kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:38 am

I knew it, I see it every week, and still people bash FR, most of them have never flown FR anyway.
Keep on dreaming guys.... They can call me anytime, I'll work for them.



http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news....r=07&month=jun&story=gen-en-070607


RYANAIR NO 1 AGAIN FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE


Ryanair, Europe’s largest airline, today (7th June) welcomed the publication of the Q1 consumer report from the Association of European Airlines. This report demonstrates that no other airline can match Ryanair’s punctuality and customer service.

Speaking today, Peter Sherrard, Ryanair’s Head of Communications said:

“The high fare airlines simply can’t compete with Ryanair on price or on customer service either. These latest statistics prove that Ryanair is Europe’s undisputed leader, with the best punctuality, the fewest lost bags and the least cancellations. Only Ryanair guarantees the lowest fares and delivers number one customer service.”


Source: Ryanair, Easyjet, Aer Lingus and AEA published statistics Jan-Mar 2007
 
BAxMAN
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 7:51 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
They can call me anytime, I'll work for them

You do realise that, knowing FR, this will be a collect call?
I need to get laid
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:17 am

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
They can call me anytime, I'll work for them

Me too but they can't afford me!  Smile
John Hancock
 
JoeCattoli
Posts: 492
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:06 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:25 am

I think they are doing a great job, I would like they would give a little more rights to their crew but I think they are good paid so I should need to know a little more to give a valid opinion.

Ciao Joe
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 1):
You do realise that, knowing FR, this will be a collect call?

FR, you can email me.......  Smile
 
EI564
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:05 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
I knew it, I see it every week, and still people bash FR, most of them have never flown FR anyway.
Keep on dreaming guys.... They can call me anytime, I'll work for them.

Its not that I want to be cynical but can people say that FR's statistics are definitely accurate? They may define things differently.
 
icarus75
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting EI564 (Reply 5):
people say that FR's statistics are definitely accurate?

Seeing the false/not accurate informations we can find on the website, I tend to agree with you!  Wink
Flying is amazing!
 
ryanairCRL
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting EI564 (Reply 5):
can people say that FR's statistics are definitely accurate?

These are the 3 categories that are shown in the press conference:

> Punctuality
> Missing bags per 1,000 pax
> % Completions

Although the 1st one can be a bit cheated, saying that 15min delay is considered on-time and so-on. But then again, all airlines can do it, not only FR.
For the other 2 categories, I don't really know how you could cheat the statistics, especially the % of completion, which truly shows that FR cancels the least flights.

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 6):
Seeing the false/not accurate informations we can find on the website, I tend to agree with you!

Sad how every single topic about FR turns into a FR-bashing. If you don't like FR, don't read the posts about FR.
http://flyingtom.myphotoalbum.com
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:29 pm

Well you see the difference is people know what FR are like and they know if they make a complaint they will most likely get nowhere so they don't complain...... hence why FR seems to be the best for customer service. Frankly I'm not sure I'd call it customer service, Just a service.
John Hancock
 
smokeyrosco
Posts: 1441
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 7):
For the other 2 categories, I don't really know how you could cheat the statistics, especially the % of completion, which truly shows that FR cancels the least flights.

The fact that FR doesn't have any baggage transfer is a bit of a cheat I would think... but thats just my personal opinion
John Hancock
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 6):
Quoting EI564 (Reply 5):
people say that FR's statistics are definitely accurate?

Seeing the false/not accurate informations we can find on the website, I tend to agree with you!

guess you missed something: It said : the publication of the Q1 consumer report from the Association of European Airlines.
 
bAe146TOM
Posts: 215
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:26 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:23 pm

its because i now work for them  Wink

Tom
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 9):
The fact that FR doesn't have any baggage transfer is a bit of a cheat I would think... but thats just my personal opinion

It's a result of their business model. Another result is that they have a higher on-time ratio. They made a choice of only offering point-to-point flights.

From a customer point of view, the reason why you bag has been lost or not, is not interesting at all.
 
EI564
Posts: 193
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 9:05 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 10):
guess you missed something: It said : the publication of the Q1 consumer report from the Association of European Airlines.

That's why I was a little cyncial. The source of the data is " Ryanair, Easyjet, Aer Lingus and AEA published statistics Jan-Mar 2007". The FR stuff comes from FR, EI from EI etc and the rest from AEA presumably. Although i'm sure the AEA stuff comes from their member airlines, so effectively all the information comes from airlines own stats.

I've always meant to compare FR's punctuality with the stuff on CAA's website but never bothered. (I've heard they seem to differ). That would be an independent analysis at least.
 
Steve332
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:58 pm

I flew FR last Friday and to be honest once again it was dreadful, The crew were nice I'll give them that much credit but we were on the ramp at DUB but almost an hour before we eventually left the gate ("The on-time airline" anyone????) and it took the guts of an hour for the food service to reach me (on a 737, come on!!! its hardly a jumbo jet now is it?).
I dont hide the fact that I'm not FR's biggest fan and I still have never booked a flight with them myself everytime iv flown them its been a friend who's booked it. I honestly find it hard to believe that these results are accurate, they're probably not the worst airline in the world but certainly the worst iv ever flown.

And with regards to being the cheapest, I flew back on Monday night with EI and that flight was almost €20 cheaper than the FR flight we got, and its not the 1st time!!  Wink
 
JRadier
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
number one customer service

One hell of a narrow definition of customer service tho....... My Logistics book ("Werken met Logistiek" from Visser en Van Goor) states customer service as "A successful customer service requires the realization of specific customer wishes besides short delivery times and high delivery accuracy" (sentence rearranged for clarity). Furthermore it says: "In reality there can be a large difference between the companies perception of it's customer service and the actual service as seen by the customer".

Quoting EI564 (Reply 5):
They may define things differently.

As they say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 7):
These are the 3 categories that are shown in the press conference:

because that's where they score  Wink
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
bennett123
Posts: 7456
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:15 pm

Well Mr Sherrard, if the other airlines are dearer and offer poorer service why do you think that they do not fly FR.

Do you think that your potential customers are really that stupid or is there more to it.
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting JRadier (Reply 15):
One hell of a narrow definition of customer service tho.

Of course, every airline will show the aspects of customer service in their yearly reviews that fits them best. However, the on-time percentage, the number of lost bags, and the number of completion are criteria that can be measured very well. It's way more difficult to quantify the smile you get from the F/A, the warm colours in the cabin, or the good feeling you get from 'free' coffee.

It would be interesting to measure a pan-european customer satisfaction level through an independent customer interview research, similar to the way Dutch Railways are measured. Would be a hell of an interview though, and I don't see anybody willing to pay this.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 15):
"Werken met Logistiek" from Visser en Van Goor

Can you please refrain from mentioning that book again?  Wink I don't think it's a good book anyways, as the authors don't even attempt to prove any statement they mention, by references to literature or whatever. Just like A.net posts  Wink
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 17):
However, the on-time percentage, the number of lost bags, and the number of completion are criteria that can be measured very well.

That's true, however the claim that you "deliver number one customer service" is bold, very bold considering the factors

Quoting Joost (Reply 17):

Can you please refrain from mentioning that book again? Wink I don't think it's a good book anyways, as the authors don't even attempt to prove any statement they mention, by references to literature or whatever.

Got to agree there, but it's on my booklist (together with 'Werken met Distributielogistiek' which is a tad better, but not by much). What do you study?
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
ryanairCRL
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Steve332 (Reply 14):
we were on the ramp at DUB but almost an hour before we eventually left the gate

Is it FR's fault if you got a slot? I beleive it was a slot as there isn't much other reason for a 1h delay. Except a technical problem but I'm sure you'd have mentioned it had it been the case.

Quoting Steve332 (Reply 14):
it took the guts of an hour for the food service to reach me

I sincerely doubt it took 1h for the crews to reach your seat, even if you were sitting right in the middle.
As opposed to the service on a jumbo jet, we actually sell all the stuff which takes a lot longer than saying "Beef or chicken". You were flying on a Friday, probably afternoon or evening, so I'm sure your flight was quite full and there were lots of families which make service even longer as they have to go through the menu with the kids, sometimes we've run out of what they request so they have to think some more, then there is the payment. This does takes some time. I don't know where you were flying but if it was to the UK or a non-€ country, than the payment process is a bit longer as well. All together, on a very busy flight, yes it can easily take up to 30-35min for the service to be done.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 9):
The fact that FR doesn't have any baggage transfer is a bit of a cheat I would think

Sorry, I don't quite get the meaning of your "no baggage transfer".

Quoting Steve332 (Reply 14):
I flew back on Monday night with EI and that flight was almost €20 cheaper than the FR flight we got, and its not the 1st time!!

which FR flights are you comparing it to? The one from the Friday? If so, then you can't compared them as it isn't the same day. I'm not saying that FR is always the cheapest. But if you want to compare flight fares you have to take the same day. Of course week-end flights will be more expensive than week flights and other airlines will do special promotion.
http://flyingtom.myphotoalbum.com
 
Steve332
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 19):
I beleive it was a slot as there isn't much other reason for a 1h delay. Except a technical problem

Captain never said what it was, considering I'm a plane geek I can be certain it was a slot issue but once again we were not told a thing only that "we're gonna be here for another while"

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 19):
I sincerely doubt it took 1h for the crews to reach your seat

No joke mate it did, When I eventually got served we were just about to stat our descent, I was flying Dublin - Malaga by the way

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 19):
You were flying on a Friday, probably afternoon or evening, so I'm sure your flight was quite full and there were lots of families

Morning and yeah it was full, Still no excuse for the time taken for service in my opinion

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 19):
which FR flights are you comparing it to?

The FR flight on the Monday, to be honest we wouldn't have got it regardless of the price because it was too early in the day, it left about 1 I think, the EI flight was 11pm. Big time difference I know but thats the best comparison I got for ya
 
peterinlisbon
Posts: 842
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:36 am

Punctuality
They fly to small airports where there are less delays.

Missing bags per 1,000 pax
Small airports>less bags going through the system (perhaps they are the only flight)>less lost bags

They benefit statistically from the fact that they fly into smaller airports. It is not really a reflection on the efficiency of Ryanair. In any case, punctuality and missing bag statistics are not really what most people would consider customer service. Customer service is how they treat their customers and their customer service is minimal to say the least.
 
User avatar
Embajador3
Posts: 154
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting Steve332 (Reply 14):
it took the guts of an hour for the food service to reach me

Well, with a maximun load of 189pax. it may take some time to serve everyone. I believe that is not an airline issue, it happens on all airlines (not if you are flying Eastern Airways mosquitoes, of course).
Crew was nice as you said, you got your food and landed safely at your chosen destination... so the only reason why the flight was dreadful is 'cos of the delay?
 sarcastic 
Flying Together
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Euro

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:09 pm

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
with the best punctuality

Interestingly, LH or AF aren't that bad considering that FR mostly uses uncongested airports.

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
the fewest lost bags

A classic apples to oranges comparison. It's much harder to lose bags if these don't get transferred.

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
the least cancellations.

That's great - but then I prefer a carrier which cancels some more flights and then actually takes care of the stranded passengers.


Also, the definition of "customer service" is FR-made here. Sounds a bit like defining a Dacia Logan 1.4 with rear spoiler, aloy rims and a chrome plated exhaust pipe as a "sports car"...  Wink


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
RightWayUp
Posts: 80
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:19 pm

KL911
"guess you missed something: It said : the publication of the Q1 consumer report from the Association of European Airlines"
Thats the rub. The Ryanair article is all smoke & mirrors. They take the report which does not include Ryanair or Easyjet, and then insert theirs & Easyjets published OTP. This means they can use their own "on time criteria" This could be 15 mins leeway compared to say 3 minutes for Easyjet. Also it seems to be procedure that if any flight is seriously delayed they cancel it to protect their stats. In any case if you were flying to Frankfurt, an extra 10 minutes delay on a BA flight still means you are 50 minutes closer to where you want to go.
 
icarus75
Posts: 751
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:31 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 7):
Sad how every single topic about FR turns into a FR-bashing. If you don't like FR, don't read the posts about FR.

It is not about liking FR or not!
In fact, I'll soon fly them between Bergamo & Girona.

But, seeing all it said on this forum about this airline, I've made a lot of searches on FR net site (french, english, spanish, italian & german) : you often have contradictory informations!
Last example : MRS to Rome was a great success on the french site but the route to be discontinued on the english site!

Do you really think it is serious?
Flying is amazing!
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:59 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 23):
PH

I don't really understand your reply. The numbers are provided by Ryanair as an advertisement of their service, it's not a result of a McKinsey benchmark research or something, that measures efficiency among airlines.

To everybody on the forum it's obvious why Ryanair loses fewer bags and suffers less delays, it's a result of their choice of smaller, often remote airports. It's IMO very legitimate to say "yes, we fly from remote airports, that often don't have public transport connection are take a long drive to the city advertised, but as a result of this, we lose fewer bags and experience fewer delays and cancelations; and can offer lower fares".

After in 2006 the benchmark of all European airlines of lost bags was released, KL was ranked as one of the worst. Their answer was that it was because they had a lot more people traveling with hold bags than LH and BA, that have more cabin luggage-only domestic pax; and that their ratio of transfer pax was higher: basically to say that their relative performance isn't that bad.

All very valid arguments when you want to use the results as a benchmark improve your own business. And people that are responsible for that realize it (I hope, at least); KL or LH operational managers won't be bothered by the Ryanair benchmark as it's apples and oranges.

As advertisement to your passengers, it's very valid. When an airlines loses my bag, I coudn't care less why the lost it.
 
ryanairCRL
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:05 pm

Quoting RightWayUp (Reply 24):
Also it seems to be procedure that if any flight is seriously delayed they cancel it to protect their stats

No it's not procedure, I've done a few flights with over 2h delays.
Now what sometimes happens is that flights are cancelled to protect the rest of the day. For example, after it's first 2 sectors an aircraft comes back to base with a technical problem which takes lets say 2h to fix. Sometimes they'll cancel the next 2 sectors in order to have the last 4 on times.

Quoting Steve332 (Reply 20):
I was flying Dublin - Malaga

That's the exception to what I was saying. Those EI to South of Spain are madness. I did a lot of SNN-AGP and SNN-MJV and yes it can take 1h for the service to be done. Irish people buys everything we've got to sell, almost emptying the trolleys.
BTW, how could you be starting descent after 1h on a 2h30 flight?

Quoting Icarus75 (Reply 25):
MRS to Rome was a great success on the french site but the route to be discontinued on the english site!

It was a great success passenger-wise but not money wise. I did a lot of times that route and there always was a lot of passengers. But according to rumours the yields weren't good.
http://flyingtom.myphotoalbum.com
 
ryanairCRL
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:18 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:09 pm

Quoting RightWayUp (Reply 24):
In any case if you were flying to Frankfurt, an extra 10 minutes delay on a BA flight still means you are 50 minutes closer to where you want to go

That is if you're going to Frankfurt city.
If you're going to Trier, or anywhere in that Western region, a 30min delay on FR will still get you there earlier.
http://flyingtom.myphotoalbum.com
 
BrianDromey
Posts: 1937
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:23 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:27 pm

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
“The high fare airlines simply can’t compete with Ryanair on price or on customer service either. These latest statistics prove that Ryanair is Europe’s undisputed leader, with the best punctuality, the fewest lost bags and the least cancellations. Only Ryanair guarantees the lowest fares and delivers number one customer service.”

OK, FR do fly into some major airports, and STN HNN, etc are becomming busier. HOWEVER compring flying into STN with LHR is a joke IMHO. How can they compare CAI with FCO, FRA with HNN?. Its like that episode of Grays Anatomy where the "psychic" predicts the death of a person on the fourth floor.....the ICU is on the 4th floor....

Quoting EI564 (Reply 5):

Its not that I want to be cynical but can people say that FR's statistics are definitely accurate? They may define things differently.

answered by.....

Quoting JRadier (Reply 15):

As they say, there are lies, damn lies and statistics.

A better measre of how 'good' FR's customer service would be too look at the delays &CANX. How longe were these dealys? How many people were transferred to another FR flight? How many people got home on teh same day?

Those are the hard questions which FR needs to answer before it can brag about being No1 for Customer Service. Everyone knows that the FR experience is fine when everything goes OK, you just have to have faith that your flight is in the 88% that go "on-time"

Brian.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
Rivet42
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:26 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 7):
If you don't like FR, don't read the posts about FR.

Oh, don't be silly!  banghead 

Are you for sensorship?! There really wouldn't be any point reading such a thread if all the posts were biased one way or the other. How do you expect anyone to get both sides of the debate?

Of course all the pro-FR people are going so say "Look how good FR are, because they say they are!", and all the doubters are going to say "Ah, but..."

Frankly this kind of thread is deliberately contentious, because it is promoting data that is clearly manipulated. So what do you expect the reaction to be...???

Riv'
I travel, therefore I am.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:56 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
I don't really understand your reply.

I added some comments to some PUBLIC claims produced by FR's PR machine - isn't a forum like this the right place to do so?

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
When an airlines loses my bag, I coudn't care less why the lost it.

Losing bags is part of the business - every traveller should know that. If I fly an airline that transfers my luggage through a hub the risk for a lost bag increases significantly. Everyone who expects the same lost luggage performance from a hub airline as from a basic LCC is disconnected from reality. Understanding the "why" is necessary to prevent a misinterpretation of statistics and subsequent illogical actions.
Mixing up results from different airlines with different business models which include different risks for losing bags is cheap PR.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Steve332
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:14 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 27):
BTW, how could you be starting descent after 1h on a 2h30 flight?

Dont ask me mate, I wasn't flying the bird. I can tell you that I was still eating my Pizza when we were coming over the mountains into Malaga.

Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 22):
Embajador3

You got a good point of view and a great post by the way, But theres more to a nice flight than the crew or being on time. Screaming kids and those seats have a lot to do with it as do other factors(Not the crews fault, hence me originally singling them out as good)
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:50 pm

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 31):
Everyone who expects the same lost luggage performance from a hub airline as from a basic LCC is disconnected from reality. Understanding the "why" is necessary to prevent a misinterpretation of statistics and subsequent illogical actions.

Of course, I cannot disagree on that. When benchmarking different airlines on the efficiency or operational performance, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Comparing FR with U2 would be fair, as would be comparing KL with LH. So, I completely agree that we can not draw the conclusion that one carrier is better (in what way ever) than another.

However, I disagree that from a potential passenger point of view, it's an unfair comparaison. For example, a passenger who wants to travel from Stockholm to Marseille might have two choices: ARN-MUC-MRS on LH, or NYO-MRS non-stop. Here, the risk of losing luggage is lower on FR than on LH, because of the connection.

We all on the forum, as frequent travelers, realize this. However, I doubt that the average unfrequent traveler realizes this. Therefore, IMO it's legitimate to advertise with this point. Of course, when only comparing direct flights (for example NYO-HHN on FR versus ARN-FRA on LH), there will likely be hardly any difference in performance. But as long as statistics in itself turn out to be accurate, I consider them to be legitimate to advertise in a free economy. And cheap advertising, well, that's just an integral part of Ryanair  Wink

(By the way, after re-reading my post, I saw it looked somewhat agressive, this was not on purpose, so my excuses for that)
 
Joost
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:27 pm

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:01 pm

Quoting RyanairCRL (Reply 27):

It was a great success passenger-wise but not money wise. I did a lot of times that route and there always was a lot of passengers. But according to rumours the yields weren't good.

Add to that that CIA slots are limited and no new ones are issued currently. Therefore, for routes to CIA, FR will likely have less 'patience' to let the route develop, and rather switch capacity to better performing routes. I expect that when and if CIA can expand again (which doesn't look like a done deal as it takes already over 2 years), the route to MRS will be launched again.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Euro

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:02 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 33):
For example, a passenger who wants to travel from Stockholm to Marseille might have two choices: ARN-MUC-MRS on LH, or NYO-MRS non-stop. Here, the risk of losing luggage is lower on FR than on LH, because of the connection

No disagreement here.

Quoting Joost (Reply 33):
Of course, when only comparing direct flights (for example NYO-HHN on FR versus ARN-FRA on LH), there will likely be hardly any difference in performance. But as long as statistics in itself turn out to be accurate, I consider them to be legitimate to advertise in a free economy.

That's just how advertising works - the consumers simply have to be careful with believing everything of what companies say.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Pihero
Posts: 4206
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:11 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
The numbers are provided by Ryanair as an advertisement of their service, it's not a result of a McKinsey benchmark research or something, that measures efficiency among airlines

As far as advertisement goes, there is honest and there is cynical .

Typical Ryanair ad.

For those interested, this is the latest annual AEA punctuality stat report :

AEA members puntuality

May I point to the initial comment (probably addressed to the likes of Mr O'Leary Sad

"The report is based upon a voluntary commitment by the members of the Association
to provide punctuality information according to a set of commonly defined standards.
Any similar statistics reported by airlines that are not part of the AEA Punctuality report
should not, under any circumstances, be construed as representing a fair comparison
with the figures presented herein. AEA cannot guarantee the accuracy of such figures
and indeed has reason to believe that they may represent entirely different
performance criteria.
"

Enough said.

The comments made by Joost about lost luggage .are valid,IMO
Contrail designer
 
Joost
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 36):

For those interested, this is the latest annual AEA punctuality stat report :

The AEA punctuality stats are a very good measure for relative comparisons among the member airlines. However, the AEA is not an independent organization either: it's an association of traditional European airlines, and the AEA has been founded to support the interests of the member airlines. Of course, they make a statement that AEA cannot guarantee the accuratiness of other results, and of course they mention you shouldn't compare. However, the AEA is not an independent and necesary objective authority, to prove the indefinate truth.

Ryanair, and many other LCCs (U2, BR, DY, NE, W6, HV, Sterling, MyAir and Sverige Flyg) are associated in the ELFAA, the counterpart of the AEA. A third association is the ERAA, for regional airlines. Unfortunately, these 2 associations do not publish on-time statistics. (And even if they did, it would still not be a guarantee for direct comparisons).

IMO, in order to compare punctuality, one can only use statistics from an independent (preferably governmental) authority. Doesn't the Biritsh DFT issue them?
 
EI564
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:49 am

The British Civil Aviation Authority does issue punctuality stats for flights to and from the UK.
 
Rivet42
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:15 am

Indeed they do...

Here's a link: CAA Punctuality Reports For UK Airports

I've done a quick (hmm, took a bit longer than I expected) tally of average delays for BA at LHR, FR at STN and U2 at LTN for March 2007, and here is the score, for combined arrivals & departures:

BA at LHR - total flights = 16,652, average delay in minutes = 18.2

U2 at LTN - total flights = 3,779, average delay in minutes = 16.5

FR at STN - total flights = 8,580, average delay in minutes = 9.6


Interesting! I'll leave the analysis to others...  duck 

There are of course plenty of caveats, which you'll find in the reports themselves.

Riv'
I travel, therefore I am.
 
findingnema
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:20 am

I've always found the rule to be with low-cost airlines, and working for one myself perhaps I'm more prepared for this than the general public, that if you expect absolutely nothing then the value for money you'll receive from these airlines is very good, equating good service. My experience of Ryanair has always been on-time flights. Now the cynical person may say that's because Ryanair pads their schedules etc. but all airlines do this, yet Ryanair has always managed to get me to my destination on-time or early. On every occasion my bags arrived and soon within landing. Again cynical passengers may say that's because I wasn't connecting and at small airports, ground staff are prepared just for the one FR flight - but at the end of the day, Ryanair delivered, they got my bags to me. All of the flights have been on new or newish 737-800s which provide comparable comfort to most shorthaul airlines even if the interiors do look like a metro train, though I couldn't get across London for some of the fares I've paid to fly across Europe. The crews have always been smartly turned out (bmibaby decision makers please take note) and are usually friendly if not outgoingly so. For what I've paid, I expect nothing, and in return getting to my destination on-time, with my bags and in reasonable comfort I feel content. Admittedly, I've not experienced Ryanair's customer service as a delayed or cancelled flight passenger so may not give a totally rounded picture, but with over 20 flights with them over the last 4 years, I've had plenty of opportunities to sample good or bad service.
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent British Airways’ positions, strategies or opinions
 
vfw614
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:21 pm

What on earth have

"punctuality, lost bags and no cancellations"

to do with customer service ? That is just the product they are selling. If it falls under customer service, any dimension of a good or a service could be labelled as "great customer service".
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 154
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Rivet42 (Reply 30):
Frankly this kind of thread is deliberately contentious

I agree with you, they'd never reach an agreement... .
Flying Together
 
Toulouse
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:18 pm

Quoting Peterinlisbon (Reply 21):
Punctuality
They fly to small airports where there are less delays.

Missing bags per 1,000 pax
Small airports>less bags going through the system (perhaps they are the only flight)>less lost bags

They benefit statistically from the fact that they fly into smaller airports. It is not really a reflection on the efficiency of Ryanair. In any case, punctuality and missing bag statistics are not really what most people would consider customer service. Customer service is how they treat their customers and their customer service is minimal to say the least.

I've deleted all the other quotes I had put in as when I got to Peterinlisbon's posts I saw he said exactly what I was going to say. I 110% agree with the above, and thus pay little attention to these statistics FR love publishing.
Long live Aer Lingus!
 
Pihero
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 37):
However, the AEA is not an independent and necesary objective authority, to prove the indefinate truth.

Thgat is as specious as an argument could go.
AEA is an association looking for the interests of its members and the statistics are catered for that role.
This particular one tries to identify as accurately as possible the bottlenecks that the members see in their operation in order to find solutions : airport delays, slots, handling etc...
They are also used internally for the airlines to identify where they can improve as regard to the competition.
Of course, and that's the argument of some posters in whose number I include myself, these statistics have a common basis (exactly what is a delay ?...etc...), where does the out / off / on / in information come from : ACARS or station stats ?...etc...
Finally, I'm still looking for an independant official agency. That an oxymoron if I saw one !
Contrail designer
 
EI321
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RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:40 pm

Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair, Europe’s largest airline,

what
 
findingnema
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 1:14 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 41):
What on earth have

"punctuality, lost bags and no cancellations"

to do with customer service ?

Ensuring a passenger gets to their destination on-time and without bags all adds up to the service they are providing their customers. As a no-frills airline, that is the service being offered, and Ryanair are delivering that service.
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent British Airways’ positions, strategies or opinions
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 45):
Quoting KL911 (Thread starter):
Ryanair, Europe’s largest airline,

what

FR has a marketvalue that's higher then any other European airline. In that the are the largest, yes.

KL911
 
Rivet42
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:26 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Euro

Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 44):
Finally, I'm still looking for an independant official agency. That an oxymoron if I saw one !

... I refer you back to an earlier post -

Quoting EI564 (Reply 38):
The British Civil Aviation Authority does issue punctuality stats for flights to and from the UK.

The CAA in the UK is about as independent as you are going to get. They clearly state how they get their data, what constitutes a delay, and how it is allowed to differ between airports taking into account average taxi times. And they report on all airlines, regardless of their affiliations.

It's a head load of data, but makes for interesting comparisions between routes, operators, and airports.

Riv'
I travel, therefore I am.
 
kl911
Posts: 3981
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2003 1:10 am

RE: Ryanair NR1 Again For Customer Service In Europe!

Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Toulouse (Reply 43):
They benefit statistically from the fact that they fly into smaller airports. It is not really a reflection on the efficiency of Ryanair. In any case, punctuality and missing bag statistics are not really what most people would consider customer service. Customer service is how they treat their customers and their customer service is minimal to say the least.

Again, I've never, never had any problem with their staff. I check in, they're nice ( often local people) onboard I order a beer and get it, and for the rest I don't see them and need them. Their whole sytem is electronic, the only reason I meet their staff is for what I just said, to check in and order something. What else should they do? Polish your shoes?

KL911

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