xbraniffone
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Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:04 am

From the Mpls Star Tribune.

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1249542.html


"Leaders of the Northwest Airlines pilots union gave the airline's executives a vote of "no confidence" on Friday and plan to carry that message directly to the company's board of directors....."

Specifically, the pilots criticized top management for creating a pilot staffing shortage this summer, which they contend will lead to canceled flights or other schedule disruptions. "The net impact of management's decisions will be a loss of passenger goodwill and a loss of revenue," the pilots said in their resolution.

NWA needs to get rid of Steenland. This company can not continue to compete in this cut throat market with such inner company turmoil. No matter what one thinks of Steenland and his ability, he should step down as leader of the company. NWA needs to mend itself and focus on competing in the market. Managment and labor need to work together. They will never be able to do this with Steenland. He should go, for the sake of the company.

I think employees must hate Steenland so much they may be in favor of a merger just to get rid of him.

We'll see.
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SANFan
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:14 am

I'm not a pilot but you can sure add my vote to that count...

bb
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:02 am

What would the pilots do differently?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AirRyan
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:08 am

I used to work at NW and now work for WN - Steenland and his cronies were a big reason why I left - you want to talk about the best airline CEO's in the US, it's amazing how much better GK is than Steenland on so many levels yet is compensated at a fraction that of any other US airline CEO.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:21 am

I cannot believe in the last 5-7 years that NWA has been draining itself down the tubes. I am shocked and dismayed how the execs have handled this situation. They need to go and let others step in and take over. I remember flying on them in 1998/1999 as a non-rev and was completely impressed (LOVED the D10!!!!) with everything they had to offer. The employees looked happy to be there.

NWA needs Bethune to come in and take over, turn it around. That will save NWA's face! But thats just me.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
Floris
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:29 pm

Is this "Steenland" and his team the same management that brilliantly outsmarted the striking mechanics? If so, they have my full support. Most of the time, when employees are whining, management is doing something that is best for the company in the long run anyway.
 
MattMSP767
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:54 pm

Bottom line:

If the pilots are that unhappy with the way the company is being run, then they should quit and go work for an airline in which they believe they will be happy with. If it's about money and jobs, then they shouldn't complain as they and all the other union groups have approved their contracts that they are currently working under.

You cannot shoot yourself in the foot and blame someone else.
 
0newair0
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:05 pm

I saw that one coming. Just about everyone in the company has a problem with Doug since he took that $26 mil; however, the problem isn't necessarily Doug himself. One problem is that the airline is being run by accountants and not flight operations. To an accountant you can add planes/flights/people in a matter of seconds with a few clicks of the mouse. In actuality it takes months (6 or more) for a fleet to ramp up (training and operations wise) and thats for an established fleet. For the 787 the ramp up time should be even longer.....
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
MattMSP767
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 7):
the 787 the ramp up time should be even longer

Why do you say that? Why would it be longer than any other NW widebody?
 
0newair0
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:42 pm

When I was refering to "longer" I ment refering to a longer ramp up time than an established fleet. So, I was meaning that it would take NWA longer than 6 months to fully prepare for 787's arrival.
"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
 
davescj
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:29 pm

hmmmm....the Pilots don't like NW mgmt, we know that mechanics have had LONG time issues with it......not sure about FA's, but customers aren't too happy either.....think the Board of NWA might get the message and no confidence him out?
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
N801NW
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting Davescj (Reply 10):
.think the Board of NWA might get the message and no confidence him out?

Let's look at this from the view of the BoD. The creditors of the pre-bankruptcy NWA are now the shareholders of the "new" NWA. The board basically represents those shareholders and they did pretty well considering that the company was possibly on the verge of liquidation in the Fall of 2005. Secured creditors ended up being paid in full (100%) and unsecured creditors should receive 70-80% back. Most Ch. 11 cases result in pennies on the dollar being paid back. Personality vices or vitrues aside, you can say Doug Steenland has done pretty well for the BoD of NWA.
 
davescj
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:28 pm

Quoting N801NW (Reply 11):
you can say Doug Steenland has done pretty well for the BoD of NWA.

This is a true statement.
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
xbraniffone
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting N801NW (Reply 11):
Personality vices or vitrues aside, you can say Doug Steenland has done pretty well for the BoD of NWA.

I agree from the BOD point of view. However the current atmoshphere in NWA can not sustain business and customers will eventually start going to competitors because they will get tired of the bad attitude of the employees. That's it. Gone is the "support the home town business." So, the argument would be, "if the employees don't like it, they can leave." But that's old school thinking. A business has to have a fairly content employee base to be a good company espeically a business that counts on good customer service. You can not compete in this cut throat market and have the employee base very very unhappy. That's the reality. The only reason the MSP and DET popuplation support NWA is because of FF miles. Time will take it's toll, customers will go to competitors and then shareholders will moan and complain and the BOD will moan and complain about market share loss and I for one will say, "I told you so."

It's not about "if Steenland did a good job or not," it's about the company remaining viable in the marketplace. You can not remain a viable company with such a fractured structure. It doesn't work that way anymore.
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Flighty
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:02 am

He's just not a folksy guy that anybody likes. Maybe he is very smart. The BK went fine. Overcoming the mechanic's strike took balls of steel, just a legendary performance, stunning. But the employees are weary of him. Why not bring in someone new, what harm would it bring?
 
bobnwa
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
He's just not a folksy guy that anybody likes. Maybe he is very smart. The BK went fine. Overcoming the mechanic's strike took balls of steel, just a legendary performance, stunning. But the employees are weary of him. Why not bring in someone new, what harm would it bring?

The trouble is that it is up to the BOD to bring in someone new and the BOD thinks he did a great job with the bankruptcy. I also agree that NWA needs new top leadership to get the company going in the right direction. All the pieces are in place to have a great company.

That being said, one also has to realize that what the pilots want is not necesarily the best thing for the company. The NWA pilots (or any other airlines pilots) will not be happy until they are making the highest pilot wages in the industy. It is the aim of ALPA to keep raising the bar as each airline contract becomes due. When the pilots had a say in running UA not so long ago they nearly drove it into the ground.
 
LMP737
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting N801NW (Reply 11):
Personality vices or vitrues aside, you can say Doug Steenland has done pretty well for the BoD of NWA.

People seem to think that just because a company manages to exit Chapter 11 everything is good to go. Well as Gordon Bethune said BK fixes your balance sheet, not your company.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:07 am

I don't know about you but all the NWA employees I've experienced have been great, they're bringing me back to NWA not pushing me away. If anything they're the nicest employees that I've experienced in this business. ( Except maybe Midwest. )

Steenland did an excellent job in BK and I see the new NWA turning around, what sources do you have to show that it's going down the tubes / " STILL barely hanging on " Last I heard their load factor was the highest in the industry and they were making money.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
LMP737
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 5):
Most of the time, when employees are whining, management is doing something that is best for the company in the long run anyway.

Maybe you should talk to AirRyan. No one is going to accuse him of being a disgruntled union employee.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:54 am

Quoting Xbraniffone (Thread starter):
I think employees must hate Steenland so much they may be in favor of a merger just to get rid of him.

That may end up happening. I've heard as much from not just a few NW employees.
 
n710ps
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting NorthwestEWR (Reply 18):

Every crew memeber I come across, every time I go over to them to get a jumpseat or anything else for that matter. I talk to the employees. I am in the industry and I experinced what an airline in bankruptcy is like in not one case but two cases. Seenland treats his employees like dog shit in the mud. You can only kick a dog soo many times before that dog will bit back and it is not over yet. I can tell you that with certainty. Oh and lets not forget the shams in that airlines regional departments as well.
There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
 
aviatortj
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting Xbraniffone (Reply 13):
However the current atmoshphere in NWA can not sustain business and customers will eventually start going to competitors because they will get tired of the bad attitude of the employees.

Since when do customers buy tickets based on experience? As long as NWA has the lowest price (and that price remains profitable) the planes will fill themselves. Ousting the CEO won't change the face of the company overnight.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 15):
The trouble is that it is up to the BOD to bring in someone new and the BOD thinks he did a great job with the bankruptcy.

I agree and understand your point there, but traditionally, there have been different people for different times. The board of directors should probably consider that while Steenland may have been the man for the job of handling their difficult bankruptcy, it's time for the mending to begin, and he absolutely may not be the man for that job.
Good goes around!
 
lincoln
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:31 am

Quoting Xbraniffone (Reply 13):
and customers will eventually start going to competitors because

Does NW Really Hate Their Customers This Much? (by Lincoln Jun 16 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Says pretty much all I have to say on the subject of 'good will' and customers.

As an aside, I was somewhat discomforted by the lack of familiarity with the aircraft the cabin crew had on my last DTW-CLE flight -- "Anyone know where the oxygen masks are?" (for the safety demo) "Oh, so that's where they put our lunch on these planes" -- "So, which seat am I suposed to sit in?" "Are we suposed to bring the carts out for the service?" "Do you remember how many exits there are?" -- the crew was completely professional, and very appologetic I just found it odd that they weren't more famailiar with the configuration of the aircraft
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bobnwa
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 24):
As an aside, I was somewhat discomforted by the lack of familiarity with the aircraft the cabin crew had on my last DTW-CLE flight

Were you on a NWA, Mesaba or Pinnacle flight?
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:04 am

Just looking at this thread from afar, its rather fascinating to see the real diversity of views on A.net. We have those more sympathetic to management and those more sympathetic to the unions. I say, a pox on both their houses:

Unions, (particularly the pilot's union), need to realize that the days of senior flight attendants making nearly 6 figures with bonuses are over and the days of 747 captains making $300 grand are also over. Finished. Done. Never coming back. Get over it or get a new career.

Likewise, Steenland should have been smart enough to realize that taking $26 million in compensation (even if some is at risk) so immediatly after exiting bankruptcy was going to significantly depress already very low employee morale. Its like kicking an ant hill at this point.

There needs to be some happy medium here and NW needs to find it.
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:45 am

Has anyone one else besides me "had their fill" of non-stop meaningless empty bluster from NWA's pilots? While I fully concur with their 'no confidence' in NWA execs vote, perhaps there should be a 'no credibility' vote taken on the pilots for never ceasing to talk-the-talk while spinelessly acquiescing to management's demands whenever the time comes to walk-the-walk. With all due respect to the many fine pilots of NWA, were such a vote in NWA's pilots -- more properly, perhaps, their union -- be taken, I would be the first to "vote early and vote often" on the 'no credibility' side of the ballot.

Quoting Xbraniffone (Thread starter):
"The net impact of management's decisions will be a loss of passenger goodwill and a loss of revenue," the pilots said in their resolution.

As to the loss of passenger goodwill...... so what? First, it sounds like NW has little pax goodwill to lose and, even more to the point, NWA is among the most successful metaphorical drug dealers among the U.S. legacies in creating addicts whose "loyalty" can easily be bought with cheap pack-the-plane loss-leader fares and frequent flyer freeloader (FFF) giveaways, when needed to buy customer "goodwill." Any loss of revenue, therefore, will not be on account of losing sheer numbers of customers or reduced load factors but rather in the less tangible form of reduced revenue per available seat mile from feeling compelled to throw cheap below-cost loss-leader fares at customers in the interest of buying their "goodwill."
 
lincoln
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 25):
Were you on a NWA, Mesaba or Pinnacle flight?

Mainline NWA -- DC-9-50
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
burnsie28
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 6):
If the pilots are that unhappy with the way the company is being run, then they should quit and go work for an airline in which they believe they will be happy with

Yes because that makes sense, go back to no seniority little pay and starting from the beginning and where would they go. UA pilots are pissed, US pilots are pissed, DL doesn't have many slots. CO again doesn't have many slots. With nearly 7,000 NW pilots. Where are they going to all go?
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 29):
Yes because that makes sense, go back to no seniority little pay and starting from the beginning and where would they go.

That's the problem, is that a lot of people on here just don't get it that if you leave your company as a pilot, you start at the bottom of everything at a new company. Bottom of seniority list, bottom of the pay scale, first one to get furloughed if the industry nose-dives again. This doesn't work like a lot of other businesses.
Good goes around!
 
N908AW
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:16 am

Quoting Floris (Reply 5):
Is this "Steenland" and his team the same management that brilliantly outsmarted the striking mechanics? If so, they have my full support.

If by brilliantly, you mean that the fact they knew they were trying to pay the mechanics crappy wages, so they decided to let them eat themselves out of their own jobs and hire scab mechanics that destroyed what was arguably one of the better quality mechanic systems in the industry, just so they could have a little more money in their own pockets, as a brilliant idea...

But executives have to eat too, I suppose...
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
 
N231YE
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:12 am

Unfortunately, I have read that NW management has had a history of being at odds with their labor. Steenland did nothing to improve this. Maybe Steenland's "watered-down Lorenzo-nomics" may have worked at cutting costs, but he sure did anger many employees.

However, I also agree that the unions, besides management, must work together as teams and get out of greed-induced "fantasy land."

Bethune figured this out, making CO "From Worst to First," by turning around an airline to profitability, high customer satisfaction, and happy employees, as mentioned above in other posts.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 29):
Where are they going to all go?

China. They can sign a 1yr agreement.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 30):
That's the problem, is that a lot of people on here just don't get it that if you leave your company as a pilot, you start at the bottom of everything at a new company. Bottom of seniority list, bottom of the pay scale, first one to get furloughed if the industry nose-dives again. This doesn't work like a lot of other businesses.

Welcome to working in an occupation that's entirely controlled by the unions. Hope you enjoyed paying your dues last month.
 
WJ
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:31 pm

I have to say, this comes as a complete shock. Who would have figured that NW workgroups would ever be at odds with management??? They seem like such an organized airline.

P.S. I have been in a coma for the past 5 years.
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KingAir200
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 33):
China. They can sign a 1yr agreement.

Something tells me that many pilots with families aren't going to go fly in China for a year. Even if they did live here and fly in China, the commute would be a pain. Sure, some have gone to Emirates and other foreign carriers, but I'd have to think a lot of pilots just don't want to deal with it. As said above, a hop to another airline yields more training and a spot at the bottom of the seniority list. It may have made sense in the 80s when pilots jumped from Eastern and Braniff to other carriers, but now, with the way the industry is, and the relatively old age of the NWA pilot group, why quit at NWA just to go back to where you started? Other non-aviation jobs also seem somewhat out of the question; there are few employers who are looking for prospective employees with aeronautical studies degrees. I guess you could somehow get lucky with your own business or take a job that pays in the same range and doesn't require a specific college degree, but opportunities such as these seem to be few and far between.
 
3201
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 24):
"Are we suposed to bring the carts out for the service?"

There's cabin service on a DTW-CLE flight? I mean, I know every European carrier on an RJ would have a seven-course meal with real metal knives, fine china, and three each red and white wine choices, but man that's a short flight, I would definitely do "no service" on that one.

[Edited 2007-06-18 08:23:30]
7 hours aint long-haul
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 34):
Welcome to working in an occupation that's entirely controlled by the unions. Hope you enjoyed paying your dues last month.

Whoa, watch your assumptions there, buddy. I don't work in the airline industry at the moment. I work retail, and I'm non-union. No dues.
Good goes around!
 
xbraniffone
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting AviatorTJ (Reply 22):

Check the prices. NWA rarely has the lowest prices. RARELY
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bobnwa
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:40 pm

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 30):
That's the problem, is that a lot of people on here just don't get it that if you leave your company as a pilot, you start at the bottom of everything at a new company. Bottom of seniority list, bottom of the pay scale, first one to get furloughed if the industry nose-dives again. This doesn't work like a lot of other businesses.

Aren't the seniority rules when changing airlines set by ALPA which is 100% controlled by pilots. If they have to start at the bottom, they are the ones who made the rules, not the airlines.
 
lincoln
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting 3201 (Reply 37):
There's cabin service on a DTW-CLE flight? I

I was kind of suprised -- and every time I do CLE-DTW or DTW-CLE the level of service is different, but in First there's a full beverage service (where you may or may not get real glassware and about 1/2 the time get pretzels/nuts) --- I think Economy gets a choice of orange juice or water.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting Tango-Bravo (Reply 26):
Has anyone one else besides me "had their fill" of non-stop meaningless empty bluster from NWA's pilots?

Pilots in general Silly I'd just like to hear what their solution is, and I never seem to get an answer.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 23):
As an aside, I was somewhat discomforted by the lack of familiarity with the aircraft the cabin crew had on my last DTW-CLE flight --

That's because they're most-likley new-hire FA's. It is common for new hires to be unfamiliar with the where service related items are, jumpseat position etc. Since 80 percent of job experiance is acquired through OJT, we all came out of training lost when we started our first trip online. You're going to find that anywhere you go, at any airline. Our training consists of mock-ups, and real-time experiance on aircraft is limited during the 6 weeks of initial training, especialy during the summer when load factors prevent many of them from going out at all until they do their IOE to AMS, LGW or CDG at the end of IT. When I started 10 years ago, I was clueless where stuff was whether it was on a DC9, 727, DC10 or 747. By the end of my first trip on each fleet-type, I knew where everything was and I was a pro(almost).
But look at this way, would you rather have someone fresh out of training with a positive attitude, neat personal appaerance who has their emergency procedures fresh in their mind(after 6 full weeks of it being engrained in their heads, under duress mind you), or would you like to have someone who has been doing this for a long time, fresh from a bitter past 5 years, ontop of 30+ years of resentment of this company, possibly complacent(we have many, many senior FA's that still take tremendous pride in their work)? Personally, I would rather have the new-hires with me. Psychology works a little different here in the airlines.
Made from jets!
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Xbraniffone (Thread starter):
"Leaders of the Northwest Airlines pilots union gave the airline's executives a vote of "no confidence" on Friday and plan to carry that message directly to the company's board of directors....."

Well I am sure the sword in this case runs both ways.

Quoting Floris (Reply 5):
Is this "Steenland" and his team the same management that brilliantly outsmarted the striking mechanics?

Steenland brought NWA out of bankruptcy. His management team saved an airline that could have died if the unions had their way..

Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 6):
If the pilots are that unhappy with the way the company is being run, then they should quit and go work for an airline in which they believe they will be happy with.

100% Agreed.. Take it or leave it..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
catdaddy63
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:27 am

RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:20 am

This is nothing more than posturing before contract negotiations start, and unfortunately status quo. This round of talks between the lagacies and the unions will be really interesting to watch! Pension and retirement benefits will be as much an issue as pay, and health care costs. The unions IMO know better than to strike, even a rolling slowdown will cause huge harm to the airline and the pilots own futures. There aren't enough openings around to swallow an entire companies pilot base if they manage to shut down an airline.
 
Tango-Bravo
Posts: 2887
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting Catdaddy63 (Reply 44):
There aren't enough openings around to swallow an entire companies pilot base if they manage to shut down an airline.

There will be plenty of "openings around" within a short time if the pilots of any U.S. legacy shut down their airline long term or permanantly. Unfortunately, pilots of the legacies -- or at least the unions who represent them -- have "postured" themselves into a position where one (or more) of the U.S. legacies needs to be shut down and, hopefully, put out of business altogether if management balks and drags their feet in meeting union demands for restitution of what has been taken away from the pilots they represent. If the unions and their pilots expect to have their credibility restored, someone will need to be first to walk-the-walk rather than merely continuing their habit of endless talk-the-talk bluster and blather that management need not take seriously.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:24 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 39):
Aren't the seniority rules when changing airlines set by ALPA which is 100% controlled by pilots.

That would be a fair assessment if ALPA were the only pilots' union, but they are FAR from it.
Good goes around!
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:30 am

Quoting Floridaflyboy (Reply 46):
That would be a fair assessment if ALPA were the only pilots' union, but they are FAR from it.



In the US what % of pilots belong to ALPA, APA, or the Jet Blue or Southwest unions (not sure what they are called)? My point is that the unions control seniority not the airlines, and those unions are 100% pilots. They are the ones preventing a pilot from changing airlines and keeping his seniority.
 
floridaflyboy
Posts: 1500
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:26 pm

RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 47):
In the US what % of pilots belong to ALPA, APA, or the Jet Blue or Southwest unions (not sure what they are called)? My point is that the unions control seniority not the airlines, and those unions are 100% pilots. They are the ones preventing a pilot from changing airlines and keeping his seniority.

First off, jetBlue has no unions at all. Second of all, each individual pilot group has its own branch of their respective union (i.e. NW ALPA, DL ALPA, etc.) and each one is responsible for the best interest of ITS OWN membership. So, it would go against that committment to allow some 25 year senior captain at NW to walk into the 777 captain position at DL. The seniority issue is to protect a union's own membership. Although several companies are represented by ALPA, their unions are all seperate in a number of ways.
Good goes around!
 
N908AW
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:05 pm

RE: Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Catdaddy63 (Reply 44):
This is nothing more than posturing before contract negotiations start, and unfortunately status quo.

Well, it is what it is, and it stands to reason that hey, maybe the pilots don't like management?

However, I would agree with you that this means little. I haven't had confidence in NW management for quite some time.
'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!