itsnotfinals
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Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:17 pm

http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/


"Sapphire Airways hopes to become new U.S. start-up "


A former Delta pilot hopes to launch Sapphire Airways next year, a start-up carrier that would connect the USA and India, according to The Economic Times of India. The Times writes the proposed carrier hasn't yet received approval from U.S. officials, but "plans to start its services from San Francisco to Bangalore via Munich from June 2008, the company's Chairman and Founder Rahul Puranik told media here. He said the plans also included to launch a second flight on the Chicago-London-Mumbai sector at a later stage."


This will be interesting to see if takes flight.
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typhaerion
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:03 am

Before all of the naysayers chime in, I want to wish them the best of luck with this endeavor. I just don't think it will be too highly successful given the amount of competition there will be from the big boy players in the area.

I wonder what type of equipment they are planning to use and why they are planning to go east instead of west from SFO.
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:07 am

USA to India. DL just began n/s service to go along with service already offered by AA and CO. AI is looking to begin n/s from the US east coast and is talking about SFO. Jet Airways is coming. Kingfisher has expressed an interest. How many airlines can a handful of routes support?

Why do seemingly intelligent investors choose to throw their money away on a venture that is 99% likely to fail? Unless I am missing one here, there has not been a successful startup since JetBlue. The industry moguls are complaining about over capacity now and inevitable consolidation. So hey, let's start up yet another new airline and waste alot of money!!! For every successful startup, the landscape is littered with failures. I'd love to see all airlines make it, but I am a realist, and I know it's not going to happen.

[Edited 2007-06-12 17:11:44]
 
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legacyins
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:18 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 2):
Why do seemingly intelligent investors choose to throw their money away on a venture that is 99% likely to fail?

I am sure you heard the old joke, "How does a Billionaire become a millionaire?.... Start an Airline."
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:27 am

Sounds like USAfrica
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:28 am

Not another one. Enough already.
One Nation Under God
 
ikramerica
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 3):
I am sure you heard the old joke, "How does a Billionaire become a millionaire?.... Start an Airline."

Backer - (n) 1. a stupid person with money.

That joke was from an otherwise not so great movie called "Ten Things I Hate About You"
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:42 am

Chicago to London?
The route is already served with AA, UA, BA, and VS

London to Mumbai?
The route is already served with BA, VS, AI, 9W

Munich to Bangalore?
Interesting, a new route, this perhaps has potential

San Francisco to Munich?
The route is already served with LH

Odd choice of routes to start, flying in the face of fierce competition. The only way this porject would work is if the fares are rock bottom, and their are older aircraft involved such as the 767-300. Very intersting idea, however reality will be a very different story.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
DXBJFKSCE
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:48 am

Indeed an interesting start up, reality is different but, i think that since there are no flights to BLR from the US - it might work, having said that, i think that if they were to begin direct flights, the company would benfit more but of course you need to find aircrafts that would fit the market for direct flights from SFO to BLR.

What do you guys think? Direct flights to BLR?
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting DXBJFKSCE (Reply 8):
you need to find aircrafts that would fit the market for direct flights from SFO to BLR.

What do you guys think? Direct flights to BLR?

The article says

SFO-MUC-BLR, and later ORD-LON-BOM

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Humberside
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 7):
Munich to Bangalore?
Interesting, a new route, this perhaps has potential

I imagine it would need the LH hub to be successful
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GARUDAROD
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:13 am

Both the SFO area and the Bangalore region are noted for being home bases to many High Tech
companies. Perhaps their plan of action is to provide a link to noted areas with similiar economic
ties. How many companies have farmed out their customer service to India?? It has been
widely discussed that there is a market btwn SFO-BLR, the question is, is it enough to sustain
an airline??
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 11):
It has been
widely discussed that there is a market btwn SFO-BLR, the question is, is it enough to sustain
an airline??

Ask the head of Kingfisher..

Not to mention the management of Jet Airways and Air India.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
davescj
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:57 am

I remember another airline started by former airline employees.....KIWI.......but, hey, good luck to the guy. I'm glad he's following his dreams....
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Davescj (Reply 13):
I remember another airline started by former airline employees.....KIWI.......

Less we forget National Airlines(LAS)?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Flighty
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:42 am

If it is truly so worthwhile, then UA will do it.
 
shane
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:09 pm

It seems to me that SFO-MUC is underserved.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:20 pm

I wonder if this is to be a Silverjet/Maxjet in terms of on-board product?
 
SansVGs
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:35 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Thread starter):
"Sapphire Airways hopes to become new U.S. start-up "

Nice thread...maybe you can dream about this on your LH first to TLV tomorrow Smile

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 3):

I am sure you heard the old joke, "How does a Billionaire become a millionaire?.... Start an Airline."

Exactly. The way I heard it was; "You can make a million dollars in aviation...just start with two."
Winglets on a Falcon are "over-painting" a great work of art.
 
aogdesk
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:52 pm

This is the stuff dreams are made of. Hey, hats off to the guy, who knows, he might have some secret sauce that makes his airline a success.
 
piercey
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 2):
Unless I am missing one here, there has not been a successful startup since JetBlue.

JetBlue: 2000
Eos: 2004
MAXjet: 2005
SkyBus: 2007

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 14):
Quoting Davescj (Reply 13):
I remember another airline started by former airline employees.....KIWI.......

Less we forget National Airlines(LAS)?

Sun Country, the new Frontier  Wink

Best of luck, always great to see someone new to try to get into this industry.

piercey in CLE  Sad
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
centrair
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting Typhaerion (Reply 1):
I wonder what type of equipment they are planning to use and why they are planning to go east instead of west from SFO.

Followed the link in the USA Today blog to the original article.

New US airline plans to fly to India

Quote:
Regarding his $130 million airline company, he said while 35 million was being put in by the promoters, 40 million would be sought from private enterprise and a debt of 45 million would be raised.

In the first phase, the company would acquire long-haul aircraft from the Airbus Industrie.

Puranik also projected a revenue of 40 million dollars in the first year of its operations, during which it would aim at cornering 25 per cent of the traffic on the Indo-US sector.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
757ops
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:58 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 7):
Chicago to London?
The route is already served with AA, UA, BA, and VS

AI also fly ORD-LHR with transit pax being through checked all the way to India, an even easier connection, just stay onboard!
 
typhaerion
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:58 pm

I find it interesting that they want 25% of the Indo-US market share within the first year. That boggles my mind how you can think that with no ff base, a brand new product and heavy competition that you will achieve even a fraction of that goal. They may indeed control a quarter on the routes they serve, but certainly not the entire sector.

So whats our best guess, used A343's, new A345/6, or A333? And what do we think the initial fleet size will be, four or five?
For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
 
787kq
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 7):
The only way this porject would work is if the fares are rock bottom, and their are older aircraft involved such as the 767-300.

That's the fastest way for the airline to fail. High costs and crappy planes on a very long-haul.
 
bennett123
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 10:54 pm

Two points;

1. You do not want the Silverjet punctuality record, where arriving 1 hour late or departing 1 hour late seems to be the norm at present.

2. In the next article about B737's ending at AF, they seem to think B733/B735 are NG.  Wink
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:15 pm

Quoting Piercey (Reply 20):
JetBlue: 2000
Eos: 2004
MAXjet: 2005
SkyBus: 2007

OK, I will grant Eos and Maxjet, but they are hardly network carriers, they have a very specific niche and it's unlikely they will expand too far outside their comfort zone. Skybus? WAY too soon to tell, they have not been flying a month yet so there is no way you can call them a success. When I referred to successful, I meant as in lasting more than 12-18 months. Skybus won't be on this list by then. As for Sapphire, it is an interesting concept, but as previous posts state, they have competition from heavies on all proposed routes. That does not bode well for them.
 
ChicagoFlyer
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Piercey (Reply 20):
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 2):
Unless I am missing one here, there has not been a successful startup since JetBlue.

JetBlue: 2000
Eos: 2004
MAXjet: 2005
SkyBus: 2007

I agree with SkyyMaster, if we only limit the argument to US-based airlines. Skybus is irrelevant to the list since it would be years before we see success or failure. As for Eos or MaxJet, their "success" might only happen if either airline gets bought out. They are both bleeding cash like there's no tomorrow. The fact that a start-up of 2 years ago, as of today, is flying, is not what success is about. Their business model is unsustainable on a standalone basis.

Financially inclined a.netters may want to check out Form 41. "Select all fields", hit "Download" and parse the resulting spreadsheet for Eos and MaxJet. Recoil in horror. These guys can only breakeven if we take out the huge General and Administrative costs, and I doubt all of those are related to starting up....
 
chase
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:44 am

Stupid question: Why fly SFO-BLR heading East? Seems to me that flying slightly West of the pole would be better. Probably no good place to stop that's exactly halfway AND right on a direct path, but ANC or ICN wouldn't be that far off...certainly closer to a straight line than MUC is.
 
Lumberton
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:01 am

Hmmm....so when will we see the 100 firm A320 order? The Paris airshow perhaps?  Wink
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 27):
As for Eos or MaxJet, their "success" might only happen if either airline gets bought out. They are both bleeding cash like there's no tomorrow. The fact that a start-up of 2 years ago, as of today, is flying, is not what success is about. Their business model is unsustainable on a standalone basis.

This I hate to tell you, but when Eos Airlines began they were not expecting to turn a profit for the first 2-4 years. They have the cash, the reserves, and the backing behind them. Dont worry about that!

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
ChicagoFlyer
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RE: Another US Start-up - Sapphire

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:58 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 30):
They have the cash, the reserves, and the backing behind them.

I agree with this statement. In fact, Form 41 balance sheet data shows a major equity (cash) infusion in 2H/2006 for Eos. However, I do not agree with the conclusion that the backing means anything more than increase in the time it will take to burn through the cash.

Quoting Legacyins (Reply 3):
I am sure you heard the old joke, "How does a Billionaire become a millionaire?.... Start an Airline."


I think this is exactly what is going on.

Consider the market. EOS/MaxJet were the first to move in, and had great complementary product offerings (one on high-end and one on low-end of premium transatlantic--I have nothing against the concept, I think it is a great value proposition for the consumer). However, I do not consider their results after 1.5 years (revenue = less than 1/2 of cost) financially successful. Now, the market is more competitive with Silverjet, and potential entries from major carriers loom, made possible by OpenSkies. Fuel prices are on the way up (and Eos does not even have winglets on the 757s). There is no network to feed the loads. I do not see either surviving as independent carriers.

I actually think the startup under discussion for US-India has a good chance to survive the first few years, if they do things just right. Compared to London-US, the market is undeserved... but still I would not bank on long-term success for the startup, and they can mess things up even before that.