nickbbu
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Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:26 pm

This routing of today’s DL 134 JFK-OTP flight is the most unusual I have ever seen… Because the flights going from west to east usually take the southern routes over the Atlantic. And this routing so far north, not very far from the coast of Greenland, is even northern than the normal routing the flights take from east to west, when crossing the Atlantic.
Maybe the flight encountered some unfavorable weather along the way, but even so, not a good reason at all to go that far north… What do you think?


The most frequent routing is colored in red.



Sources: flightview.com and flightaware.com

Nick
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cylw
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:49 pm

As you see their routing below, they are planned via NAT Track T (which is the most northern track going eastbound). Although they may usually fly a more southerly route, this route is not that far out of the way. Possibly the upper winds are favouring flying more north tonight or like you said, they could be avoiding some weather (most likely in Europe) as they usually don't like to plan Nat tracks through significant weather. It's possible also that there are some airway restrictions in Europe forcing them to alter the route.

GREKI3 GREKI JUDDS MARTN QUBIS N197C HO
NATT GOMUP NATT GINGA UN572 TIR UN580
GOW UL602 OTR UL90 DOLAS UL603 ARNEM
UL620 PITOK UL867 NEPOT L851 DIPIN M977
BEDRI
 
ACDC8
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:55 pm

Happens quite often. Sometimes, the westbound TA flights heading toward western North America will fly along the coast of Norway, head over north of Iceland, cross Greenland at about mid-section, north of Hudson's Bay and into northern Alberta, sometimes even not until BC.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
sevenheavy
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:30 pm

The winds across the atlantic this week have been the opposite to the norm. Westbound flights have actually been shorter than eastbound. For example an LHR-JFK flight took 6:15, the same route eastbound took almost 7hrs!.

For this reason airlines are seeking ways to minimise the impact of the eastbound headwinds and are therefore taking slightly less orthodox routings, often far more northerly than usual.

regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
BHD
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:40 pm

Maybe someone can clairfy this, but when I was a kid, about 10 years ago, I had thought Westbound routings stayed pretty close to Iceland and Greenland? Did I imagine this, or were ETOP rules back then limiting routings closer to these countries?

Thanks
Woody
 
B747-437B
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 3):
The winds across the atlantic this week have been the opposite to the norm. Westbound flights have actually been shorter than eastbound.

Yep. Had my shortest ever transatlantic westbound on Sunday - flying time of only 4:32!!!!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
nickbbu
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:53 pm

My eastbound flights were always shorter than those westbound.
So what's the cause of these abnormal winds? Global warming again?

Quoting B747-437B (Reply 5):
Had my shortest ever transatlantic westbound on Sunday - flying time of only 4:32!!!!

Can you tell us the flight and approximate routing?

Nick
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sevenheavy
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting Nickbbu (Reply 6):
So what's the cause of these abnormal winds? Global warming again?

Nothing so sinister I'm afraid  Wink.

The prevailing winds are usually east - west due to the jetstream. Occasionally this shifts from its usual position(s) ( usually in spring or atumn) and allows other weather systems that would usually be north or south of the jetstream to influence the usual wind direction.

Note: this is a very broad explanation. Individual circumstances may be different or more intricate but hopefully you get the idea

This has affected almost all of the flights to the eastern seaboard, eastern canada and even as far south as Florida. Europe-West coast flights have been unaffected as they route farther north over Icelend, Greenland and northern Canada.

Regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting Nickbbu (Reply 6):
Can you tell us the flight and approximate routing?

LGW-YYT on Astraeus 73G. Didn't ask the captain for the routing, sorry. I slept most of the way since I had jumpseated overnight into LGW the previous night.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Mir
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:18 pm

http://virga.sfsu.edu/gif/jetstream_atl_init_00.gif

As you can see, the winds in the higher latitudes are blowing east, but further south they are blowing west. The faster winds are way down south.

-Mir
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MGA
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 2):
Happens quite often. Sometimes, the westbound TA flights heading toward western North America will fly along the coast of Norway, head over north of Iceland, cross Greenland at about mid-section, north of Hudson's Bay and into northern Alberta, sometimes even not until BC.

Taca flights?

MGA
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RobK
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:37 am

I think TA means TransAtlantic in this case, although I appreciate it's far from clear.

R
 
ACDC8
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:32 pm

Quoting MGA (Reply 10):
Taca flights?



Quoting RobK (Reply 11):
I think TA means TransAtlantic in this case, although I appreciate it's far from clear.

TA = Trans Atlantic.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
777
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 5:53 pm

I had a similar experience during a FCO-JFK with Delta a year ago.

Instead of leaving Europe from Brest (Normandy) and flight below the UK and Ireland, they made a correction near Marseille (as you can see in the picture) so that we left Europe flying above Belfast and, after, quite close to Greenland!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Aviospotter/varie/PICT0028.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/Aviospotter/varie/PICT0029.jpg

BTW I guess that the explaination given by SevenHeavy is the right one
 
pizzaandplanes
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:45 pm

Big version: Width: 800 Height: 600 File size: 111kb


Here is a similar weather problem that I encountered on a flight from JAX-EWR. We went all the way to Ohio before going to EWR!
A real man lands where he wants to
 
LGAtoIND
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 14):
Here is a similar weather problem that I encountered on a flight from JAX-EWR. We went all the way to Ohio before going to EWR!

Wow, that is one of the more interesting routes that I have seen. Your track took you right near the Ohio/Indiana border on a NY-Florida flight!!!
 
Jammin
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Pizzaandplanes (Reply 14):

Wow, that's a nice detour  biggrin 

I've had to explain a few times to colleagues why it takes longer to fly west (to Asia) than the other way around... Some people just don't believe that there's strong enough wind way up there at 34,000 ft...  boggled 
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amirs
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:43 am

I had the exact oppisite last week from LAX - TLV. usually they fly way north and cross right over Greenland - 6500 nm, last week the a/c flew over NY and then came into Europe on the French/Spanish boder.
It was an hour longer than usual, 14 and a half hours!. That added about 500 nm to the trip.




[Edited 2007-06-15 18:45:58]
 
eyflyer88
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Nickbbu (Thread starter):
the most unusual I have ever seen

I flew JFK/CAI on Egypt Air flight MS986, they flew the same, if not similar routing. It varies from time to time I guess..
There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings. - Wilbur
 
pilot21
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:43 am

A few years back on an EI A330 flight from DUB-SNN-BOS, we took a very far northerly route just South of Iceland, then Greenland and down over Canada into Boston. While I assumed this was due to strong winds south of us, I found out during my week in Boston from a Friend who had take the plane from BOS to DUB the previous evening that the aircraft had encountered engine trouble in BOS before departure. On my return I knew the Captain and he confirmed the story and also mentioned that the flight I was on was flown much further north to shorten it's ETOPS from the usual 180mins to about 90 or 60mins (it was a while so my figures maybe slightly off).

Can anybody confirm if this was a Pilot decision to fly closer to an alternative airport enroute across the Atlantic - just in case, or would the FAA/CAA have had a programme in place that restricts aircraft that have suffered engine issues within the previous 2 days (for example) to a shorter ETOPS range?
(I know airlines that have suffered a lot of engine issues on ETOPS aircraft can have their ETOPS license suspended - but is/was there an in between level)
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
amirs
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:24 pm

Big version: Width: 400 Height: 340 File size: 11kb


This best shows the different options they take to fly LAX - TLV. Its usually the most northern route, but in the past month they have been flying quit often the most southern route.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Most Unusual Routing Across The Atlantic

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 3):
The winds across the atlantic this week have been the opposite to the norm.

I also experienced the unusual winds this week, flying EWR-DUB and back. The flights were almost exactly the same duration, about 6 hours 20 minutes both ways, which meant we landed about 40 minutes early on the return. We seemed to take fairly normal routes, but perhaps a bit farther north than usual on the eastbound flight.

As an aside, on the flight home I was able to spot a large number of icebergs just off the coast of Newfoundland, not far from Gander--that was an interesting sight I hadn't seen before!

My flights have taken a variety of different tracks across the Atlantic over the years, but one of the more unusual ones I remember was a EWR-FCO flight last year. We headed south along the Jersey shore for a while, then turned left and headed directly east across the ocean, across northern Spain and the Mediterranean.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire

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