xtra1
Posts: 79
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:47 am

Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:44 pm

Easyjet have been all over the news today and I see that they are jumping on the 'environmentally friendly' band-wagon.
They said that they plan to introduce a new "Ecojet" by 2015.
Here's a pic:-
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b259/xtra1/ecojet11.jpg
Strange looking plane. The front looks suspiciously like the 787!
 
teahan
Posts: 4988
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:48 pm

http://www.easyjet.com/EN/News/easyjet_ecojet.html

Going beyond the PR hype, it's interesting because it spells out exactly what easyJet are looking for in a new narrowbody aircraft. Some interesting notes in the press release about configuration, cruise speed, range, etc.

I wonder if there's anything to be read in the timing of this announcement?

[Edited 2007-06-14 13:56:12]
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:54 pm

Shame they don't plan to drop the orange in 2015.
 
Clydenairways
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:27 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:09 pm

I'd say it looks more like a Caravelle - Look at the passenger windows and the nose section.. The rear, well - that's off a hovercraft.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:11 pm

Add a canard, and then talk to Piaggio about stretching the P-180. After all, it wouldn't be the first business aircraft stretched into a commercial airliner.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:13 pm

Looks like a real beauty to me - I wonder who will come up with the technology to make an unducted fan without housing that fulfills noise requirements.
But the designers wet-dreams are not neccessarily full-filled byt the guys who have to build the airframe and fans.
Nevertheless- a great initiative and a kick into the traditional aircraft designe mood.But someone must have designed the model-so would be interesting to know who that did?
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 2939
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:34 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:34 pm

How exactly would they plan to introduce such an aircraft in 2015 if no company has one in planning?

Or have they...??
 
parapente
Posts: 1278
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:42 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:34 pm

"Shame they don't plan to drop the orange in 2015". Thats it!- Thats all we think of the first public attempt by an airline to really try to address the key issues of today and tomorrow. Oh I suppose the windows were a funny shape as well
 
justloveplanes
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 5:38 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:40 pm

It looks like one of the Boeing concept studies that has been floating around. That article that resurfaces every year with picutures of designs of the future and includes prop fans, BWB's and one other concept which doesn't come to mind now.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Justloveplanes (Reply 8):
That article that resurfaces every year with picutures of designs of the future and includes prop fans, BWB's and one other concept which doesn't come to mind now.

I have the impression Easyjet this time do a little more than just a PR event.The company is acting slightly different than Ryanair or the other Low-Cost's and their statements regarding environment seem genuine.If they can push manufacturers to speed up their design-projetcs and actually switch from conceptual state into prototype analysis,it would be a tremendous tep forward.
Main task with though be with the engine-manufacturers to demonstarte a gear-boxed unducted fan.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:46 pm

Separated at birth?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Javier Rodriguez - Iberian Spotters


[Edited 2007-06-14 14:51:58]
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 2):
Shame they don't plan to drop the orange in 2015.

God you're miserable.... Big grin

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
User avatar
solnabo
Posts: 5006
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:53 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Clydenairways (Reply 3):
I'd say it looks more like a Caravelle

Very true...

Why oh why the orange/white livery?

Micke//  wave 
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
Salomon
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:18 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:11 pm

Press Release

Quoting Easyjet:

-The design range of the easyJet ecoJet should be 2,000 nm or less
-The airframe will be made of advanced weight-reducing materials similar to those used in current projects like the Boeing 787
-The projection for the eco-liner would generate less than 47g of CO2 per passenger km. For comparison, easyJet’s current operations generate 97.5g of CO2 per passenger km, the Toyota Prius emits 104g of CO2 per kilometre
-The easyJet ecoJet will form a family of aircraft from 150-250 seats in single class configuration (130-220 seats in 2-class)
-The easyJet ecoJet will remain in production beyond 2040 the industrial requirement will be to produce more than 60 aircraft a month
-One would expect the wing to be manufactured out of carbon fibre.
-The requirements of a laminar flow wing will dictate a slightly slower design cruise speed – Mach 0.75 compared to Mach 0.78/0.79 for today’s conventional designs.
-easyJet is working closely with all the relevant airframe and engine manufacturers on the next generation of short-haul aircraft
Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4033
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:30 pm

 
keesje
Posts: 8599
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:08 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:36 pm

I think we should put to much value in the design, its good PR, showing they care.

What is interesting is that the industry is pushing the OEM with regards to not being satisfied with a few percent better efficiency for the next generation NB's.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Stil
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:49 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:44 pm

It may be as green as you want... but is a nightmare for every trim-loadsheet agent!!

Stil
....... Gueropppa! ......
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 11):
God you're miserable....

Thanks.

Was just a view about the livery.
 
SeJoWa
Posts: 410
Joined: Thu May 18, 2006 6:11 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:06 pm

I prefer the engines to be far apart for obvious reasons.

The wing is swept forward slightly, interesting. That would make it a Fozzie Kermit.

This goes into the putative Y1+ territory!
 
VirginFlyer
Posts: 3882
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:40 pm

This is quite an interesting concept - between this and the rumblings coming out of the engine manufacturers, it seems as though the prop-fan is coming back into vogue (and who knows, maybe triangular windows too - Caravelle lovers rejoice!). There are a couple of articles which provide some interesting pictures:

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2103055,00.html (note the forward swept wing and the empennage which reminds me of a certain transonic concept aircraft from a few years back)

http://www.channel4.com/news/article...+green+vision+for+the+skies/559432 (close up of the engines, and also a video which shows the model in some detail).

There are a couple of issues with this design concept (not necessarily problems, just issues which will need to be considered) which I'd like to point out.

1) By locating the engines off the wing, you lose the bending moment relief the weight of the engines provides, and thus the wing needs to be stronger, and thus heavier. (For those unfamiliar with the concept, basically the wing will try to bend upwards in flight, due to the lift being generated along its length, and the majority of the aircraft's weight being concentrated at the root. By applying some weight at a position along the span of the wing, the amount of upwards bending moment at the wing root is reduced, and thus the wing doesn't have to be designed to be as strong.)

2) The location of the engines on this concept doesn't seem to lend itself to easy access for service.

3) A fair bit of testing would need to be conducted into the effect of a blade being spat - from the look of the design, it seems as though it would very likely take out a significant amount of the tail control surfaces, or even the entire stabiliser.

An alternative design placing the engines over the top of the wing would address the first problem, and possibly the second, although the third seems like it will be an issue regardless of the placement of the engine.

In order to prevent excessive cabin noise, an over-the-wing installation of the engines might well require a high wing, which in itself is not desirable, as it puts structural elements through the passenger cabin rather than the cargo hold. Engines mounted above a high mounted wing would also be harder to access than those above a low mounted wing.

Like most designs, there will be trade-offs and compromises. It could well be that the cost savings realised from the fuel consumption outweigh the costs of having heavier wings with harder to access engines. It will be very interesting to see if an airframer can make a concept such as this work...

As an afterthought, I wonder how easy it would be to design the aircraft such that it could be fitted either with open rotor prop-fans or traditional closed rotor engines. If it could be done, it would yield a rather versatile family of aircraft in the 70-240 seat category which offered open rotor engines and a low MTOW for short range efficiency, or closed rotor engines and higher MTOW for longer range missions. Boeing has been studying the idea of a modular family for the Y1/737RS with different fuselages widths and wings - I wonder whether such a modular concept could be reasonably extended to different powerplant types.

With Paris less than a week away, and the world's attention firmly on environmental issues, I wonder how many other environmentally driven concepts are going to see the light of day in the near future...

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
richardw
Posts: 3131
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Parapente (Reply 7):
"Shame they don't plan to drop the orange in 2015". Thats it!- Thats all we think of the first public attempt by an airline to really try to address the key issues of today and tomorrow. Oh I suppose the windows were a funny shape as well

Was just a view about the livery.

You haven't said anything about the airliner, this is airliners.net and not mud-slinging.com BTW.
 
flytuitravel
Posts: 489
Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 2:46 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:54 am

Is this a joke?


FLYTUITRAVEL.
 
scouseflyer
Posts: 2165
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:02 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 14):
I thought this looked familiar:

They should make Honeydew - that's a proper looker of a plane!
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:32 am

2015 huh....well someone better get started on thos computers, it's only 7.5 years from now.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
NDSchu777
Posts: 389
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:29 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:31 am

Definitely an interesting concept. It will be interesting to see if Boeing and Airbus are going to incorporate a more radical design like this into the next generation of narrowbody aircraft.

Definitely a smart move on easyJet's part, especially since the heart of the "aviation is single-handedly destroying the environment" seems to be centered in the UK. The industry needs to tout advances in technology like this now before we're labled as public enemy #1 and we're just taxed out of business.
 
Beaucaire
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:38 am

Quoting NDSchu777 (Reply 24):
Definitely an interesting concept. It will be interesting to see if Boeing and Airbus are going to incorporate a more radical design like this into the next generation of narrowbody aircraft.

Why not Embraer ???
If Airbus forges some kind of lose alliance with the Brazilians,as suggested, to jointly develop a new un-ducted fan aircraft?
Again -to build the cell would be relatively easy - the tricky part would be for the motorists.
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Birdseed
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:12 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 12):
Why oh why the orange/white livery?

Cheap paint?  Wink
 
GateHold
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:03 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:32 am

It looks like if you took a Caravelle and made it really, really ugly.
 
QFA380
Posts: 2013
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:38 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:14 pm

Their saying that 10% of the fuel used today can be eradicated with new ATC technology and esign. How exactly would this work?

I don't think ATC technology will advance that far considering that much of the technology in place today was in use in 2000. That would also suggest that every other aircraft would also benefit from this new technology meaning saying that these figures shouldn't be included. Thats like saying that when SIDS/STARS were introduced, the newest plane at the time was the only that could take advantage of them.

Also, this:

Quote:
Q: How fast will it fly?
A: The requirements of a laminar flow wing will dictate a slightly slower design cruise speed – Mach 0.75 compared to Mach 0.78/0.79 for today’s conventional designs. On the average short haul sector this would add 3-10 minutes to the flight (imposing a financial cost on the airline), but it is anticipated that air traffic control improvements and faster turn around times on the ground will compensate for this increase in flight time

So their saying that ATC technology will make up for the slower speed, again it will still be slower as other aircraft will be using those same ATC improvements.
 
calags
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:07 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:28 pm

Looks like the 7J7 re-imagined  Smile

If I recall correctly unducted fans were considered for that design but the price of oil dropped and the concept was shelved.

If the airlines look to have the planes run slower to reduce drag then wouldn't transcontinental flights suffer in comparison to short hops?
 
WestJetYQQ
Posts: 2763
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:31 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting Xtra1 (Thread starter):
Strange looking plane. The front looks suspiciously like the 787!

I like the 737NG winglets glued on the back!  Wink
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
thegreatchecko
Posts: 689
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:34 pm

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:41 pm

I immediately thought about the unducted fan ala McDonnell Douglas when I read the article. The concept looks pretty cool actually. Weren't those Pratt and Whitney engines that were on the experimental mad dog? I wonder if anyone else has put much research into the concept since it pretty much fizzled.

Me thinks, the noise issue will be a big one. If built, I'm looking forward to the debate about air vs. noise pollution and what we will be willing to give up to cut down on emissions.

Quoting Parapente (Reply 7):
"Shame they don't plan to drop the orange in 2015". Thats it!- Thats all we think of the first public attempt by an airline to really try to address the key issues of today and tomorrow. Oh I suppose the windows were a funny shape as well

Take a deep breath...good.

Personally, I like their livery, its unique. This being airliners.net, debating livery color is quite privy to the conversation. If you want to talk about other things, I think non-av might be a good place to do it.

It would be a shame if this thread were to turn into a mud slinging match that ends up so far off topic no one knows what we are talking about and it gets canned.

Checko
"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
 
AirbusA6
Posts: 1484
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:53 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:51 am

Interesting to see a LCC trying to drive the argument about the future design of aircraft. SRB has been talking about the environment a lot recently too, I guess it's politically sensible to show caring about the environment now  Wink

From memory, the engine designers working on this concept 20 years ago were GE and PW/Allison, I wonder how much of the work from then is still relevant? PW/Allison is now PW/RR of course, fitting perfectly into IAE...
it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
Glom
Posts: 2051
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:38 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:21 am

I'm not getting the name of a manufacturer here. EasyJet don't make planes, they just fly them. On whose expertise do they offer this new design as the way forward?
 
Rivet42
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:26 am

RE: Easyjet's New Ecojet

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:54 am

What exactly is the problem here? The major airlines have been driving configuration (which drives design) for years, neither Boeing nor Airbus would move one inch from the drawing board if they didn't have the approval of several large potential customers.

It makes absolute sense for a no-frills operator like U2, who like FR, WN, B6 have significant purchasing power, to promote the kind of aircraft that they'd like to be operating in 2015.

Well done for them. Of course they may not end up with anything like their proposal, but they have seen where the market is heading, and they're trying to influence it. It's good PR, but it's even better business sense.

By the way I quite like their colour-scheme, but it's rather irrelevant to the concept of the next generation of low emission aircraft.

Riv'
I travel, therefore I am.