Delta4eva
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DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:25 pm

DL to install winglets on more than 60 aircraft. 38 737NG, 10 757, and 15 767-300ERs.

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10746
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FFlyer
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:26 pm

737's will get the "Song-AVOD"? That's good news, too.

When will the winglets be installed? I guess the ex-AA/TWA 757's will get them first, and will be maybe getting them before entering DL service. Will we maybe see a DL 757 flying to places like HEL (with single "L") by next summer?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:32 pm

now maybe DL can put AVOD on the 763ERs?
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DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:12 pm

Guess that means ATL-LOS won't be their longest 763ER for long  Wink . About time DL jumped on the winglet bandwagon.
 
flyingcat
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
now maybe DL can put AVOD on the 763ERs?

My thoughts exactly as the intl 767-300 ERs are pushed to the limit. That is supposedly the reason they don't have the PTVs.
 
SNATH
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:37 pm

Quoting Delta4eva (Thread starter):
and 15 767-300ERs.

Has anyone else retrofitted their B767s with winglets? I remember AC talking about it but, in the end, they didn't do it.

Thanks,

Tony
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting SNATH (Reply 5):
Has anyone else retrofitted their B767s with winglets? I remember AC talking about it but, in the end, they didn't do it.

AA is putting winglets on all 767s
DL just 15 for now but i would bet they add more.
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WJ
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:31 pm

DL should call their winglets "Widgelets"...
146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
 
RL757PVD
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
DL just 15 for now but i would bet they add more.

Isnt there a select sub-fleet that can fly to DKR/JNB.. perhaps its the reason why only 15 will be done first (or only)?

15 767 w/ winglets =
ATL-LOS
ATL-DKR-JNB
JFK-TLV
LAX- Asia ???
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 8):
Isnt there a select sub-fleet that can fly to DKR/JNB.. perhaps its the reason why only 15 will be done first (or only)?

yes there is i think they have biger(high thrust) GE engines on them


Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 8):
ATL-LOS
ATL-DKR-JNB
JFK-TLV
LAX- Asia ???

add ATL-ATH to that
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RL757PVD
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 9):
yes there is i think they have biger(high thrust) GE engines on them

is that fleet 15 aircraft? if so, i think we know which ones will be getting the winglets....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
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Acey559
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:49 pm

Beat me to it, I just saw this on DeltaNet. Anyway, this is great news for DL, and will further help with cost savings. I'm definitely looking forward to the introduction of the winglets.
 
dl021
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 3):
About time DL jumped on the winglet bandwagon.

Well, it was a difficult thing to justify when they were in bankruptcy. There was limited cash to do such things.

It certainly does make good sense.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:11 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
AA is putting winglets on all 767s

Only the 763ERs, not the 762ERs nor the non-ER 763s.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 12):
Well, it was a difficult thing to justify when they were in bankruptcy. There was limited cash to do such things.

True, but DL could have always argumented with the fuel savings the winglets on the 757s and 738s would give them, not necessarily mention that they want them for more range.
 
SNATH
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
AA is putting winglets on all 767s

Ah, I now remember! Thanks!

Tony
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Alitalia744
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:23 pm

Well, I guess it's out...  

The winglet additions will help extend the reach of the 76E subleet being established by DAL. They're also adding a crew-rest, to allow pilots to fly the up-coming 12+ hr missions these birds will be scheduled on.

Hopefully they spell out the other mod soon...  Wink

[Edited 2007-06-19 16:35:07]
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tinpusher007
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:34 pm

I have always wondered why go with blended winglets on the 763ER's and not the raked wing tips like the 764?
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LawnDart
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 13):
True, but DL could have always argumented with the fuel savings the winglets on the 757s and 738s would give them,

Argumented?  boggled 

As DL021 stated: DL didn't have cash to buy the winglets; Aviation Partners couldn't care less how much fuel it would save them, they aren't in business to give winglets away for free...

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
They're also adding a crew-rest, to allow pilots to fly the up-coming 12+ hr missions these birds will be scheduled on.

I didn't read that in the press release...of course, I'm a slow reader and am only half-way through it.

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 16):
I have always wondered why go with blended winglets on the 763ER's and not the raked wing tips like the 764?

I wondered the same thing myself, but it seems the blended winglets by Aviation Partners reduce fuel burn slightly more than the raked winglets on the -400s. The raked winglets were the available technology at the time the -400 was being designed, and they are less stressful to the wing than the winglet (disclaimer: the previous statement was made by a technologically ignunt individual, and was repeated from conversation heard previously. If you have an issue with the validity of said statement, keep it to yourself).

In announcing the order for the winglets, Jim Whitehurst made the statement that the blended winglets would allow the B767-300ER to fly LAX to NRT non-stop, "not that we're planning to do so...".

Hmm...CYA, Jim?
 
DAYflyer
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:54 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 17):
In announcing the order for the winglets, Jim Whitehurst made the statement that the blended winglets would allow the B767-300ER to fly LAX to NRT non-stop, "not that we're planning to do so...".

Hmm...CYA, Jim?

Then what would be the point if they are not planning on doing it?? Makes no sense otherwise. A very poor effort at CYA in any case.
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eraugrad02
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:02 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 13):
Only the 763ERs, not the 762ERs nor the non-ER 763s.

You'd think the non-ER Version would benefit even more. they should make them for all 757s/767's. I dont get it.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 16):
I have always wondered why go with blended winglets on the 763ER's and not the raked wing tips like the 764?

Because the rakes are an internal Boeing patent whereas the aftermarket wiinglets are a product of APB, which is inhouse but not internal.

Shame too-- because the rakes would look sooooo much better on the 767, just like blendeds would look sooo much better than rakes on the (already disgusting-looking quadjet) 748i
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panamair
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 18):
Then what would be the point if they are not planning on doing it?? Makes no sense otherwise. A very poor effort at CYA in any case.

Not saying that DL won't do LAX-NRT, but the previously announced ATL-LOS and JFK-TLV are already both longer than LAX-NRT:

LAX-NRT: 4737 nm
ATL-LOS: 5078 nm
JFK-TLV: 4934 nm

Even without LAX-NRT, the winglets will come in handy for both LOS and TLV...

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 17):
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
They're also adding a crew-rest, to allow pilots to fly the up-coming 12+ hr missions these birds will be scheduled on.

I didn't read that in the press release

It wasn't in this press release but it has been mentioned before. BTW, if you look at the seatmap for any 763ER flight in the near future, you will notice that not only has seat 6C (the traditional pilot rest seat) been blocked off, but 5C as well now (since the lie-flat seat will take up more space)....
 
albird87
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 4):
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):
now maybe DL can put AVOD on the 763ERs?

My thoughts exactly as the intl 767-300 ERs are pushed to the limit. That is supposedly the reason they don't have the PTVs.

Well AA dont have PTV's on there 767s and they just went throught upgrading them with the new biz class and some new overhead bins.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 13):
Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 6):
AA is putting winglets on all 767s

Only the 763ERs, not the 762ERs nor the non-ER 763s.

I dont think AA has anymore non-ER 300s. They just have some 762ERs for there JFK-LAX/SFO and the 763ERs for some Domestic movements and International flights. I was a bit confused when AA went through upgrading the 763 biz cabin and installing new overhead bins in the biz class and front Y cabin but not the rest. Also not installing some PTV's in the aircraft!!
 
RB211LTN
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:41 am

So, they are installing Flight Crew rest but nothing extra for the Cabin Crew. 12-plus hours on a 767 is bad enough but without proper (horizontal) rest it is positively inhumane. I know there is nowhere to put it without impacting passenger capacity (revenue). Could they have a cargo-bay module like the 777?
Imagine if BA announced plans to go over 12 hours with their 767's. They crew would be out on strike before you can say "trades union representative". Not that the crew would need something as severe as this to cause the threat of strike action, it could be something far more trivial. I can sya this with impunity as no BA crew will be reading this, they will all be at Royal Ascot. And before you all start whingeing, I am a former BA steward so I know the way they all think.
The customer is always right.....unless he is a passenger!
 
panamair
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting RB211LTN (Reply 23):
So, they are installing Flight Crew rest but nothing extra for the Cabin Crew. 12-plus hours on a 767 is bad enough but without proper (horizontal) rest it is positively inhumane. I know there is nowhere to put it without impacting passenger capacity (revenue).

The FAs will get crew rest seats with legrests and better recline, etc. - better than what they get today which are four regular Y seats in the back of the 767.
 
Hamlet69
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting SNATH (Reply 5):
Has anyone else retrofitted their B767s with winglets? I remember AC talking about it but, in the end, they didn't do it.

So far, announced customers are:

AA - 763ER's
LAN - 763ER's and 763F's
Austrian - 763ER's
Delta - 763ER's


Regards,

Hamlet69  profile 
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RB211LTN
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:21 am

What do AZ have for crew rest? They do some awfully long flights on the 767's. As one of the most militant workforces in Europe I can't imagine them settling for second best.
Now, I have just noticed a thread about DL ordering a load of 787's. Would they be upgrading the 767's if they are planning to replace them?
The customer is always right.....unless he is a passenger!
 
panamair
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting RB211LTN (Reply 26):
Would they be upgrading the 767's if they are planning to replace them?

The replacements won't start happening until the next decade so the 767s will still be flying for a while....The 767s for international are currently being refurbished, and the J cabins are still scheduled to get a lie-flat product between 2008 and 2010.
 
DiscoverCSG
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting FFlyer (Reply 1):
Will we maybe see a DL 757 flying to places like HEL (with single "L") by next summer?

You mean HEL as opposed to JFK... Big grin
 
Delta4eva
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RE: DL To Install Winglets On 737/757/767

Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 15):
Hopefully they spell out the other mod soon...

I'm going to speculate that this means one of two things: overhead bins being replaced with new 777 style ones; PTVs in economy. Or maybe both??
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