LH506
Topic Author
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 9:48 am

Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:50 am

If you look at the recent expansion of the US carries into Europe I noticed that they fly to about every major city in Germany by now (DUS, TXL, STR, HAM, Cologne + MUC + FRA) the same is kind of true for the UK (MAN, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Bristol + LGA and LHW) or to a less extend in Italy. Why do they not expand in the same way into France?? At least I am not aware of flights into Toulouse, Nice, Marseille, Lyon etc. The flights are only into CDG.

Any explanation??
NOT FLOWN: 707 717 736/9 77L 788 300B2 300B4 345 359 RJ70/146-100 F27 ATR72 CRJ1/4/10 E120/135/40 Q1/2/3 M87
 
GlobalATL
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:55 am

Misleading title. Nonetheless I think DL flies to NCE. I'm too lazy to verify tho
TriStar BusinessElite FedEx AirTran Delta Air Lines oneworld SkyTeam JetBlue/jetBlue MAXjet SkyMiles Eos = good spelling
 
SESGDL
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 1):
Misleading title. Nonetheless I think DL flies to NCE. I'm too lazy to verify tho

Yes, DL does fly JFK-NCE and flew JFK-LYS in the past but it didn't work out.

Jeremy
 
LAXintl
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:01 am

A very basic explanation are the realities of France.

France is very Paris centric when it comes to nearly everthing including transportation, economy and business.

Outside of Nice, and some Africa service from places like Marseilles regional cities no matter how big simply do not seem to support long haul services. Even Air France has tried and failed with service from places like Lyon (a secondary hub for AF).
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
DALCE
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting GlobalATL (Reply 1):
Misleading title. Nonetheless I think DL flies to NCE. I'm too lazy to verify tho

What is misleading in the title, I think that it's a very good question.
I think NW has no use of flying into France as AF / KL can offer good connections to various cities in France via AMS.

DL is also partner of AF/KL so the same here

CO is running out of equipment for expanding in Europe, but also here AF/KL have the network ready.

US is StarAllliance so a bit of a different story, Most US passengers will have to connect on the LH hubs and continue on LH to their French destinations.

Off course direct flights would be preferable, but as most US carriers are still in ch.11 or just left it, they just don't have the equipment ready for more expansions in Europe. Yield and Cargo demand will play a big role in selecting new destinations.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
AA737-823
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:05 am

Not to mention, Air France is a pretty good carrier, and is a founding member of SkyTeam... You don't see Continental or Northwest going ballistic with services to various cities in the Netherlands, KLM commuter carriers have that covered.

On the other hand, there is NO sykteam in Germany or Britain, to speak of. So Continental has done their homework and discovered that you can fill a 757 to Bristol and Berlin.

As far as your title goes, all of the carriers you list do, in fact, fly to France. You score an F for eye-catching ridiculous title.
 
PDXBJV
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:07 am

Is it Air France, or Delta that flies to Strasbourg from ATL? I know it's one of them but I'm not sure.
TK787 PDX-BJV direct????
 
DALCE
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:11 am

I think he means it not that black / white. Take also your time to read his post where he says "the flights are only to CDG"

He means : why do CO, NW, DL, US not fly to more destinations in France.
Please stop picking at the title.
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,E75,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,753,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
FlySSC
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 6):
Is it Air France, or Delta that flies to Strasbourg from ATL? I know it's one of them but I'm not sure.

There is no flight to SXB (Strasbourg) from ATL or anywhere in the U.S

Air France started to fly, in the early 90s, a 2 x Weekly SXB-LIL-JFK with A310-300 but stopped after just a couple months or so.

As mentionned in a post above, the only direct nonstop service from/to the U.S to/from France, other than Paris, is operated by Delta on JFK-NCE-JFK .
Delta also operated ATL-NCE-ATL* last summer but did not resume the flight for the summer 2007

*ATL-NCE-ATL summer 2006 : 4 x Weekly in May & June, 5 x Weekly July & Aug., 3 x Weekly in Sept.
 
tinpusher007
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting DALCE (Reply 4):
What is misleading in the title, I think that it's a very good question.
I think NW has no use of flying into France as AF / KL can offer good connections to various cities in France via AMS.

It is a valid question, but the wording of it suggests that none of these carriers fly to France, period and they all serve CDG!
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
LGAtoIND
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:46 am

If I had to guess, I would think that either DL or CO start service to LYS with the 757.
 
Viscount724
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 8):
Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 6):
Is it Air France, or Delta that flies to Strasbourg from ATL? I know it's one of them but I'm not sure.

There is no flight to SXB (Strasbourg) from ATL or anywhere in the U.S

You may be confusing Strasbourg, France (SXB) with Stuttgart, Germany (STR) which DL does serve nonstop from ATL. It's the only direct USA-STR service.

By the way, GVA which has nonstop service from JFK on LX (and soon QR) and from EWR on CO can almost be considered as service to France. When you arrive at GVA airport which is located almost on the French border, you have the choice of entering either Switzerland or France and clearing the appropriate immigration/customs authorities. If you choose to enter France there's a fenced "customs road" about 2 km long that leads directly into France.

[Edited 2007-06-13 21:00:34]
 
rwsea
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:53 am

As others have mentioned, France's business and economy is centered in Paris. And while tourism throughout France is high, it is also centered on Paris and the Mediterranean (which is served by DL, JFK-NCE). Compare this with Germany, Italy, Spain, or Britain where there are multiple business and tourist centers that can support such flights. Additional routes to NCE and LYS have been tried (by DL) and have failed. However, with that in mind, there have been rumors that DL and CO will add flights to secondary markets in France in the next few years as they expand their 757s-to-Europe strategy.

Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 6):
Is it Air France, or Delta that flies to Strasbourg from ATL? I know it's one of them but I'm not sure.

You're thinking of Stuttgart (STR), which which is served daily from ATL with DL.
 
FlySSC
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 10):
If I had to guess, I would think that either DL or CO start service to LYS with the 757.

I doubt.
AA used to fly the route and pulled out in the 90s.
Then DL tried also to operate the route early 2000 after SkyTeam was formed. Even with the help of AF and a codeshare, the route was not profitable and was closed.

AF studied recently (last year) to reopen a nonstop LYS-EWR flight with a "Dedicate" A319LR service, but the project was finally abandonned, after being declared unprofitable.
 
Mir
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:59 am

CO also serves GVA from EWR, and while not technically in France, it does provide easy access to the French Alps and surrounding areas.

Quoting PDXBJV (Reply 6):
Is it Air France, or Delta that flies to Strasbourg from ATL? I know it's one of them but I'm not sure.

You may be thinking of DL's flight from ATL to Stuttgart.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Flighty
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:01 am

France can be reached by 757 so I think we will see more service using the 757. Maybe NW DTW-NCE or.... etc.
 
LGAtoIND
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Then DL tried also to operate the route early 2000 after SkyTeam was formed. Even with the help of AF and a codeshare, the route was not profitable and was closed.

Yes, but DL flew the route with a 767-300. I flew the route a few times, and from my experience loads were decent, not fabulous, but decent. It seems like it would be a good route from either JFK or EWR with a 757. Not only because of the O&D from NYC, but everyone in LYS could get 1 stop service to most cities in the U.S., unlike now where they have to usually double connect in CDG and then ATL/CVG/DFW.
 
hjulicher
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Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities in France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:19 am

The secondary cities in France are also much smaller and less global than those in Germany and England. While Frankfurt is the center of European banking, Dusseldorf and it's environs is huge.... MEGA, in fact, DUS has been long overlooked I think, and it deserves the service, but FRA is too close for LH to do anything significant with DUS, thus it's left in the dust. Milan and Rome are two very large cities. LYS is only at .5million, so it doesn't really compare with other cities that are getting direct service. However, those cities in England are technically closer for CO to serve and do share a common language aspect. Thus, I don't see the feasibility of expanding operations in France. My best bet would go to NCE, LYS, and SXB.
LH 442
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:28 am

One reason that comes to mind about the lack of flights from the US to cities other than Paris, is that there is little demand from the French side to fly to the US. Since virtually all flights US to Europe are supported mainly by Europeans rather than USA boardings, this would be a large deficit to make up.

French tourism to the US is almost non-existant and the is very little if any VFR traffic. Paris can support flights to the US but not the other French cities. The French only vacation in former French possessions where French is spoken. ie: they travel to Quebec but not to Ontario.

I also agree it was a mis-leading title.
 
desertjets
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):
A very basic explanation are the realities of France.

France is very Paris centric when it comes to nearly everthing including transportation, economy and business.

France has been that way since at least the reign of Louis XIV, if not earlier. Very literally all roads lead to Paris.

As a result the secondary cities of France really are quite minor in comparison to other 2nd tier European cities... such as Frankfurt vs. Düsseldorf (or any other German city in the Rhein-Ruhr region) or London vs. Manchester.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
MAH4546
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 18):
French tourism to the US is almost non-existant and the is very little if any VFR traffic. Paris can support flights to the US but not the other French cities. The French only vacation in former French possessions where French is spoken. ie: they travel to Quebec but not to Ontario.

That does generalize it a little too much. Miami, New York City, and Los Angeles are all very popular desitnations for the French, especially Miami. Though, you are right in that it isn't really spread out as much as others (i.e. Germans love to travel all over the US - Alaska, Florida, Arizona, Colorado, Michigan, etc.).
a.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities I

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:51 am

The only 3 French cities I could see getting flights from the U.S. (better read "from EWR or JFK") in 1-2 years would be MRS, LYS, MLH or BOD. And that service may not be even daily.
Same could be said for secondary Spanish cities like AGP, BIO, VLC, SCQ, PMI or even IBZ.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 17):
LYS is only at .5million

Lyon urban area is somewhere between 1.2 and 1.5 million, with a catchment area (Rhone Alpes region, pretty much) of approx. 5 million. Marseille urban area between 1 and 1.2, with a larger catchemnt area (Avignon, Aix, Toulon, Nimes...), Lille also over 1 million, a huge catchment area of 4 million (Nord-Pas de Calais region) and more if we include its extension in Belgium, NCE also nears the million and catches some of Italy (and a lot of $$$ around due to Monaco).
Your number is true but only includes Lyon CITY (municipality), of which the territory is tiny. Such is true for all french cities when compared to foreign countries, their territory is usually very small and that deforms one's perception on the city's actual size.

Still, with 1.5 million, the second city of a country of 60 million people ranks as SMALL. Canada's # 2 (YUL) is over 3 million (urban area), Italy's # 2 urban area (Rome) over 3 million, Spain's # 2 (Barcelona) also over 3 million and so on... The UK urban areas might be a bit similar to France, but the UK's liguistic ties, its booming economy, and its geographical location (allowing the use of the smaller 757, AND being an island), and its LACK OF HIGH SPEED TRAINS makes for a totally different situation.

Add to that the efficiency of the TGV and you get the point.... France does not have cities outside PAR that are big enough to sustain US flights, and the TGV kills any hopes of tryouts... Furthermore, LYS is very close and very well linked by road and rail to GVA who has US flights... A few cities are left with no TGV (Toulouse, Nice...), and with no surprise, one of them (NCE) has the only flight to the US...

When it comes to touristic flights though, different situation: MRS, BDO, LYS, TLS, NTE all have TS to YUL for instance.
When I doubt... go running!
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:19 am

France is not like Germany with economic activity spread thru out the whole country. There are other large cities but they dotn have the business traffic that a MUC or DUS would have
 
Viscount724
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 21):
The only 3 French cities I could see getting flights from the U.S. (better read "from EWR or JFK") in 1-2 years would be MRS, LYS, MLH or BOD.

Swissair did briefly operate BSL-EWR (BSL/MLH same airport) nonstsop 6 days a week with an A330-200 starting in mid-December 1998. I don't think it lasted more than a year, maybe less. BSL with a metropolitan area population of about 700,000, and the headquarters of several of the big Swiss pharmaceutical manufacturers (e.g. Novartis, Roche) is probably one of the largest cities in Europe that lacks nonstop service to the USA, although being only 1 hour by train or car from ZRH airport doesn't help it's chances of developing longhaul service, except some charters. It also has quite a bit of longhaul all-cargo service.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Swissair did briefly operate BSL-EWR (BSL/MLH same airport) nonstsop 6 days a week with an A330-200 starting in mid-December 1998.

an A330 is probably too big for a BSL/MLH-NYC flight. BSL/MLH is CO/DL B757 material.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
1stfl94
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:47 am

All of the main French cities are easily accessible from Paris compared to equivalents in Germany and the UK for example. Also the catchment areas for some French cities include other international airports i.e Lyon is major part of GVA's catchment, similarly Lille probably provides a lot of traffic for BRU, Strasbourg is more easily accessible from Cologne and Frankfurt.
 
IADCA
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:04 am

The TGV station at CDG doesn't help matters for some of the other cities, either. In my experience, I found it easier to just take the TGV to CDG from the middle of Lyon than to bother taking the bus from Part-Dieu to LYS and then worrying about making a connection in Paris.

Don't know about connecting to a flight in GVA from Lyon, but I'd suspect it's not too hard as the airport isn't that far from Cornavin, and the train links are really easy.

As for the tourist aspect, not that many American tourists are interested in a whole lot in France besides Paris...sometimes the Alps, sometimes the Riviera, more frequently the battlefields and history of both World Wars, but overwhelmingly it's just Paris, sadly.
 
burnsie28
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
On the other hand, there is NO sykteam in Germany or Britain, to speak of.

Really?

GERMANY

DL-767/777
FRA about 5x daily
TXL
MUC
STR
DUS

CO:
TXL
FRA
HAM
CGN

NW:
DUS
FRA (2x daily)

Great Britain:
DL:
London
Manchester
Edinburg

CO:
Glasgow
Edinburg
Birmingham
Manchester
London

NW:
London.

Pretty good for both places. More so then what Star or Oneworld serves from the US.
 
SR 103
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 28):
Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
On the other hand, there is NO sykteam in Germany or Britain, to speak of.

Really?

I think he meant an airline within Skyteam based in Germany or Britain which both other alliances clearly have.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 28):
Pretty good for both places. More so then what Star or Oneworld serves from the US

That sentence is overkill. Star has LH from Germany which serves more destinations in the US from Germany that any airline in Skyteam. With British Airways in oneworld, they also serve a lot more destinations out of the UK when compared to any airline in Skyteam. Skyteam wins when it comes to France, Holland, Russia and Italy.

Skyteam may be very strong across the Atlantic, however they still can not be considered the strongest alliance in any of the Star or oneworld markets I am afraid.

SR 103
 
burnsie28
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 29):
With British Airways in oneworld, they also serve a lot more destinations out of the UK when compared to any airline in Skyteam. Skyteam wins when it comes to France, Holland, Russia and Italy.

All flights lead to London or Manchester from the US, connecting flights I wasn't counting.
 
WunalaYann
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting SR 103 (Reply 29):
Skyteam may be very strong across the Atlantic, however they still can not be considered the strongest alliance in any of the Star or oneworld markets I am afraid.

Well, if I have to choose between market shares and profits...  Wink


Regarding the subject of the thread, I do not see how the title would be misleading. Why US Skyteam carriers do not fly to more cities in France? How can this be misleading?

I think the impact of the TGV is grossly underestimated on A.net. Then again, nothing overly suprising since this an AVIATION website. But I am still a bit baffled sometimes when I look at how the connectivity and complementarity between air travel and other modes of transportation are overlooked.

French land/town/transport planners struck gold twice. Once with the TGV and then twice with TGV stations in airports.

NCE and TLS are served by TGV but the actual high speed rail track goes only 2/3 and 1/4 of the way there, respectively.

Cheers.
 
jacobin777
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities I

Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:15 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 3):

France is very Paris centric when it comes to nearly everthing including transportation, economy and business.

...I might even say "AF"-centric (to a certain extent)..AA couldn't get SJC-CDG to work and UA out of its fortress hub of SFO couldn't get a simple SFO-CDG route to work.....while AF brings the A343 during the winter and B744 during the summer.. yes ...


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TYCOON
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:09 pm

First off, I have no problem with this title. I immediately understood the point LH506 was raising.

Secondly, there is a lot of ignorance on this site! One of the main reasons for little secondary French cities not being served by direct flights to the US is of course the excellent high speed TGV trains that link CDG directly with most of the major cities in France. The TGV station is directly in CDG Terminal 2 so transfer is quick and painless (there is also a TGV station at the airport in Lyon). In addition, you arrive directly in the centre of the city.

Although France has a strong history of centralization and the financial heart of France is Paris, Lyon, Toulouse, Bordeaux, Montpellier, Lille, Nantes and Marseille are all vibrant economic cities in their own right. Toulouse is the home of Airbus, Lyon a historic and very wealthy textile centre, Marseille is the largest port in the Mediterranean... Need I go on. You can even advance the solid argument that regional economies are more vibrant in France than in the UK. If you actually look at the stats, most of the economic growth in the UK is very London-centric. Economic growth in France is actually higher around Montpellier and Toulouse than it is in the Paris region.

Direct flights between the US and the UK make sense since it is such a pain to fly into London and then hop on a train to anywhere in the UK. It would take forever. Not the case in France.

Germany, Italy and Spain are traditionally more decentralized economies. In the German case, Frankfurt is not even one of the top 5 largest cities in the country. In Italy, a lot of VFR traffic. For Spain, Barcelona is just as poweful economically as Madrid and with a large population.

The most ridiculous statement on this thread, I'd like to point out, goes to Bobnwa! Come on! Where does he get that from? There are many, many French people who spend their holidays in the US (they love New York, Miami, Route 66 and California, just to name a few spots). Most French people I know have been to the US multiple times and those who haven't dream of it. Add to that the strong economic ties between France and the US (for a number of years, France was one of the three largest direct investors into the US economy) means alot of business travel.
 
foxxray
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:31 pm

Lyon was served by AA and DL back in 90s from JFK with 767... i think CO can make money with a 757 on the EWR-LYS route !

Lyon is becoming more and more important, you just have to see Lyon Bron airport (LYN); business traffic is growing... : 15% of growth during 2005, 16% during 2006 ! there are bizjets flying from LYN to the US almost everyday...

Don't forget that LYS has flights to YUL and YYZ with TS, to RUN with Air Austral (777) and Corsair (A330, 747), to FDF (A330, 747) and to PTP (A330, 747) !
 
pizzaandplanes
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:37 pm

Having AF on the skyteam alliance helps a lot. The connection through CDG to any France airport is so easy that it is not worth operating another transatlantic flight. The true question is this...Why doesn't AF fly transatlantic from more airports in France?
A real man lands where he wants to
 
foxxray
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:44 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 18):
One reason that comes to mind about the lack of flights from the US to cities other than Paris, is that there is little demand from the French side to fly to the US. Since virtually all flights US to Europe are supported mainly by Europeans rather than USA boardings, this would be a large deficit to make up.

French tourism to the US is almost non-existant and the is very little if any VFR traffic. Paris can support flights to the US but not the other French cities. The French only vacation in former French possessions where French is spoken. ie: they travel to Quebec but not to Ontario.

I also agree it was a mis-leading title.

What are you smoking ??
little demand from France ?? oh yes everytime i go to the US i'm the only french onboard... your statement is totally wrong !
the USA is one of the strongest destination for french !
 
goldorak
Posts: 1363
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 18):
French tourism to the US is almost non-existant and the is very little if any VFR traffic. Paris can support flights to the US but not the other French cities. The French only vacation in former French possessions where French is spoken. ie: they travel to Quebec but not to Ontario.

 no  you have really wrong information. Please, check your facts.

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 33):
The most ridiculous statement on this thread, I'd like to point out, goes to Bobnwa! Come on! Where does he get that from? There are many, many French people who spend their holidays in the US (they love New York, Miami, Route 66 and California, just to name a few spots). Most French people I know have been to the US multiple times and those who haven't dream of it. Add to that the strong economic ties between France and the US (for a number of years, France was one of the three largest direct investors into the US economy) means alot of business travel.

totally agreed. You can also find a lot of French tourists in the national parks in AZ, UT, CO
 
bobnwa
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 33):
The most ridiculous statement on this thread, I'd like to point out, goes to Bobnwa! Come on! Where does he get that from? There are many, many French people who spend their holidays in the US (they love New York, Miami, Route 66 and California, just to name a few spots). Most French people I know have been to the US multiple times and those who haven't dream of it. Add to that the strong economic ties between France and the US (for a number of years, France was one of the three largest direct investors into the US economy) means alot of business travel.

For a country with a population of over 60 million, the French tourism market to the US is very small. But to be fair the French tourism market to most any country is very small in comparison to the inbound tourism from that country. The international tourism market departing France is small for a country of its size. In the past I have seen these figures, but no longer have access to them. If you have figures that contradict this, I would like to see them.

I have to admit that France is such a wonderful country to be in, that its citizens never want to leave.
 
foxxray
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 38):
For a country with a population of over 60 million, the French tourism market to the US is very small. But to be fair the French tourism market to most any country is very small in comparison to the inbound tourism from that country. The international tourism market departing France is small for a country of its size. In the past I have seen these figures, but no longer have access to them. If you have figures that contradict this, I would like to see them.

I have to admit that France is such a wonderful country to be in, that its citizens never want to leave.

Here are the 8 biggest vacations destinations for french : Spain, Italy, Portugal, Tunisia, USA, UK, Canada and Morocco !

English are the biggest travellers in Europe, Spanish are the smallest...
France is in the average !
 
pmg1704
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:46 pm

I'm wondering if the answer has to do with the question, Why doesn't AF fly from more cities in France to North America?
 
2travel2know
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 40):
Why doesn't AF fly from more cities in France to North America?

CDG is AF hub, for AF to offer non-stop flights from other major French airports to The States (read EWR or JFK) and Canada (read YUL) would mean that the demand for point-to-point is very high to support frequent weekly service (thrice weekly up to daily) and no U.S./Canadian airline is flying the route or there's also room for AF on that route.
Airport pairs that would come to mind:
EWR/JFK <> ORY, LYS, MRS, NCE, MLH
ORD <> ORY, NCE
LAX <> NCE (this would be nice for PPT connections @ LAX)
YUL <> ORY, MRS, NCE
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
haggis79
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 16):
Not only because of the O&D from NYC, but everyone in LYS could get 1 stop service to most cities in the U.S., unlike now where they have to usually double connect in CDG and then ATL/CVG/DFW.

if you insist in flying on a US carrier, then yes.... but frankly, maybe you should consider there are other carriers as well... I guess you can already get 1-stop service to most important cities in the US from LYS via CDG on AF, MUC or FRA on LH, AMS on KL or LHR on BA.... not much difference in flying LYS-CDG-SFO compared with e.g. LYS-EWR-SFO... (albeit I'd prefer the former, as the connecting flight is shorter....)
300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
 
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mbm3
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:32 pm

I think we will see CO expand to secondary cities in France once they free up more 752s from domestic service next year, with BOD and NCE being tops on the list.
Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
 
co777er
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:12 am

Simply stated: 3 of those are Skyteam Airlines. A connection at CDG on AF is their current solution.
 
PYP757
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:39 am

You should not forget about the French state-of-the-art high-speed train network (TGVs), all connecting at CDG. A mere 50 mins to Lille, or 1h15 to Brussels! Under 2 hours for Lyons. All terminals in the heart of the cities - right where passengers want to end up anyway. An affordable and pleasant way to travel in my opinion. With the increasing congestion in the air, I admire the vision of europeans who don't see air travel (or a gas-guzzling SUV) as the only way to get from A to B.
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: Why Do CO, NW, DL, US Not Fly To More Cities In France?

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:26 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 13):
Quoting LGAtoIND (Reply 10):
If I had to guess, I would think that either DL or CO start service to LYS with the 757.

I doubt.
AA used to fly the route and pulled out in the 90s.
Then DL tried also to operate the route early 2000 after SkyTeam was formed. Even with the help of AF and a codeshare, the route was not profitable and was closed.

AF studied recently (last year) to reopen a nonstop LYS-EWR flight with a "Dedicate" A319LR service, but the project was finally abandoned, after being declared unprofitable.

Actually Tourmag.com is saying in this article (sorry, only in French)

http://www.tourmag.com/Air-France-a-...-chambardement-de-2008_a20334.html

that DL is considering re-launching JFK-LYS in 2008 with a B757.
Let's hope it is true for LYS.

Aurelien