Flighty
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DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:39 am

So we know DL is getting some 772LR jets pretty soon. What will DL do at LAX? LHR? NRT? ICN? HKG? Is the new UA TPE flight designed to discourage Delta?
 
kl911
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:42 am

Why would DL go to LAX? They have a perfect base in ATL.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Why would DL go to LAX? They have a perfect base in ATL.

Certain routes dont make sense from ATL. Especially from Japan like: KIX, NGO, and FUK.
It is what it is...
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Flighty (Thread starter):
Is the new UA TPE flight designed to discourage Delta?

UA's route is from SFO not LAX and nothing UA is doing or plans to do will discourage DL. If anything, the opposite is true.
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:48 am

DL has said they wanted SIN, HKG, and SYD. I think these would be good candidates from LAX, but others will disagree that these will go out of ATL with LR's. Personally, I would like to see ATL because I live closer to there, but it just doesn't make sense to go LAX-ATL-SYD instead of ATL-LAX-SYD. Besides, if you do ATL-LAX-SYD and ATL-LAX-HKG, you can use 772ER's or rumored 773ER's, not wasting a LR. SIN would require an LR regardless.

For Asia I predict we will see:

LAX-NRT 763
LAX-NGO 763
LAX-KIX 763
LAX-HKG 772

Then:
LAX-SYD 772
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
kl911
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
Certain routes dont make sense from ATL. Especially from Japan like: KIX, NGO, and FUK.

Yeah, but it would be nice to feed them from/to a hub, not like a stand alone flight outside your route network.???

KL911
 
planetime
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 4):
rumored 773ER's

DL getting 77W's ? what is that did not hear about that... news to me really.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 4):
For Asia I predict we will see:

LAX-NRT 763
LAX-NGO 763
LAX-KIX 763
LAX-HKG 772

Then:
LAX-SYD 772

As you mentioned HKG,SIN, and SYD are on their list. SYD probably is strongest and can be done with a 777-200ER once they are freed up on delivery of 777LR. And that plane might do a ATL-LAX-SYD run. HKG is a second one.... from LAX ...

SIN i would love to see it in my backyard but probably is the least likely of the theree.


763 routes to Asia is a bit of a stretch....
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting Planetime (Reply 6):
DL getting 77W's ? what is that did not hear about that... news to me really.

It's just an Airliners.net rumor

Quoting Planetime (Reply 6):
763 routes to Asia is a bit of a stretch....

I have heard another Airliners.net rumor that Delta can increse their range up to and over the 6000 mile range on their 763ERs with the use of winglets.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
9V-SPJ
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:07 am

773ERs are a possibility in DL's fleet...... Can't say how I know this.

9V-SPJ
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:10 am

Quoting KL911 (Reply 5):
Yeah, but it would be nice to feed them from/to a hub, not like a stand alone flight outside your route network.???

LAX is the largest O&D airport in the world, the USA's largest O&D port to Asia, and DL plans to have over 100 domestic flights there in short order... so it wouldn't exactly be a short in the dark.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Flight209
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:11 am

When and if DL has enough aircraft with year-round ATL-East Asia range, then why can't -- and why shouldn't -- it fly to various East Asian cities from both ATL and LAX? It makes way too much sense if you ask me. ATL would receive connecting traffic in the eastern USA for DL flights to East Asia, and LAX would play the same role out west.
I may question your opinion, but I'll never question your right to it.
 
AirCop
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting Planetime (Reply 6):
763 routes to Asia is a bit of a stretch....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides Air Canada, I don't believe no one else is using 763's to Asia, which if DL did use would put them at a disadvantage against the newer planes of the airlines of Asia.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:15 am

- HKG -
Not likely. Tougher to get than other china routes as it is covered by a different bilateral.

- SYD -
They'd get their rear ends kicked by the two "established" carriers, QF and UA, who can do daily unlimited frequency service. DL would be limited to 4 daily I believe.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
fewsolarge
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:21 am

DL could get good yields out of LAX if they use the same strategy as they have on the North Atlantic — namely, to try secondary or tertiary markets like FUK, CTS, PUS. However, it would be challenging to build a FF base without also serving the top tier markets. The 777s will be so scarce for a while ... makes you wonder if they'll even have them at LAX for another few years.
 
EddieDude
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 12):
DL would be limited to 4 daily I believe

Weekly, you meant I guess.

It seems LAX-SYD by DL would be an uphill battle indeed, but if CO, NW, AM and CM all place their code on the flight, maybe DL can do something. The potential inability to fly daily worries me more than the long establishment of UA and QF in the market.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
kl911
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 12):
DL would be limited to 4 daily I believe.

4 weekly I suppose?
 
B4REAL
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:24 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 11):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides Air Canada, I don't believe no one else is using 763's to Asia, which if DL did use would put them at a disadvantage against the newer planes of the airlines of Asia.

Yes, there are carriers that operate more efficient a/c to Asia than DL and the 763 if running from LAX. But consider, DL is getting in the habit of pushing limits on this Int'l craze. Consider the soon to start JFK-TLV (DL 86/87 on a B763) is a longer route than LAX-NRT.

I would not at all be surprised to see DL make LAX really impressive. The recent LatAm routes, a lot of point to point domestic (By the way - I like the LAX-CMH flight - it is numbered 1492 - Columbus, Ocean Blue... got a chuckle out of that), chatter of Asia and Oz, we will see. They need more range capable a/c however - that is one thing that is confirmed. However, DL is hell-bent on ATL-Shanghai service - you should see the article by Whitehurst in this month's issue of Delta Sky magazine. It is entirely "DL wants China".
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:24 am

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 12):
- SYD -
They'd get their rear ends kicked by the two "established" carriers, QF and UA, who can do daily unlimited frequency service. DL would be limited to 4 daily I believe.

I wouldn't count on that. Delta has MUCH better service than UA, and in economy would offer amenity kits, PTV's, alcohol, leather seats, better flight attendants. By the time Delta would start this route, they will have lie-flat business seats, giving them an amazing advantage over UA. Besides, Australia seems underserved, Qantas is adding frequencies and all I hear about from non-revs is the difficulty getting on these flights.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
It's just an Airliners.net rumor

Is it?

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
I have heard another Airliners.net rumor that Delta can increse their range up to and over the 6000 mile range on their 763ERs with the use of winglets.

Not necessarily a rumor.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 9):
LAX is the largest O&D airport in the world, the USA's largest O&D port to Asia, and DL plans to have over 100 domestic flights there in short order... so it wouldn't exactly be a short in the dark.

Bingo, tho not necessarily all on DL mainline. But impressive none the less. T5 is gonna be busy.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 11):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but besides Air Canada, I don't believe no one else is using 763's to Asia, which if DL did use would put them at a disadvantage against the newer planes of the airlines of Asia.

Aside from the a/c being slower, how is it a disadvantage? Especially given DL's plans for the 76E aircraft, including interior refits? DL isn't SQ, but with BizE suites and a decent Y product, they could hold their own.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 18):
Is it?

From what I know, why wouldn't it be?
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 19):
From what I know, why wouldn't it be?

I have no idea...
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
planetime
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 14):
It seems LAX-SYD by DL would be an uphill battle indeed, but if CO, NW, AM and CM all place their code on the flight, maybe DL can do something. The potential inability to fly daily worries me more than the long establishment of UA and QF in the market.

Yes good point... SYD would need daily to compete with QF's 3 dailies, UA 1 daily and during peak times 11 weekly. And Qf soon getting A380's on that route does not help DL with that... but if as mentioned above if CO,NW all put their name on that flight... it might just work.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
I wouldn't count on that. Delta has MUCH better service than UA, and in economy would offer amenity kits, PTV's, alcohol, leather seats, better flight attendants. By the time Delta would start this route, they will have lie-flat business seats, giving them an amazing advantage over UA. Besides, Australia seems underserved, Qantas is adding frequencies and all I hear about from non-revs is the difficulty getting on these flights.

Good point UA on that route is Just HORRIBLE.... had the unfortunate chace to fly them on that route.... compared to them DL is much better in my travels as of this year. DL is really getting their act together.
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 20):
I have no idea...

LOL, ok...  Confused Still don't see what you're getting at.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Alitalia744
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:19 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 22):
LOL, ok... Still don't see what you're getting at.


ok.

[Edited 2007-06-08 04:23:23]
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
AirCop
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:30 am

NRT is out, they did that once moving the PDX's NRT slot to LAX, then to JFK and finally just gave it up.

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 18):
Aside from the a/c being slower, how is it a disadvantage?

When American operated the 763 from the west coast to CDG, ( a few miles further than NRT) it was less than the idea aircraft for that distance, they gave various reasons including passenger comfort, perhaps the new DL's interior will be better. Have you noticed no major airline operates the 763 from the west coast to Europe non-stop, must be a reason.
Anyways this discussion is all fine and good, but where will DL get the aircraft?
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 24):
Anyways this discussion is all fine and good, but where will DL get the aircraft?

Boeing.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Flighty (Thread starter):
Is the new UA TPE flight designed to discourage Delta?

As stated above the routing is from SFO and not LAX.

Quoting Planetime (Reply 6):
763 routes to Asia is a bit of a stretch....

Really? - Range, and winglets prove otherwise!

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
Delta has MUCH better service than UA, and in economy would offer amenity kits, PTV's, alcohol, leather seats, better flight attendants.

Oh so true. The Delta 777 and 763/764 when they are all refurbished will be light years ahead of the current United Airlines product.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
By the time Delta would start this route, they will have lie-flat business seats, giving them an amazing advantage over UA.

Again, true statement. No matter how the United Airlines fans put it Delta Air Lines new international product is far ahead of that United Airlines is offering. United Airlines needs to invest money in its Economy product as well as premium cabins to retain its standing in the Pacific market.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
AirCop
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 25):
Boeing.

With the backlog at Boeing for 777/787, I would think not anytime in the next couple of years.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 24):
NRT is out, they did that once moving the PDX's NRT slot to LAX, then to JFK and finally just gave it up.

Ancient history. Delta has a new, energetic, young management team with a tenacious International vision. Anything is possible.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:44 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 27):
With the backlog at Boeing for 777/787, I would think not anytime in the next couple of years.

There are 6 777-232LRs arriving in 2008/2009 fyi.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
jfk787nyc
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:59 am

So most of these 777LR are going for ASIA?
 
Evan767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting JFK787NYC (Reply 30):
So most of these 777LR are going for ASIA?

It's still not decided. There has been speculating of putting them on JFK-BOM, ATL-JNB, ATL-HKG, ATL-SYD, and others. For the most part, yes.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
UAL777UK
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
By the time Delta would start this route, they will have lie-flat business seats, giving them an amazing advantage over UA

Whatever route DL starts, by the time they do, bear in mind that UA will have commenced putting in the new F & J seats in their international fleet starting at the end of this year, so that amazing advantage, may in fact not be that amazing!
 
panamair
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:48 pm

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 32):
bear in mind that UA will have commenced putting in the new F & J seats in their international fleet starting at the end of this year

I know UA keeps saying this, but to date, I have not seen any material or details about the new UA J seat. F, yes, they rolled that out with some fanfare..but to date, they have been rather quiet about the J seat. If they are going to install it by the end of the year, when do they intend on announcing the details?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 24):
NRT is out, they did that once moving the PDX's NRT slot to LAX, then to JFK and finally just gave it u

Management is different, and besides, the slots at JFK weren't actually sold to FX from what I remember, just long-term leased.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 24):
Anyways this discussion is all fine and good, but where will DL get the aircraft?

Hint: It's definitely not Airbus  Wink .

Quoting AirCop (Reply 27):
With the backlog at Boeing for 777/787, I would think not anytime in the next couple of years.

That's the advantage of having "Preferred Nation" status with Boeing  Wink (just like AA for that matter)

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 16):
Consider the soon to start JFK-TLV (DL 86/87 on a B763) is a longer route than LAX-NRT.

And ATL-LOS will be yet another 134nm longer than JFK-TLV, and while DL has not yet officially ordered winglets for their 763s, surely that can only be a question of time.
 
fewsolarge
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:01 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 34):
Management is different, and besides, the slots at JFK weren't actually sold to FX from what I remember, just long-term leased.

I take it you meant NRT. If true, I wonder how quick they could get them back. That could certainly make a difference.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 33):
when do they intend on announcing the details?

Thats a valid point, but as I understand, some of the higher end Global Service FF's with UA have been invited to see/try out the new seat. One might argue that its does not need to be revealed up to its initial introduction. Either way, when the new F Suite goes in so does the new J seat.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 32):
Whatever route DL starts, by the time they do, bear in mind that UA will have commenced putting in the new F & J seats in their international fleet starting at the end of this year, so that amazing advantage, may in fact not be that amazing!

United Airlines has drug there feet for a few years in upgrading their onboard products. In addition United Airlines seems to play a game of wait and see, that game has drawn a lot of business away from United Airlines to other airlines that have indeed improved their respective onboard products. More importantly United Airlines needs to improve its Customer Service alongside any new onboard product launch.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 36):
Either way, when the new F Suite goes in so does the new J seat.

A look at the new United Airlines F Suite, and the VS-NZ-DL J Suite all seem very close to being the same product. So where is the United Airlines advantage?

United Airlines First Class Suite
http://www.flatseats.com/Product/news-ual-151206.htm

Delta Airlines Business Elite Suite
http://www.flatseats.com/Product/news-delta-111006.htm

Air New Zealand Premium Business Suite
http://www.flatseats.com/Reviews/nz-spc-1.htm



-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jfk777
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:59 am

6 777-200LR is three very long haul routes, so pick three and do it. Why does Delta need a 777 on the Atlanta to TLV run ? 764ER could do it ? LAX has 5 airlines to Tokyo, 2 Koreans to ICN, 2 Taiwain to TPE, Cathay has 3 744 to HKG and SIA owns Singapore, I don't get what DL wants to do or where it makes sense. Atlanta is a better bet for them, ATL to Sydney would be ground breaking.
 
jbmitt
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 38):
6 777-200LR is three very long haul routes, so pick three and do it. Why does Delta need a 777 on the Atlanta to TLV run ? 764ER could do it ?

The 763ER could barely make ATL-TLV without a significant payload, rumored winglets could help. The 764 has less range than the 763ER and therefore the 777 is required. The 772LR are more efficient than the 772ER over 5000 miles so there is possibly an advantage having those aircraft. Delta, especially as the first American customer, likely received discounts and is rumored to have received the 772LRs for the same price as their existing 772ER options. Essentially DL would gain a better product for no jump in price. What would you chose?

Delta's advantage at LAX are their low fixed & variable costs versus other American carriers. An American carrier might not compete 100% with an Asian carrier in terms of product or service, but the peace of mind offered to Americans travailing to Asia (English Announcements, American Staff, Western Dining options) along with an extensive route network and miles program might be enough to warrant service.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 38):
6 777-200LR is three very long haul routes, so pick three and do it

More like 4. With good scheduling, you can require only 3 planes to require two 24h+ routes, similar to what DL is doing by combining NRT and TLV.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 7):
Quoting Planetime (Reply 6):
763 routes to Asia is a bit of a stretch....

I have heard another Airliners.net rumor that Delta can increse their range up to and over the 6000 mile range on their 763ERs with the use of winglets.

Air Canada has no trouble using the 767-300ER, even without winglets, for routes to Asia. Pax like its more personal service and unbeatable 2-3-2 seating. If it is a modern 763 with PTV and the like, it's not a bad ride, and for markets with less demand, it's still cheaper to send a 767 than a 777 if you can't fill the 777.

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 17):
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 12):
- SYD -
They'd get their rear ends kicked by the two "established" carriers, QF and UA, who can do daily unlimited frequency service. DL would be limited to 4 daily I believe.

I wouldn't count on that. Delta has MUCH better service than UA, and in economy would offer amenity kits, PTV's, alcohol, leather seats, better flight attendants. By the time Delta would start this route, they will have lie-flat business seats, giving them an amazing advantage over UA. Besides, Australia seems underserved, Qantas is adding frequencies and all I hear about from non-revs is the difficulty getting on these flights.

DL's Y service is not that different than UA's. Could they fill a 777-200 full of people every day LAX-SYD? Sure. DL is sure going to need some planes to make this work. And regardless of what their product is like, it's still an uphill battle for them. If UA ever updates their 747 cabins and when QF brings the A380s on line, this will be a very competitive market. Best of luck to DL on it.

As for them wanting to fly to HKG and SIN, good luck on that one. HKG is viciously competitive and DL is at a disadvantage to much more established US airlines in asia like NW and especially UA. As for Singapore, good luck, haha. Have fun doing LAX-SIN - flying into a Star Alliance fortress - and competing against SQ's A340-500 service (which is miles and miles above DL - Y and J) on this route. As for ATL-SIN, not only would that be a 20 hour flight, where would you get pax for it. Where are these people coming from that transfering in ATL is easier than at EWR or LAX?

Also, keep in mind that NW, who has a huge asian presence, has 18+ dreamliners coming pretty quick, and they are almost all certainly going to expand routes to Asia. Likewise, CO has a nice sized fleet of dreamliners on the way, a fair portion of which I'm sure are also planned for expansion to Asia. DL's idea here isn't original and their competition is fierce. I wish them good luck, and they'll probably need it.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
planetime
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RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
DL's Y service is not that different than UA's. Could they fill a 777-200 full of people every day LAX-SYD? Sure. DL is sure going to need some planes to make this work. And regardless of what their product is like, it's still an uphill battle for them. If UA ever updates their 747 cabins and when QF brings the A380s on line, this will be a very competitive market. Best of luck to DL on it.

Biggest victim if DL gets into the market will be UA....except for the star alliance diehards. QF/AA has their on market on that route. DL will need couple of 777's to make this work.. even if it is 777-200ER. But this market is a bit underserved and DL needs to have daily nonstops to make this work due to the number of premium pax on this route. Also SYD-LAX-JFK could be tagged on this flight number to attract more premium pax, likes of which UA does.
 
PGNCS
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:07 am

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 34):
Quoting AirCop (Reply 24):
Anyways this discussion is all fine and good, but where will DL get the aircraft?

Hint: It's definitely not Airbus

Yes, unfortunately it's true...  sigh 

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
If it is a modern 763 with PTV and the like, it's not a bad ride, and for markets with less demand, it's still cheaper to send a 767 than a 777 if you can't fill the 777.

This is the single best point made here: You can always start a route (range permitting) with a 767 of some variety until the route develops and the 777 is available. I fully expect that over the next several years many routes that are now highly served with 767's will convert to 777's until the 787's arrive anyway.
 
777D
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2001 7:27 pm

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:01 am

If DL can serve SYD 4 times per week, try the route from SEA. Alaska can feed the flight as well as NW from MSP and DTW. When a new agreement is made between Australia and USA for more frequencies, then move or start service from LAX?
 
rwsea
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting 777D (Reply 44):
If DL can serve SYD 4 times per week, try the route from SEA. Alaska can feed the flight as well as NW from MSP and DTW. When a new agreement is made between Australia and USA for more frequencies, then move or start service from LAX?

Makes tons of sense and would be successful, but guarantee you DL won't try it. I hold out a little more hope for NW.

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 43):
This is the single best point made here: You can always start a route (range permitting) with a 767 of some variety until the route develops and the 777 is available. I fully expect that over the next several years many routes that are now highly served with 767's will convert to 777's until the 787's arrive anyway.

Good points. ATL-DKR-JNB is a good example. Will likely upgrade to the 764 for the southern-summer (based on a.net rumors, and just common sense really), and could eventually see a 777 or go non-stop with a 777LR. Although, the 764's are approaching the 777 in capacity (even internationally), so they're probably going to be adequate for the more popular European destinations (LON, CDG, FRA, AMS, MUC, MAD, BCN, DUB, MAN, BRU, etc.). For Europe, I would take the 764 over the 777 anyday - 2x3x2 seating (rather than 3x3x3), but with the same AVOD, service, and cabin style as the 777.
 
AirCop
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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
Air Canada has no trouble using the 767-300ER, even without winglets, for routes to Asia.

YVR is much closer to Asia than LAX. Wouldn't 763 from LAX would max out at Japan and Korea. TPE is what 6800 and HKG 7200 so the 763 couldn't make it, hence the need for different aircraft. Don't get me wrong as a passenger I like the 763, but would it work from LAX which is what a 1000 miles south of YVR to Asia?
 
Alitalia744
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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 45):
Will likely upgrade to the 764 for the southern-summer (based on a.net rumors, and just common sense really), and could eventually see a 777 or go non-stop with a 777LR. Although, the 764's are approaching the 777 in capacity (even internationally), so they're probably going to be adequate for the more popular European destinations (LON, CDG, FRA, AMS, MUC, MAD, BCN, DUB, MAN, BRU, etc.). For Europe, I would take the 764 over the 777 anyday - 2x3x2 seating (rather than 3x3x3), but with the same AVOD, service, and cabin style as the 777.

Exactly, and with a total of 13 (eight + 5 additional) currently confirmed for conversation, plus the recent comment by Bastian that all would eventually see conversion to international, you're looking at a potential total of 21 767-432ERs for international service.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 38):
ATL to Sydney would be ground breaking.

A groundbreaker because the flight is so long, but it will bleed money if DL tries it. As much as its fun as it is to fight geography and defy logic, it doesnt last.

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 41):
Where are these people coming from that transfering in ATL is easier than at EWR or LAX?

Well I think DL can make a strong case for ATL-Asia (but only major makets). I think ATL-HKG would work well because ATL provides good connections to Latin America. SIN is just too far and will be hard to maintain. PVG/PEK-ATL would work well if DL gets them. However if DL is going to succeed in Asia, they need to stick to major markets only from ATL and minor markets from LAX (holes in the market if you will).
It is what it is...
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2557
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DL Hub At LAX: Likely Asia Routes?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 48):
A groundbreaker because the flight is so long, but it will bleed money if DL tries it. As much as its fun as it is to fight geography and defy logic, it doesnt last.

Really? I think it would work for the following reasons:

-People from the East half of the country may prefer a routing like EasternUS-ATL-SYD instead of EasternUS-LAX/SFO-SYD. Going a shorter flight ATL-Eastern US is no longer than 3 hours, then ATL-SYD would be long. The USA-SYD flight would always be long, but now the first one is shorter. Especially thinking of the return, I'd really like a 90 minute flight home after a long flight.

-DL has proven that they can make about any international route work from ATL due to tremendous feed.

-From ATL, the closest service/competition to SYD is JFK on QF and that is one stop LAX.

-On such routes, DL has historically kept them and done well even with lesser efficient a/c. Consider ATL-NRT and CVG/ATL-LGW on the MD11. The MD11 was not an efficient aircraft (but had range for NRT), but NRT kept profitable. So, that may ding your "defy logic" and "bleed money".
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds

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