see who handles the chartered aircraft of the away team. The aircraft would most certainly have to use Apron 3A, but I would suspect that busses would be escorted airside thereby eliminating the terminal facilities again. Overnighting aircraft could be placed on Apron 3C.

It is also rumoured that SkyBus is considering YKF as they conducted 2 route proving runs to the airport and were in discussion with the Airport Authority as a viable alternative to YYZ.

Quoting AC777LR (Reply 20):
Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre is trying to buy a Tug for these planes as the airport does not currently have one on the field.

This rumour is unconfirmed from who I have spoken to on the field. In addition, it would make more sense for Airways to acquire a tug since they do the ground handling for WS and SkyService. If not Airways, it would be far-fetched for the FBO to acquire a tug and even less likely for WWFC to acquire one seeing as though they have no involvement in the turn-around of either airline.
 
yow
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 23):
If not Airways, it would be far-fetched for the FBO to acquire a tug and even less likely for WWFC to acquire one seeing as though they have no involvement in the turn-around of either airline.

If Jazz show up on scene, you'll get that tug. I was at YYZ yesterday for the first time in awhile. I was surprised to see Jazz Dash 8s being pulled around with tractors...something you'd only ordinarily see at small airports.

I didn't realize the WS departure was in the evening. If it's doing well, that's great to hear considering the flight only connects to 8 additional cities. Just think of how well a morning departure would do.
 
connies4ever
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:47 am

Any info yet on how WS is doing YKF - YYC ?

Also I'm wondering with the K-W area being such a software hotbed, how long before a YKF - YVR route develops ?
Might be perfect for an E-jet.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
N1120A
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Thread starter):

According to sources, AC Jazz has issued an internal memo for a station manager and customer service reps. for CYKF with service to YOW and YUL using a Dash-8.

It makes sense. I would have used the 3 letter code though, because that allows a scroll over.

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 2):
prefer flying from Waterloo

Actually, the airport isn't in Waterloo proper, only Waterloo Region. It is technically in Breslau, but calling it Kitchener or even Cambridge Airport would be more accurate

Quoting Noise (Reply 9):
How small is their terminal exactly?

Small.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 16):
It's his team, let him pat for it.

Well, they could always play in the Cambridge Ice Centre  Silly
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
yow
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 9):
How small is their terminal exactly?

Small enough to make YQG's terminal look huge in comparison.
 
yvrtoyyz
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:10 am

RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 25):
Any info yet on how WS is doing YKF - YYC ?

While not getting into specifics, the loads are high enough to be profitable using a B73G. There was a B736 in on Friday however it is unknown whether that was a replacement aircraft or will be the norm from now on.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 25):
how long before a YKF - YVR route develops ?

The flight originates in YVR, stops in Calgary and continues on to YKF so there is no need to change planes in YYC.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Actually, the airport isn't in Waterloo proper, only Waterloo Region. It is technically in Breslau, but calling it Kitchener

Correct, while not located in the city of Waterloo (approx. 15 mins from YKF), it is located and operated under the jurisdiction of the Region of Waterloo in the small town of Breslau. Most traffic refers to the area as "Kitchener traffic..." or "Waterloo traffic..." when the tower is closed between 23:00 and 07:00. However, during operating hours, it is "Waterloo Tower..." or "Waterloo Ground...." You most certainly do not hear any reference to Cambridge over the radio; strictly Waterloo or Kitchener.
 
GoBlue
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:01 am

So here is thinking that AC needs to expand not only Kitchener-Waterloo, but London and Hamilton.

Logisitically how hard would it be for AC to base a E-175 or E-190 in southern ontario and have them doing runs to the west, such as calgary, vancouver. Only with somethign in the range of three times weekly service or the lot?

AC also loses out on some traffic from the KW now that there are charters being flown from their to the caribbean, and Northwest is siphoning people to detroit for connections onward. I flew on northwest a couple of times last year and their is nothing wrong with their service. I personally feel AC is losing its smaller markets, at a time when they have the ability to right size the aircraft for the market!

Cheers
 
pacifica
Posts: 140
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 4:56 am

RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting GoBlue (Reply 29):
So here is thinking that AC needs to expand not only Kitchener-Waterloo, but London and Hamilton.

Logisitically how hard would it be for AC to base a E-175 or E-190 in southern ontario and have them doing runs to the west, such as calgary, vancouver. Only with somethign in the range of three times weekly service or the lot?

AC also loses out on some traffic from the KW now that there are charters being flown from their to the caribbean, and Northwest is siphoning people to detroit for connections onward. I flew on northwest a couple of times last year and their is nothing wrong with their service. I personally feel AC is losing its smaller markets, at a time when they have the ability to right size the aircraft for the market!

I think the main problem here is that with an AC superhub just miles down the road at YYZ, they don't want to dilute their connection feed through there. I know it sounds kind of dumb, because there is obviously enough demand from the likes of YKF, YXU, and YHM to warrant direct service to various cities, but I'm pretty sure this is the mentality of the executives at AC. Why serve these cities when it could potentially take away traffic from our YYZ fortress?

Just a thought.
 
N1120A
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 28):
You most certainly do not hear any reference to Cambridge over the radio; strictly Waterloo or Kitchener.

I know that, but by proximity, it is closer to Cambridge than to Waterloo

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 28):
it is located and operated under the jurisdiction of the Region of Waterloo in the small town of Breslau

And calling it Kitchener Airport would be far more accurate than calling it Waterloo airport. Now, calling it Region of Waterloo Airport is a different thing entirely.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
yvrtoyyz
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting GoBlue (Reply 29):
AC also loses out on some traffic from the KW now that there are charters being flown from their to the caribbean, and Northwest is siphoning people to detroit for connections onward.

I would be very surprised to see AC offering any more services from YKF other than to YOW and YUL. If one uses YHM as a reference, AC offers service to YUL and YOW where you can connect elsewhere. I am certain that AC is monitoring the progress of WS at YKF and will make decisions accordingly.

As for SkyService for winter ops at YKF, they are a charter company and will only fly if there are enough seats filled to make a profit. This was not the case at the end of March and thus they terminated service 2 weeks earlier than scheduled from YKF forcing passengers to go to YYZ instead. They also offer complete vacation packages providing incentive for people to use YKF. AC would provide air travel only (aside from AC Vacations) and thus offer less incentive for people to use YKF as opposed to YYZ.

As for NW/XJ, a majority of those travelling are for business (usually automotive, including a large Toyota contingency). I don't think that the extent of travel possibilities on NW through DTW are advertised very well and utilized from YKF. With that being said, the Saab was full again off-loading today from DTW and loads have been good in recent times.
 
Noise
Posts: 2017
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 1999 7:38 am

RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:19 am

How does air service at YKF compare to YXU?
 
CAPTYXU
Posts: 13
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RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:35 pm

Air Canada Jazz theres about 12 daily trips from YXU-YYZ Dash 100 and 300
Air Canada Jazz once daily YXU-YOW-YUL Dash 100 and 300
Air Canada Jazz YXU-YWG CRJ
Westjet Twice Daily YXU-YYC 737 in summer and once in the winter
Westjet daily YXU-YWG 736
NWA four times daily to YXU-DTW
plus all the Sunwing charters in the winter
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 33):
How does air service at YKF compare to YXU?

It doesn't. YXU gets much more commercial traffic.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: RUMOUR: AC Jazz To Cykf

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting YVRtoYYZ (Reply 32):
As for SkyService for winter ops at YKF, they are a charter company and will only fly if there are enough seats filled to make a profit.

Skyservice could care less whether their aircraft is 100% full or 100% empty out of YKF. It's the tour operators paying 5G to charter their aircraft that care about seats filled.