nzblue
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F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:13 am

Quite a lot of stuff going on in today's Denver Post article:

Frontier plans to add seats, offer e-mail

excerpt:

Passengers on some Frontier Airlines flights who like a little extra legroom might want to be careful where they sit, as the carrier plans to add seats to planes and squeeze seats closer together, particularly in back. While Frontier is installing new trimline leather seats in its planes, which will reduce weight and save on fuel costs, it also plans to add four seats to its A318 and A319 airplanes, according to chief financial officer Paul Tate at the company's analyst and investor summit today.

Frontier has touted its extra legroom, but the margin will narrow as the trimline seats reduce seat pitch to 32 inches from 33 inches on the A318 and A319 planes. Tate said the seats still feel roomy. But several rows in the back will have seats with a 31 inch pitch.

Frontier Airlines also said it plans to offer e-mail and text messaging in flight. Frontier hopes to offer the capability on passengers' own devices such as laptops by the end of this year, Frontier spokesman Joe Hodas said. The service will not offer Web access, he said. "Our feeling is what people really want is access to productivity, which is e-mail, not sort of Web surfing on the plane," Hodas said.

Tate also discussed the airline's consideration of "branded seat inventory," meaning selling extra options to travelers such as Air Canada does.

And for Frontier, "we feel like the hub has kind of reached a maturity level as far as depth and breadth of it," Happ said. Separately, he said Frontier plans to take a "year off" from Acapulco service.


[Edited 2007-06-07 22:14:55]
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COERJ145
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:28 am

I hope the new seats have adjustable headrests like the current ones do. Also looking at other carriers A319 configs i'm betting F9 will add the 4 seats in front of the exit row, making the window seats behind it have no seat in front of them. I'm annoyed the overall seat pitch will go down.
 
alexinwa
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:15 am

OK help me out here......they are adding only 4 seats, but somehow that takes the pitch of the entire plane down to 32' and some 31' pitch???

What am I missing?
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EXAAUADL
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 2):
OK help me out here......they are adding only 4 seats, but somehow that takes the pitch of the entire plane down to 32' and some 31' pitch???

Looks like they are adding a row, the 4 seats might be added over the emergency exit which row might be only 2x2 not 3x3
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Alexinwa (Reply 2):
What am I missing?

It may be what the reporter is missing. It may be Ms. Yamanouchi has other information, but the news was given at the Frontier Analysts Summit in Denver.

I've listened to part of the conference call (about the seats), and I didn't hear - or haven't yet heard - anyone say that there would be 31" pitch.

It was said that, because of the new slim line design seats, between 12% to 16% of the seats will have 32" pitch. Now, it may also be that that on the smaller A318 this goes down to 31" pitch for a couple of the back rows, but I haven't heard that said.

I dunno. Maybe I've missed something.

mariner
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F9Animal
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting NZblue (Thread starter):
And for Frontier, "we feel like the hub has kind of reached a maturity level as far as depth and breadth of it," Happ said. Separately, he said Frontier plans to take a "year off" from Acapulco service.

That comment kind of has me left with a few ???'s.
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alphascan
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:39 am

Sorry M. Christie got it right and some of the back rows will be a miserable 31". The rest 32". CFO Tate's words in his part of the presentation.

Beware of airline execs who say that less seat pitch will be not noticable. A whole different animal is quickly becoming a normal animal. A very sad day.
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 6):
Sorry M. Christie got it right and some of the back rows will be a miserable 31". The rest 32". CFO Tate's words in his part of the presentation.

I'm sure you're right, A. I'll listen to the rest of it this evening.

It still doesn't quite make sense to me. Like Alexinwa - post #2 - I feel I'm missing something. I assume we're sending emails to Joe Hodas?


mariner
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mcg
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:17 am

I have to say that this sounds bad. It seems like F9 is giving me progressivly fewer reasons to choose them at opposed to the other airlines at DIA. Shrinking the pitch to squeeze in four seats is silly. Those seats will only occasionally be occupied by a paying customer but will significantly reduce the quality of the experiance for every customer every day. I see fewer and fewer reasons to take my business to F9.
 
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting Mcg (Reply 8):
I see fewer and fewer reasons to take my business to F9.

Hmmm? That's odd. If you're just talking about "the other airlines at DIA", then at 32" the pitch is better than UniTED, about the same as Southwest.

Then there's the PTV's in every seat with individual email and texting coming. So - I wonder what are the "fewer" reasons are.

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-08 03:31:21]
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mcg
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:38 am

One of the other airlines in town offers economy plus seating with 35 or 36 inch pitch, the opportunity to upgrade to first class and an outstanding frequent flyer program.

Please don't misunderstand, I want F9 to succeed. They've offered a great product, have wonderful employees, run a first-class operation and provided and excellent element of competition in the local airline market. If this announcement is true it will simply have the effect of diminishing their product (and I'm still hacked off about not getting the whole can of soda  Smile! ).
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Mcg (Reply 10):
(and I'm still hacked off about not getting the whole can of soda  ! ).

All you have to do is ask.  Smile

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F9Widebody
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduct

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:13 am

Why put the worst in the back? Jetblue does it right....put the better legroom in the back, and let those who want it wait a little longer to get off the plane, while those who could care less can sit in row 2 can get off 30 secs after hitting the gate.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 4):
It may be Ms. Yamanouchi has other information

For being the Denver Post's sole aviation writer, I feel she does a remarkably poor job. Her articles are generally very poorly written and just leave you with more questions than answers. Some excerpts from this one:

"Seat pitch is the distance between a passenger's seat and the seat in front."

Very poorly explained. Seems if you listen to her that there will be 31" of gap between seats. In reality, it is the distance between a point on one seat and the identical point on the seat in front.

"Separately, he said Frontier plans to take a "year off" from its service to Acapulco, Mexico."

Explanation?

Quoting Mariner (Reply 9):
then at 32" the pitch is better than UniTED

Not for frequent flyers. Try convincing a UA FF who gets E+ consistently to try F9's service and avoid RJs when the legroom is actually better in E+ on the RJ.

Used to be a great benefit of Frontier, yet they are throwing it all away for a measly four seats that I don't see them regularly filling anyway. How often does a Frontier flight go out without four seats empty?
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 12):
For being the Denver Post's sole aviation writer, I feel she does a remarkably poor job.

I prefer her to Chris Welsh at the Rocky Mountain News. She has less "technical" knowledge than he, but she seems to take a more balanced view.

I miss David Kesmodel, who used to write for the RMN.

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 12):
Explanation?

I assume that the Narco Wars in Acapulco - with headless bodies washed up on beaches and cops shot in the street - are taking their toll on the present tourism.

Maybe?

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-08 04:20:45]
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clickhappy
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:51 pm

I will continue to fly F9, I have had great luck with them. If some rows have less pitch I will use a site like SeatGuru to help me pick the right row. Lucky row 13 always seems to do me well, was on a very full flight on Friday and the middle seat was open, like it almost always is. Frontier takes care of their flyers, and will continue to get my business when it makes sense.

While booking a ticket today I noticed they are doing a 1,000 mile bonus for the next week when you book at frontierairlines.com
 
F9Animal
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting Mcg (Reply 10):
Please don't misunderstand, I want F9 to succeed. They've offered a great product, have wonderful employees, run a first-class operation and provided and excellent element of competition in the local airline market. If this announcement is true it will simply have the effect of diminishing their product (and I'm still hacked off about not getting the whole can of soda Smile! ).

The product will still be great, the employees will still be wonderful, and Frontier will continue to run a first-class operation. The only real difference is the slight recline in the seat. The other difference is the ability for Frontier to add a few extra seats to increase revenue. They seem to be compensating this difference with the opportunity to stay in touch with email and texting. This enhancement will certainly be a bonus for those of us who live with our email. Just another benefit for business travelers especially.

As for your soda experience, I find that odd. They could have been low on the type and were trying to conserve. I have always gotten a whole can, but I usually ask anyways.
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alexinwa
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:36 pm

For me pitch is a big issue..........not text or email.

My comfort, being big at over 6'2" is more important than an email. Just like my phone calls can wait, so can the text and emails.

And still only over 4 seats to disrupt the entire rest of the a/c seems a little harsh.

I love F9, I have from the start,......but lately the fares are not that good and with this, it makes them "normal"!!!
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floridaflyboy
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:44 pm

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 16):
I love F9, I have from the start,......but lately the fares are not that good and with this, it makes them "normal"!!!

I know what you mean. I used to get stellar deals on F9 and flew with them all the time. But, lately, DL, UA, and NW are almost always much much cheaper out of BIL all the time.
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USAFHummer
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 12):
Why put the worst in the back?

'Cause F9 reserves the front of the cabin for Ascent/Summit Early Returns members to claim in advance when booking...B6, with its one-tiered FF program, doesnt have to worry about elite benefits like that...
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UN_B732
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:55 pm

Actually, jetBlue changed it. Now the front has the best pitch, and the back has worse pitch.. don't ask me why.
-A
What now?
 
geotrash
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:40 pm

Not pleased at all with the seat pitch change. At more than 6' 1", the extra inch in pitch makes a difference on a longer flight for me. I'll reserve final judgement for when I actually get to try them out, but for me the seat pitch was a deal maker. Losing that might make it a deal breaker and push me back to United's economy plus seats.

Dave
 
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:11 pm

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 6):
some of the back rows will be a miserable 31".

Doesn't the slimline seats have that clever thing that even if the seats are spaced at 31" the actual knee-room is 33"?

If so, the back row won't be so bad after all. Or will the seats be spaced at 29" and actual knee-room will be only 31"?
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Jerseyguy
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:04 pm

Frontier Airlines doesn't care about tall people  thumbsdown 
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kingcavalier
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting AlexInWa (Reply 16):
And still only over 4 seats to disrupt the entire rest of the a/c seems a little harsh.

Frontier plans on bringing in an extra $10 million in revenue in the first year with these 4 seats. Doesn't seem harsh to me.

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 17):
I used to get stellar deals on F9 and flew with them all the time. But, lately, DL, UA, and NW are almost always much much cheaper out of BIL all the time.

This is a good thing for Frontier. That means Frontier's planes are full. The lowest fares are gone and Frontier is able to charge a premium.

Quoting Geotrash (Reply 20):
At more than 6' 1", the extra inch in pitch makes a difference on a longer flight for me. I'll reserve final judgement for when I actually get to try them out

That is fair. The seat pitch will still be better than most Coach cabins. Let's also not forget that the average passenger does not choose their flights based on seat pitch. $$$$$
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FCYTravis
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 23):
The seat pitch will still be better than most Coach cabins.

Ah... no. 31" is bog-standard coach pitch, and is noticeably worse than Southwest's standard pitch or UA's Economy Plus product, which just happen to be Frontier's two major competitors at its DEN hubsite.
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kingcavalier
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 24):
Ah... no. 31" is bog-standard coach pitch

This is only a few rows towards the back. The majority of the cabin will be 32 inches or better.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
hiflyer
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:12 pm

F9 mgt is not dumb....they know they are matching standard ecy with this move....the trouble is that other carriers are matching and now beating some of their fares to the point they reported a loss. So...you add more seats to get the most revenue out of each flight....they are hoping for 10 million.
 
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 24):
UA's Economy Plus product, which just happen to be Frontier's two major competitors at its DEN hubsite.

As far as UA vs. F9 is concerned, I don't think its accurate to single out just the Y+ aspect of UA when comparing them to F9...Y+ is meaningless to the majority of travelers who don't have UA elite status or arent willing to shell out $300 for Y+ Access
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UnknownUser
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduct

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 9):
then at 32" the pitch is better than UniTED

Thanks for the laugh... this is the equivalent of F9, you are justifying that the best they have to offer is 32" so it makes up for someone who is stuck in 31". UA E+ makes up for the rest of the plane.

If anyone has sat in row 22 on F9, you know how freaking miserable it is. No recline and the guy in front is in your face.
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kingcavalier
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting USAFHummer (Reply 27):
Y+ is meaningless to the majority of travelers who don't have UA elite status or arent willing to shell out $300 for Y+ Access

That is true. You can only compare true Coach cabins (No other cabins such F, C, or Economy Plus that can cost extra)

AirTran Boeing 717-200 (717) 30.0"
AirTran Boeing 737-700 (737) 31.0"
Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-400 (734) 32.0"
Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-700 (73G) 32.0"
Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-800 (73H) 32.0"
Alaska Airlines Boeing 737-900 (739) 32.0"
Alaska Airlines McDon. Doug. MD-80 (M80) 32.0"
America West Airbus A319 (319) 30-32.0"
America West Airbus A320 (320) 30-32.0"
America West Boeing 737-300 (733) 30-32.0"
America West Boeing 757-200 (757) 30-32.0"
American Airlines Airbus A300 (AB6) 32.0"
American Airlines Boeing 737-800 (738) 31-32.0"
American Airlines Boeing 757-200 Ex-TWA (757) 31.0"
American Airlines Boeing 757-200 (757) 32.0"
American Airlines Boeing 767-200 (767, 762) 32.0"
American Airlines McDon. Doug. Super-80/83 (S80) 31-33.0"
ATA Boeing 737-300 (733) 32.0"
ATA Boeing 737-800 2-class (738) 29.0-32.0"
ATA Boeing 737-800 (738) 31-32.0"
ATA Boeing 757-200 (752) 32-33.0"
ATA Boeing 757-300 (753) 32-33.0"
ATA Boeing 757-300 (753) 32-33.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 737-300 (733) 31.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 737-500 (735) 31.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 737-700 (73G) 31.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 737-800 Vers. 1 (738) 31.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 737-800 Vers. 2 (738) 31.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 737-900 (739) 31.0"
Continental Airlines ** Boeing 757-200 (752) 31.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 757-300 24-First (753) 32.0"
Continental Airlines ** Boeing 767-200 (762) 32.0"
Continental Airlines Boeing 767-400 Hawaii (767) 32.0"
Delta Air Lines Boeing 737-800 (738) 32.0"
Delta Air Lines Boeing 757-200 Transcontinental (757) 31.0"
Delta Air Lines Boeing 757-200 2-Class (757) 31.0"
Delta Air Lines Boeing 767-300 US (763) 30-33.0"
Delta Air Lines ** Boeing 767-300ER Intl. (763) 31-32.0"
Delta Air Lines Boeing 767-400ER (764) 31-33.0"
Delta Air Lines ** Boeing 777-200 (777) 31-33.0"
Delta Air Lines McDon. Doug. MD-88 (M80) 31-33.0"
Delta Air Lines McDon. Doug. MD-90 (M90) 30-32.0"
Hawaiian Airlines Boeing 717-200 (717) 30-31.0"
Hawaiian Airlines Boeing 767-300 (763) 32.0"
JetBlue Airbus A320 (320) 34-36.0"
Midwest Airlines Boeing 717-200 (717) 32.0"
Midwest Airlines McDon. Doug. MD-82 (M82) 33.0"
Midwest Airlines McDon. Doug. MD-82 Saver (M82) 33.0"
Midwest Airlines McDon. Doug. MD-88 Saver (M88) 33.0"
Northwest Airlines Airbus A319 (319) 30-32.0"
Northwest Airlines Airbus A320 (320, 32T, 32V) 31-32.0"
Northwest Airlines Boeing 757-200 Vers. 1 (757, 755) 31-33.0"
Northwest Airlines Boeing 757-200 Vers. 2 (757, 756) 30-32.0"
Northwest Airlines Boeing 757-300 (753, 758) 30-32.0"
Northwest Airlines McDon. Doug. DC-9-30 (D9S) 30.0"
Northwest Airlines McDon. Doug. DC-9-40 (D94) 30-31.0"
Northwest Airlines McDon. Doug. DC-9-50 (D95) 30-31.0"
Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-300 (733) 32.0-33.0"
Spirit Airlines Airbus A319 (319) 31-33.0"
Spirit Airlines Airbus A321 (321) 31-33.0"
United Airlines Airbus A319 (319) 31.0"
United Airlines Airbus A320 TED (32S) 31.0"
United Airlines Airbus A320 (320) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 737-300 US 1 (733) 32.0"
United Airlines Boeing 737-300 US 2 (733) 32.0"
United Airlines Boeing 737-500 US 1 (735) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 737-500 US 2 (735) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 747-400 (744) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 757-200 (752) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 767-300 US (763) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 777-200 WW 1 (777 XP) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 777-200 WW 2 (777 XC/XI) 31.0"
United Airlines Boeing 777-200 US (777) 31.0"
US Airways Airbus A319 (319) 30.0"
US Airways Airbus A320 (320) 30.0"
US Airways Airbus A321 (321) 32.0"
US Airways Boeing 737-300 (733) 31.0"
US Airways Boeing 737-400 (734) 31.0"
US Airways Boeing 757-200 (757) 32.0"
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alphascan
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:13 am

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 23):
Frontier plans on bringing in an extra $10 million in revenue in the first year with these 4 seats.

I'll bet they didn't figure on losing passengers in their pro forma. I have gone out of my way to fly F9 on westbound trips for the last six years and earned elite status in their award-winning (but realistically so-so) FFP. They are now giving me less reason to make the effort.
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F9Widebody
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 29):
Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-300 (733) 32.0-33.0"

That's pretty key......
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kingcavalier
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 31):
That's pretty key......

Maybe. That's debatable. Frontier still offer much more amenities. Plus, it appears from the news lately that Southwest's strategy is not working.


Here's a little article with a short video clip -

http://cw2.trb.com/news/kwgn-frontie...s,0,2461786.story?coll=kwgn-home-2
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
kingcavalier
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 30):
I'll bet they didn't figure on losing passengers in their pro forma.

We don't know if they did, but Frontier's mgmt is pretty sharp. The $10 million dollars in increased revenue is for the first year. They predict over $16 million in increased revenue during the second fiscal year.

The 4 additional seats on the 318's and 319's will offer a total of 240 new seats. That's the equivalent of 2 new mainline aircraft.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
alexinwa
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:34 am

Ok Ok, I get that it is a good business plan...............It makes F9 just like any other airline to me.

Quoting KingCavalier (Reply 23):
That is fair. The seat pitch will still be better than most Coach cabins. Let's also not forget that the average passenger does not choose their flights based on seat pitch. $$$$$

This I would also agree with,......for now. F9 made a name for itself with the extra room and great one-class service. It's going to get to a point where pitch will be an issue for everyone, not just us big people. UA's E+ is a little proof of that, granted alot is due to making more $$ for the privilege of more comfort.

F9 could replace the 318 and 319's, with 320's!!! Go back to 33'+ pitch and make a heck of alot more money due to what 20 or so more seats??? How many new a/c would that add up to?
You mad Bro???
 
geotrash
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:00 am

Quote:
F9 mgt is not dumb....they know they are matching standard ecy with this move....the trouble is that other carriers are matching and now beating some of their fares to the point they reported a loss. So...you add more seats to get the most revenue out of each flight....they are hoping for 10 million.

The math isn't quite that simple. Adding more seats does not mean that they will actually carry more passengers in a given year. They have to balance the slight increase in capacity with the loss of high revenue passengers like me who may defect to airlines who offer more room...particularly in Denver where United is the other dominant carrier.

Dave
 
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clickhappy
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:18 am

I don't understand all these posts that say you are going to switch to United since Frontier is going with a 32" pitch. If room was that important to you then you would already be flying Economy Plus on UA (36" pitch on A320/757 35" on A319s) or sticking with Frontier, since their 32" pitch is still more than the 31" UA gives you in Coach.

UA offers more room (E + Plus) or less room (E) than F9. Changing from a 33" pitch to a 32" pich does not change this.
 
geotrash
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 36):
I don't understand all these posts that say you are going to switch to United since Frontier is going with a 32" pitch. If room was that important to you then you would already be flying Economy Plus on UA (36" pitch on A320/757 35" on A319s) or sticking with Frontier, since their 32" pitch is still more than the 31" UA gives you in Coach.

That's a fair question. Right now, I find Frontier's seat pitch to be comfortable enough for me to handle a 4 hour flight without my knees hurting. I can stretch out my legs under the seat in front of me. I can read a magazine, book or newspaper without contorting too much, even if the person in front of me reclines.

On aircraft such as Lufthansa's 747s where the seat pitch is 31" or 32", the bar at the bottom of the seat in front of me prevents me from stretching my legs out. When the person in front of me reclines, it's uncomfortable for me to hold a book to read. Essentially, Frontier's 33" seat pitch is just enough for me to be comfortable at 6'1" and 250 lbs. Any less and it will likely push me back to United. I have Premier exec. status there from all of my international flying anyway, so the switch will be easy.

The $64,000 question for Frontier is, how much business will they lose from passengers who will find the new seats uncomfortable in order to have 4 more seats available on every flight. Most flights I'm on have a few empty seats anyway, so the only question that really matters is whether it will actually result in more revenue passengers flown, with all factors considered.

Dave
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 30):
I have gone out of my way to fly F9 on westbound trips for the last six years



Quoting Alphascan (Reply 30):
They are now giving me less reason to make the effort.

So you will choose Northwest or United instead?

You will ignore all the other benefits you get as an elite ? You once wrote a post about that - you said it made you feel like one in a million.

And you will make this decision before you have even tried the new seats?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 5):
That comment kind of has me left with a few ???'s.

And the answers to those questions are quite interesting, F9Animal, but I think people probably just want to talk about seats.  

What it means - I think - is that Frontier is very happy with the mainline route map they have from DEN - for domestic. All the major markets are served, and now now they need to expand in other areas to boost revenue.

That statement, coupled with the slowdown in mainline aircraft deliveries over the next couple of years, means there won't be much mainline domestic expansion.

SJC-SJD and SMF-SJD are both going daily next October, but if DEN-GSP does happen, for example, it will be E170.

The mainline expansion will be Mexico/international, which will will rise to about 25% of their business within 18 months, and some "connecting the domestic dots".

The real DEN growth will come from Lynx and the E170's and yes, it will be DEN centered. There will not be a second domestic hub.

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-08 21:43:30]
aeternum nauta
 
geotrash
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:23 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
And the answers to those questions are quite interesting, F9Animal, but I think people probably just want to talk about seats.

It is a potentially significant issue, Mariner. Of course, it's just one among many factors that influence passengers' decision to choose one airline over another. Friendliness, ticket price, perception of the airline's quality of service, seat comfort, schedule, FF program, etc. are all key factors, and I give Frontier high marks in all categories.

So let's expand this a little bit and look at a few more factors as they relate to me and likely other frequent business travelers:

Schedule: Both F9 and United serve the cities I travel to most either directly or through code/ff program sharing, with the exception of international. Verdict: United (with international being 25% of my travel).

FF Program: F9 has an excellent program with low mileage points for free travel, but it's limited to North American destinations. F9 also has much more flexible scheduling for FF tickets with fewer blackouts. United's allows me to use miles for international destinations. Verdict: Draw (for my needs).

Price: F9 is almost always cheaper for my trips, but I have a fair amount of latitude and can accept United fares in most cases. Verdict: Frontier

Friendliness Highly subjective, but I find F9 to be a friendlier, more service-driven airline overall. Verdict: Frontier.

Comfort Subjective for each passenger, but for me Frontier has been adequate with United offering a clear advantage in E+. Verdict: Soon to be United.

Certainly others will set their priorities on other factors than I will, but comfort is the most significant factor for me (within $200 per ticket tolerance), and so it becomes the watershed factor. The question is how many others will feel the same way and make a switch? It could be a "tipping point" issue for F9.

Cheers,
Dave
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:43 am

Quoting Geotrash (Reply 40):
Comfort Subjective for each passenger, but for me Frontier has been adequate with United offering a clear advantage in E+. Verdict: Soon to be United.

As Clickhappy said, I'm not sure why anyone is comparing Frontier's Economy with United's E Plus.

That advantage to United already exists. You get better legroom in E Plus already. Nothing changes.

Quoting Geotrash (Reply 40):
The question is how many others will feel the same way and make a switch?

I have no idea, and I am not going to "defend" Frontier's new seats, because I haven't tried 'em. I have seen photos and videos of them, and dickie birds who have tried them have sung their praises to me. But I don't know this from personal experience - Frontier doesn't fly to AKL.

Still, I have followed the airline fairly closely since 1999, and I have not yet known them make a decision which would seriously mar a pssenger's comfort. The reverse has been true.

But hey, there's a first time for everything.

What can I say? If United suits your needs or comfort better, I wish you happy journeys.

mariner

[Edited 2007-06-08 22:47:59]
aeternum nauta
 
A330300
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:51 am

Frontier's current 33 inch pitch is certainly generous, but anyone notice how THICK the current seats are? If Frontier can pull off 31 inch pitch with the same amount of actual leg room using slimline seats, then I don't see what the big deal is. Certainly the marketing advantage will be diminished, but wouldn't expect people to notice a big difference on board.
 
Juan911411
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 19):
Actually, jetBlue changed it. Now the front has the best pitch, and the back has worse pitch.. don't ask me why.
-A

I know what you are trying to say. but if you ever were on B6 before the seat change nothing has change in the back rows the only place that has change is the front were the the seat pitch in now 36 inches in the first 11 rows, and at least 34 inches in rows 12 to 25
 
kingcavalier
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting A330300 (Reply 42):
If Frontier can pull off 31 inch pitch with the same amount of actual leg room using slimline seats, then I don't see what the big deal is.

I think I read where 31 inches is only in the last 4 rows. The current seats are really thick. So, there might not be a noticable difference in leg room with 32 inches and a slimmer seat.

Quoting A330300 (Reply 42):
Certainly the marketing advantage will be diminished

True, but Frontier has a lot more stuff to be proud of (brag about).

There is a reason AA abandoned MRTC.

It's time Frontier consisently made a profit again, and from where I sit, Frontier's management is on the right track.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
 
mkirch72
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 14):
will continue to fly F9, I have had great luck with them. If some rows have less pitch I will use a site like SeatGuru to help me pick the right row. Lucky row 13 always seems to do me well, was on a very full flight on Friday and the middle seat was open, like it almost always is. Frontier takes care of their flyers, and will continue to get my business when it makes sense.

As someone who is 6'5, every bit of space is of utmost importance. This is a VERY slippery slope! First this, then before you know it they end up like Skybus with 28" of seat pitch.
 
COERJ145
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 41):

I have no idea, and I am not going to "defend" Frontier's new seats, because I haven't tried 'em. I have seen photos and videos of them, and dickie birds who have tried them have sung their praises to me.

Do they have the adjustable headreasts like the old ones do?
 
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mariner
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 46):
Do they have the adjustable headreasts like the old ones do?

Sorry, I couldn't tell on the video - no one was sitting in the seats, they were set up in a hangar.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
thirteenright
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 45):
As someone who is 6'5, every bit of space is of utmost importance. This is a VERY slippery slope! First this, then before you know it they end up like Skybus with 28" of seat pitch.

I can't help but agree ... this is a tricky move!

(by the way, this is my first post in my new name! used to be FA4B6)
 
A330300
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RE: F9: 4 More Seats, In-Flight E-Mail, ACA Reduction

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:46 pm

Looks like the new seats will be arriving on N812FR - green leather with black seatbelts, adjustable headrests. Should be arriving in DEN from MCO (LiveTV) on 6/27.

An article mentions that the seats will still be from BE Aerospace - I'm guessing these may be the very comfortable Spectrum seats that Independence Air had on board their aircraft....