747orDie
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 1:10 am

Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Mon Aug 07, 2000 10:35 pm

Last night 60 minutes re-ran a story about "echilon", a high tech spy network that can capture just about any communication transmission worldwide. They alleged that Boeing "may" have received sensitive proposal information via the network that was intended to go from airbus to Saudi Airlines. Apparently, they theorized that the American Gov't wants their corporations to beat foreign corporations, and so they forwarded the Airbus deal numbers to Boeing execs, allowing them to customize the perfect offer!!

Does any one have any REAL information about this? And, if it is true, what should be done?

Viva la 747!
 
sndp
Posts: 534
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 6:07 pm

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Mon Aug 07, 2000 10:52 pm

I would recommend not to make big conclusions out of this news, as we do not know whether it is really true. If it is, however, this is again a sign that, although we think the USA are the father and the biggest defenders of the free economy, they are actually only 'free' when it is good for them. Read Flight International from last week, saying that Washington is asking companies not to participate in the A3XX programme; remember them arguing about Airbus receiving money, giving money to Boeing themselve; remember a member of Congress asking to stop giving airlines buying Airbusses new slots at slot restricted airports; .... I can give examples enough. It is time we realize America is not a defender of the free economy in the world, but only when they can make profit out of it. I really hope this news is false. If it isn't, I would, again, be very dissapointed.
sndp
 
oxygen
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 1999 12:27 am

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Mon Aug 07, 2000 11:07 pm

USA was not a big defender of free economy. If you look up in economics books, most chart will show that in terms of 'freedom of economy', USA is only about in the middle, while the least free is North Korea, and the most free is Hong Kong.
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Mon Aug 07, 2000 11:59 pm

All companies spy on their competition to some degree or another, either in house or using experts in the field, and I am sure that both Boeing and Airbus are not exempt here. The real ethical questions arise when people steal intellectual property (e.g., through patent infringement) or otherwise engage in deceptive (and sometimes illegal) practices. I doubt there is any reliable information available to the public to determine whether Boeing (or Airbus) is guilty of such activity; as such, one would do best by presuming innocents unless guilt has been established in a recognized court of law.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Navion
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Funny You Should Say CBS 60 Minutes

Tue Aug 08, 2000 12:17 am

Just 3 years ago 60 Minutes ran a story about European industrial espionage, with the French being the most involved. It included massive aerospace espionage as well as all of the published aeronautical information by NASA which is available to everyone in the world (such as airfoil design etc.). My my, what's old is new again.
 
widebody
Posts: 1107
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2000 5:08 pm

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Tue Aug 08, 2000 12:22 am

.....apparently it's written into the constitution of the FAA that they protect and aid the development of American companies, and this has been suggested as the reason why they are so reluctant to act on NTSB recommendations regarding Boeing problems......
 
cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Tue Aug 08, 2000 3:49 am

I agree with Fanofjets. All corperations spy on eachother. They have inside people, and some of them are even double spies. This spy technology seems more like a rumor.
 
IndianGuy
Posts: 3126
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2000 3:14 pm

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Wed Aug 09, 2000 1:52 am

Well, it is well known that the US maintains an 'economic-intelligence' wing, which specializes in these kind of dirty games. Apparently, wing technology developed by airbus, has ended up on the 777, couretsy a lot of help from this particular intelligence wing.

And we hear Americans accusing Europeans, Chinese and Indians of 'stealing' their nuclear, missile and aircraft technology! HA!

Who would want to steal from thieves?
 
Navion
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Indian Guy

Wed Aug 09, 2000 3:35 am

Indian Guy, you obviously have an axe to grind with the U.S. Your last sentence "who would want to steal from thieves" is funny. I guess you think that not only does America not come up with the most advanced technology year in and year out, but they in fact have almost none!!! How else can that be construed?! Also, to imply the "discarded Airbus technology" has shown up on the 777 is a joke. Come on, stop embarassing yourself.
 
avion
Posts: 2126
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:28 am

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:38 am

Currently european investigators are looking at the Saudi Arabian and other issued. If they find a proof that the Us uses the echelon center for industrial espionage and not for espionage of eastern european countries Germany will revoke the licence for it! \

Several Eu firms haved filed complaints.


Avion
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:44 am

A little off-topic, but isn't/wasn't the Echelon system also used to spy on telephone calls and e-mails from individuals? Or was that another system? From 60 Minutes I also heard that several European governments have begun using encryption to get around this spy system; has it been working?

Tupolev154B2
 
777X
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:44 am

RE: Boeing Uses Spy Technology To Beat Airbus?

Wed Aug 09, 2000 5:05 am

Note that the french also have a similar spy network, and they have been counter accused of doing the same thing

All politics and hot air if you ask me

Regards
777x

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