Elite
Topic Author
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Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:07 pm

I was chatting with a friend, and while we were on the subject of travelling he said that he hated travelling economy because he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything. Has anyone felt this way? When I travel economy I haven't really had this feeling, but I wanted to see your views.
 
AY104
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:55 pm

Sounds like a self-esteem problem to me. I know people who have tons of money, and they fly economy. I also know people who don't have a pot to pee in, up to their eyeballs in debt, but they have FF mileage, so they go F or J. In this day and age, travelling F, J or Y or owning a Mercedes or a 20-year-old jalopy is meaningless. These things can no longer be used as a measure of wealth. I travel economy most of the time, because I can't afford to pay the big bucks for F or J. I also don't own an automobile. I also don't have any debts, but that doesn't mean that I am going to max out my credit cards or cash in bonds for the prestige of travelling in the front just so people just to put on a show. I also don't fly enough any more to accrue a lot of mileage to upgrade anyway, when the time comes that I do have a lot of mileage I will save it for an overseas trip, pay the Y fare and upgrade. That is just a personal preference for comfort on a long flight. I don't fly for business, so all of my trips are pleasure trips, and for domestic flights I am quite happy to be in economy. I am just happy to go. Many others would use the miles for a free ticket. I was always brought up to do what felt comfortable for me, and thank God I don't have the problem that most North Americans have: they can't do anything without wondering either what others will think, or what kind of a impression it will have on them. I really don't give a damn whether others think I am rich or not, which indeed I am not, but I just have different priorities than others, and refuse to waste time and money to impress others.
If your friend is that troubled by flying economy and people thinking he is cheap, he really needs some help.
All of the people who travel Southwest in the US are quite happy to be in economy, and all the people in Canada who fly Westjet seem to be quite happy also. Tell your friend to make it easy on himself and fly Southwest, then he will be on equal "status" with everyone else.
Cheers,
AY104
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting AY104 (Reply 1):
If your friend is that troubled by flying economy and people thinking he is cheap, he really needs some help.

Not to mention that F on many US airlines is really no better than economy.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
Quetzal
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting AY104 (Reply 1):
Sounds like a self-esteem problem to me.

Good work AY,

One of the more measured and well adjusted replies I've seen on A.net.

I fly every day for a living & regularly see 'famous' people. Do I treat them any better than the other pax? I might be more likely to know their name, so perhaps there is a mild form of latent discrimination??
Elite, your friend might be interested to know some of the people that travel in economy every day are high-profile leaders of businesses, so-called celebrities and so-on.
And many/most of the people up front are probably riding on someone elses money!
Read between the lines and he'll see how the real world works.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
Not to mention that F on many US airlines is really no better than economy.

Yep.
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
TG992
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:39 pm

Interestingly, an airline commissioned an indepth study to find out the attitudes and expectations of its customers. The verbatim quote from the report was that 'Business Class travellers have a greater desire for recognition than First Class flyers, and imagine themselves to fly a lot more and contribute a greater percentage of the airline's revenue than they actually do'.

One fact I offer without comment - the airline I work for's 747s are configured with 46 Business seats, and 31 Premium Economy seats. Almost every flight, the Premium Economy passengers consume far more port and dessert wines than the Business Class passengers.
-
 
Quetzal
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting TG992 (Reply 4):
'Business Class travellers have a greater desire for recognition than First Class flyers, and imagine themselves to fly a lot more and contribute a greater percentage of the airline's revenue than they actually do'.

So true. And to take it down a notch, are less likely to treat you like a human being.
To look at it another way, it's new money v old money. The 'new money' people have not yet adjusted as to how to 'behave'.
No matter how far you push the envelope, it will always remain Stationery.
 
TSS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:26 pm

Quoting Elite (Thread starter):
he said that he hated travelling economy because he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything.

 rotfl 
Yes, I am one of the "cheap people". Big grin
I realize that the front of the plane arrives at it's destination only nanoseconds before the rear of the plane does, and as I fit reasonably comfortably into a Y-class seat, I see no reason to pay several times as much for a slightly larger seat in the front of the plane. I'd much rather spend my money at my destination than on the plane ticket to get there.

I don't want everything; In fact, my wants are very few.
I want a window seat.
I want more than one cup of black coffee.
When those two wants are met, I'm the happiest Y-class pax you ever saw.  cloudnine 
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
FXMD11
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:56 pm

This is how I see it, regardless if I can effort it or not. I fly BKK-LAX about 8 x per year, always in either TG's Premium Eco or in Standard Eco. The Saving between Biz and Eco is around 3000 US$ +/- 500 US$ per flight. The flight is 20hrs. So where in the world can I make 150 US$ an hour, sleeping, playing PSP or reading all my papers and desired books?For normal guys like myself this is a lot of money.But wait, if the saving is 3000 US$ per flight, this would mean around 24000 US$ a year or close to 100K US$ in 5 years. I rather put that in to my stock trading. I bought Apple at 11.02 US$ years back.The share was at 124 US$ today. Even, if this would make a wealthy man on paper, where else can I make so easy money? Sure the seats are nice and the service is good, but again the flight lasts not even a day and then all is over.

PS > I do not really want to complain as TG has been really generous over the past years and out of 6 flights I have 2 where I get upgraded and 2 more with a row for myself.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:29 pm

Quoting Elite (Thread starter):
he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything.

This is true, though... Millions of people spend 14 hours on the internet looking for the cheapest fares and buy those even if the departure times are terrible and the airport is 2 hours away by bus. And then they throw a tantrum when they don't get free food on the plane... "But I wanna have my cake AND eat it, is that so hard to understand??"

I am a real cheapskate myself, and buy the cheapest fares I can find, if I think the fares are too high I take the train or simply stay at home.
Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:37 pm

DISCRIMINATION?? What a crock. The crew to passenger ratio is higher in the premium cabins, and accordingly you get what you pay for. The service can be equally friendly, but obviously less personalized.
Above and Beyond
 
bennett123
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:09 pm

Personally, I see little point in paying out for Business/First for short haul.

It might by different on long haul, but having flown outside of Europe only twice. It is hard to judge.

I flew to HBE with BMED, and AA to JFK all Economy and had no problems.

I flew from CAI with MS, which was very nice but an extra £190 was a lot of money.

Sadly whenever I fly, I have to pay and really do not want to pay the extra. If I was traveling for work and someone else was paying ....
 
PGNCS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:10 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 2):
Not to mention that F on many US airlines is really no better than economy.

I don't buy that: First class on any domestic flight is pretty much universally better than economy on the same flight. If your argument that first on US domestic carriers is not as good as first on a Singapore 777, well, no joke, you're comparing apples to oranges.

Quoting Quetzal (Reply 3):
Elite, your friend might be interested to know some of the people that travel in economy every day are high-profile leaders of businesses, so-called celebrities and so-on.

Very true. I have even had US Congressmen sitting in coach going to and from DCA.

Quoting TSS (Reply 6):
I fit reasonably comfortably into a Y-class seat, I see no reason to pay several times as much for a slightly larger seat in the front of the plane. I'd much rather spend my money at my destination than on the plane ticket to get there.

I agree with you. The flight would have to be mighty long and arduous to justify the expenditure for the bigger seat for me.

Quoting CRJ900 (Reply 8):
"But I wanna have my cake AND eat it, is that so hard to understand??"

Bingo!

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 9):
DISCRIMINATION?? What a crock. The crew to passenger ratio is higher in the premium cabins, and accordingly you get what you pay for. The service can be equally friendly, but obviously less personalized.

I agree; the title of this thread is totally misleading. The only discrimination that occurs is when your friend looks at and chooses between the fare and product offerings, as in example 3 below.

dis·crim·i·na·tion
–noun
1. an act or instance of discriminating.
2. treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.
3. the power of making fine distinctions; discriminating judgment: She chose the colors with great discrimination.
4. Archaic. something that serves to differentiate.
 
PacNWjet
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:13 am

On the basis of some recent experiences, I now try to fly First or Business class if I have the opportunity, i.e., if I have the frequent flyer miles to upgrade or if someone else offers to pay part of the fare. Example #1: Last year my wife and I flew Delta from San Jose del Cabo, Mexico (SJD) to Salt Lake City (SLC) (continuing on to Portland PDX). The wait to check-in for Economy at SJD was more than an hour. One woman who was flying Economy on the non-stop to JFK informed us that she had arrived at the airport many hours before her flight, but after waiting more than an hour to check in she was informed that the flight was full and she was being bumped on to our SLC flight where she would have to make a connection for an overnight flight to JFK. Meanwhile, my wife and I were flying First (thanks to her parents who helped pay for part of our ticket) and we checked in in under ten minutes. After checking in I said to my wife: "Worth every penny." Exampe #2: The previous year we flew from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico (PVR) to Los Angeles (LAX) (continuing to Portland PDX) on Alaska in Economy. The entire length of the flight some moron hovered over our row berating his wife who was in the aisle seat. I kept thinking, "no matter how much extra it would have cost to fly First, it would have been worth it to not have this idiot hovering over us chastising his wife." So I plead guilty to being one of those people who will try to get out of Economy when the opportunity arises.
 
cloudy
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
Very true. I have even had US Congressmen sitting in coach going to and from DCA.

Members of the US house of representatives have a lot of mandated expenses - such as keeping an office in their district and in DC. They have to run for office every 2 years. There are strict limits as to how much lobbyists, campaign funds, etc. can contribute to these expenses. The vast majority of first time congressman are going to live a much poorer lifestyle, in both salary and working conditions, than they could have had otherwise. Many really can't afford to fly first class.

Another reason congressman often fly coach is that they are more often then not people lovers. They can stand the close quarters in coach better then most people.

AS FOR "DISCRIMINATION"

I think most people know the difference between first class and coach and understand. What pisses people off about airlines is the frequent flier caste system. Imagine if where you were seated or how long it took to serve you, or even the dish you were served, depended only on how many times you had been to that restaurant. It doesn't matter how much you paid or how reasonable or unreasonable you are. All that matters is how often you've been there. Its not hard to imagine what would happen to such a restaurant. It would alienate most potential customers. The few customers such a restaurant did attract would be mostly those who aim to get the benefits of being there by choosing the place more often. These captive customers and the restaurant employees would be stuck with each other and would get more and more resentful of each other. It would soon be unprofitable to serve these captive customers since it would get more and more expensive to buy their loyalty - especially when they are paying the same as everyone else.

Imagine a world in which every restaurant did this, except for a select few. These few radical eateries would offer the same good service to everybody. They would reward "frequent" diners with free meal coupons every once in a while, but they would not offer special seating or shorter wait times, etc. In time, such a restaurant would not only attract more customers but also it would have a disproportionate share of "nice" customers. These kind of customers don't want to be at the top of a caste system. They don't want special treatment. They don't make unreasonable demands. They just want a clean table, good food, friendly service, and fair treatment. They don't drive up your cost structure or destroy employee morale. Such a restaurant would not have a product that would please everyone, but they would get the best and most profitable customers.

I have just described the difference between Legacy carrier service and that of Southwest (and SOME other LCC's).
Southwest rewards loyalty, but DISCREETLY and in ways that DO NOT HURT OTHER CUSTOMERS Do I care if Southwest gives someone a rapid rewards ticket - heck no I don't. Do I care if I am made to wait longer so Triple Golden Elite...yadda yadda yadda frequent fliers can get faster service? You bet I do. If you want to reward people for loyalty, do so at your own expense and not at the expense of other customers. Otherwise, the only people you are going to keep as customers are those that want to be treated as kings while bleeding you dry. They will come back time and time again - but only to suck more blood.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
I don't buy that: First class on any domestic flight is pretty much universally better than economy on the same flight. If your argument that first on US domestic carriers is not as good as first on a Singapore 777, well, no joke, you're comparing apples to oranges.

oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre' and that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
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falstaff
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting TSS (Reply 6):
I want a window seat.
I want more than one cup of black coffee.
When those two wants are met, I'm the happiest Y-class pax you ever saw.

Those are the same things I want.

I am not a fat ass so I fit just fine in a Y seat.

Hardly anyone pays the same price either. For example last October I was going to visit friend in STL, from DTW. I bought my ticket a month early and it was $88. My girlfriend was not planning to go because she was supposed to be out of town for work Her plans changed so she bought a ticket a week before we went and it was $220. We sat next to each other, but paid a lot different price. The FAs didn't treat her any better because she paid more.

I have bought full fare Y on NW and I have bought K for Cheap. The FAs didn't treat me any different.

I have bought domestic F tickets for less then full fare Y, when I buy months in advance.

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 9):
The crew to passenger ratio is higher in the premium cabins, and accordingly you get what you pay for

I have bought F and I have been upgraded to F I was treated the same each time.

Quoting TSS (Reply 6):
I see no reason to pay several times as much for a slightly larger seat in the front of the plane. I'd much rather spend my money at my destination than on the plane ticket to get there.

Couldn't agree more most of the time.

Most of the plane is coach and I would bet you find people from all types of income brackets in those seats. I have a friend who has millions and never would think of paying for F, he also doesn't have cable TV. He has three airplanes and lots of neat cars, but he spends his money on what he thinks is important.

My girlfriend flies F all the time, always on her employer's dime, and she only makes $40,000 a year.

You never really know how much money the person sitting next to you has.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Analog
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.

It's more like 5" and 3", but yeah, it is. That little bit make a difference.

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre'

You must fly US
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 16):
It's more like 5" and 3", but yeah, it is. That little bit make a difference.

or DL MD80's or NW DC-9's or E170 UA or DL Domestic 763, or DL757 or the list goes on and on of planes with questionable "Legroom" in F.

Also, even if you do have better legroom, F pax tend to be fat middle age men 85% of the time that spill into your seat even if it is 18.5 to 21 inches wide, oh, and the fat a$$ in front of you also needs to recline fully immeadeatley after take-off until the FA tells him for the 3rd time to bring it up for landing.

Quoting Analog (Reply 16):
You must fly US

at least they have "food" on F flights unlike some DL flights of the same length (DL TUS-ATL comes to mind...no food)

Other than CO and US PS and some some transcon's domestic F blows.

I was on a UA 777 from ORD to DEN a few months ago (3 class) and was shocked to get basically an international J breakfast on that flight. UA has been picking up the ball recently on certain city pairs.
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PGNCS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 13):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
Very true. I have even had US Congressmen sitting in coach going to and from DCA.

Members of the US house of representatives have a lot of mandated expenses - such as keeping an office in their district and in DC. They have to run for office every 2 years. There are strict limits as to how much lobbyists, campaign funds, etc. can contribute to these expenses. The vast majority of first time congressman are going to live a much poorer lifestyle, in both salary and working conditions, than they could have had otherwise. Many really can't afford to fly first class.

Another reason congressman often fly coach is that they are more often then not people lovers. They can stand the close quarters in coach better then most people.

I'm not sure I'm feeling a lot of pity for the financial conditions of the members of the US Congress, and I definitely don't buy the "people lovers" argument given some of the behavior I have seen on board from several of them (one in particular was more than troublesome.) I actually think most of them do make more than they could in the outside world, though not exclusively from direct compensation. At any rate I don't quite understand your point, all I was saying was that I have carried Congressmen in coach and they did not feel discriminated against in any way (even though they universally have tried and failed to use their FF miles to upgrade to first; first fills up way earlier than most of them book for DCA flights.)

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 11):
I don't buy that: First class on any domestic flight is pretty much universally better than economy on the same flight. If your argument that first on US domestic carriers is not as good as first on a Singapore 777, well, no joke, you're comparing apples to oranges.

oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre' and that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.

What's your problem? I said that first was better than economy on a given flight. If the pitch isn't to your liking find a better travel alternative. Most people appreciate the width of the seat and the fact that there is pre-flight service of any sort. People want low fares; the airlines are giving them what they want. If there is no difference as you say, why are Frequent Flyers jockeying with all their might to get that last upgrade into first on even the shortest segments? If you think that flying in first is no better than a middle seat overlooking the engine in an MD-80, next time you have a first class seat, why don't you go find the guy in 37B and offer to trade seats with him?
 
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falstaff
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 16):
Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre'

You must fly US

On NW F you get a glass. They serve beer and pop in one type of glass and wine in another. You also got a glass in F on Mesaba's ARJs
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 18):
What's your problem? I said that first was better than economy on a given flight. If the pitch isn't to your liking find a better travel alternative. Most people appreciate the width of the seat and the fact that there is pre-flight service of any sort. People want low fares; the airlines are giving them what they want. If there is no difference as you say, why are Frequent Flyers jockeying with all their might to get that last upgrade into first on even the shortest segments? If you think that flying in first is no better than a middle seat overlooking the engine in an MD-80, next time you have a first class seat, why don't you go find the guy in 37B and offer to trade seats with him?

I have no problem...I am just giving some facts to people that think they might be missing something by not being in first. The only airlines worth flying in F are CO , HA and AS and UA .

typically you are not missing anything special in F, just pointing it out.

International F /J is another story.

Maybe FF shouldn't be jockying for a F upgrade...unless they just want free booze.

Actually I did have a chance to upgrade from E Plus to F on a LAX HNL UA flight, but me and the other upgrade decided to let 2 enlisted army guys have it. (that was about 1 year ago). The E-plus was fine.

[Edited 2007-06-08 18:36:23]
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contrails
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:33 am

I fly economy most of the time (unless I have an upgrade coming), and I don't feel discriminated against. You get what you pay for.

If you are willing to pay 2 to 5 times the coach price to get a meal, wine, higher class entertainment, and some attention from the FA, go ahead. I'm not willing to. I'd rather use that money somewhere else.

Nor do I consider those in first class to be snobbish or "uppity". They may have the money, or they may have an upgrade. What do I care?

There's no discrimination. Just a difference in accommodations.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
PGNCS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 20):
Actually I did have a chance to upgrade from E Plus to F on a LAX HNL UA flight, but me and the other upgrade decided to let 2 enlisted army guys have it.

Thank you VERY much for doing that. I have done that as well, and always appreciate it when others do it.  veryhappy 

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 20):
I am just giving some facts to people that think they might be missing something by not being in first. The only airlines worth flying in F are CO , HA and AS and UA .

I see your point, an I apologize if I misunderstood from your earlier post. FF DO line up for first like crazy even on 100 mile legs. The best thing about first is the width and pitch of the seat; I don't care about the extra service, though I do like being offered a drink, especially in the summer.

Quoting Contrails (Reply 21):
I fly economy most of the time (unless I have an upgrade coming), and I don't feel discriminated against. You get what you pay for.

If you are willing to pay 2 to 5 times the coach price to get a meal, wine, higher class entertainment, and some attention from the FA, go ahead. I'm not willing to. I'd rather use that money somewhere else.

Nor do I consider those in first class to be snobbish or "uppity". They may have the money, or they may have an upgrade. What do I care?

There's no discrimination. Just a difference in accommodations.

I thank you for this post. This is the post I wish I'd written on the subject!
 
itsjustme
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:56 am

The only time I've felt "discriminated" against with regard to my choice in seating was when I was flying from SNA to DTW last year on NW and my departure was delayed. We pushed back but when they fired up the engines, one of them wouldn't start. Nothing was said on the overhead. Our only indication that something was wrong was when we were being pulled back to the gate. After 15 minutes of sitting, an announcement was made that one of the plane's engines wouldn't start and we may have to deplane. At some point after that another announcement was made advising us to exit the a/c and that it was "unknown how long the delay would be". Thing is, as I was walking down the jetway, there was a NW employee walking behind me who had a portable radio on and I was able to overhear some radio traffic. Even before we had exited the a/c, I overheard plans being made to bus the first class pax to LAX (so obviously they knew at that point our delay would be significantly long enough to start making arrangements to bus the first class pax to LAX). Yet while waiting in the gate area, other than the ticket agent making an announcement that all first class passengers needed to report to the desk, us lowly coach passengers were kept in the dark about the length of the delay. The flight was supposed to depart at 0700. Actual departure time was 1545.
 
Analog
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:02 am

Quoting Contrails (Reply 21):

If you are willing to pay 2 to 5 times the coach price to get a meal, wine, higher class entertainment, and some attention from the FA, go ahead. I'm not willing to. I'd rather use that money somewhere else.

Sometimes the price difference for paid F is pretty small, especially for last minute tickets. The only time I paid for F (full F, not Y-up) was on a 3.5 hour (turned into 5.5 hour) flight; it cost me $50 more than Y (on that aircraft or on WN).

At that point it becomes worth it, even for a poor bum like me.
 
Analog
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Contrails (Reply 21):

There's no discrimination. Just a difference in accommodations.

If I'm in F (especially if I've paid for it), I'm going to expect discrimination. I'll expect the airline to discriminate in the way it treats me during check in, etc. feeds me... The difference in accommodations is part of the way in which airlines discriminate between Y and F pax.
 
aviationnut12
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:51 am

I just look forward to flying and treat it like a privilege. I don't really pay any attention or care what other people think about "us folk in the back of the bus". It is only what you make it. I enjoy flying no matter what class(only flown first once), seat, airline, or airplane. Remember, you get what you pay for. God Bless.
Aviationnut12
Every choice is a step, steps become direction, direction determines destination
 
cvg2lga
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:29 am

I fly at least once a week. For me its a real privilege. But it hasn't always been this way. Since I am able to, I pick usually flights that are transcon and where I have a good chance of sitting up front. I like the room, the meal and naturally the free drinks. Plus the personalized service is great. Also you have a better chance of talking to the crew before takeoff if the F/A's allow you to. But if by chance I am seated in the rear then so be it. I hate middle seats though and usually that is what I end up with lol. As far as rude people go, they can be in either cabin. The bulkhead doesn't confine them to any one section. Example, yesterday I flew from MSY to ATL, in the last row of an MD88. The guy in front of me was talking loudly on his phone even as we were pushing back until the F/A told him to shut it off. A couple weeks ago I was in the forward cabin on a 757 coming from LAS and when I boarded I was going to put my bag under the seat, well my seatmate had his there and made no attempt to move it. At all. Always trying to avoid confrontations when I fly, I didn't say anything, just put mine in the overhead. Btw there wasn't anything under the seat in front of him, and if my shoes happened to find their way onto his bag while I was sleeping well...i was sleeping what could I do about it. Before I had this awesome privilege to fly so often and in either cabin, I proudly was one of those internet searchers. I need to get somewhere for the cheapest fare. Not bad. I used to think that F was over-rated for domestic flights. Short Haul I feel that I am still correct, Long Haul I have come to learn is a bit different. What a difference F can mean to Y on transcons or transpacific flights. I wouldn't say you get what you pay for since most people in F didn't pay for that, Upgrades and such, but you definitely get more and thats why its a premium cabin with premium services. I don't believe there is discrimination between F & Y pax.
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sq_ek_freak
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting Analog (Reply 24):
Yet while waiting in the gate area, other than the ticket agent making an announcement that all first class passengers needed to report to the desk, us lowly coach passengers were kept in the dark about the length of the delay.

Yeah, same thing happened to me on AA from HNL to LAX. Flight was due to depart at 1500ish, we push back from the gate and as we taxi for take off the Capt. informs us that there is a problem with a part of the wing and we need to return to the gate. At this time, they can't give us a timeline as they are not sure whether they can locate the part in HNL or not. 45 minutes later, apparantley after haggling with Hawaiian, they get the part but find something else wrong with the plane, and this time HA doesn't have the part. Capt. says AA is trying to contact other airports on the outlying islands. 4 hours later, they announce the flight is "indefnitely delayed, NOT cancelled" and for all coach passengers to collect their bags at the carousel and for all first class passengers to report to the podium at the gate to be rebooked. Because the flight was not "cancelled" and we had "voluntarily" gotten of, AA had no responsibility to help coach passengers out, even though it was now 730pm and almost all mainland bound flights were full. AA agent at the gate refuses to help out, just direct passengers to the bag claim - she then says that there's not a chance we'll get on a flight that same evening, and that most likely the six of us would have to fly on seperate flights on Sunday and Monday (it was Friday). Being annoyed at the delayed-cancelled thing, I tell her I want to wait out the delay because technically they didnt cancel the flight - she then says thats not an option, as the plane would be fixed and rescheduled most likely to another destination. So the whole concept of the indefninite delay was lost on me. After much wrangling with agents on the phone, one of the six of us got us on a HA flight to Lihue (at 8pm, last one of the day, after we sprinted from AA to inter-island with our huge bags) then AA to LAX. This offer was only made after agents on the phone kept telling us the earliest we could get out was Monday. AA then misprinted our tickets which caused more confusion at the HA desks, with HA agents furiously fighting with AA agents over the phone to get us on the flight. Funny that the HA agents were more on our side and trying to get us home than the AA agents, though they had no reason to, we weren't even their passengers!

That being said and having some degree of hatred for AA, their cabin crew were awesome on the inbound leg into HNL, as were the crew outbound LIH to LAX. So once on the plane, I never felt discriminated against. The First Class FAs who welcomed all of us aboard at the door were just as pleasant to coach passengers as they were to First passengers. The only reason I'd fly AA again is for their cabin crew.
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flydreamliner
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:20 am

Should I feel ashamed to go out in public if I'm not dressed in Hugo Boss, wearing Harry Winston cuff links, and an Omega watch? People will think I'm cheap if I go out in a pair of cargo khakis and a t-shirt! Oh no!

People know that people in economy wanted to pay to fly in economy and not in business. Don't people in business worry if the people in economy are sitting back there thinking people in business have more money than sense?

Flying business great, it's enjoyable, but typically it's not worth the money to me. I guess I'm young and just more interested in getting where I'm going than being served imitation fine food and sitting in a chair with a remote control massage for $3,000.

This is all together ridiculous.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
soon7x7
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:16 am

Sitting in ANY seat for three to eight hours is uncomfortable. The only thing worse than wining, screaming kids is wining, screaming abnoxious wanabee first class adults. Real people with class and real money fly Gulfstream V's,Globals etc,and for the most part are genuine people. With my free upgrades, I still opt for the bumpy,noisy economy cabin with all the jet fuel exhaust.A simple test of class...next time you fly longhaul...when leaving the aircraft...look at the floor in econ,biz and first class. ALWAYS...first class looks like they had the windows rolled down during the entire flight. Junk everywherwe...In short...I fly cheapest way possible...you don't have to pretend to have class to fly smart.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:36 am

I save my miles to be able to fly J or F on international flights so I can relax, get some real sleep, have lounge access (including showers) get my bags first, get through security first, etc. It's been a really important part of my journeys and made the trip better (helping with jetlag and making the first 2 days more enjoyable), and I have earned enough miles and points over the years to fly AA F to Switzerland, AA F to Japan, AA FAT-STT F for 2, QF F to Sydney (with free connections to Perth), CO J to Germany and CO J to France with still about 400k miles and points left.

Domestically, I will only fly F if:
1. someone else paid
2. upgraded due to FF status
3. late booking and all that is left is full Y, as I'll get upgraded on CO

Flying coach I have no feelings of inferiority. This must be something insecure people feel?

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 13):
Imagine if where you were seated or how long it took to serve you, or even the dish you were served, depended only on how many times you had been to that restaurant. It doesn't matter how much you paid or how reasonable or unreasonable you are. All that matters is how often you've been there.

Do you not frequent restaurants regularly? This is the NORM for restaurants! If you are a regular (and you don't undertip), you get treated better. They know you, they chat with you, they tell you gossip, they give you free food and drinks, all without asking. Restaurants absolutely value repeat customers, and those who don't tend not to have a lot of repeat customers.

So your analogy is not the best...  Wink

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 14):
oh yea...that rock-gut wine in a plastic cup, the fabulously reheated hot pocket or Stouffer's hungry man entre' and that exta 1 inch of legroom and 1 inch more width is sooo much better than coach.

It's not just seat width, but shoulder width. Even on some MD80s where the F seat is only 1.3" wider, there is about 4" more shoulder room, and that means your own arm rest and not rubbing shoulders with a sweaty fat guy.

But I agree, the main reason I never liked MD80s was that the F cabin was too narrow. 737s and 757s don't have this problem despite your claims. 737/757 F seats are generally 20.75" wide with about 30" of shoulder room, compared to 17.2" wide in Y with 19.2" of shoulder room. That 10" of shoulder room makes a BIG difference on a transcon.
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PGNCS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Flying coach I have no feelings of inferiority. This must be something insecure people feel?

EXTREMELY valid point!

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
But I agree, the main reason I never liked MD80s was that the F cabin was too narrow. 737s and 757s don't have this problem despite your claims. 737/757 F seats are generally 20.75" wide with about 30" of shoulder room, compared to 17.2" wide in Y with 19.2" of shoulder room. That 10" of shoulder room makes a BIG difference on a transcon.

Well in honesty though, the MD-80 doesn't fly many transcons, and the 3 x 2 is better in coach. Your point about the value of shoulder room is a huge one and is why I eternally curse the CRJ (among many other reasons.)
 
ikramerica
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 32):
Well in honesty though, the MD-80 doesn't fly many transcons, and the 3 x 2 is better in coach. Your point about the value of shoulder room is a huge one and is why I eternally curse the CRJ (among many other reasons.)

Very true, but the statement is about F not being much better than Y, and in the MD80, the width of F is pretty poor.

Since I live in LA, and also lived in san fran, there are tons of AA MD80s flying here to DFW and ORD, which isn't a transcon but are still long flights that kinda stink if you paid for F, when other carriers are flying planes with more F space. Also, the curvature of the fuse on the MD80 is tight for tall people, even in the window seats in F, compared to the 737/757 or A320 series.

But the DC9/MD80 is the only mainline plane where that's the case when comparing F to Y.

And that doesn't have anything to do with pitch or level of service. I had some great AA service in the 90s on MD80s in the F cabin.
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aa757first
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 6:53 am

First Class passengers are treated better because they either paid more or are upgrading with miles. Just like a customer staying in a presidential suite probably gets better service than someone paying the Internet only rate.

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 13):
Southwest rewards loyalty, but DISCREETLY and in ways that DO NOT HURT OTHER CUSTOMERS

How are other customers hurt? Because the Elite Check-In line is shorter than the one for other passengers?
 
PGNCS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
Very true, but the statement is about F not being much better than Y, and in the MD80, the width of F is pretty poor.

I see your point that you don't like the width of the MD-80 FC compared to a Boeing or A-320, and I understand.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 33):
But the DC9/MD80 is the only mainline plane where that's the case when comparing F to Y.

What I am saying is that IF you are flying in an MD-80, FC is STILL better than YC by any metric that I can think of. I am 6'2" and have never been uncomfortable in a window seat in FC in the MD-80,a nd I would certainly rather be anywhere on an MD-80 than a 737. There's a whole thread raging on this very subject elsewhere right now, actually.

Bottom line: FC is more comfortable than YC in any given airplane (that I'm aware of.)
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
It's not just seat width, but shoulder width. Even on some MD80s where the F seat is only 1.3" wider, there is about 4" more shoulder room, and that means your own arm rest and not rubbing shoulders with a sweaty fat guy

757 especially on DL has terrible issues when someone puts the seat all the way back. Many times I've been on a DL 757 in F and had horrendous "personal" space to put it mildly. I am about 6'2" and not obese at all and I find DL's 757's to be lacking. (Just my experience),

I've had fat enough people in F that even the wider armrest/drink platform is covered by sweaty fat person. (including on a 757).
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AirSpare
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting AY104 (Reply 1):
most North Americans have

That is not a "North American" trait, it's human nature. U=I actually see it less in N.A. then in Africa or Latin America. Great post!

Having flown F only about a dozen times on mile upgrades from biz, my observation is people sleep more in F, biz class guys tend to work a bit more, cattle class guys have the PCs out the most, crunching reports or spreadsheets. I like to fly F, not for the food or the "attention", it's where I sleep. And the seat has enough buttons to entertain me until the VV kicks in.

One nice thing about AAdvantage, when I'm flying on miles or a purchased moo class ticket, I can check in at the F class counter, it is a nice perk.
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ikramerica
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 36):
757 especially on DL has terrible issues when someone puts the seat all the way back. Many times I've been on a DL 757 in F and had horrendous "personal" space to put it mildly. I am about 6'2" and not obese at all and I find DL's 757's to be lacking. (Just my experience),

DL does seem to cram the seats into F, but it's not that bad. It's not international J, but it's still way more leg room.

AA F on the 757 has the same problem. AA F on the 738 is much better, one of my favorite domestic F cabins, with very comfy seats. CO domestic F is consistently middle of the road in comfort, as all the seats are roughly the same and the pitch is roughly the same (I think it's a bit tight in the 735).

Never been on NW in F, nor UA. And I think I was on US a while ago, but I think the planes have changed since then.
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WhiteBirdFlyer
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting TG992 (Reply 4):
One fact I offer without comment - the airline I work for's 747s are configured with 46 Business seats, and 31 Premium Economy seats. Almost every flight, the Premium Economy passengers consume far more port and dessert wines than the Business Class passengers.

A splendid measure of civilization if there remains any.  Smile

Cordially,
WFB
WhiteBirdFlyer, currently near SFO
 
hamster
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:47 pm

I think you friend needs a session or two on his shrink's couch. I have never flown anything but Y. To me the only people who should be flying F or J are

a: people who are filthy rich and really don't know what to do with their money

b: frequent flyers who receive complementary upgrades or have miles to burn

To pay up to four times the price of a Y ticket to get goose liver pate seems mind boggling to me. We both leave and arrive at the same time. I will take the "change" and put it toward my car repair, or save it or heck go on a vacation. To put it another way maybe the Y people think the J and F class people have the problem.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Hamster (Reply 40):
To me the only people who should be flying F or J are

I'd add to that list.

c. People on a once in a lifetime trip, like a 50 year anniversary or honeymoon or something where they want to have a special experience.
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TSS
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:25 am

The Carol Burnett take on the subject:
http://img.youtube.com/vi/IpGRA5mjOA8/2.jpg
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 13):
Imagine a world in which every restaurant did this, except for a select few. These few radical eateries would offer the same good service to everybody. They would reward "frequent" diners with free meal coupons every once in a while, but they would not offer special seating or shorter wait times, etc. In time, such a restaurant would not only attract more customers but also it would have a disproportionate share of "nice" customers. These kind of customers don't want to be at the top of a caste system. They don't want special treatment. They don't make unreasonable demands. They just want a clean table, good food, friendly service, and fair treatment. They don't drive up your cost structure or destroy employee morale. Such a restaurant would not have a product that would please everyone, but they would get the best and most profitable customers.

I have just described the difference between Legacy carrier service and that of Southwest (and SOME other LCC's).
Southwest rewards loyalty, but DISCREETLY and in ways that DO NOT HURT OTHER CUSTOMERS Do I care if Southwest gives someone a rapid rewards ticket - heck no I don't. Do I care if I am made to wait longer so Triple Golden Elite...yadda yadda yadda frequent fliers can get faster service? You bet I do. If you want to reward people for loyalty, do so at your own expense and not at the expense of other customers. Otherwise, the only people you are going to keep as customers are those that want to be treated as kings while bleeding you dry. They will come back time and time again - but only to suck more blood.

Umm...ok.  sarcastic  Your description works if you're flying from DAL to LBB but try NOT "discriminating" in favor of your best frequent flyer base passengers and Joe and Sally on their "We don't normally fly but we won these in a raffle!" tickets when flying from say, DFW to BKK. When WN starts flying internationally to places like BKK (which they won't, just a hypothetical here) and maintains their current posture of "discrimination", we'll see how they do.
 
luvfa
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:28 am

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 43):
Umm...ok. Your description works if you're flying from DAL to LBB but try NOT "discriminating" in favor of your best frequent flyer base passengers and Joe and Sally on their "We don't normally fly but we won these in a raffle!" tickets when flying from say, DFW to BKK. When WN starts flying internationally to places like BKK (which they won't, just a hypothetical here) and maintains their current posture of "discrimination", we'll see how they do.

WN flies transconsi.e., PHL-LAX, BWI-OAK, BWI-SAN etc. and our policy is no differernt than for DAL-LBB. When and if we go international, nothing will change!
 
cloudy
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 31):
Do you not frequent restaurants regularly? This is the NORM for restaurants! If you are a regular (and you don't undertip), you get treated better. They know you, they chat with you, they tell you gossip, they give you free food and drinks, all without asking. Restaurants absolutely value repeat customers, and those who don't tend not to have a lot of repeat customers.

So your analogy is not the best... Wink

I eat 3-4 meals a week in sit down restaurants.

Most restaurant meals eaten in the US are fast food, and if a fast food place introduced special lines for repeat customers, etc. people would get so angry it might cause a riot. Southwest people will "chat with you" and "tell you gossip" regardless of how many times you fly with them. They will give you more food and drink if you ask. You don't need to be a frequent flier to be treated well. Any business that needs to create an airline-like caste system to get a significant number of repeat customers is admitting it has subpar service, and there very few examples of such systems outside the airline industry and government.

Yes, some restaurants give special deals to repeat customers but they follow several conditions that legacy airlines don't.....

1. They are discrete about it. They don't give actual labels to ones status such as "super premium elite frequent diner, etc" and make the status system so explicit, complex and obvious that it becomes a major part of setting foot in the place. Most don't even have written rules.

2. When they give special rewards to frequent diners, they give them rewards that cost THEM and do not inconvenience OTHER CUSTOMERS. Again, I don't care if frequent diners get some free drinks. I do care if they don't have to wait in line to get seated and I do. That is a crucial difference.

3. The higher "class" a restaurant is, the more likely it is to give special privileges to repeat customers. The "lower level" sit down restaurants that frequently serve the VAST majority of us - eg, Appleby's, IHOP and the like... do not do that kind of thing. The few times they do it, they are discrete and are careful not to disadvantage other customers. Go to a fast food place and discrimination is even less common. Ask the manager of a Mcdonalds for a free coke because you go there every other day and he as likely as not will laugh at you. Airlines like to think that they are still a high class business. For domestic coach, they no longer are. Domestic coach more analogous to Mcdonalds than to Red Lobster. You want Red Lobster - go First class. You want the most fancy restaurant in New York - go see NetJets. Southwest chooses to serve the "fast food" end of the airline market and smartly follows fast food service rules.

When other airlines break these rules, they are shocked that people choose Southwest instead - AND EVEN GIVE THEM A REVENUE PREMIUM on many routes. Yes, that is correct. Southwest more often than not earns a higher RASM on coach traffic than its legacy competitors. This happens not because of higher fares, but because people will often choose Southwest even when the fare is the same or a little bit higher. They are also more willing to buy fares in higher buckets when the bargain basement seats run out. It helps to be treated like a human.
 
LRGT
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:23 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 17):
Other than CO and US PS and some some transcon's domestic F blows.

What?? I love CO, but their transcon F class is total garbage... an overnight flight with seats that barely recline, lousy food, and no leg rest in first? It's disgusting... better seats would do a world of difference. I'm considering buying 3 seats in coach next time I go SFO-EWR instead. Can you do that?

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 23):
The only time I've felt "discriminated" against with regard to my choice in seating was when I was flying from SNA to DTW last year on NW and my departure was delayed. We pushed back but when they fired up the engines, one of them wouldn't start. Nothing was said on the overhead. Our only indication that something was wrong was when we were being pulled back to the gate. After 15 minutes of sitting, an announcement was made that one of the plane's engines wouldn't start and we may have to deplane. At some point after that another announcement was made advising us to exit the a/c and that it was "unknown how long the delay would be". Thing is, as I was walking down the jetway, there was a NW employee walking behind me who had a portable radio on and I was able to overhear some radio traffic. Even before we had exited the a/c, I overheard plans being made to bus the first class pax to LAX (so obviously they knew at that point our delay would be significantly long enough to start making arrangements to bus the first class pax to LAX). Yet while waiting in the gate area, other than the ticket agent making an announcement that all first class passengers needed to report to the desk, us lowly coach passengers were kept in the dark about the length of the delay. The flight was supposed to depart at 0700. Actual departure time was 1545.

Well, they can't re-book all of you, who do you THINK will be the lucky 8/12/16 to get re-booked will be?  Wink
Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
 
jwenting
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting Elite (Thread starter):
he said that he hated travelling economy because he always felt that everyone knew that they were the "cheap people" who paid the least and wanted everything

such people indeed exist, and a lot of them are quite easy to recognise.
They're the ones calling flight attendants every few minutes and are constantly complaining about not getting a free upgrade to first class in these forums...

Personally I travel economy because 1) I can't afford business class and 2) the extra cost isn't really worth it (except maybe during very long flights) if you are a bit careful about the airline you pick (so as not to end up on an aircraft with dense-packed charter layout).

My father used to fly a LOT for his job, and could fly whatever he desired (being CEO and CFO of a multinational, he pretty much set travel policy as well as being the one travelling more than the rest of his staff combined).
He travelled mainly economy on flights under 3 hours, simply because the benefits of business class (better seats with more legroom) don't really matter on shorter flights.
On longhaul he'd travel business class (never first, waste of money) to get to his destination rested so he'd not have to stay in a hotel room and sleep for a day before conducting business (saving himself and the company a lot of time and money).

The company I now work has a policy that noone except board members flies business class or better, ever, except with special permission (which is rarely granted, would have to be an emergency trip on which no economy class seats are available or something else of that nature).
In fact even the CEO usually travels economy, Easyjet having a very good customer in us (there's people going back and forth between Amsterdam and London several times a week).
I wish I were flying
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting Lrgt (Reply 46):
What?? I love CO, but their transcon F class is total garbage... an overnight flight with seats that barely recline, lousy food, and no leg rest in first? It's disgusting... better seats would do a world of difference. I'm considering buying 3 seats in coach next time I go SFO-EWR instead. Can you do that?

CO in general does have better F in terms of food and the staff are nice. I agree though, that sitting on a 737-700 for a 4 hour flight does not compare to US PS or AA.

Maybe you had bad food on a red-eye, but the last few times I have been on CO in F (Paid) I've been very happy compared to most other domestic US airlines.

In general CO F is a very good product for the domestic market.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
ikramerica
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RE: Discrimination Against Economy Pax?

Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Cloudy (Reply 45):
Yes, some restaurants give special deals to repeat customers but they follow several conditions that legacy airlines don't.....

Buddy, you are just wrong. The analogy was doesn't work.

They do hold tables for the best and VIP customers, or even bump reservations to do it.

They will give the last of a certain dish to someone more "important" even if someone else ordered it first.

They are NOT always discrete about it "Mr. X, it's great to see you again, your table is right this way" as others wait.

No, this doesn't happen at taco bell. Or Olive Garden. But those are "LCC" and "coach" restaurants. We are talking about "first class" and there, they discriminate CONSTANTLY in favor of repeat customers and VIPs.

Hotels give special and repeat customers special treatment. So do amusements parks, for goodness sakes! It's just part of life.

Methinks you and this guy are annoyed by life in general in the free world. I'd say go to a communist country to live, but there, it's the same thing except you get special treatment for being important in the party...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.