IAD787
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787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:09 am

Hello All,

Some serious progress going on in Everett over the last several days to tell you about.

- Horizontal stabilizer and tail cone are now joined and were moved into the final assembly area on June 13.
- Rudder has been joined to the vertical stabilizer and moved to the final assembly area on June 13.
- Engine pylon installation will be completed on June 15.
- Wing-Body join was confirmed as completed on June 15.
- Aft fuselage circumferential mating will be completed June 17.
- The joining of the horizontal stabilizer/tail cone to the aft fuselage will be completed by June 20.
- Vertical fin installation on the body of the aircraft will be completed by June 21.

Also, a little investigative work leads me to believe that the registration on LN0001 is going to be N787DL. 787 Registration: N787DL? (by IAD787 Jun 14 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Everything is on track for a trip to the paint shop on the 25th or 26th of June. 10 days to go!

Pictures, details and all kinds of good stuff are, as always, available at my site:

http://flightblogger.blogspot.com

Onward,

IAD787
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
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Stitch
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting IAD787 (Thread starter):
- Aft fuselage circumferential mating will be completed June 17.

Is this the mating of Sections 46 and 47?
 
keesje
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:15 am

No new high resolution photos, or am i missing them?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
siromega
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:18 am

June 17th? Working on fathers day (US) I see. Interesting. They really want to get this to paint on time.
 
IAD787
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 2):
No new high resolution photos, or am i missing them?

No new pictures specifically on this update. Sorry, should've been more clear about that. My fault.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Is this the mating of Sections 46 and 47?

Yep.
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:39 am

Any news on how much will remain undone inside by the June 25th paint shop date?

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
June 17th? Working on fathers day (US) I see. Interesting. They really want to get this to paint on time.

Only bachelors and women will be in that day.  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
NAV20
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:40 am

Many thanks, IAD787, VERY good information which is not available from any other source.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:00 am

Any news on how much will remain undone inside by the June 25th paint shop date?

Sure  Smile

Anything on the inside of the plane. No tubing, no wiring, no systems.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:17 am

Good progress though. How long will it take them to install the systems after the roll out?
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:20 am

According to everyone on this forum? 7 weeks.

According to the people I have spoken with? 12-24 weeks
 
NAV20
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
According to the people I have spoken with? 12-24 weeks

I really don't know why Boeing don't throw their hand in and switch Everett over to producing cheap washing-machines. It's quite obvious to those that know that they're not going to get that thing into the air before 2020 at the earliest......  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
It's quite obvious to those that know that they're not going to get that thing into the air before 2020 at the earliest......

Huh?
 
NAV20
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:41 am

Just meant that I'm morally certain that the 787 will be flying by early September and be delivered on schedule by May 2008, as promised, Clickhappy.
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
It's quite obvious to those that know that they're not going to get that thing into the air before 2020 at the earliest......

Oh I get it. Since you disagree with my message you decided to mock me. Makes perfect sense now.

If you disagree with my information, that is fine. If I am wrong I will have to deal with a lot of "told you so" type posts. That's fine. Of course, that is also a two-way street.

But, there really is no need to exaggerate ("into the air before 2020"). That's just lame.
 
Shenzhen
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
According to everyone on this forum? 7 weeks.

According to the people I have spoken with? 12-24 weeks

How long does it take for a 777 to move thru the factory, start to final?

I don't think installing the systems into/on the airplane as a potential problem, its getting power onto the airplane the first time, getting everything to work correctly, including the instrumentation for flight test.

Cheers
 
IAD787
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:29 am

Not sure of the time now, but I know Boeing wants to get it down to fewer than 10 days. Final assembly that is.
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:07 am

It takes 12-14 days to move a 777 down the line, including final join. Remember however, the 777 line is mature. A better way to look at it would be compare new models, but I don't have the data in front of me.

It took about 9 weeks (from memory) from rollout to first flight of the 777-300ER program, but the ER is a derivative.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:11 am

I found data on the 777 program.

The first 777-200 entered final body join on 15Dec 1993.

It rolled out on 9April 2004.

Most likely this was a "complete" aircraft as it would not have taken them 4 months to rivet and paint the fuse.

First flight was 12June 2004.

So, 6 months from final join to first flight. For the 777 program.
 
DAYflyer
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 9):
According to everyone on this forum? 7 weeks.

According to the people I have spoken with? 12-24 weeks

Thank you for the information. I appreciate your answer even if others here did not.
One Nation Under God
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:28 am

This link, from another thread, is interesting

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ptember-for-787s-first-flight.html

"We have until the end of September [to fly] and then we have to start looking at the flight-test window" to establish whether the May 2008 first delivery schedule to All Nippon Airways can be achieved, he says.

So, if it flys on 30September it wont change the EIS date, although that would be 3-5 weeks late.

If it doesn't fly until 31October, 7-9 weeks late, it would move EIS back by one month. And so on and so on.

A first flight in December would (so it appears) delay EIS by 3 months.

edit for typo

[Edited 2007-06-15 21:32:27]
 
Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:39 am

So what about the main landing gear? Wasn't that supposed to arrive at Everett April 3rd?
 
ilikeflight
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:09 am

Dose anybody know when the sections will arrive in PAE for numbers 2-6 to begin construction???
Think Different
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 21):
Dose anybody know when the sections will arrive in PAE for numbers 2-6 to begin construction???

Boeing expects a ship set from Vought around June 19-21. This will most likely be for the static test bird (non-flying).
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SJCRRPAX
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
I really don't know why Boeing don't throw their hand in and switch Everett over to producing cheap washing-machines. It's quite obvious to those that know that they're not going to get that thing into the air before 2020 at the earliest......

I don't think 6 months is really all that bad, considering the complexity of the project. I believe that Microsofts Vista OS was about 1 year behind their internal schedule, Apple has had plenty of late stuff. As an engineer I have been involved in some projects that were really late. Intel had an entire CPU that had to be redone because of overheating. How late is that V-22 project or doesn't that one count? If they come out with a great airplane that is only 6 months late, I'd say great job ---- two years might be stretching their luck though.
 
757Driver
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting IAD787 (Thread starter):
Also, a little investigative work leads me to believe that the registration on LN0001 is going to be N787DL.
787 Registration: N787DL?

The registration N787DL is for 787 Dream Liner.
 
hamster
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:07 pm

What we see now is just the frame. There will be no interior parts, or cable or anything for a while. I still think 2008 is optimistic for a delivery. Arnt there going to be problems that need to be ironed out? There are always issues when you are building a new product.
 
NAV20
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
But, there really is no need to exaggerate ("into the air before 2020"). That's just lame.

Meant as a joke, Clickhappy - obviously not a good one. Apologies, it was late at night and I’m afraid that I ‘saw red’ at your (unsupported) mention of 24 weeks.

7 weeks is almost certainly too short – I haven’t seen that mentioned anywhere. Boeing’s own forecast to first flight is currently ‘late summer,’ which I interpret as August/September; which corresponds to your figure of 12 weeks. That will allow (just enough) time for testing and certification before the planned delivery date of May 2008.

So, had you answered the original question by saying, ‘If all goes well, probably 12 weeks minimum,’ I would have agreed without comment.

But then you throw in ‘24 weeks,’ un-supported by any facts or evidence. That would mean a 3-month delay to both first flight and EIS – in other words, disaster for the programme.

It’s increasingly obvious that Boeing are working ‘on the edge of the possible,’ in terms both of technology and timescale. All the signs are that they’re succeeding, so far – but it’s a fascinating situation, anything could happen. On the matter of systems, for example, they’re not only working to a tight timescale, they’re pioneering bleedless technology. The latter could cut either way – pessimists would expect them to encounter insuperable snags, optimists would say that systems installation will turn out to be simpler and quicker - which is what they’ve been planning for.

So if there really are system installation issues arising which are expected to result in a 12-week delay, please provide details – we’d all be vitally interested, from our varying points of view. And apologies again for ‘snapping.’
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
ikramerica
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting Hamster (Reply 27):
Arnt there going to be problems that need to be ironed out? There are always issues when you are building a new product.

Which are factored into the schedule in the first place. Only extraordinary circumstances lead to any major project delays from a mature company who is under contract to complete by a certain time.

The A380 had certain extraordinary circumstances. So far, the 787 problems are "bad but ordinary" to any project.

Automobiles are routinely introduced according to a pre-ordained schedule 3-4 years in advance, and routinely meet that schedule within weeks.

MS Vista is not the same thing. They were under no contractual obligation (at least no major ones) to deliver it by any certain date, and generally software is more of a "done when it's done" profession than manufacturing.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
iwok
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:05 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
Oh I get it. Since you disagree with my message you decided to mock me. Makes perfect sense now

Click.. I think he was joking with you because he thought you were joking about the 12-24 weeks... Oh well, I guess it got lost in the translation.

BTW for all you 787 engineers out there. GET BACK TO WORK AND STOP READING THIS FORUM !!!!!!  Smile

-iwok
 
Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 28):
But then you throw in ‘24 weeks,’ un-supported by any facts or evidence. That would mean a 3-month delay to both first flight and EIS – in other words, disaster for the programme.

3 month 'late' wouldn't be anywhere near a desaster, IMO it would still be a colossal achievement in terms of management and engineering. I'm pretty sure even half a year wouldn't be a disaster for Boeing if the issues were properly communicated and credible guidance wais given on adjustments.

Anyway, what would disaster mean in this context? Boeing would loose credibility only in case they'd be caught hiding significant issues. They'd hardly loose predictability unless they'd repeatedly miss their own deadlines without prior warning. Given the strong performance of the other programs, they'd hardly loose financial stability. Profitability would take a dip, but probably wouldn't even get into the red.

Unless a real technical showstopper throws back the schedule for 12 month or more, the only risk I see is a very embarassing 'loss of face' and a transient dip in stock value, which would certainly be seen by many as an opportunity to buy 'cheap'. So let's take out the heat and just discuss the issues and non-issues.

BTW, thanks for the update, IAD787.
 
IAD787
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 21):
Dose anybody know when the sections will arrive in PAE for numbers 2-6 to begin construction???

Your tracked aircraft BOE632 has just filed a flight plan. It is scheduled to depart KPAE (Snohomish Co) at 09:00AM PDT heading for KCHS Charleston AFB Int'l for an arrival at 04:27PM EDT.

Expected route: SEA J70 MLP J36 HILGR J204 DPR J16 FSD J45 PLESS Q19 BNA J46 VXV J99 IRQ J4 CAE J47 CHS

Any idea what it's picking up?
Former FlightBlogger turned Wall Street Journal Aerospace Beat Reporter
 
NAV20
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sat Jun 16, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 30):
Any idea what it's picking up?

IAD787, as far as I know Boeing's adventurous strategy includes building about 30 more 787s DURING the final development stage (i.e. assembly, first flight, testing, etc.) to give themselves a flying start on first-year (2008) deliveries. Therefore we can expect a regular and increasing flow of all components into Everett from now on.

[Edited 2007-06-16 16:31:23]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
HanginOut
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 17):
The first 777-200 entered final body join on 15Dec 1993.

It rolled out on 9April 2004.

Most likely this was a "complete" aircraft as it would not have taken them 4 months to rivet and paint the fuse.

Clickhappy, is the year 1993 a typo or am I misreading your post?
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
474218
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 26):
But then you throw in '24 weeks,' un-supported by any facts or evidence. That would mean a 3-month delay to both first flight and EIS -- in other words, disaster for the programme.

How many weeks are there in a month? 3-months is 12 weeks. 24 weeks, would be 5 1/2 months.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:54 am

It was a typo. 2004 should be 1994.
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 29):

3 month 'late' wouldn't be anywhere near a desaster, IMO it would still be a colossal achievement in terms of management and engineering.

 checkmark  And the true sign of success is not an on-time first flight or EIS, but a successful industrial ramp-up that achieves 112 deliveries by the end of 2009. That's where the money comes in and that's what the investors care about.

Quoting IAD787 (Reply 30):
Any idea what it's picking up?

Possibly the second center fuselage. The second 43/45 shipset arrived in KCHS on 14 April. The second 44/46 shipset arrived in KCHS on 18 May.
 
tazzrassinIDA
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:15 am

I for one really appreciate these detailed, easy to understand, and organized updates. It will be a great thing to finally see this bird in the air!
Tazz
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:19 am

A little bit more information:

The Trent 1000's are in the house.
One of the main landing gear trucks is on the factory floor (little elves must have hidden the other one).
The left engine strut is on the wing and installation is proceeding; no right strut installation yet.
The horizontal stab and tail cone are on the airplane.
The elevators have arrived.
The vertical tail is still on the floor.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:51 am

Both MLG are on the floor, both engines struts are on and the tail fin (vertical stab) is on and being bolted down on the fuselage today.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Clydenairways
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:38 pm

Can somebody post some latest photos. That Blogspot site is blocked here at work.
 
NAV20
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:49 pm

Just checked it, Clydenairways, you're not missing out, nothing new since the ones of the wing being offered up. I'd be surprised if Boeing let any more pictures leak out until rollout on 7/8/07, in the interests of 'maximising impact.'

After that we'll no doubt be drowning in 'em!  Smile
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
DAYflyer
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 37):
A little bit more information:

The Trent 1000's are in the house.
One of the main landing gear trucks is on the factory floor (little elves must have hidden the other one).
The left engine strut is on the wing and installation is proceeding; no right strut installation yet.
The horizontal stab and tail cone are on the airplane.
The elevators have arrived.
The vertical tail is still on the floor.

And Elvis has left the building......

Seriously, thanks for all the superb updates. I just wish we had some new photos....
One Nation Under God
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 41):
I just wish we had some new photos....

Me too. I was hopin that Mike Bair would have released a few during his 787 update today in PAris but I can't find anything.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
JD747
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:44 pm

I don't know if it's been posted before, but there are new pitures of the 787

http://boeingmedia.com/imageRelease.cfm

Regards

[Edited 2007-06-19 16:47:34]
Juan D.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:48 pm

Great find, Thanks for the link, those are great pics. Also notice the image of the 787-10. It seems to me that they're still serious about it.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:51 pm

Did anyone read this about the 787-10:

"LE BOURGET, France, June 19, 2007-- In addition to working on the near-term milestones associated with producing the first 787 Dreamliner, Boeing is already looking ahead to the future family members of the 787 line. The 787-10 a second stretch of the twinjet will debut in 2013. Boeing is working with airlines to determine the exact configuration and capabilities of the new jet, which will be the fourth member of the 787 family, joining the baseline 787-8 which enters revenue service in 2008, and a version optimized for shorter ranges known as the 787-3 and the first stretch that has been designated the 787-9 both of these family members will enter service in 2010.

http://boeingmedia.com/imageDetail.cfm?id=14919&clr=release
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
NYC777
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:12 am

There are some great pics of the 787 in this presentation from Mike Bair today:

http://www.boeing.com/news/feature/paris07/assets/071906_bair_pas.pdf
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:50 am

There's one design change that Boeing is yet to explain:
Looks like the concept of having windows were the splices are between barrels S41 & S43 and S46 & S47 didn't pan out. The demonstrator barrels had them, but now they are gone, leaving prominent gaps in the window belt. You can clearly notice this with the 787-9 and 787-10 renditions in Mike Bair's presentation

Big version: Width: 887 Height: 289 File size: 62kb


Have posted this a few times before, am I the only one to note this?
 
optionscle
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 47):
Looks like the concept of having windows were the splices are between barrels S41 & S43 and S46 & S47 didn't pan out. The demonstrator barrels had them, but now they are gone, leaving prominent gaps in the window belt. You can clearly notice this with the 787-9 and 787-10 renditions in Mike Bair's presentation

Here at CO we have 787-8 models around. All of them have a missing window about 5-10 from the back as shown in that photo. No missing window up front, to my knowledge.
 
Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Assembly Update (Detailed) - Part IV

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting OptionsCLE (Reply 48):
Here at CO we have 787-8 models around. All of them have a missing window about 5-10 from the back as shown in that photo. No missing window up front, to my knowledge.

That's because with the 787-8, the splice is immediately in front of door 2.

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