baghandling
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Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:47 am

The Rampsnake have been discussed here before, but this is the first videos on youtube.

To give a better understanding of the Rampsnake I have uploaded two videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdAsGtB6Xjk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nijhC8PR_ug

SAS now has 80 Rampsnakes.

If you ever come to Copenhagen, I will be more than happy to give you a demo.

Best Regards

Martin
 
JRadier
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:04 am

KLM has some as well, and ordered more!
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VgnAtl747
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:16 am

I bet they're not cheap...
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trekster
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:50 am

wow.

Have never heard of that type of loader before. Seems to make the work of a loader alot easier.

Quoting Baghandling (Thread starter):
I will be more than happy to give you a demo

May take you up on that someday
Where does the time go???
 
MDorBust
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:55 am

Wait, how did that SAS MD become a CO 757... then a CO 737... my head hurts.

[Edited 2007-06-20 23:56:06]
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F9Animal
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:01 am

Are you kidding me? Where in the hell was this snake when I needed it? It looks great, but it makes you wonder how well it takes the abuse of the ramp? It looks like it would be a pain to repair.

I am sure I would have had alot fewer injuries with that. And days of backpain would have dramatically decreased with that.
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6yjjk
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:02 am

"Rear loader" my ass - from watching you bag-smashers at work, I envisage it remaining stowed and bags being unceremoniously PLONKed on top of the thing! Big grin

In the first video, the control panel at around 1:10 was surprising - it looks a little fiddly, like it'd be tricky to operate with gloves on, for example. Is that a problem? All the other controls looked much beefier, big chunky switches and buttons. (Forgive me, I'm a usability geek.)

Fascinating bit of kit, though!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:10 am

Excellent  Smile




Lee
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AirTranTUS
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:30 am

It looks like it will make many rampers much happier. My only concern is adjusting it for every bag. That seems like it will take more time and there are more parts to break. They can still lift the bags for a small distance like that.
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N353SK
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:51 am

This thing eliminates one ramper from the bag loading equation - the guy who would normally crouch at the top of the belt and toss the bags to the guy who actually stacks the bags. I wonder how many hours of saved $9/hr ramper labor would be a breakeven point for this thing. Besides that, I would assume that each one of those little belts (at the top at least) has its own electric motor, which I would assume would be very prone to failure considering the way rampers treat GSE, not to mention how long airlines keep the stuff in use.
 
bravogolf
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:59 am

Baghandling

Do you operate the unit as shown in the PR clip? It does seem that the rear loader is slow.
 
TheCol
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:37 am

It's an interesting tool, to say the least. Though, I'd imagine a Rampsnake would turn into a maintenance pig after a few years of wear and tear. Heck, a standard belt loader is hard enough to maintain.
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LawnDart
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:32 pm

This thing would probably sell more if it wasn't cursed with such a stupid name...

Rampsnake?
 
phxplanes
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:20 pm

Looks pretty cool but it seems like it would take more time and effort positioning the thing then it would just a normal belt loader. It would be nice for large planes like the back bin of a 757 or for really heavy bags and cargo.
 
phxplanes
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:20 pm

Looks pretty cool but it seems like it would take more time and effort positioning the thing then it would just using a normal belt loader. It would be nice for large planes like the back bin of a 757 or for really heavy bags and cargo.
 
c0ex
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:47 pm

Very impressive videos.

Thanks

Although I think it would be a waste of time to have to move it so many times inside at 737-300/500/700

And as much as technology advances, I don't think it will continue to outsource humans, because these machines break so much and so often that the downtime on these things are gonna be a lot after a year in service.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:26 pm

Very good conveyor belt unit.Very good Video.Any site describing the unit in detail.
regds
MEL
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m404
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:24 pm

If it in fact does eliminate one ramper position our airline would like it but it looks like it would take a full time maintenance crew to run it. Since that function is again an out sourced item that is sorely lacking I'm not sure of the benefits. However, of late it has become apparent to management that they cannot continue with the back and shoulder injuries we have now. One cure was massively forcing older rampers out and a pay scale for newer ones that promoted a high (undesirably) turn over rate to another job. This, combined with less insurance coverage may help the bottom line except for the mentioned ridiculous turnover rate. Perhaps it's finally time for something human and bag friendly. What a concept!
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clipperno1
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:55 pm

Baghandling, very interesting concept.

A few questions ....

What is the width of the belt?
Can it be used to load standard 120x80cm/48x30in pallets into a bulk loading freighters? (Metro, An26, ATR etc)
What is the weight restriction per piece?
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RDUDDJI
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Baghandling (Thread starter):
If you ever come to Copenhagen, I will be more than happy to give you a demo.

I have a DVD from Rampsnake on this thing. I think we are even testing one at an "undisclosed" station here in the U.S...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 19):
I have a DVD from Rampsnake on this thing. I think we are even testing one at an "undisclosed" station here in the U.S...

I know that some of the big once has tried it.

[Edited 2007-06-21 20:38:54]
 
baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:46 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 4):
Wait, how did that SAS MD become a CO 757... then a CO 737... my head hurts.

I understand that  Smile

The video is partly shut in the USA and in Copenhagen. Then FMC  stirthepot  it, thats why  Big grin
 
baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting 6YJJK (Reply 6):
In the first video, the control panel at around 1:10 was surprising - it looks a little fiddly, like it'd be tricky to operate with gloves on, for example. Is that a problem? All the other controls looked much beefier, big chunky switches and buttons.

The control panel is not that small, everything on the Rampsnake is designed to be operated with big gloves.
 
eatmybologna
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:35 am

When I first read the heading, I thought that rampers used trained snakes to send into the bellies of the airplane and catch rodents.

Many do I feel stupid right about now. LOL
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malaysia
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Baghandling (Reply 20):
I know that some of the big once has tried it.

DELTA tried it. I beleive. But start complaining about 757 operators that never opted for the Telescopic or Magic Carpet Bins.
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Leezyjet
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:26 am

Great invention, and looks like it makes the loading process easier, but can you imagine that being used on an FR flight for example ?. There is no way they would make their 25min t/a times with that thing. By the time it was in position and up and running a decent loading team could have most of the holds emptied already.

Seems like it would be useful for flights with long turn times, but on tight/short turns it would be quicker to do it the old fashioned way.

 Smile
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mayhem
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:47 am

There should exist a more basic version of this ramp snake. As the receiving ends require too much shifting, it's a great idea to let a conveyor belt run into the hold (and thus requiring one worker less) but i have my doubts on the speed...

Do you use it for every plane? Or does it depend on the destination? As it seems that for heavy loaded charters the use seems way more appropriate than the business routes...

Also the Total Cost of Ownership won't be low either.. It saves one man, and a lot of back injuries, but if the pure economics don't work out, the widespread use will stay away...
 
JRadier
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:58 am

Remember guys, these video's are promotional, so it will go at a slow pace and according to ideal conditions, just to show the concept. If you use it in real life it will be a lot quicker.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
JayDub
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:14 am

When did rampers become pansies?
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pdxcof9
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:17 am

Can the "snake" part make it all the way down a pit of a 738 or 752? It doesn't seem like it would be long enough.
Still an interesting piece of equipment. Seems like it would take more time than save time. Since the airline industry is all about on time performance.
Magic carpet bins are about the best thing invented.  Smile
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JRadier
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:13 pm

According to KLM (Ground Services internal publication) the Rampsnake makes the CLS (Cargo Loading System) obsolete so that can be removed. This causes a reduction in maintenance and weight, the latter reducing fuelburn.

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 29):
Can the "snake" part make it all the way down a pit of a 738 or 752?

From the photo's I have seen it does make it all the way into the 738 pits, and KLM will be using them for the NW 752's as well, so I guess it works.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
mayhem
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:26 pm

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 29):
Magic carpet bins are about the best thing invented.

But if they go out of work, and you don't have a rampsnake you have to drag the bags all the way to the door, whereas in other holds you can easily slide them...
 
baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 29):
Can the "snake" part make it all the way down a pit of a 738 or 752?

It goes 8 meter in, so it does 739 and 757-200. The only one that is too long is the 757-300 in compartment 2, here you need to do the first stack by hand.

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 29):
Seems like it would take more time than save time. Since the airline industry is all about on time performance.

It takes longer to set up than a belt loader, but the time is easily gained by faster loading and unloading, because you do not have to lift the bags anymore, you only have to guide the bags into the right position.
 
JRadier
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:53 pm

I'm really getting interested to see this works in real life and how it compares to the old style. Nice topic for my studies (logistics)
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HAWK21M
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Baghandling (Reply 32):
It goes 8 meter in, so it does 739 and 757-200. The only one that is too long is the 757-300 in compartment 2, here you need to do the first stack by hand

On our Freighters we use the In built Bulk cargo loading system [magic carpet].
regds
MEL
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baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 34):
On our Freighters we use the In built Bulk cargo loading system [magic carpet].
regds

The magic (sliding) carpet is better than nothing, but you still have to lift everything.
 
B6ramprat
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:16 am

You would need some time to use that thing. Its a great device though but with turn times of 40 mins on our west coast flights and 30 mins on our E 190 flights I thing our run of the mill belt loaders do just fine. Those things have to be really expensive too. Theres no way my company would but those for us. We killl the equipment we have now. All in all. Great product but just don't see at least my company using it. Make the turns alittle longer however and then we'd be in business.
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baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting B6ramprat (Reply 36):
Its a great device though but with turn times of 40 mins on our west coast flights and 30 mins on our E 190 flights I thing our run of the mill belt loaders do just fine.

The A320 is one of the best aircrafts to use the snake on and turning it in 40 mins would be a lot easier with the snake.
 
TUGMASTER
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:21 am

Hello all,

Nice looking piece of kit, however, i share the concerns of some of you guys here....

Also, FMC dvd's video's are notorius for their lack of continuity.....

just a few examples....

The 3 meter stop was all BS,... they just stopped the video for a couple of seconds...
The ever changig airline CO to SK and bac to CO....
and i've saved the best till last...

When the SK ramp rat is offloading the bags, first it's the yellow suitcase followed by the red holdall....

but by the time it's reached the guy stacking the ranch wagon, the red holdall was first on, followed by the yellow suitcase.

Classic FMC training dvd.

rgds

TUGMASTER
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting Baghandling (Reply 35):
The magic (sliding) carpet is better than nothing, but you still have to lift everything

It helps in stacking
And the Normal Conveyor belt assists in Loading/Off loading.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Mon Jun 25, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting BravoGolf (Reply 10):
Do you operate the unit as shown in the PR clip? It does seem that the rear loader is slow.

Yes thats the way I use it, I agree it looks slow, but it is not!!!
 
B6ramprat
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:12 am

I don't know. I really can't see using this thing. The labor intensive way just seems to do the trick for me but hey, to each is own. I mean, you got 180 bags coming off and 210 coming on an A320, I really can't see using this thing and doing the turn in 40 mins.
Racecar spelled backwards spells Racecar
 
OGGFBORefueler
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:25 am

Cool Technology!

Aloha!
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jamesbuk
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Mon Jun 25, 2007 8:51 am

Very cool! But wouldnt it me more energy efficient not to move the end around in the hold? just leave it on the floor and put the bags on top of it? because that'd take a hell of alot more time moving that thing around all the time.

Rgds --James--
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baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting ClipperNo1 (Reply 18):
Can it be used to load standard 120x80cm/48x30in pallets into a bulk loading freighters? (Metro, An26, ATR etc)
What is the weight restriction per piece?

It can load pallets, but it is not very good at it. The max weight is 80 kg which is the max load we are allowed to lift in CPH.

I have not tried the Metro and An26, but it can do the ATR from the front left door.
 
ChicagoFlyer
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Tue Jun 26, 2007 4:35 am

Interesting videos. Here is some information about Rampsnake that I know of--judge for yourselves. First, its advantages, then analysis.

* Load and unload is a lot faster--this is clearly an example of "work smarter not harder"
* Rampers do not need to exert so much effort lifting bags and therefore get injured less. If you are a ramp rat, you would welcome Rampsnake to your gate no ifs or buts.
* Bags are thrown around a lot less, means less damage to the aircraft and the bag.
* Some aircraft (757, A320) have a nesting "tray" system in the belly to move the bags around. Since the RampSnake extends into the belly of the plane, you can get rid of the nesting system. This saves you a few hundred lbs of weight and therefore fuel

The quicker loading/unloading of bags is good but (depending on the operation) may not help turns if it takes more to load and unload the passengers--it all depends if the bottleneck is above or below the wing. By far the biggest financial impact would be the weight/fuel savings. But of course, you cannot take the nesting system out of the plane unless ALL stations where the plane flies have Rampsnakes. The darned things are incredibly expensive (say $100K-$150K more than a regular bag loader), and it would not make financial sense considering that in addition to direct costs you need to take the plane out of service to take the nesting system out, put some lighter replacement kit back in, and potentially re-certify the whole plane.

This leaves us with injury avoidance. it is not easy to quantify; however, taking care of workers is much more important for European airlines (especially based in 'more progressive' countries like the Scandinavian ones) and they are perfectly willing to make investment that serves their people, rather than the bottom line (and for SAS in particular, they need labor peace), plus the govt may well mandate something like this pretty soon. The cheaper the labor, or the more company-friendly the laws in a given country are, the less likely it is that we'll see RampSnakes in their present form.

I predict that FMC's competitors will come up with a cheaper and less 'loaded' version of the tool, which will come closer to mass acceptance.

Incidentally, were the CO planes in CPH as well, or is CO actually using those in their US operation?
 
baghandling
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 45):
plus the govt may well mandate something like this pretty soon.

The developing of Rampsnake is started because the government told us, that we had to have some equipment that could take away the hard work. If not, then we were facing a rule saying, that we would only be allowed to lift 1.500 kg inside the aircraft or 3.000 kg outside pr day!!! That would mean a working day of about one hour. The ramp rats were happy Big grin, but out management did not like that idea  Angry

Therefor we started a project and that ended up with developing of the Rampsnake.
 
JRadier
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:38 am

To kick this thread back into activity.

I just came back from Copenhagen where I met up with Martin (Baghandling) and colleauges to get some more insight in the rampsnake. I'm a logistics student looking to get into aviation, so this was right up my alley. First of all I would like to thank them for the great day! I'll just give a small runthrough, more to follow later.

They showed me the rampsnake in operation with a wooden model of an aircraft belly (737, A320 and MD-80) and let me try everthing myself, and I must say, it is as easy, fast and good as they say it is. The rampsnake is very easy to master, and it's quite logical in layout (apart from some small things). For those who know me, I'm a tall guy, and not very strong, so the bin of a 737 isn't exactly heaven for me, let alone with bags of 20kgs. I've never loaded an aircraft before either, but with the rampsnake even I could make a pretty ok stack, and only with a bit of pushing and pulling. Didn't lift a thing! Martin showed me a bit of high speed loading (I believe it wasn't even at full speed yet), and I doubt you could do it faster manually.

I'll get you all some more details tomorrow (or the day after that).

Jurgen
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HAWK21M
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RE: Video: Rampsnake In Use

Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:46 pm

Do they have a rep in India.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)