blsbls99
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Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:29 am

I wonder if this was part of the deal with their recent Airbus order this week?

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/newsdetails.asp?Sn=TTN&artid=125788

The article states their four aircraft are being deferred to delivery in 2013 which is more appopriate for their business model.
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clickhappy
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:33 am

Wow that has to suck for Airbus, seeing as Etihad are set to take four of the A380 test frames.

Will they just sit now, or will someone else take them?
 
WINGS
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):

Will they just sit now, or will someone else take them?

Those frames have been appointed. What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Regards,
Wings
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EI321
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Blsbls99 (Thread starter):
I wonder if this was part of the deal with their recent Airbus order this week?

Yes, it was announced at Etihads order press conference AFAIK.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Are the four frames in question GP powered?
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Those frames have been appointed. What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month.

Right on. I guess is this is good news for Airbus.

I was trying to imply that this was a bit of a blow for the A380 program, but I guess Etihad deferring is nothing of the sort.

Thanks for the insight.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:50 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 1):
Wow that has to suck for Airbus, seeing as Etihad are set to take four of the A380 test frames.

Will they just sit now, or will someone else take them?


I dont think this news is particularly bad for Airbus. The A380's will continue to be produced, whether Etihad gets them or not. And other airlines and take Etihad's intended frames. So, Airbus will not loose anything in this situation.
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behramjee
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:00 am

So VS and EY will get their A 380s in 2013.

This is a good move by EY as it allows them to establish themselves properly in core long haul markets such as NYC, SYD & LHR for an extra 4 years before they increase capacity from an A 340 / B 77W to an A 380 which is a big jump.
 
dl767captain
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:11 am

well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:18 am

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

Extremely unlikely.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6):
This is a good move by EY as it allows them to establish themselves properly in core long haul markets such as NYC, SYD & LHR for an extra 4 years before they increase capacity from an A 340 / B 77W to an A 380 which is a big jump.

Spot on, and a very smart move IMHO - their A346s will be tough to beat on the LHR and CDG runs that they will have the A380 on.

Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

I believe EY's are Trent powered.

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 4):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
Those frames have been appointed. What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month.

Right on. I guess is this is good news for Airbus

I have a sneaky suspicion these are being deferred to go to QF. Nothing to do with EY magically getting rights to Aus amazingly quickly whilst QR have been trying for years without success (or so i've heard) - but hey, whatever works.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
EI321
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):
Quoting WINGS (Reply 2):
What is interesting is the fact that Emirates placed an order for exactly four frames last month. One might conclude that it has something to do with this deal.

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

I believe EY's are Trent powered.

Assuming they are in the air, I cant see EK taking four odd engined A380s.

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

Doubt it. The 747-8 is a stunning looking plane, but performance wise I just dont think the 747-8I is all its cracked up to be.
 
MEA-707
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:47 am

Etihad was originally supposed to get frame 2, 4 , 7 and 9. Maybe due to the wiring changes and the testing process they have gotten less structurally sound then what Etihad was promised, and they now prefer fresh aircraft later in the run without the problems the early frames had?
Of course Airbus won't scrap these early aircraft but have to do more rebuilding to get the up to par with the later production aircraft.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 10):
Etihad was originally supposed to get frame 2, 4 , 7 and 9. Maybe due to the wiring changes and the testing process they have gotten less structurally sound then what Etihad was promised, and they now prefer fresh aircraft later in the run without the problems the early frames had?
Of course Airbus won't scrap these early aircraft but have to do more rebuilding to get the up to par with the later production aircraft.

Why would re-wiring make a plane less structurally sound? What is involved in the process? Is it like a D-Check sort of thing?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:12 am

EY bought the development aircraft, they knew what they were buying from day 1. Even with the Abu Dhabi government behind them I wonder if cash is getting tight, hard to justify a A380 on the LHR run when they can't fill an A330.....
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 12):
EY bought the development aircraft, they knew what they were buying from day 1. Even with the Abu Dhabi government behind them I wonder if cash is getting tight, hard to justify a A380 on the LHR run when they can't fill an A330.....

I thought it was the LGW route that was struggling? Their A346 is being put on the LHR run I think - an upgrade from the A345 on there in terms of capacity. Means nothing of course but every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.

Good to hear, I must admit I've not flown EY out of LHR for a while but all the previous flights I was on were more than half empty (same as QR). Am trying EK from LHR next week and flights already showing full Sad
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CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 14):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.

Good to hear, I must admit I've not flown EY out of LHR for a while but all the previous flights I was on were more than half empty (same as QR). Am trying EK from LHR next week and flights already showing full

Have a massive soft spot for all three airlines actually - best flight i've ever taken was Pearl LHR-AUH on A345. Just out of this world. Good to see them all doing well.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

Doesn't matter... early airframes can be converted from one to another. Its costly... but far less costly than having the airframes sit for six months trying to find a customer.

Now development aircraft have tons of wire that needs to be ripped out (from various sensors put in for flight testing). If you're ripping apart an airfame anyway... its the cheapest time to convert from one engine to another. Besides, if its originally delivered with an engine, its cheaper than re-qualifying the airframe for the other engine.

I have a feeling that they decided that the "early adopter risk" has just become too extreme.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
I have a sneaky suspicion these are being deferred to go to QF. Nothing to do with EY magically getting rights to Aus amazingly quickly whilst QR have been trying for years without success (or so i've heard) - but hey, whatever works.

Maybe... the lateness of the A380 has put a huge wrench in fleet update plans. It would be worth something for early delivery airframes...

Is there any news on the final customer? Heck, its possible this will "daisy chain" through the process allowing airbus to bring in certain deliveries. Note: I'm just speculating.

I'll be curious as to whom these really go to...
Lightsaber
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CV580Freak
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:45 am

I have always supported GF, have done since the late 80's, but my last trip from DXB to LHR was a total nightmare and enough is enough. EY are good but the trip to DXB from AUH can be a pain, mind you saying that not quite as big a pain as DXB airport at the moment (same as DOH) I'll give EK a try next week and see how that is.
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:47 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):

Are the four frames in question GP powered?

Doesn't matter... early airframes can be converted from one to another. Its costly... but far less costly than having the airframes sit for six months trying to find a customer.

IIRC they have already been built - two of them are already flying i am sure. Bit late to change the powerplant surely? They would need to completely change the pylons etc. Thats major work - are you sure its no big deal?

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 8):
I have a sneaky suspicion these are being deferred to go to QF. Nothing to do with EY magically getting rights to Aus amazingly quickly whilst QR have been trying for years without success (or so i've heard) - but hey, whatever works.

Maybe... the lateness of the A380 has put a huge wrench in fleet update plans. It would be worth something for early delivery airframes...

Is there any news on the final customer? Heck, its possible this will "daisy chain" through the process allowing airbus to bring in certain deliveries. Note: I'm just speculating.

I'll be curious as to whom these really go to...
Lightsaber

I am sure its QF, but we shall see. I've not heard anything, but am doing QF's credit report update next week so will grill them about it when I speak to them. Doubt they will tell me, but its worth a go!  Smile
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
FlyingAY
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:29 pm

Call me crazy, but the first thing in my mind after I heard this was: BA can get a plane in time for London Olympics 2012...
 
jacobin777
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 12):
EY bought the development aircraft, they knew what they were buying from day 1. Even with the Abu Dhabi government behind them I wonder if cash is getting tight, hard to justify a A380 on the LHR run when they can't fill an A330.....

I thought it was the LGW route that was struggling? Their A346 is being put on the LHR run I think - an upgrade from the A345 on there in terms of capacity. Means nothing of course but every time ive flown EY to or from LHR they have been chock-a-block full up.

LGW-AUH ended around end of March..I was planning on flying SJC-DFW-LGW-AUH-KHI, which would have given me 3x773ER and 2x772ER on one trip.. biggrin , but the problem was LGW-AUH was being terminated on the return leg, so I wound up flying with AA/GF/EK instead.....

My in laws recently fly KHI-AUH-LHR (and back) and 1/2 the plane was empty on their A332's.....
"Up the Irons!"
 
zvezda
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:10 pm

Quoting DL767captain (Reply 7):
well what is VS going to do if they won't get theirs until 2013? Any chance they will begint o also look at the 748?

The fiduciary responsibility of due diligence for corporate officers make consideration of the 747-8 in such a case an absolute requirement. That doesn't mean they'll buy it, but they absolutely must evaluate it.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Why would re-wiring make a plane less structurally sound?

Re-wiring an aircraft (properly) would not make it structurally less sound.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
What is involved in the process?

No damage to the structure should occur during re-wiring. All wiring should be accessible.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
Is it like a D-Check sort of thing?

Re-wiring is just one part of a D-check. In a D-check, essentially everything is stripped out, including the wiring. Then the structure is inspected for corrosion and all the corrosion is repaired. Then new stuff, e.g. wiring, interiors, etc. are installed. The aircraft should, except for fatigue, be good as new.
 
iwok
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:27 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
My in laws recently fly KHI-AUH-LHR (and back) and 1/2 the plane was empty on their A332's.....

Several posters at a.net have mentioned that EK fills up the belly with cargo depending on the number of pax, so the 1/2 empty pax deck could mean a full cargo deck. It must be nice for the gulf airlines: lots of money, lots of cargo, lots of pax, lots of rulers with big egos which need to be satisfied. As an airline, what more you you want?  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
Re-wiring is just one part of a D-check. In a D-check, essentially everything is stripped out, including the wiring. Then the structure is inspected for corrosion and all the corrosion is repaired. Then new stuff, e.g. wiring, interiors, etc. are installed. The aircraft should, except for fatigue, be good as new.

Didn't know that much work was involved in a D check. Do you think the 380 will ever get to a D check before being scrapped? The wiring alone must be a nightmare...

iwok
 
zvezda
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:10 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 22):
Do you think the 380 will ever get to a D check before being scrapped?

I'm not very optimistic about WhaleJets enjoying long service lives but, yes, I do think many and probably most of them will be in service long enough to see their first D-check. I don't expect many to see a second D-check.
 
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PM
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:33 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 18):

IIRC they have already been built - two of them are already flying i am sure. Bit late to change the powerplant surely? They would need to completely change the pylons etc. Thats major work - are you sure its no big deal?

That was always the plan. All four of the developmental aircraft destined for EY are already flying. Three have RR and one has GP. The GP frame (#9) will be (or was going to be) converted to GP prior to delivery. I assume it could work the other way too.

(It's not common to switch engines but QR have an A332 with GE that was converted from PW.)
 
kappel
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 24):
That was always the plan. All four of the developmental aircraft destined for EY are already flying. Three have RR and one has GP. The GP frame (#9) will be (or was going to be) converted to GP prior to delivery. I assume it could work the other way too.

IIRC the GP frame has already flown with RR engines and was re-engined with the GP engines. They were supposed to be re-engined again before delivery to EY.

I do hope they take delivery of the a380's, if only because I recently bought a 1/400 EY a380!  Big grin
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Norcal773
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:46 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 9):
Doubt it. The 747-8 is a stunning looking plane, but performance wise I just dont think the 747-8I is all its cracked up to be

Tell that to LH

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 19):
Call me crazy, but the first thing in my mind after I heard this was: BA can get a plane in time for London Olympics 2012.

CRAZY.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
which would have given me 3x773ER and 2x772ER on one trip

Cough...cough...cough. But you ended up in GF's A332 huuh! Must have been your lucky day.  biggrin 
If you're going through hell, keep going
 
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PM
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:50 pm

Quoting Kappel (Reply 25):
IIRC the GP frame has already flown with RR engines and was re-engined with the GP engines.

I don't think so. Why would they do that?
 
kappel
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:17 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 27):
I don't think so. Why would they do that?

To expedite certification for the a380 and the GP engine was available later. That was the original plan, I don't know if they still did it.
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cedarjet
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:17 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
I thought it was the LGW route that was struggling?

I've used the LGW to AUH service to get to Iran, and every time, the plane was empty. The plane in question, btw, is the 777-300. Didn't make a lot of sense to me, using their biggest jet on such a marginal route. To clarify "empty", btw, I'm talking about 40 pax. Having a choice of dozens of empty rows to oneself. Don't like the way the windows line up with the seat? Move back one. Some dust scratches on the pane? Move back another one. Etc.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:19 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 24):
(It's not common to switch engines but QR have an A332 with GE that was converted from PW.)

Really? Blimey - I had no idea that was even possible. Anyone got any more info?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
jacobin777
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:29 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 22):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
My in laws recently fly KHI-AUH-LHR (and back) and 1/2 the plane was empty on their A332's.....

Several posters at a.net have mentioned that EK fills up the belly with cargo depending on the number of pax, so the 1/2 empty pax deck could mean a full cargo deck. It must be nice for the gulf airlines: lots of money, lots of cargo, lots of pax, lots of rulers with big egos which need to be satisfied. As an airline, what more you you want?  bigthumbsup 

Yah....but I don't know how much money cargo can be made up with only 40... Sad

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 29):
To clarify "empty", btw, I'm talking about 40 pax



Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 26):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20):
which would have given me 3x773ER and 2x772ER on one trip

Cough...cough...cough. But you ended up in GF's A332 huuh! Must have been your lucky day.  biggrin 

You just wait brother..you're going down... biggrin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 17):
I have always supported GF, have done since the late 80's, but my last trip from DXB to LHR was a total nightmare and enough is enough. EY are good but the trip to DXB from AUH can be a pain, mind you saying that not quite as big a pain as DXB airport at the moment (same as DOH) I'll give EK a try next week and see how that is.

You are right, going from AUH to DXB in this hot whether is just not worth it, did rather take EK and get it over with.
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CV580Freak
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:50 am

You are right there about the heat and that cuts out the benefit of AUH vs a mega airport like DXB. At least the 25 mile walk through DXB is air conditioned  Smile
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:11 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 33):
You are right there about the heat and that cuts out the benefit of AUH vs a mega airport like DXB. At least the 25 mile walk through DXB is air conditioned

Plus you get to shop around in the "worlds best duty free".  Silly

But in actuality getting a flight with EK from DXB-LHR can be quite a experience, it took quite a lot of effort on my part to get a seat back when I was travelling in January.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
CV580Freak
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:27 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 34):
getting a flight with EK from DXB-LHR can be quite a experience

Booked my September DXB/LHR today and already nearly fully booked  Smile
One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
 
David_itl
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:57 am

LHR-AUH in May 2007 = 20859 pax, up 5722. However, LGW-AUH in May 2006 saw 6467 pax, so effectively LON-AUH is down 745 pax. For comparison MAN-AUH = 8070 pax on 134 per flight (this is an increase of 2000 pax on May 2006).
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting CV580Freak (Reply 35):
Booked my September DXB/LHR today and already nearly fully booked

I still have to make a final decision and buy my september ticket, its gonna be tough.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 18):

IIRC they have already been built - two of them are already flying i am sure. Bit late to change the powerplant surely? They would need to completely change the pylons etc. Thats major work - are you sure its no big deal?

It is major work. But if you're ripping out wiring anyway (as you must in a prototype)... the pylon structural mount points do not change. Since the "used pylons" will find a quick home on another production airframe (customers are happy for the discount), its not as big of a cost delta as a very used airframe. Even when you take into account that regulators and a bunch of other components in the airframe must be changed (due to the differences, engine to engine, of the customer bleed air pressures), the cost is less than letting the airframe go unsold for six months...

Recall this is prior to delivery certification... after that, the costs really go up (the airframe must be re-certified with the new engines and that is a lot more work than the original delivery certification.)

Its also for a prototype where much of the original wiring must be replaced anyway (botched assembly, getting out TC's, etc.) I'm talking about that situation where the airframe already needs much of the work to be redone. Please understand that its a bigger deal once the interior is installed...

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 18):

I am sure its QF, but we shall see. I've not heard anything, but am doing QF's credit report update next week so will grill them about it when I speak to them. Doubt they will tell me, but its worth a go!

do tell!  bigthumbsup 

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):

The fiduciary responsibility of due diligence for corporate officers make consideration of the 747-8 in such a case an absolute requirement. That doesn't mean they'll buy it, but they absolutely must evaluate it.

 checkmark  and the 787, and the A350, etc.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
The aircraft should, except for fatigue, be good as new.

Pretty much. At a D-check all of the patched panels are replaced. However, corrosion progresses throughout an airframe life. Not to mention D-checks never get out all the added weight an airframe builds up... (e.g., spilled food, blue goo, etc.)

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 23):
I don't expect many to see a second D-check.

That depends on their use as a freighter... Airbus is going to be in a pickle due to the canceled A380F... with 1,500 engineers pulled off that work... its not going to be cheap to restart it.

Quoting Kappel (Reply 25):

IIRC the GP frame has already flown with RR engines and was re-engined with the GP engines. They were supposed to be re-engined again before delivery to EY.



Quoting PM (Reply 27):
I don't think so. Why would they do that?

They did. Airbus needed to get the A380 certified ASAP. So they ran an airframe through certification tests with RR engines to build the hours. Now they're running the GP's to certify them.

But I cannot help but notice how quickly the airframe was converted from RR to GP... Since Airbus created a plan to swap engines... you now have a certified series of procedures to do so. This cuts the cost of the swap tremendously. Rumors in the industry is that the airframe isn't as hard to swap engines as most other airframes. (Nor as easy as the 787's common pylon.)

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 30):

Really? Blimey - I had no idea that was even possible. Anyone got any more info?

Its a pain after entry into service. It all depends on how the cockpit communicates with the engines and how the customer bleed air off the engines is handled. Since Airbus uses computer commands to the engines, the process is easier than in older airframes. (The cockpit computers do not need to be swapped out.) Also, the wiring from the cockpit to the wings can go untouched.

You have to change the pylon, customer bleed plumbing (including regulators), layout of the fuel line to the engine (but there is always a common fitting to start from), and the nacelle. One reason in service engines are usually not changed is the cost of the nacelle. The other is re-certifying cost of the airframe. Ok, duty calls... I have to end this early.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 38):
They did. Airbus needed to get the A380 certified ASAP. So they ran an airframe through certification tests with RR engines to build the hours. Now they're running the GP's to certify them.

 wideeyed   Confused

(You have to be either very sure of yourself or very foolish to argue with Lightsaber (!) so let me just pose this as a question.)

You're saying that A380 MSN 009 (the only plane currently flying with GP) first took to the air with RR Trent 900s?
 
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RE: Etihad Defers A380 Deliveries

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting PM (Reply 39):
You're saying that A380 MSN 009 (the only plane currently flying with GP) first took to the air with RR Trent 900s?

Yes. Odd isn't it... but in order to get the airframe certified quickly, the business decision was made by Airbus to build it RR and convert it to GP. So there are procedures already in place for a RR to GP conversion on the A380!  wideeyed 

Now... recall this plan was done for the 2005 launch and that MSN 009 ended up flying with Trents twice as long as the original plan.

Part of the reason is this airframe is specially equipped for engine certification. Lots of added computers and wires to monitor the thrust makers.  Wink So when you realize that its a "test bed" airframe (that will go to a customer), it starts to make a little more sense. However, I'm not sure of the level of modifications... usually its extensive. But it might not be...

As to arguing with me... I make mistakes! I made a boo-boo at work that if I hadn't caught it would have had a prototype airframe sitting on the runway with a hole in the side... thankfully, yours truly caught his own mistake... (its not fun having to broadcast a big oops... luckily I have a few months to rewrite the process). Oh... this had gone through a review and passed too!  wideeyed  How? Let's just say some engineers get reviewed more than others... (but some know to re-read their work a month later with a fresh mind too...) Another of my mistakes was found by another engineer. (It basically summed up to if you remove a pressurized line and redesign it, don't forget that pressurized lines need brackets put back on to hold them in place before they flex under pressure... oops!) Yesterday wasn't my best day at work.  Wink Details... details...

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain

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