MAH4546
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Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:05 pm

As already discussed, Air France will soon be basing a second A320 in Fort de France, allowing them to essentially double their intra-Caribbean network, which is currently served by a single 171-seat A320. So far, the new plane will be used to increase Miami service to daily (from 3x weekly), but Air France is also considering adding service to three new destinations, Santo Domingo and St. Maarten (which are already served from Paris), as well as Paramaibo, which would be new to the Air France network, but is already served by KLM.

Their proposed new intra-Caribbean network effective November 2007, with frequencies (days per week/7)



Air France has been flying these routes for a very long time. From Miami alone, they have been operating Caribbean flights for nearly three decades.

Article (in French):
http://www.blada.com/boite-aux-lettr..._direction_regionale_de_Guyane.htm
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Tornado82
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:23 pm

What do they do about maintenance considering that prior to this they had a single bird out in the middle of the Caribbean thousands of miles from the rest of their A320's? The A320 is a reliable plane and all, but it seems like the flight schedule would be pretty unreliable having 1 (or now 2) aircraft utilized pretty well with no backups. Mx bugs do pop up time to time, it's only natural.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Netwo

Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1):
The A320 is a reliable plane and all, but it seems like the flight schedule would be pretty unreliable having 1 (or now 2) aircraft utilized pretty well with no backups

The plane is not heavily utilized. It is in the air for less than 7 hours a day, alternating overnights in Miami and Cayenne. With the new plane, there will be an A320 overnighting in Miami daily for 12 hours.

I would assume maintence is done overnight while it is parked in Miami.
a.
 
hardiwv
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:07 pm

AF decided to extend the CAY flight on to Paramaribo, as new route complementing KL nonstop from AMS. Can we expect as a next move to also extend the service from CAY to Belem (BEL) in Brazil? This would be outside France-Brazil bilateral and further enhance AF presence in Brazil. Btw, CAY-BEL is currently operate by Air Caraibes.

Rgs,
 
TriStar500
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 2):
The plane is not heavily utilized. It is in the air for less than 7 hours a day, alternating overnights in Miami and Cayenne. With the new plane, there will be an A320 overnighting in Miami daily for 12 hours.

Considering they are flying the aircraft in a high-density configuration and taking into account the prices they are charging, I am sure AF still makes a lot of money even with such a low block hour utilization.
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PavlovsDog
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:27 pm

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 3):
Can we expect as a next move to also extend the service from CAY to Belem (BEL) in Brazil? This would be outside France-Brazil bilateral and further enhance AF presence in Brazil.

What are the specifications of the bilateral regarding their Caribbean departments?
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:31 pm

On a similar note, one hears vicious rumours that AF is planning to base short-medium haul aircraft in Réunion as well to compete with Air Austral on inter-island and African routes from the Indian Ocean. Possibly they want to hub in Réunion and feed passengers from Mauritius and Madagascar to there, rather than operating seperate long hauls.
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Skyteam10001
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:49 pm

Thanks for the links Mark. The article also says AF is considering opening new destinations from Fort-de-France / Pointe-à-Pitre, especially Panama, which could be very interesting !
 
aad665
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:56 pm

Hi,

AF/AC has right to fly YUL-PAP/Fort-de-France. They already have important base at YUL + possible connection with CDG-YUL. It can be a nice flight for AF over Winter time 2-3x per week with A320? It will increase daily use of their A320.

What do you think?

aad665
 
md90fan
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:01 pm

Quoting Aad665 (Reply 8):
AF/AC has right to fly YUL-PAP

AC flies YUL-PAP, x1 weekly 767.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
aad665
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 9):

Hi,

I guess some market left for AF.2x or 3x weekly. They could cater local market + VFR.

aad665
 
JoFMO
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:28 pm

The French Caribbean territories are a fully integrated part of France and the European Union, much in contrast to many British territories there. So I would assume that CAY and PAP are also part of the coming open sky between Europe and the USA. Or is there any loophole that excludes these territories?
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:59 pm

What I would love is a NYC-French Caribbean service that would allow weekend trips.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 11):
So I would assume that CAY and PAP are also part of the coming open sky between Europe and the USA. Or is there any loophole that excludes these territories?

Haiti is not a French territory, it is an independent country.
a.
 
Humberside
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:35 am

Does anyone have a day by day schedule for AF's revised inter Caribbean network?
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FCKC
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:30 am

The goal of AF to base another A320 in The Caribbean , and possibly to base one at La Reunion , is also to push respectively Air Caraibes and Air Austral bankrupt.
 
md90fan
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 15):
The goal of AF to base another A320 in The Caribbean , and possibly to base one at La Reunion , is also to push respectively Air Caraibes and Air Austral bankrupt.

You know the primary money-maker for these airlines are the runs to mainland France, right?
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MAH4546
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 14):
Does anyone have a day by day schedule for AF's revised inter Caribbean network?

It has not been finalized into GDS systems. For example, MIA is showing 7 departures, but only 6 arrivals. This should be fixed soon, but the frequencies are on the map.
a.
 
FCKC
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:00 pm

MD90fan

Of course Continental France is the main market for Air Caraibes and Air Austral

But do you know their health is not so good ?

The 4th A330 (300) for Air Caraibes has yet to come , and nothing on the horizon.

The 777s of Air Austral do not fly enough.

If AF bases 1 A320 at La Reunion , not sure Air Austral will be able to keep their 737s.

Basing A320s in The Caribbean and at La Reunion will have as result to put respectively Air Caraibes and Air Austral weaker , thus pushing both of them in a non bright future , meaning near bankrupt , and AF will be happy to have reach their goal.
By this way , they will have only one competitor on the main market from Continental France , namely Corsair , which is not a problem since there is a kind of agreement between both of them.
 
Humberside
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
It has not been finalized into GDS systems. For example, MIA is showing 7 departures, but only 6 arrivals. This should be fixed soon, but the frequencies are on the map.

Ii was wondering what routings the flights will take - for example will there still be any MIA-Cayenne through flights?
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md90fan
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Netwo

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting FCKC (Reply 18):

The 4th A330 (300) for Air Caraibes has yet to come , and nothing on the horizon.



Quote:

Air Caraïbes today signed a letter of intent (LOI) with Airbus for the purchase of two A330-300s. Following the success of Air Caraïbes on its transatlantic routes, the airline has decided
to replace its current A330-200s by the larger capacity A330-300s. These aircraft will be delivered in November 2007 and June 2008.
The new A330-300s will be fitted with 372 seats in a comfortable two-class lay-out providing an additional capacity of 48 seats and featuring the latest standards in In-flight entertainment in all cabins. The engine choice has not yet been defined.


That's because the aircraft are scheduled to be delivered in November of this year and June '08  wink 

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...06_15_05_Air_Caraibes_English.html
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
carnival air
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:16 am

Will they ever add SJU?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting Humberside (Reply 19):

Ii was wondering what routings the flights will take - for example will there still be any MIA-Cayenne through flights?

The Miami flight will operate MIA-PAP-PTP-FDF-CAY 4x a week and MIA-PAP-PTP 3x a week.
a.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: Air France Looks To Grow Intra-Caribbean Network

Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:57 am

Wonder if we will see DL codeshares? Like ATL-MIA-SXM (1 stop) with DL/AF? Thatd be sweet
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