BigSky123
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Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:04 pm

Quote:
PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is confident it can meet its goal to roll its first 787 "Dreamliner" jet off the production line on July 8, the U.S. plane maker's chief executive said in a newspaper interview published on Friday.

"We are working intensively to respect this timetable and are managing to respect the constraints we set ourselves, notably on the weight of the aircraft. We are confident we will get there," Boeing CEO James McNerney told France's Le Monde ahead of the Paris airshow next week.

McNerney said he saw no reason for Boeing to review this production model until output had reached "cruising speed" around 2009. "(Then) we can ask whether we need to change or not our organization," he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1574422120070615

Just in case anyone still has doubts that everything is under control in Seattle.  

[Edited 2007-06-15 14:07:44]
 
keesje
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:08 pm

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
Just in case anyone still has doubts that everything is under control in Seattle.

This removes any doubt.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:15 pm

We should all remember that, to all reports, Section 43 mated fine with Section 44, which mated fine with Section 46, itself mating fine with Section 47 which itself mated fine with Section 48. The only known issue was mating Sections 41 and 43 and while it has been said the problem was with Section 43, it appears it was only with the forward part since if the entire barrel was "out of round", it should not have mated with Section 44, either.

So perhaps this really was just a case of Kawasaki not properly stuffing the front of the barrel and not an indication that Boeing's entire process is flawed and therefore Mr. McNerney's confidence may not be just hubris or "whistling past the graveyard"?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:16 pm

There are those who are waiting for Boeing to flub this project. One of whom I suspect is John Leahy.  Wink

I think it does Boeing good to make announcements of this nature to reassure customers who may be nervous after the A-380 problems.
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slz396
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:27 pm

It would be far more reassuring to hear confirmation the production of the subsequent planes will be according to plan as well, given the reports on just how intense the manual rework has been on the first plane. Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule... the time table for later models isn't likely having much margin for error left, so it would be good to have official confirmation and guarantees for Boeing they have the entire production process fully under control... So far there still seems to be a problem with quality assessment at some suppliers, or they should have spotted section 43 was way out of tolerances well before shipping it to the FAL.
 
BigSky123
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting Keesje (Reply 1):
Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
Just in case anyone still has doubts that everything is under control in Seattle.

This removes any doubt.

hehe, funny line, Keesje.  

By the way, i was being slightly sarcastic myself...  

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
I think it does Boeing good to make announcements of this nature to reassure customers who may be nervous after the A-380 problems.

Absolutely. I think airlines are a lot more cautios when ordering newly developed planes now after the difficulties Airbus had with the SuperJumbo.

[Edited 2007-06-15 14:30:51]
 
NYC777
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting BigSky123 (Reply 5):
Absolutely. I think airlines are a lot more cautios when ordering newly developed planes now after the difficulties Airbus had with the SuperJumbo.

Yeah they wold be nervous about ordering newly developed planes from Airbus but Boeing doesn't have that problem with their new development and it certainly hasn't held back the flood of orders for the 787.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:45 pm

I think Boeing will score a PR coup only when it DELIVERS a 787 to an airline. The 'roll-out' and 'first-flight' dates are totally meaningless if the delivery dates are missed. Exhibit A is Airbus. Indeed, the first flight of the A380 was a milestone, to be sure. But it receded into the background awfully fast once the whole program started to slip.

Chris in NH
 
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zeke
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 3):
I think it does Boeing good to make announcements of this nature to reassure customers who may be nervous after the A-380 problems.

 checkmark 

I agree, they have come out time and time again to say things are running on schedule and to spec whenever even an element of doubt gets raised in the press.

Wish them every success.
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aminobwana
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:16 pm

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
McNerney said he saw no reason for Boeing to review this production model until output had reached "cruising speed" around 2009. "(Then) we can ask whether we need to change or not our organization," he said.

In other words, this means that Boeing will increase the B787 production beginning 2009 to adapt itself to the order received, to ensure that delivery times will remain competitive with the ones of Airbus. "Cruising speed" means that initial production glitches are ironed out, therefore a production increase in the first year after EIS, as stated by several
A-netters, would be not a good idea !!

Quoting from the article:

Quote:
McNerney said, however, he expected Airbus to emerge stronger from its current problems, as it restructures to cope with a strong euro.
]"Airbus has its problems but we also had ours. I already see signs that their situation is improving," he was quoted as saying.

This is a nice touch to show that Boeing is not gloating !!

aminobwana
 
adh214
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
the time table for later models isn't likely having much margin for error left, so it would be good to have official confirmation and guarantees for Boeing they have the entire production process fully under control

Yes, I would also feel much more confident if Boeing's CEO announced there would never be a problem with the 787 production plan. However that is not reasonable. I doubt Boeing has a crystal ball that can tell them exactly where future problems will occur. At this point, it is a wait and see game. However, all of the speculation about the July 8th date can be put to rest for now.

Remember Boeing's CEO can be held criminally accountable for lying to the public and the shareholders. Thus, I doubt he would be making these statements unless he was very sure they were accurate at the time he made them. Certainly over the next few weeks things could change but that is true of any project from building airplanes to planning a wedding.

Andrew
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Adh214 (Reply 10):
However, all of the speculation about the July 8th date can be put to rest for now.

There was never any speculation about the date of the roll out. The rumours have been about the date of the first deliveries, next year.

But actually it looks good for Boeing.

Axel
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airfrnt
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
It would be far more reassuring to hear confirmation the production of the subsequent planes will be according to plan as well

What do you call this:?

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
McNerney said he saw no reason for Boeing to review this production model until output had reached "cruising speed" around 2009. "(Then) we can ask whether we need to change or not our organization," he said.

This is the original ramp up and production schedule. Boeing hasn't changed it. They also are on track for roll out. Since comparing the A380 and the 787 (because it happened to A380 and Airbus, it will happen to 787 and Boeing) iirc, the A380 was late compared to the plan three years earlier on roll out.

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule...

 Confused

Of course that's according to schedule, or it would not be happening on 7-8-07. Your making a lot of assumptions about Boeing's internal project plans, but the rollout and scheduled delivery are still occurring almost exactly when Boeing said they would. Boeing also says that they are on track to be running at full speed in 2009.

Of course you plan for unplanned for events. I run projects orders of magnitude smaller then the 787 effort, and I build in that same buffer time. And I've never not needed it.

You are trying awfully hard to find a dark storm cloud because of a silver lining.

What Boeing is trying is audacious and radical. So far all indications are that it is working, and working well. Does that mean they are in the clear?
 
thebry
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 9):
Quoting from the article:

Quote: McNerney said, however, he expected Airbus to emerge stronger from its current problems, as it restructures to cope with a strong euro.
]"Airbus has its problems but we also had ours. I already see signs that their situation is improving," he was quoted as saying.
This is a nice touch to show that Boeing is not gloating !!

Bingo. That part of the article underscores something I think is important -- Airbus and Boeing are a duopoly and both make fantastic aircraft. The difference between the management teams becomes clear when you read the history of Leahy comments vs. those of Boeing's leadership. Boeing's leadership frequently outclasses that of Airbus (very few [if any at all] snyde remarks or cheap shots about product).
 
Danny
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting BigSky123 (Thread starter):
PARIS (Reuters) - Boeing Co (BA.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is confident it can meet its goal to roll its first 787 "Dreamliner" jet off the production line on July 8, the U.S. plane maker's chief executive said in a newspaper interview published on Friday.

Nobody had any doubt that the roll out will take place as planned.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:11 am

Well Leahy is a marketer, so it's his job to disparage the competitor. The Two Randy's are equally guilty of doing it, they just don't do it quite as often.

The more senior executives within both Boeing and Airbus are much more consistent in "taking the high road" because they're not marketers and as such reporters and investors don't look to them to be calling attention to their competitor's failures, but instead remain focussed on ensuring that their own failures are discovered, corrected, and prevented going forward.
 
n844aa
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule...

So, in other words, it's, uh ... on schedule.
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:01 am

I know with all the grief heaped on the A380's delay, I can understand the desire to get some revenge on the 787 as she starts to encounter some issues, but it still strike me as premature to assume that she will not roll out on schedule or that she will be not take to the skies until late in 2007 based on what is leaking out or being officially acknowledged by Boeing.
 
bigjku
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
Sure, it will come in at schedule so it seems, but the way in which it was done definitely isn't according to schedule, so it only manages to be on schedule because their was margin for error planned into its schedule...

Like any major program, at least those run by people with brains for this type of planning, there was wiggle room. I can see this sort of junk being applied to the Apollo program. Well sure they landed on the moon in the timeframe set by Kennedy but it did not go perfectly according to plan but the plan built in time for problems and they still landed on time but really they didn't because they planned to have problems in their planning even though it might be considered a problem that they planned for problems as part of their long term problem solving planning process.

Simple right?
 
BR076
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 12):
Of course that's according to schedule, or it would not be happening on 7-8-07.

7 of August? I thought the roll out was supposed to be in July , so it's a delay after all an everything is ok again  Smile
ú
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:14 am

...no -it's 8 of July,since in the USA dates are written differently than in the rest of the World..
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Shenzhen
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:18 am

As the 787 program bottlenecks to first flight, we will know if the program was managed well or not. I hope Boeing did like they did with the 777 and ran all the airplane systems in the lab, together as one, before installing on the first airplane. This goes a long way in getting the first airplane ready for flight.

Cheers
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 21):
I hope Boeing did like they did with the 777 and ran all the airplane systems in the lab, together as one, before installing on the first airplane. This goes a long way in getting the first airplane ready for flight.

Boeing has indeed been performing extensive testing on an "iron bird" 787.
 
Ken777
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:22 am

Quoting BR076 (Reply 19):
7 of August? I thought the roll out was supposed to be in July , so it's a delay after all an everything is ok again  

Actually, by European dating the 787 roll-out will be a month early.  Smile
 
Devilfish
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:30 am

Per FI, Boeing is aiming for between late August and end September first flight.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ptember-for-787s-first-flight.html
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keesje
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:04 am

I think roll out & first flight of A380 went pretty well, the wiring issue came up later. Lets hope the 787 production ramp up goes smoothly.

"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 25):
I think roll out & first flight of A380 went pretty well, the wiring issue came up later. Lets hope the 787 production ramp up goes smoothly.

Quite true , however i dont think there would be any serious concerns when it comes to wiring with the 787 . The areas to watch out for would be Weight ,and fastners aswell as any supplier shortfalls .
 
BR076
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):
Actually, by European dating the 787 roll-out will be a month early.

nope , month later , but never mind at least you yanks drive on the right side of the road  Smile
ú
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:25 am

LOL, I think you Europeans are confused.

Using the American style of dates(month/day/year), rollout is set for 7/8/7 or July 8 2007

If we used the European style(day/month/year) 7/8/7 would be August 7 2007

So, if you were assuming that 7/8/7 meant August 7, and it rolled out on July 8, it would be 30 days early.
 
mham001
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Well Leahy is a marketer, so it's his job to disparage the competitor. The Two Randy's are equally guilty of doing it, they just don't do it quite as often.

The more senior executives within both Boeing and Airbus are much more consistent in "taking the high road" because they're not marketers and as such reporters and investors don't look to them to be calling attention to their competitor's failures, but instead remain focussed on ensuring that their own failures are discovered, corrected, and prevented going forward.

Now there's some PC spin. The two Randys "equally guilty, just not as often". Not exactly equal then are they? And while Baesler could be judged for displaying his side of the numbers, he never stooped as low as some of Leahys comments. If so, he would have had considerable more media exposure.

You must have some pretty deaf ears, I recall Foregard himself spouting some outrageous stuff, including cursing about something Boeing at an airshow news conference. Airbus schlock has gone all the way up to the top in the past. Seems to be toned down now however.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
We should all remember that, to all reports, Section 43 mated fine with Section 44, which mated fine with Section 46, itself mating fine with Section 47 which itself mated fine with Section 48.

I haven't seen much reported on section fit other than the dreaded S41/S43 mismatch case. Can you point me to some sources?
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 30):
I haven't seen much reported on section fit other than the dreaded S41/S43 mismatch case. Can you point me to some sources?

Well it appears that Sections 46 and 47 have yet to be joined, but as I understand it, Sections 44 and 46 are joined at Alenia prior to delivery, same with Sections 47 and 48 at Vought.

Open question - is Section 43 linked to Sections 44+46 at Alenia prior to delivery, or is it mated at PAE?
 
T773ER
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
Well Leahy is a marketer, so it's his job to disparage the competitor. The Two Randy's are equally guilty of doing it, they just don't do it quite as often.

The more senior executives within both Boeing and Airbus are much more consistent in "taking the high road" because they're not marketers and as such reporters and investors don't look to them to be calling attention to their competitor's failures, but instead remain focussed on ensuring that their own failures are discovered, corrected, and prevented going forward.


Isn't Leahy the COO of Airbus? I'm not sure, but most people consider a COO to be an executive.

[Edited 2007-06-15 22:04:34]
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keesje
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:15 am

What everybody wants to know but doesn´t dare to ask:

Is the 787 first flight silently being delayed from august to september?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
Is the 787 first flight silently being delayed from august to september?

Pretty obvious, isn't it?
 
osiris30
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
What everybody wants to know but doesn´t dare to ask:

Is the 787 first flight silently being delayed from august to september?



Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 34):
Pretty obvious, isn't it?

?? Pardon me, but hasn't the plan always been AS EARLY AS late August.. to some point in the future (a 1 month window would seem reasonable).

I'm not sure Boeing has ever comitted more than that.. yet everyone here takes the 'as early as' date and runs with it.. and now there's a "delay"???
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:28 am

The original plan was for late August.

Then it was late August - early September.

Now it is September - with Boeing on the record as saying a flight up until the end of September will still keep the project on schedule.
 
osiris30
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 36):
The original plan was for late August.

Then it was late August - early September.

Now it is September - with Boeing on the record as saying a flight up until the end of September will still keep the project on schedule.

According to today's FI article they are shooting late aug-end sept. Sounds like they are still shooting for late August, not sure where you got 'now it's September' from. Can you provide a source that definitely precludes an August first flight?
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
wolbo
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting Adh214 (Reply 10):
Remember Boeing's CEO can be held criminally accountable for lying to the public and the shareholders. Thus, I doubt he would be making these statements unless he was very sure they were accurate at the time he made them. Certainly over the next few weeks things could change but that is true of any project from building airplanes to planning a wedding.

That's probably why he is saying nothing solid in his statement. Basically all he says is he's 'confident' so if tomorrow the wings suddenly fall off and the CRFP fuselage mysteriously turns into hot chocolate he can still claim 'well, it's a bit of a (chocolate) mess but I only said I was confident'.  Wink
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
Is the 787 first flight silently being delayed from august to september?

A delay of only one week would move the date from August to September.

Question: what is the typical time from rollout to first flight? What was the interval for the 767 or 777?
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:52 am

The first 777-200 entered final body join on 15Dec 1993.

It rolled out on 9April 2004.

Most likely this was a "complete" aircraft as it would not have taken them 4 months to rivet and paint the fuse.

First flight was 12June 2004.

So, 6 months from final join to first flight. For the 777 program.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:56 am

As long as NH takes delivery of a good bird by May 2008, I'm okay and I am sure so is Boeing.  Smile
 
T773ER
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 40):
The first 777-200 entered final body join on 15Dec 1993.

It rolled out on 9April 2004.

I'm confused.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
brendows
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 39):
What was the interval for the 767

767-200 Rollout: 08/04/81 First flight 09/26/81 t

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 39):
777

777-200 Rollout: 04/09/94 First flight: 06/12/94
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 40):
So, 6 months from final join to first flight. For the 777 program.

This is not the 777. It's designed from day 1 as a different process.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:58 am

The term rollout does not mean anything, in the context of this conversation. We have no ideawhat condition the various 777 test planes were in when they rolled out. We do know that the 787 will be "bare."
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 44):
This is not the 777

An excellent observation!
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Brendows (Reply 43):
767-200 Rollout: 08/04/81 First flight 09/26/81
777-200 Rollout: 04/09/94 First flight: 06/12/94

Thanks! It appears that roughly two months from rollout to first flight is typical for Boeing. If the 787 follows the 777 experience, the first flight would be in mid-September and there's nothing unusual about it. checkmark 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
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ER757
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 4):
It would be far more reassuring to hear confirmation the production of the subsequent planes will be according to plan as well,

Exactly - when the 1st frame rolls out and makes its 1st flight are irrelevant when it comes to production schedules and delivery dates to airlines. I believe Boeing will get it right within reason (no more than a month or two late for 1st delivery) but it's by no means certain.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing CEO Confident On First 787 Timetable

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 46):
An excellent observation!

Well, you bring up the 777 to try to "prove" your claims, so I was only pointing out that the 787 was designed to be built differently from day one. Even though they had to stuff some parts in Everett out of plan, it's still a different process than the 777.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.