skyhigh
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:37 pm

Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:03 am

I am currently looking for a very cheap way of getting from Japan (Tokyo, Osaka or Nagoya preferably) to Shanghai, or vice versa. I might not have done my research well enough but I can't seem to think of any names when it comes to Low Cost Carriers in Japan.
Is it due to the cost of Labour in Japan, or something to do with the Unions? Is it because the JAL and ANA would easily bankrupt any new starters?
Air travel in the Japanese domestic market is HUGE, I would have thought that someone would have tried.

Thanks
Luke

[Edited 2007-06-18 04:10:59]
 
reality
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:01 pm

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:22 am

Great question. I'm waiting for the answer too.

.

.
 
detroitflyer
Posts: 367
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:26 am

there are plenty of small name carriers in that area (that i am only GUESSING) are LCC's. Examples Starflyer, hong kong express, xiamen

maybe you can book on these unless you go directly to their site.
There is high labor costs in Europe and the USA, and that is where most of the LCC's started and are based. So i dont think labor has too much to do with it.
Boiler Up!!!
 
cinja
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:55 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:07 pm

There are 4 LCC's in the domestic market (Skymark, Skynet Asia, Air Do, Starflyer). They don't offer ridiculously cheap fares that you might see in Europe, but there are substantial savings over JAL and ANA. For example, flying tomorrow (June 19) from HND-CTS around 1 pm would be 15,500 yen on Skymark, 16,000 yen on Air Do, 26,800 yen on JAL or ANA.

However, we do not have any LCC's flying internationally. I would guess that high landing fees at NRT might have something to do with this, but as travel in Asia increases I would expect at least one LCC to try to move on to the international market, particularly China. I don't believe unions have anything to do with this, it's possible the government is preventing it to help JAL and ANA, but I have no evidence to back this up.

CinJA
 
centrair
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:20 pm

No International LCCs to China or Asia yet (only JetStar to OZ). But I have heard that NGO is in talks with a few for service (rumored as Tiger and Viva Macau).

NH has been rumored to be looking into developing a JetStar like operation in the next coming years. This would take care of the low yield tourists on flights up to 6 hours or something like that. The main target would be China and Korea. But the big problem is NRT. KIX, FUK, CTS, and NGO as well as a handful of other airports could take LCCs now but the major market of Tokyo is restricted. When HND opens up the new runway and allows for more international flights, the LCC market maybe increase.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
geniusjacky
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:22 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:31 pm

Japan itself is small and doesn't really warrant LCC domestically. NH and JL is pretty low cost structured anyways when you are running a 747-400D with all economy.

Also, flights within Asia is not liberalized. It's not the same as in EU where carriers can fly wherever they want.

NRT is super slot-restricted as well, making it hard for new LCC to compete for new slots. And there is only a handful of airports in Japan that handles international, e.g. NRT, KIX, NGO, FUK, CTS. It's definitely a hub and spoke system working within Japan with hubs dominated by major carriers already.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:32 pm

Travel to China is highly regulated and even air fares are regulated, so LCCs are currently given the shaft.
I travel many times to China/Japan and flights of only 1.5 hour duration can cost upwards of US$2,000 on full-fare with only modest or negligible discounts on routes where there is no competition.
Japan to Shanghai routes are less expensive because of the larger number of flights but they are still not exactly inexpensive either. This is one the big reason why the Japanese legacies are making money even with poor loads because the yield is so high.

Japan is so much more different than the US or Europe because of the lack of a secondary airports to the main cities such as Tokyo & Osaka. First problem is slots at these airport and then the development of the secondary airports is out of the question because there aren't any to speak thereof and not likely to change anytime in the next decade.
Lastly, the reason is user fees more than anything else that drives up the cost of doing business in Japan. Whether they be enroute, landing, parking, etc, the Japanese Ministry of Transport charges a lot and then there's all the bureaucracy attached as well.

As a personal opinion, I could care less about LCCs, as fares are not exactly dirt cheap but no longer that expensive in previous years on domestic routes. In the last decades, there are a variety of air fares based on advanced purchasing introduced. While there maybe some downgauging in aircraft size as HND opens up another runway, I would much prefer a 777/787 flight to any narrowbody flight regardless of the duration of the flight. Next, I'd like to keep the RJ phenomena (except where necessary) out of this neck of the woods.
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting CinJA (Reply 3):
There are 4 LCC's in the domestic market (Skymark, Skynet Asia, Air Do, Starflyer)

Skymark has an English web site now. Cool. You can reserve flights w/o credit cards too?!? http://www.skymark.co.jp/en/index.html

Skynet Asia (will take over the rest of the world soon), http://www.skynetasia.co.jp/index.shtml Air Do http://www.skynetasia.co.jp/index.shtml and Starflyer http://www.starflyer.jp/english/ have no useful non-Japanese sites, so they're kind of hard to use. Air Do actually has a page telling you to call them (phone calls? who does that nowadays?).
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8538
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:23 pm

Not to mention the Japanese public has alternatives to domestic air such as the Shinkansen trains
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 pm

Most in Japan have the Money... If your short on Cash take the ferry http://www.shanghai-ferry.co.jp/english/index.htm
 
David L
Posts: 8547
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 7:19 pm

Quoting Geniusjacky (Reply 5):
Japan itself is small and doesn't really warrant LCC domestically.

That doesn't seem to be a factor in the UK, which is about half the size.  Smile
 
CPH757
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:40 pm

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:40 pm

I'd go for a Chinese travel agency, at least if you're starling/ending in China. They often have some very good discounts on the legacy carriers in the Asian region.

Edit: For instance elong.net can do PVG-KIX-PVG for US$72 + US§103 in taxes on MU. Tried on a random week in july.

[Edited 2007-06-18 15:43:43]
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
Analog
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:24 am

RE: Why No LCC's In Japan?

Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting Cospn (Reply 9):
Most in Japan have the Money...

Really? Japanese people aren't any richer than Americans or [pick a Western European nation]. Most people like to save money... just look at the 100 yen stores: so much better than the dollar stores in the US.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
Not to mention the Japanese public has alternatives to domestic air such as the Shinkansen trains

They're pretty expensive.

Quoting Carpethead (Reply 6):
Japan is so much more different than the US or Europe because of the lack of a secondary airports to the main cities such as Tokyo & Osaka.

That's gotta be the real reason. Just wait till the US leaves OKO (Yokota, in eastern Tokyo) and gives Tokyo another airport. Of course this won't happen in the foreseeable future.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 7BOEING7, a380787, airzona11, atlflyer, b377, falstaff, jakef, JAmie2k9, javier787, jbs2886, LeCoqFrancais, Majestic-12 [Bot], Mexicana757, timberwolf24, Tokushima, Yahoo [Bot] and 249 guests