amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:33 pm

According to the Wall street Journal, Delta is considering to make a $20 Billion order for 125 787 a/c by the end of this year. The information was cited by Delta's operating chief Jim Whitehurst.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1182...839877.html?mod=home_whats_news_us

This should be interesting if its true!!!!

God lucj and hurray for DL!!!
 
B7X7
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:26 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:43 pm

Wow if this is true this will make the Qatar order yestruday seam small!!!

I wonder what modle they will take, i would have thought the 788 and 789, i wonder about the 787-10

lets see if this is true,
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:10 pm

It looks like Delta is denying the order, at the Paris show a top DL executive was cited as aying that DL still needs to decide between the 787 and 350.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070619/bs_nm/delta_boeing_dc_2
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:12 pm

Also being reported by Reuters:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070619/bs_nm/delta_boeing_dc_1

125 787s would be about 20 more than the current amount of 767s they fly now, wouldn't it?
International Homo of Mystery
 
EI321
Posts: 4788
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 2):
It looks like Delta is denying the order, at the Paris show a top DL executive was cited as aying that DL still needs to decide between the 787 and 350.

Yeah right  Wink

The chances of DL or AA not ordering Boeing are somewhere between slim and none!
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
125 787s would be about 20 more than the current amount of 767s they fly now, wouldn't it?

Its probably for 25 - 35 a/c and the rest will be options.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 4):
Quoting Amirs (Reply 2):DL still needs to decide between the 787 and 350.
  

Well, they can pretend to acually be considering A350 in order to get a better price from Boeing.

[Edited 2007-06-19 11:26:20]
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
Well, they can pretend to acually be considering A350 in order to get a better price from Boeing.

DL will get the best price out of boeing any if they say its the 787.....DL is in the top 3(DL,AA,CO) and they get what they want when the want it at a really really really good price

[Edited 2007-06-19 11:44:19]
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
User avatar
PanAm_DC10
Crew
Posts: 3795
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2000 7:37 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
125 787s would be about 20 more than the current amount of 767s they fly now, wouldn't it?

Its probably for 25 - 35 a/c and the rest will be options.

I concur Amirs any order of that magnitude by DL would most likely be similar to the QF deal with similar breakdown of firm orders, options and purchase rights interchangeable to other models if needed.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
The chances of DL or AA not ordering Boeing are somewhere between slim and none!

I wouldn't be so sure, I think Airbus has an excellent chance with Delta. Then again, I just saw a pig flying past my window  Silly .

Would be too damn good if that order happens. Add in AA's 100+ order, and 800 787s before EIS look realistic.
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:46 pm

Delta has a boring fleet, and a flood of 787s won´t change that, make it even worse if the 767s AND 777s are replaced by them.
 
CXfirst
Posts: 2875
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:13 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:48 pm

Everyone is talking about the 100 A350/787 order by EK, and saying how that is so large. But, DL really going for more than EK, and QR? It's nearly unbelievable.

-CXfirst
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
The chances of DL or AA not ordering Boeing are somewhere between slim and none!

While you may be right, let's not forget that historically Delta has had quite a diversified fleet, relying heavily on Douglas and Lockheed for aircraft. It certainly appears that they're headed towards becoming an all-Boeing airline though.
International Homo of Mystery
 
PADSpot
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:31 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:50 pm

Quoting B7X7 (Reply 1):
Wow if this is true this will make the Qatar order yestruday seam small!!!

It certainly does, but if you compare the size of DL with that of QR they could order 200 and it would not surprise me really. But OK, the US market is at a completely different stage of maturity than the MiddleEast market is. I think once the first REALLY big 787 order by a US major kicks in many will follow because it creates lots of pressure on competition. Similar to the amount of pressure that EK exerts with their future A380 fleet, although in a different segment.
 
fewsolarge
Posts: 398
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:02 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 9):
Delta has a boring fleet

Which is much more efficient than the overly exciting fleet it had a few years ago. They're not in business to impress people with their fleet diversity.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3331
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:14 pm

I think we'll all be flying in our own personal hovercraft vehicles by the time DL takes delivery of even its first 787. Nice job, waiting so long. If you don't have to really pay for the planes until you take delivery, why wait THIS long to order them? With a flush order book for the 787 and plans to wait until the end of the year to order theirs, Delta will need duct tape and baling wire to hold together the planes that the 787 will be replacing.
 
chiad
Posts: 982
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 4:24 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:25 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
DL will get the best price out of boeing any if they say its the 787.....DL is in the top 3(DL,AA,CO) and they get what they want when the want it at a really really really good price

If we are talking about 125 frames, I dont think that Airbus is ready to let Delta go with at least giving them the same price as Boeing.
As of fleet commonality, 125 frames already benefits from itself.

I think Delta is seriously considering the A350!
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 10):
Everyone is talking about the 100 A350/787 order by EK, and saying how that is so large. But, DL really going for more than EK, and QR? It's nearly unbelievable.

You really put on par an airline that is serving out of a country with roughly 4,5 Million to an operator serving a nation with almost 300 Million souls? You are kidding right? DL could make use of 125 787s just by replacing older models and maybe unifying it's long-haul fleet and replacing both the 767s and 777 with the 787s... yet they did not added a single seat to their capacity, whereas EK is bringing into service wide-bodies in hundreds of numbers... honestly which one do you see a more viable business? I am not saying EK or the Middle-East carriers with high hopes will fail, but DL has better chances I think to make use of such a massive order.
Peet7G
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:34 pm

this is the latest sum up of the statement:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070619...fp/usaerospaceairline_070619092916

Quote:
Delta mulls 'massive' order for Boeing Dreamliner: company
1 hour, 2 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) - US airline Delta Air Lines is mulling a possible huge order for the new Boeing 787 "Dreamliner" long-haul aircraft, an executive at the airline told the Internet edition of the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday.



The executive, Jim Whitehurst, speaking as the second day of the Paris Air Show got underway at Le Bourget near Paris, did not advance precise figures.

Whitehurst, the chief operating officer at Delta Air Lines, said that his company was considering placing "a massive order over a long period of time."

The newspaper reported that the contract, which could be announced by the end of the year, might be for 125 aircraft, on the basis of firm offers together with options.

The value of such a contract, at catalogue prices, would be 20 billion dollars.

However, the report also quoted a spokeswoman for the company as saying: "Delta will be looking at options to modernize our fleet over the long term -- including both Boeing and Airbus -- but have no firm plans at this time."

Delta does not operate any planes made by the European Airbus group.

They added thatits for "firm orders together with options"
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:49 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
DL will get the best price out of boeing any if they say its the 787.....DL is in the top 3(DL,AA,CO) and they get what they want when the want it at a really really really good price

DL is also in the poor-house just barely recovering from the brink of financial ruin. I think you're counting your chickens a little early there. Then again that seems to be a generalized practice here in these forums.

While I think it's very likely DL will order the B787, it might well be some time before their financial condition is in sufficient order. I also think it's much more likely that we'll see them order in smaller increments like CO did, firming up a few here and there as they move back to profitability. Maybe something on the scale of 20+20 would be a bit more rational to start off with.

Delta needs to make a whole lot more money than they are right now to go out and drop down the deposits on a 20 billion dollar order. I would be very surprised to see lenders stepping up to make that happen at this stage.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2107
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:50 pm

So basically this article is telling us nothing that we dont already know. We know that all the big boys AA,DL and UA are probably talking to Boeing and Airbus about future needs, they are doing that all the time. I will wait until they order before I get too excited.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:57 pm

Quoting Chiad (Reply 15):
I think Delta is seriously considering the A350!

and US was looking at the 787

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
While I think it's very likely DL will order the B787, it might well be some time before their financial condition is in sufficient order. I also think it's much more likely that we'll see them order in smaller increments like CO did, firming up a few here and there as they move back to profitability. Maybe something on the scale of 20+20 would be a bit more rational to start off with.

Delta needs to make a whole lot more money than they are right now to go out and drop down the deposits on a 20 billion dollar order. I would be very surprised to see lenders stepping up to make that happen at this stage.

I dont think DL will come out and buy 125 a/c at once.......DL will buy a few now and have alot of options

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
DL is also in the poor-house just barely recovering from the brink of financial ruin. I think you're counting your chickens a little early there. Then again that seems to be a generalized practice here in these forums.

wow your making it sound like they have no money at all.......look at NW they ordered 15(?) 787s plus E-70s and CR9s and they where alot worse than DL was
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8934
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 2):
top DL executive was cited as aying that DL still needs to decide between the 787 and 350.

I was going to do the "yeah, right" bit, but my compatriot got there before me!

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if DL's ultimate commitment to the 787 was in the 120+ region, but I'd say the initial commitment would probably be around the 30-40 mark, mostly 788s, to begin with, but ultimately, the 777-200s will be replaced by -9/10s.

So much for the reports about "preliminary talks" we had yesterday!
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:17 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 21):
So much for the reports about "preliminary talks" we had yesterday!

i guess that means we will see a order tomorrow then right?
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
zsx81
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2000 11:46 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:19 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 9):



Quoting NA (Reply 9):
Delta has a boring fleet, and a flood of 787s won´t change that, make it even worse if the 767s AND 777s are replaced by them.

I think this qualifies as the most idiotic statement of this thread. How does a fleet become boring?
 
fraport
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:45 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 9):
Delta has a boring fleet, and a flood of 787s won´t change that, make it even worse if the 767s AND 777s are replaced by them.

What exactly is a "boring fleet"??? And who has an exciting fleet? Great post, man!
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Yea, my vote would be 40 firm and the rest options. And you'll prolly see most of the options exercised by 2020.
 
11Bravo
Posts: 1678
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:54 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 20):
I dont think DL will come out and buy 125 a/c at once.......DL will buy a few now and have alot of options

Options for the 787 are probably quite expensive right now given the extreme demand for this aircraft.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 20):
wow your making it sound like they have no money at all..

I didn't say that.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 20):
.......look at NW they ordered 15(?) 787s plus E-70s and CR9s and they where alot worse than DL was

NW ordered its 787s (18+50) before they went into bankruptcy. Delta's purchase is not contingent on what NW did or didn't do anyway; it is irrelevant.

As for who's financial condition is worse, I think it's fair to say they are both struggling to make ends meet, and that it will be very challenging for both to implement large-scale fleet replacement programs given their current profitability.
WhaleJets Rule!
 
davidkunzVIE
Posts: 269
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:32 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting Fraport (Reply 24):
What exactly is a "boring fleet"??? And who has an exciting fleet? Great post, man!

OS has an "exciting fleet" and it brought them to the brink of bankruptcy...  Wink

Not so long ago, they had:
343
332
321
320
319
772
763
738
73G
736
734
733
100
F70
CR2
CR1
DH3
DH4


Then again, I don't think that DL's is "boring". They have got pretty much everything Boeing has to offer these days and offered the past two decades. I wouldn't think of this as boring, especially considering that 77Ls and perhaps 788s are underway.
DH3 DH4 CR1 CR2 CR7 CR9 F70 732 733 734 73G 738 752 762 763 772 742 743 319 320 321 333 343
 
SEPilot
Posts: 4915
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:56 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):

The chances of DL or AA not ordering Boeing are somewhere between slim and none!

 checkmark 

Quoting Amirs (Reply 5):
Well, they can pretend to acually be considering A350 in order to get a better price from Boeing.

Or to avoid stockholder lawsuits.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8):
I wouldn't be so sure, I think Airbus has an excellent chance with Delta. Then again, I just saw a pig flying past my window

Or they might order the pigs instead.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 15):
I think Delta is seriously considering the A350!

And Bill Clinton is seriously considering voting for Barack Obama.
Just as US undoubtedly was influenced by both the help from Airbus during their bankruptcy and Boeing helping block the takeover of Delta, Delta will be mindful of the same.
As to the size and timing of the order, it sounds to me that Delta wants a few planes a year for a good many years. IMHO that is a good way to do it, and probably gets them a better price than if they made several orders.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 22935
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
DL is also in the poor-house just barely recovering from the brink of financial ruin. I think you're counting your chickens a little early there. Then again that seems to be a generalized practice here in these forums...
Delta needs to make a whole lot more money than they are right now to go out and drop down the deposits on a 20 billion dollar order. I would be very surprised to see lenders stepping up to make that happen at this stage.

This is a somewhat common refrain on these boards, but honestly, it's just not that black and white.

Look at how many creditors were happy to try and salvage all these companies in bankruptcy. They didn't do it for s**ts and grins. They did it because they believe a leaner and more efficient company existing bankruptcy could make money. If DL getting 787s makes them leaner and more efficient, then creditors will step up and finance it. Especially since Boeing helped designed the 787 with input from major aviation creditors to make it a more appealing asset to finance. So even if DL is liquidated a week after they take delivery of their first 787, those creditors are not going to have any worries about placing them with someone else at a favorable rate.

I agree it's not going to be 125 firm orders with full deposits at the time of the signing, but if DL wants them and can show they can make more money with them then without them, they're going to get them.
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 29):
If DL getting 787s makes them leaner and more efficient, then creditors will step up and finance it. Especially since Boeing helped designed the 787 with input from major aviation creditors to make it a more appealing asset to finance.

Bingo. Even worst case, DL goes belly up, the 787s will fetch a good price on the open market. They shouldnt have a hard time financing the units.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:23 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 28):
Or they might order the pigs instead.

Nah, DL wants to expand in the Gulf Region after all  Silly .

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 30):
Bingo. Even worst case, DL goes belly up, the 787s will fetch a good price on the open market. They shouldnt have a hard time financing the units.

Heck, if DL gets a good deal with a large rebate and goes belly-up, the "used" 787s could even be sold for more than what DL actually paid. Not likely, but no doubt possible.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 8):
wouldn't be so sure, I think Airbus has an excellent chance with Delta. Then again, I just saw a pig flying past my window .

the A350 answer is in your signature

"Of course, you could wait for the (Airbus) A350," he said, "But why?" (Gerald Grinstein, Delta CEO)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:49 pm

I dont know why everyone is all in an uproar over this. It will be months before anything happens, DL has said so.
One Nation Under God
 
SEPilot
Posts: 4915
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:56 pm

[quote=DAYflyer,reply=33]I dont know why everyone is all in an uproar over this. It will be months before anything happens, DL has said so[/quot]
What do you expect us to do? Sit on our hands, twiddle our thumbs, or die of boredom? What is this forum for anyway?  wink   stirthepot 
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
AA787823
Posts: 696
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:27 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 4):
The chances of DL or AA not ordering Boeing are somewhere between slim and none!

Per Ralph Ricchardi.....AA will not be ordering ANY 787s this year...Not gonna happen.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 7982
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:08 pm

I do see Delta Airlines (DL) order the 787-8 and 787-9 sometime in the next 2-3 years to start replacing their rapidly aging 767 fleet. This isn't like American Airlines, which has phased out their oldest 767-200's and are relying on their newer 767's.
 
deltadc9
Posts: 2788
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:00 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 9):
Delta has a boring fleet, and a flood of 787s won´t change that

So what you are sdaying is that you find airliners boring, and you paid money to come here and say that?

Quoting Chiad (Reply 15):
I think Delta is seriously considering the A350!

Due diligence. You cant borrow money without it.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 26):
and that it will be very challenging for both to implement large-scale fleet replacement programs given their current profitability.

You are looking at it bass akwards. It will be hard for them to maintain profitibility without a large scale fleet replacement.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 29):
Look at how many creditors were happy to try and salvage all these companies in bankruptcy. They didn't do it for s**ts and grins. They did it because they believe a leaner and more efficient company existing bankruptcy could make money. If DL getting 787s makes them leaner and more efficient, then creditors will step up and finance it. Especially since Boeing helped designed the 787 with input from major aviation creditors to make it a more appealing asset to finance. So even if DL is liquidated a week after they take delivery of their first 787, those creditors are not going to have any worries about placing them with someone else at a favorable rate.

What he said....

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 30):
Even worst case, DL goes belly up, the 787s will fetch a good price on the open market.

Exactly, its not like a mortgage lendor is taking a huge risk because if you go belly up, he gets the house anyway, and the interenst and principal payments you made on top of it.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
flyingchoirboy
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:35 pm

I highly doubt that DL would order the A350 for two reasons:

1) Their loyalty to Boeing will not only help them in getting a more than fair price for the 787s but also for future aircraft. At some point, they will begin to replace the MD-80/90 fleet, and I'd guess they would love a nice price for some more 737s. I'd love to see DL with a 739ER.  crossfingers 

2) DL can probably obtain earlier delivery slots from Boeing, considering that they are one of Boeing's top three airline customers, as well as the earlier entry into service for the 787.

Scott
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting Fraport (Reply 24):
What exactly is a "boring fleet"??? And who has an exciting fleet? Great post, man!

Variety is interesting, monopoly is boring. Delta has a boring fleet of only small and medium-sized twinjets. Don´t tell me thats exiting! Come on, I thought that most people here were enthusiasts, didn´t know that some would like a sky full of 787s.

An exiting fleet for me is the one of Lufthansa or Thai Airways, with lots of different types, and many big jets among them. From the US airlines NWA has the most interesting mix.
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:50 pm

One thought to this A350 Vs 787 in DL fleet ordeal... did anyone consider the fact that the A358XWB is simply too big to be a good 763ER replacement? Not even mentioning those thin routes that we see emerging with wingleted 757s...

I know many "airbus know it all" will be coming with the figures that the A350XWB will be a million% more economical, but why fly empty seats, when the majority of DL trans-atlantic flights do not need those extra seats? It is the same thing as with the 767 vs A330 comments. Many here try dead hard to prove what a fuel burner the 767 is vs. the A330... and I agree, but what if you have no need for the extra capacity the A330 has to offer? Then things come down all too marginal, and there are scenarios where a 767 might still strike back... get the OS picture?  Wink
Peet7G
 
SEPilot
Posts: 4915
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:21 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 39):
An exiting fleet for me is the one of Lufthansa or Thai Airways, with lots of different types, and many big jets among them. From the US airlines NWA has the most interesting mix.

Yeah, but financial analysts don't see it that way, with good reason. The more types in your fleet the higher your costs. Each type requires crews, spares, and mechanics; the WN model has sound reasoning behind it. Also, when a plane goes tech it's much easier, quicker, and cheaper to cover it when you have fewer types to deal with.
The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):
historically Delta has had quite a diversified fleet, relying heavily on Douglas and Lockheed for aircraft. It certainly appears that they're headed towards becoming an all-Boeing airline though.

Yep...and their deal with Boeing, which was later retracted due to anti-trust concerns, to purchase Boeing exclusively was made to streamline operations and reduce expenses....which grew to epic proportions while supporting three or four different manufacturers airplanes.

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 13):
Which is much more efficient than the overly exciting fleet it had a few years ago.

see above...

Quoting Chiad (Reply 15):
I think Delta is seriously considering the A350!

They should if they expect to get the best deal.

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 16):
You are kidding right? DL could make use of 125 787s just by replacing older models and maybe unifying it's long-haul fleet and replacing both the 767s and 777 with the 787s

The 125 787s will replace a goodly number of 767s as well as 757s. The 777 is not going to easily be replaced by 787s. I think those will be in the fleet until Boeing builds a replacement for that size airplane.

Quoting 11Bravo (Reply 18):
DL is also in the poor-house just barely recovering from the brink of financial ruin.

True, that's what I thought....but the DL exec is the one who said the order will probably come before the end of the year and it'll be massive (100+). Those were his words.

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 28):
Just as US undoubtedly was influenced by both the help from Airbus during their bankruptcy and Boeing helping block the takeover of Delta,

I'm certain that the institutional memory will play a part in ongoing business decisions. Boeings assistance to DL (which benefitted Boeing by helping to keep their financing going) was probably of greater significance to DL than Airbus's was to NW.

Quoting NA (Reply 39):
Variety is interesting, monopoly is boring.

When DL had Boeings, Lockheeds, Douglas, McDonnell Douglas, Canadair/Bombardier and ATR they were certainly interesting and a trip to ATL guaranteed alot of variety (especially when EA was there and you had Airbus in large quantity.....but

DL went BK because they could not manage/cope with their expense to income ratio and the fact that they were supporting multiple types certainly did not help. Take a look at Tech Ops for DL....hell, they had 15 different simulators just to ensure training for their fleet.....(only a slight exaggeration).

Boring, as you call it, will make them more cost effective and get them farther profit wise.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
flyingchoirboy
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 39):
Variety is interesting, monopoly is boring. Delta has a boring fleet of only small and medium-sized twinjets. Don´t tell me thats exiting! Come on, I thought that most people here were enthusiasts, didn´t know that some would like a sky full of 787s.

An exiting fleet for me is the one of Lufthansa or Thai Airways, with lots of different types, and many big jets among them. From the US airlines NWA has the most interesting mix.

From an enthusiast standpoint, ATL is DEFINITELY one of the most boring airports to spot at  Silly It's a sea of DL (85% of daily flights, I believe), with FL and 'the others' making up the remaining 15%. Delta Connection/ASA still flies ATR-72s, which are always refreshing to see in a land of jets, and they used to operate EMB-120s. I miss those.

American Connection used to have a Jetstream 31 flight between ATL and BNA, which was cool. I've always wanted to fly on that plane!

Scott
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:00 pm

We might hear that Delta ordered 80 787 today .....
 
fraport
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:45 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 39):
An exiting fleet for me is the one of Lufthansa ....

Yeah, LH's fleet is extremely exciting when it comes to a balanced Boeing vs. Airbus mix. Let me see what we have:

Airbus:
A319 (more on order)
A320 (more on order)
A321 (more on order)
A330 (more on order)
A340-300
A340-600 (more on order)
A380 (order likely to be increased)

Boeing:
B737-300/-500 (soon to be gone and replaced by A319/320)
B747 (the only Boeing aircraft with a future at LH)


And the latest statements of Mr. Mayrhuber (787-3 and -8 no option) show that they will stick with Airbus when it comes to the 787 vs. A350 decision. You're right, LH's fleet policy is breathtaking  Yeah sure
 
na
Posts: 9129
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 1999 3:52 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:03 pm

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 41):

Yeah, but financial analysts don't see it that way, with good reason.

A real aviation enthusiast hates monopoly. Of cause I know WHY decisions are made in favour of the cheaper solution and a simplified fleet, but I dare to say that boringness is boringness. There is no large airline worldwide which as a fleet which has a more boring mix than Delta.
 
PEET7G
Posts: 468
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:00 pm

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting Amirs (Reply 44):
We might hear that Delta ordered 80 787 today .....

What makes you come to this conclusion? Of course I would be jumping in and out of my hide if it turns out to be true, but I just can't see this order materialize so soon  Smile
Peet7G
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting PEET7G (Reply 47):
hat makes you come to this conclusion?

Speculation from Le Bourget
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta May Make Order For 125 787 A/c

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting NA (Reply 46):
A real aviation enthusiast hates monopoly

BS. Variation is good to a certain degree, but just what good is variety when your airline is on the brink of CH7 simply because you are flying every single different metal tube on this planet? You need seperate parts, seperate flight sims, seperate crew training, etc.

Quoting NA (Reply 46):
There is no large airline worldwide which as a fleet which has a more boring mix than Delta.

You ever heard of carriers like Southwest, Ryanair or Easyjet?