upperdeckfan
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Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:33 am

I've been flying from MAD to US midwest and west coast every other month over the last 2 years and most of the times have been impossible to find a seat in J on IB to ORD even booking 4 to 6 wks in advance. When I fly BA thru LHR to LAX, SFO, SEA, DTW, IAH or ORD always meet other people flying out of MAD or BCN complaining about how limted IB network is in the US.

So I'm wondering if it would be feasible for IB to start a second daily to ORD (gateway to around 30 US states and most of Canada) or new daily to LAX or DFW. I know DFW failed in the past but a lot of things have changed since then........

BTW, my opinion is that new IB flights to BOS and IAD doesn't make much sense since OW connections (AA) are very limited.

UPPERDECKFAN

P.S: my first post
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BigGSFO
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:49 am

Welcome to A.net!!!  Smile

AA and IB have asked for anti-trust immunity, so moving forward I would say DFW-MAD could be quite possible. I also think a second MIA-MAD, and/or both JFK-MAD and ORD-MAD on AA metal would be a natural next step (I also think MIA-BCN would be good). Perhaps LAX at some point although I think the market is quite thin and not very high yielding.
 
IberiaA319
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:03 am

Welcome to a.net!

Iberia had plans to expand in the US for some time and made the research and the feasibility studies. Flights have a load factor of around 85 %.

Reasons for IAD according to IB: "The new route is intended to meet the growing demand for flights to the US capital of official bodies in the United States, Spain and other countries of Southern Europe; of technology companies with activities in Washington or in neighbouring Maryland and Virginia; of American and Spanish university students in foreign study programmes; and members of Washington, DC’s large Spanish community.

In addition, the direct Madrid-Washington flights will be an excellent option for travellers to and from the neighbouring cities of Baltimore and Philadelphia."

For BOS: "The airline is scheduling this new flight to provide the most convenient connections to European capitals such as London, Paris, Frankfurt or Rome, and also with Spanish cities like Barcelona, Malaga, Bilbao and Valencia."

Anyway, as rumoured we might see more North American destinations in the future (if enough aircrafts are available).
 
travelin man
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:17 am

I too hope IB returns to LAX soon. I would think if EI or LX could make LAX work, IB would be able to as well (maybe 3x/week or something like that).
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:21 am

The O'Hare flight might be full, but it loses money. It has never been a good performer for Iberia.
a.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:33 am

Don't get me wrong MAH4546 but it's very hard to believe MAD-ORD is a money loser for IB when everytime I've flown it in the last 2 years there were no empty J seats and the other times I've had to fly thru somewhere else because J were not available.

Just an opinion based on the feeling of someone who is just a frequent flyer not involved on the airlines business
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PanAm747
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:46 am

Many years ago, AA tried flying DFW-MAD. It was unsuccessful, so it was switched to MIA-MAD, which IIRC has become a cash cow. IB knows this is a low-yield route, so until such time as the market warrants, IB will leave it be. My guess would be that if the market ever grew, it would be IB that flew it - AA would probably want to keep its long-haul fleet to routes that it knows would make it the most money. IB could contract with AA for a lot of the work and keep their staff to a minimum, and maybe not fly every single day. Possible, but not right now.

On the other hand, IB has discovered that their is sufficient O&D traffic for Madrid to both Boston and Washington, DC. In this case, it is a Spanish market for those two cities, not Boston and DC suddenly springing dozens of loyal IB FF-ers. Kind of like AA starting LGA-MSP - not for Minnesotans (and when we here see MSP, we immediately think "red tails"), but for New Yorkers.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
miaskies
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
I also think a second MIA-MAD

Iberia flies 10 weekly flights in between MIA-MAD (both 343), Double Daily on W, F & SUN. In addition to AA's Daily MIA-MAD on 763; that's 17 weekly flights in between both and their is code-share.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Reply 5):
Don't get me wrong MAH4546 but it's very hard to believe MAD-ORD is a money loser for IB when everytime I've flown it in the last 2 years there were no empty J seats and the other times I've had to fly thru somewhere else because J were not available.

I'm not doubting you, but that doesn't mean the flight makes money. Many passengers might be upgrades or traveling on AA points. The flight has never performed well.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
IB has discovered that their is sufficient O&D traffic for Madrid to both Boston and Washington, DC.

The majority of the traffic is connecting. That is what they are going for.
a.
 
Bicoastal
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:22 am

All I can say is that Star Alliance needs a flight to Spain and/or Portugal from IAD. I can't believe United/TAP/Spanair is going to give this market on a silver platter to OneWorld.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:25 am

Ive wondered why DFW isnt on the radar for either AA or IB. DFW has grown a bit recently and with the demise of DFW-ZRH, I think that makes room for one more player in the DFW-Europe. I think MAD or BRU would be a wise move. DFW has gained alot more connecting flights and the local economy has grown substanitally since either route has been flown from DFW. The market has changed and I think one of the two (MAD or BRU) could work given codeshare opprotunities on both ends.

Im not sure about the profitability of ORD-MAD on IB. I know the loads are very good, but as MAH points out, it doesnt always equal profitability.
It is what it is...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:40 am

UPPERDECKFAN ...welcome to A.net.. Smile

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1):
AA and IB have asked for anti-trust immunity, so moving forward I would say DFW-MAD could be quite possible. I also think a second MIA-MAD, and/or both JFK-MAD and ORD-MAD on AA metal would be a natural next step (I also think MIA-BCN would be good). Perhaps LAX at some point although I think the market is quite thin and not very high yielding.

..would love to see them come to SFO too.. yes 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
I'm not doubting you, but that doesn't mean the flight makes money. Many passengers might be upgrades or traveling on AA points. The flight has never performed well.

Mark, that's interesting because I always see IB upgrading to an A346 during the summer season..I would assume that loads and yields would be decent enough to take one of their A346's and put it for their ORD flight..

"Up the Irons!"
 
Flight209
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:51 am

Isn't BOS a focus city (though not a hub) for AA? If so, then couldn't the combination of that and BOS's O&D numbers help IB succeed with MAD-BOS service?
I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
 
BOAC911
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
Mark, that's interesting because I always see IB upgrading to an A346 during the summer season..I would assume that loads and yields would be decent enough to take one of their A346's and put it for their ORD flight..

No, not always. IB juggles their A340s around a lot. The A340-300 have been substituted at short noticed by its bigger brother on most IB long-hauls. These are for seasonal adjustments or weekend flights when demand is significantly higher
I fly the route very often, and have seen the equipment switched to the smaller -300 unexpectedly several times.

The thing that is superb about the ORD-MAD flight is the ease of connection it offers for connection passengers at O'Hare. One doesn't need to take the train to Terminal 5, and pass thru security again.

And IB's significantly improved Business Class!! (Business Plus)
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):

Mark, that's interesting because I always see IB upgrading to an A346 during the summer season..I would assume that loads and yields would be decent enough to take one of their A346's and put it for their ORD flight..

Yes, it is always filled, because they have no problems filling the flight. It still loses money annually. June/July/August are probably a bright spot, and it may even make money during those months, but the flight is a money loser over the span of the year.

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 12):
Isn't BOS a focus city (though not a hub) for AA?

A dying one.

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 12):
If so, then couldn't the combination of that and BOS's O&D numbers help IB succeed with MAD-BOS service?

Boston doesn't offer anything that JFK, ORD, MIA, or SJU don't. The flight was to capture O&D between Boston and Europe. There really isn't much O&D to Madrid, but there is a huge amount to Europe, and Iberia is planning on capitalizing on that. Early results are pretty decent, yield is less than stellar, but you can't really judge a new route until after a year.
a.
 
SKY1
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:47 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
I'm not doubting you, but that doesn't mean the flight makes money. Many passengers might be upgrades or traveling on AA points. The flight has never performed well

If IB really loses money anually just like you say, they had already stopped the MAD-ORD-MAD services. It's pretty obvious that IB will fly not only to make a favour to AA.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:22 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 15):
If IB really loses money anually just like you say, they had already stopped the MAD-ORD-MAD services. It's pretty obvious that IB will fly not only to make a favour to AA.

That isn't how airlines work. If every route made money, then airlines would never discontinue services. Just because Iberia's O'Hare route loses money annually, which it has for the past seven years, does not mean they will discontinue it. Iberia's pressence in Chicago is still important, as Iberia is a oneWorld member, and the Chicago route can contribute positively to connecting routes.

Look at British Airways in Houston. They fly a daily Houston-Heathrow flight via Detroit. That flight doesn't make a dime, but it is important because it contributes a significant amount of premium traffic to BA's African network, especially to Lagos and Luanada.
a.
 
upperdeckfan
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:54 pm

I agree that not every route that loose money is stopped right away, there are always strategic considerations that are taken into account, however, specifically on MAD-ORD-MAD route, I don't believe that consistently filling between 40J (A343) and 60 J (A346) seats daily can be based mainly on upgrades or AA miles.

The concept of F/J passengers being the base of airline profit has been said thousand of times in this forum, so I can conclude in IB MAD-ORD-ORD this fact is no longer valid.

Really a surprise IB can't make money on the only non stop flight between its main hub and one of the main hubs of its OW partner AA while being the only non-stop flight from Spain going beyond the US east coast, and giving the fact ORD is the gateway to most of the US and CA (i.e. midwest, mountain zone and west coast).
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airbazar
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:12 pm

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Thread starter):
BTW, my opinion is that new IB flights to BOS and IAD doesn't make much sense since OW connections (AA) are very limited.

AA is the second largest carrier at Boston. Second only to DL by a very small margin.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 6):
On the other hand, IB has discovered that their is sufficient O&D traffic for Madrid to both Boston

There's very little O&D between BOS and MAD. The great majority of the traffic is connecting traffic. BOS is a huge market for Europe and IB is taking advantage of it by connecting passengers through their MAD hub.
 
GatoVolador
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting UPPERDECKFAN (Thread starter):
Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

1. According the commercial director, Boston was opened because Iberia identified an unserved business demand from MAD to Massachusetts. Apparently, the Spanish firms related to concessions and public works are opening new subsidiaries there (ACS, FCC, Ferrovial, etc.), so they remarked that BOS could be a good market for the Business Plus product. (High loads in Business is one key factor that makes Iberia decide to run or not a flight, according Mr. Conte.)

2. As others said, Iberia is reorienting their product towards an intercontinental and domestic-from-its-hub carrier, leaving the point to point business to their subsidiary Clickair. Consequently, a growth is expected in the US. Some hours ago, Iberia said that they are expecting the new AA-IB agreement to be initiated at the very beginning of 2008 (january). This implies that IB and AA will share profits in each US - Spain flight operated by any of them, so expect AA or IB to open new routes (the West Coast was mentioned) in some months.

A question to all of us: does anybody is aware of AA & IB intentions? I mean, yesterday Iberia said very ambiguously that they wanted to fly domestic US flights with their own metal from cities such as NYC and / or BOS, and / or ORD, etc. to California, since direct flights still don't have enough demand. However, the US - EU open skies agreement does not allow European Airlines to do that. Consequently, they are studying with AA a legal formula to skip this barrier, and a solution could be having domestic flights operated by IB, but only marketed as AA flights (not a problem, since both airlines would be sharing profits). I wonder if this could be possible.
 
B752OS
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Boston doesn't offer anything that JFK, ORD, MIA, or SJU don't. The flight was to capture O&D between Boston and Europe. There really isn't much O&D to Madrid, but there is a huge amount to Europe, and Iberia is planning on capitalizing on that. Early results are pretty decent, yield is less than stellar, but you can't really judge a new route until after a year.

In the Globe it was mentioned that the early results for the route are good. IB

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):
AA is the second largest carrier at Boston. Second only to DL by a very small margin.

AA carries the most passengers out of BOS. As it has been mentioned, AA has cut back on service quite a bit. SJC, AUS, RIC, FLL, PBI, SNN, SEA, LAS, YUL, MSY all come to mind. However, other airlines have stepped in and picked up the slack, such as B6, AS, and FL. AA does dominate BOS to the West Cost however.

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 12):
Isn't BOS a focus city (though not a hub) for AA? If so, then couldn't the combination of that and BOS's O&D numbers help IB succeed with MAD-BOS service?

Not really, I am sure AA would rather funnel pax through their transit hubs at ORD and DFW. BOS offers no connections that those cities don't. AA does not have that large of a network other than their hubs anymore, aside from some California routes, but those run on pure O&D.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting BOAC911 (Reply 13):
No, not always. IB juggles their A340s around a lot. The A340-300 have been substituted at short noticed by its bigger brother on most IB long-hauls. These are for seasonal adjustments or weekend flights when demand is significantly higher
I fly the route very often, and have seen the equipment switched to the smaller -300 unexpectedly several times.

The thing that is superb about the ORD-MAD flight is the ease of connection it offers for connection passengers at O'Hare. One doesn't need to take the train to Terminal 5, and pass thru security again.

And IB's significantly improved Business Class!! (Business Plus)

...yes, I know they switch between the A343 and A346 during the summer..I should have been a bit more clear...... Smile

my bad...

.....as you can tell, I took that photo from ORD Terminal 3.... Wink

..in fact, the AA B772ER I was on  biggrin  was taken from IB's Terminal-3 Gate, but because of the size of the A346, it can't park at its usual location, especially if there are other AA birds around (which there always are)....

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):

Mark, that's interesting because I always see IB upgrading to an A346 during the summer season..I would assume that loads and yields would be decent enough to take one of their A346's and put it for their ORD flight..

Yes, it is always filled, because they have no problems filling the flight. It still loses money annually. June/July/August are probably a bright spot, and it may even make money during those months, but the flight is a money loser over the span of the year.

...interesting  scratchchin ....I would have thought it was a good money maker for IB...regardless, I'm glad to see them there... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:18 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):

In the Globe it was mentioned that the early results for the route are good. IB

Loads are good, yields aren't. Though that is expected for a new route. It will improve, most likely.
a.
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:00 am

Mark, Im my best knowledge IB is making money with all 3 traditional US destinations --ORD, JFK amd MIA--

Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 19):
This implies that IB and AA will share profits in each US - Spain flight operated by any of them, so expect AA or IB to open new routes (the West Coast was mentioned) in some months.

That's another valid point to take into account.

@ Jacobin: interesting ORD picture ...as usual  Smile
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
BOAC911
Posts: 280
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:14 am

How is IB's Madrid-San Juan doing?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 23):
Mark, Im my best knowledge IB is making money with all 3 traditional US destinations --ORD, JFK amd MIA--

O'Hare as not been profitable since 2000, that I know for a fact. Between 2002 and 2004, the route was performing horribly. It does much better now, but it is still not profitable.
a.
 
BOAC911
Posts: 280
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Between 2002 and 2004, the route was performing horribly

Correct, I flew this route round-trip in April of 2002, and the plane had a load factor of 15 perhaps 20 percent. But so were lots of other planes....not just Iberia's.
 
rwsea
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 10):
Ive wondered why DFW isnt on the radar for either AA or IB. DFW has grown a bit recently and with the demise of DFW-ZRH, I think that makes room for one more player in the DFW-Europe. I think MAD or BRU would be a wise move. DFW has gained alot more connecting flights and the local economy has grown substanitally since either route has been flown from DFW. The market has changed and I think one of the two (MAD or BRU) could work given codeshare opprotunities on both ends.

DFW just isn't a good connecting point for most services to Europe. Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma are really the only decent sources of feed, and DFW certainly couldn't support the flight on O&D alone. From other places (like California), easy connections are available via one of the European hubs, or ATL, JFK, ORD, EWR, PHL, etc. A flight to DFW would only be attractive to a broader market if the fares were very low, but obviously that wouldn't be good for IB.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4460
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:17 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 27):
DFW just isn't a good connecting point for most services to Europe. Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma are really the only decent sources of feed, and DFW certainly couldn't support the flight on O&D alone.

Youre forgetting that the West Coast and Latin America. If its logical to fly LAX/SFO-ATL-MAD, why wouldnt it be logical to fly SFO/LAX-DFW-MAD? There are also lots of connections to Mexico from DFW. Given the connection opprotunities on both ends, I think DFW-MAD could work. As many DL fan boys are quick to point out, many people fly from cities like PIT, ORD, PHL, BWI, IAD, etc. through ATL to Europe. Thats not really logical either, but people do it.

The only other European destinations that could work from DFW are MAD and BRU.
It is what it is...
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 23):
@ Jacobin: interesting ORD picture ...as usual  Smile

LoL...thanks, hopefully I'll more put up soon.... Smile
"Up the Irons!"
 
Flight209
Posts: 49
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:08 am

Jacobin777, for some reason, I don't see your pic(s) in this thread, even when I'm "checked in". Am I supposed to see the shot(s) in this thread, and if so, what should I do to get a look at it/them?
I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 28):
Youre forgetting that the West Coast and Latin America. If its logical to fly LAX/SFO-ATL-MAD, why wouldnt it be logical to fly SFO/LAX-DFW-MAD? There are also lots of connections to Mexico from DFW. Given the connection opprotunities on both ends, I think DFW-MAD could work. As many DL fan boys are quick to point out, many people fly from cities like PIT, ORD, PHL, BWI, IAD, etc. through ATL to Europe. Thats not really logical either, but people do it.

Right, they just as easily could go through DFW instead of ORD or ATL. But is there really that much traffic between the US and Spain - I think that's the question. And based on the fact that any large city west of the Mississippi already has one-stop service to MAD/BCN, and based on the fact that reliable posters have indicated that MAD-ORD loses money, I would say that any DFW service would lose money.
 
BOAC911
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:47 pm

RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 31):
But is there really that much traffic between the US and Spain - I think that's the question

That's not the question. IBERIA now has a first-rate terminal in Madrid, and offers plenty of connections to N. Europe and the Mediterranean. The question revolves around something far more important: How much traffic can OneWorld take away from SkyTeam or Star Alliance?
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):
AA does dominate BOS to the West Cost however.

O RLY?
AA
BOS-LAX 3X daily
BOS-SFO 2X daily
BOS-SAN 1X daily
1128 seats daily-all on 757s
UA
BOS-LAX 2-3X daily
BOS-SFO 5X daily
1456 seats daily-all on 757s

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):
Not really, I am sure AA would rather funnel pax through their transit hubs at ORD and DFW. BOS offers no connections that those cities don't. AA does not have that large of a network other than their hubs anymore, aside from some California routes, but those run on pure O&D.

Yes they do(well one anyways). BGR
 
airbazar
Posts: 6941
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:12 pm

Quoting B752OS (Reply 20):
AA carries the most passengers out of BOS.

Not according to official numbers. According to DOT numbers, over the last year (Mar 06 - Feb 07), AA carried 3,353,000 passengers out of BOS vs. 3,467,000 for DL.
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp?pn=
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Flight209 (Reply 30):
Jacobin777, for some reason, I don't see your pic(s) in this thread, even when I'm "checked in". Am I supposed to see the shot(s) in this thread, and if so, what should I do to get a look at it/them?

Hi Flight209, sometimes the photo web page exceeds its bandwidth, so the photo is no longer up..but I still see it there, in this case, it could be your web browser......

but take it from me, this isn't one photo worth taking the time to deal with... Wink

Its basically an IB A346 parked at AA's K-gate at ORD (which isn't the usual IB-OneWorld L-Gate)
"Up the Irons!"
 
stationmanager
Posts: 70
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 18):
There's very little O&D between BOS and MAD. The great majority of the traffic is connecting traffic. BOS is a huge market for Europe and IB is taking advantage of it by connecting passengers through their MAD hub.

Yeah , you went straight to the point, Portugal, Italy, France, Greece, Israel, etc, MAD is working as focus city or entrance of BOS traffic to southern Europe.

BOS is helping to catch some DFW, LAX, SFO, NYC and of course ORD traffic, route MAD-ORD is really overcrowded.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):

O'Hare as not been profitable since 2000, that I know for a fact. Between 2002 and 2004, the route was performing horribly. It does much better now, but it is still not profitable.

 rotfl  Well, flight is always, what means everyday, overbooked in Y/C and overbooked or almost full everyday in C/C. It seems at least quite profitable, as SKY1 and the thread starter said before.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting StationManager (Reply 36):

BOS is helping to catch some DFW, LAX, SFO, NYC and of course ORD traffic, route MAD-ORD is really overcrowded.



BOS may also help to improve yields some on the ORD and MIA flights, particularly if IB and AA get ATI. AA will often sell cheap tickets ORD-RDU-LGW, both to fill the RDU-LGW flight and to improve the bottom line on ORD-LHR. Not a perfect analogy for a couple of reasons, but certainly an option for IB and AA down the road.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
B752OS
Posts: 608
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 27):
DFW just isn't a good connecting point for most services to Europe. Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma are really the only decent sources of feed, and DFW certainly couldn't support the flight on O&D alone. From other places (like California), easy connections are available via one of the European hubs, or ATL, JFK, ORD, EWR, PHL, etc. A flight to DFW would only be attractive to a broader market if the fares were very low, but obviously that wouldn't be good for IB.

How is ATL a better connecting hub than DFW? Considering IB is a One World partner, DFW would be a much better connecting airport than ATL. So what if the flights could be sustained on O&D alone, you think the bulk of all that European expansion by DL out of ATL works because of O&D? I doubt it very much and would not be surprised if the flights went out with less than 20% O&D. DFW offers a great deal of connections, not only to Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas, but also to Arizona, Nevada, California, Oregon, Washington, Colordo, etc.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 34):
Not according to official numbers. According to DOT numbers, over the last year (Mar 06 - Feb 07), AA carried 3,353,000 passengers out of BOS vs. 3,467,000 for DL.

I stand corrected. I always thought AA carried the most pax, or at least it was reported that they did.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 33):
BOS-LAX 3X daily
BOS-SFO 2X daily
BOS-SAN 1X daily
1128 seats daily-all on 757s

AA added a 4th daily BOS-LAX-BOS flight with a 752. I meant to say that they offer the most destinations. UA recently added a 3rd daily BOS-LAX-BOS flight last year. But I like you stats.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting StationManager (Reply 36):
rotfl Well, flight is always, what means everyday, overbooked in Y/C and overbooked or almost full everyday in C/C. It seems at least quite profitable, as SKY1 and the thread starter said before.

What is there to laugh about? I know, for a fact, that the flight is not profitable. You don't have to believe me, that's fine. It was not profitable in 2006. Maybe for 2007, it will do better. It fills up easily, that does not mean it is profitable.
a.
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:05 pm

Mark, I agree with you in the beginning, ORD was not a profitable route but it was time ago. Both, Station Manager and myself know pretty well how IB works. Remember you was very sceptical when I opened a thread just a few months ago saying IB will open both BOS & IAD as the 2 newest in the US. In a first moment you didn't believe it.

You got any evidence to say ORD is not a profitable destination?

[Edited 2007-06-11 05:08:27]
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 40):
Remember you was very sceptical when I opened a thread just a few months ago saying IB will open both BOS & IAD as the 2 newest in the US. In a first moment you didn't believe it.

Yes, I was, and I am still skeptical that Iberia will be flying to both come October 2008. I believe only one of the two will remain by then.

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 40):
You got any evidence to say ORD is not a profitable destination?

Obviously nothing that I can show here. We are obviously getting our info from different sources, and I have no reason to doubt mine. We'll have to agree to disagree here, even though obviously only one of us is right.
a.
 
SKY1
Posts: 611
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RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:48 pm

...anyhow there is a fact like StationManager said before on the reply 36: The flight is always overbooked and the ocupation is very high in Business Class and Coach. The thread started also said: and most of the times have been impossible to find a seat in J on IB to ORD even booking 4 to 6 wks in advance.

Those are proven facts.
Time flies! Enjoy life!
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Why IB To BOS&IAD Instead Of DFW Or Second ORD?

Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 42):
The thread started also said: and most of the times have been impossible to find a seat in J on IB to ORD even booking 4 to 6 wks in advance.

Those are proven facts.

No, they aren't. A quick check at the flightsavailbility shows open seats on IB's O'Hare-Madrid throughout next week in both classes. In addition, a full flight does not make a profitable flight. The O'Hare-Madrid flight, especially during the summer, experiences very healthy loads.
a.