KPDX
Topic Author
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Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:58 am

I just ran across this picture.


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Photo © Luis Tena Orozco - AeroImagenes de Mexico



Is it normal for those planes to climb that steep? I know they climb steep already, but wow.

KPDX  Smile
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mpdpilot
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:59 am

I don't know if it is normal but I have always thought that the DC-9s and MD-80s have always had a very steep climbout.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
OceansWorld
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
Is it normal for those planes to climb that steep? I know they climb steep already, but wow.

I've often seen DC-9s and MD-80s climbing that steeply right after lift-off, but I don't think this rate of climb can be maintained for long as engines thrust must be disturbed by the wings airflow. Just my  twocents 
 
Lexy
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:12 am

Good grief! Better be chewing some gum if you are on that plane.
Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
 
drewwright
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:55 am

The initial climb after rotation is normally steep for most aircraft for obstacle clearance, etc. Once it passes acceleration height, the nose is lowered to accelerate to climb speed.
 
bongo
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:09 am

It looks normal to me.
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RandyWaldron
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
Is it normal for those planes to climb that steep? I know they climb steep already, but wow.

There's nothing overly strange about this picture. It's a typical DC9 climbing after rotation.
"Flaps 20, gear down, landing checklist please..."
 
Jpax
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:15 am

I enjoy the comment on that photo, "I would have to say the pilot was a little above the desired take-off angle."

I suppose he was in the cockpit, knew the load configuration, weather, etc to know what the desired climb out pitch was...  Wink
 
N766UA
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:09 am

Quoting Bongo (Reply 5):
It looks normal to me.

I second that. I don't see anything worth commenting on.
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pitops
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:56 am

If you want to see a steep climb, come to PIT and watch the UPS DC-8 takeoff. It really has a steep takeoff.

After the DC-9 and MD-80s takeoff, they have a steep start but then seem to look like they are dropping a bit after about 20 seconds or so.
Ground Ops, Southwest Airlines, CMH
 
TrijetsRMissed
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:00 pm

Nothing abnormal, the DC-9/MD-80/-90/717 all have above average steep take-offs when compared to rhe 737/A320, which is why they're fun to fly on.  Smile
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting PITops (Reply 9):
After the DC-9 and MD-80s takeoff, they have a steep start but then seem to look like they are dropping a bit after about 20 seconds or so.

They are most likely starting to configure for climb and retracting the flaps at 1,000" AGL or so.. That is quite apparent to all departing airline class aircraft.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:30 pm

Quoting OceansWorld (Reply 2):
but I don't think this rate of climb can be maintained for long as engines thrust must be disturbed by the wings airflow.

The airflow to the engines is not an issue.

Quoting RandyWaldron (Reply 6):
e's nothing overly strange about this picture. It's a typical DC9 climbing after rotation.

Agreed. I have a lot of time in the DC-9 and MD-80 family, and it doesn't look excessive for a reasonable weight takeoff. Depending on the model, weight, flap setting, density altitude and several other factors, normal two engine pitch for a DC-9-30 will initially be around 15 to 18 degrees nose up. Many operators have advisories in their manuals not to exceed 20 degrees nose up for passenger comfort. At light weights the MD-80 and 90 series may accelerate well above V2+15 KIAS while holding the pitch at 20 degrees. The DC-9 and MD-80 series are quite good performers except when very heavy or at very high density altitudes.

Quoting PITops (Reply 9):
After the DC-9 and MD-80s takeoff, they have a steep start but then seem to look like they are dropping a bit after about 20 seconds or so.

At 1,000 AGL we lower the nose to accelerate, just like most other aircraft. (There are exceptions to this rule in a few situations.)

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 11):
They are most likely starting to configure for climb and retracting the flaps at 1,000" AGL or so.. That is quite apparent to all departing airline class aircraft.

 checkmark  Exactly!
 
DIA
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:33 pm

That's fiddle faddle...just try to lean forward on this one:
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Feel the G's yet?
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PGNCS
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting DIA (Reply 13):
That's fiddle faddle...just try to lean forward on this one:


Feel the G's yet?

Interestingly, airlines I have worked for limit the MD-80/90 series to 20 degrees nose up on takeoff for passenger comfort, while the 757 is limited to 18. There are exceptional procedures (SNA comes to mind), but in reality both will generally somewhere between 15 and 18 degrees nose up during the initial climbout.
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:38 pm

The first photo was taken at MEX in late August.
I don't know where you could go to get a higher density altitude than that!
That DC-9 had to be lightly loaded.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
ReverseThrust
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:34 pm

Looks averagely steep to me for a DC-9 / MD-80 take off.

I have had some incredibly steep take off's in MD-80's - notbaly trips with Alitalia and Finnair.

Something that adds an additional thrill to the steep climb is the sometimes very short take-off run DC9-s and MD-80's have.

Long live these birds, both are a real pleasure to fly.

Regards,

Reverse
Flown MD11/81/82/83/87/90,B732/733/734/735/737W/738/739/742/752/753,F70/100,A300/319/320/321/332/333/343,TU134A/154M,L10
 
lufthansi
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:19 pm

Seems normal imo. Would love to go on one of those. SAS is making a space shuttle like take off as well with their MDs. No matter if MD80 or MD11.
Life starts at take-off!
 
airtran717
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:27 pm

Some airports and surrounding city areas have noise abatement restrictions. This requires a steep climb out to get beyond that area quickly. Orange County is one of them. 757's take a rather extreme departure angle on climbout there due to noise abatement. But, to add to others here, I see nothing out of the ordinary from this DC-9. Try going into MDW after a short final and they clear you in NOW. Feels like a strafing run from a P-51 Mustang. Better be strapped into your seats...
 
sv2008
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:29 pm

what was interesting about that pic I thought wasn't the angle but that the wheels are already half retracted just off the ground!
 
bimmerkid19
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:41 pm

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
Steep



Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):
Takeoff

Hmm... thats usually normal for DC-9´s.... I´ve flown on 9´s a lot. Well a bit off topic now... but.... back in December.. I was on KE flight 038 from ORD to ICN on 26-Dec in a B744. ... man.... we used pratically every last foot and inch of RWY 32L. I was watching signs on the side of the runway.. we still hadnt rotated after passing the 1000 foot left mark.. somewhere between the 1000 and 500 mark the plane start to tilt towards the air and bounced a bit on the runway and then got airborne very sluggishly.... and we stayed on the same heading until we were at about 18,000 feet.. and the plane took forever and a day to get to the intial cruise altitude of FL290. The jet had FOB for 19 Hours and 100% capacity.. also 338 pax. and lots of cargo...
Last flights: LH 3738 MUC - ZRH , LH 3749 ZRH - MUC . Upcoming: EK 50 MUC - DXB 3-aug. and EK 322 DXB - ICN 7- Aug.
 
ImperialEagle
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting DIA (Reply 13):
Feel the G's yet?

That photo is wonderful! Reminds me of take-offs in the Boeing 720B.  bigthumbsup 

As for the DC-9 photo---looks normal. Of course with a full load on a hot day-----just because it has the angle does not mean it will climb like a rocket.
In the 1970's ATL was a bastion of DC-9's and there were plenty of hot summers days when one could observe DC-9's of all series struggling to gain some altitude after take-off.

Ever watched a heavy -50 on a hot day. Lead sled man.  eyepopping 
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flyingchoirboy
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 21):
In the 1970's ATL was a bastion of DC-9's and there were plenty of hot summers days when one could observe DC-9's of all series struggling to gain some altitude after take-off.

AirTran Airways B717s have (to some extent) taken over that role, and their climb is not too shabby, having seen plenty take off from there.

Scott
 
jamesjimlb
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:12 am

looks like my take offs on fs2004 with everyplane.  Smile
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shane
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:29 am

Is it true that Mexican pilots are known for their, uh, how shall I put this...

"spirited" or rather "balls to the wall" flying? If so, I'm booking only Mexican carriers on my next trip south!
 
KPDX
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:49 am

I kinda already said I know they climb pretty steep, just the AoA looked kinda high, maybe just when I first looked at it, it looked steeper.  Wink But thanks, I guess I'm wrong.

KPDX  Smile
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PGNCS
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Shane (Reply 24):
Is it true that Mexican pilots are known for their, uh, how shall I put this...

"spirited" or rather "balls to the wall" flying? If so, I'm booking only Mexican carriers on my next trip south!

I have done simulation instruction for both Mexicana and Aeromexico, and they both have very professional, by the book cockpit crews. There is a degree of technique involved in rotation rate (DC-9 manuals recommend 3 degrees per second) but that is a matter of practice and experience.

Again, a perfectly normal photo.

The DC-9-40 and -50 are much tamer (NWA has weight restrictions on the -40s especially throughout the summer depending on the route and alternate requirements, etc.) than the -10, -20, and -30. To repeat again, ANY airplane when loaded to near its Maximum Climb Limit Weight (like the 747 example provided above) will be a pig with wings...yes, that includes the 757.
 
CRJ900
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:02 am

I have had many steep take-offs with SAS MD80s but their MD90 was less steep. Due to the extended fuselage maybe?
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CPHGuard
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting Lufthansi (Reply 17):
SAS is making a space shuttle like take off as well with their MDs. No matter if MD80 or MD11.

I don't beleive SAS ever had any MD11's

Cheers
 
deltadc9
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:43 am

Roller coasters and DC-9s, two of my favorite thrill rides.

Looks like a run of the mill takeoff to me.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
otnysaslhr
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:40 am

As it's been already said that looks a fairly normal DC9 take off. However the most impressive were the SAS DC9-21 or as the crews called them "DC9 Sports" or "Pocket Rockets". All the power of a DC9-41 with about 7 tonnes less in max gross weight. Could those things get off the ground - especially when light.
They were developed especially for SAS to operate out of the restricted Norwegian Fjord Airfields.
Rgds
Tony
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captaink
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 1):
I don't know if it is normal but I have always thought that the DC-9s and MD-80s have always had a very steep climbout.
I have noticed that as well. I have seen climb outs on the MD83 even steeper than the picture shown. BWIA used to operate the MD83, and ex GND I have seen rather crazy take offs. It was a joke among the pilots that the MD83 was the Concorde of their fleet....


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P.S. I think it also has a lot to do with the shape of these airplanes, it makes it look as if it is climbing unusually steep.

[Edited 2007-06-20 20:16:27]
There is something special about planes....
 
N243NW
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 31):
P.S. I think it also has a lot to do with the shape of these airplanes, it makes it look as if it is climbing unusually steep.

 checkmark  We see a lot of MD-80s into and out of MKE...when they're taking off away from you and they rotate thousands of feet down the runway, it looks like they're climbing straight up.

-N243NW Big grin
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geedo
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:35 am

Hey dude, you should watch the UPS 767 that pulls out of here around 5:15 PM. I drive north into Vancouver every night on I-5, and that flight is always do a tailstand.
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jumbojim747
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:44 am

I think most rear engined aircraft tend to rotate at a more extreme angle might have something to do with the tail plane mounted so high


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Note the distance the number 2 engine is to the runway no plug intended
Cheers
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andaman
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting ReverseThrust (Reply 16):


I have had some incredibly steep take off's in MD-80's - notbaly trips with Alitalia and finnair.

Long live these birds, both are a real pleasure to fly.

Regards,

Reverse

I have had same experiences, unfortunately Finnair hasn't any MD-80s left anymore, just A320's and E170/190's.
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SkyexRamper
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:59 am

It's all in the wing. The DC-9 features super critical airfoils ie: swept wings designed for high speed flight. This requires a higher deck angle that a straight wing airplane to generate the same amount of lift.
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Motorhussy
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:12 am

Looks normal to me. 737's out of WLG are often climbing at a more acute rate than that.
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ghost77
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RE: Great Picture Of Steep DC9 Takeoff

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:14 am

Quoting KPDX (Thread starter):

I was there right next to Tena the day the picture was taken, it sure is impressive, but issue here, or at least, what i helped, is the high level it was taken (the international parking lot) which make the picture be seen more impressive. JR give continuously nice surprises to spotters....

PLUS....

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 15):
The first photo was taken at MEX in late August. (cooooooold day that day)
I don't know where you could go to get a higher density altitude than that!
That DC-9 had to be lightly loaded. (it SURE WAS)



Quoting DIA (Reply 13):



Quoting DIA (Reply 13):
Feel the G's yet?

Yeeees!!! I won't NEVER EVER forget that day and departure!!!!!!!

A few more good moments from JR:


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Photo © Jorge Meneses - APM




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Photo © Ricardo Morales Centeno - APM
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Photo © Ricardo Morales Centeno - APM



cheeeeeeeeers!
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!

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