Impacto
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Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:01 am

Being Delta's second largest hub, Its quite surprising to know that the only International flights to and from Salt Lake City are to Canada and Mexico. What is even more amazing is that not a single International carrier serves the airport. What might be the reason for this? I am just curious because I was there last April for a connecting flight and the airport to me seems worthy of Intercontinental services due to its size and number of passengers.
 
YULYMX
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:08 am

SLC is not known worldwide nobody knows SLC... but Las Vegas, LA, SFO...  Smile

HNL, one day maybe DL will fly to London
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 1):
SLC is not known worldwide nobody knows SLC...

Might the same be said for Memphis? KLM sure markets MEM hard, and the result seems to be a healthy percentage of Europeans on the flight. If AF/DL wished to do the same, they could probably pull it off.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
JRDC930
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
If AF/DL wished to do the same, they could probably pull it off.

Agreed, but i dont think there would be any tourist traffic except during winter, there is literaly nothing in SLC to atract tourists during the summer months, except heat, desert and more desert.
U.S. Legacy carriers,STILL leaders in lowering industry standards...
 
Venezuela747
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:10 am

I feel this way, Delta is to SLC as United is to Denver, or similar. neither of them seem to be really looking into international service, but mostly domestic and like billion daily flights to their other international hubs ORD/ATL corresponding.
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deltairlines
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:18 am

A big part of it is that there's minimal O&D between SLC and Europe. A lot easier for Delta to route SLC passengers over hubs in JFK, CVG and ATL (and to a lesser extent, BOS, PHL, IAD, ORD, DTW, etc. where Delta planes can connect to Air France or Alitalia planes).
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 am

This has been a debate on a.net for sometime about how fit SLC is for intercontinental service. SLC might be DL's #2 hub now, but of all it's hubs and focus operations market wise it is the smallest. The greater Wasatch Front which is SLC's principle catchment area is home to roughly 2.1 million people, which makes it small for a hub of the proportion that it is in the DL network. While it is growing, it isn't growing as quickly as nearby PHX or LAS. Also nearby DEN is significantly larger. Hence the label of "Podunk," even though it is substantially larger than nearby BOI. Perhaps the greatest surprise beyond being the #2 hub for DL is that it is home to an NBA team (Utah Jazz). SLC has good access to many of the interior wests national parks from Yellowstone/Grand Teton to the north to Zion, Bryce Canyon, Arches and Canyonlands to the south, and can actually enable tourists from Europe to more readily visit these parks with an RV rental than say from LAX or LAS if you include the northern parks in the mix for a two week getaway. SLC also managed to host the 2002 Winter Olympic Games which was a real coup for them, and actually did make them more known than some of the above posts seam to elude to. Hosting the Winter Olympics is something that DEN rejected back in the early 1970s, something they now regret. But probably the big knock against SLC is the dominance of the Mormon religion and how their discouragement of liquor and subsequent alcoholic beverage control laws make partying and having a good time seemingly more difficult. Utah has some of the strictest liquor control laws in the U.S. that do indeed rival if not exceed that in many southern states and Texas counties.
Could SLC support service to Europe such as LGW, CDG or even FRA or AMS? Always a good discussion on a.net!

[Edited 2007-06-21 04:23:21]
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EnviroTO
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 1):
SLC is not known worldwide nobody knows SLC.

Seeing as they had the Olympics I'm going to say you are incorrect. Worldwide many people know SLC. The bigger issue is population, tourism, and ethnicity. Other cities are larger, other cities have a larger year long tourist draw, and other cities have a larger population with families overseas.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:52 am

to be honest there is no runway long enough for such service without severe restrictions so it wont be possible for a few years

western wanted to start service to london at one time and delta will start service to london and cdg once the runway is long enough. the ceo of delta spoke about this topic recently he said the flights to europe from slc were a few years off. dl needs an available aircraft and a long enough runway which right now it has neither available


I think that will be it for europe that will be the only two flights for a while. Remember the SLC area is growing at a very fast rate, the third fastest growing state in the country according to a realtors estimate i saw and only signs of more faster growth fahead. The census data also shows about the same. The future may hold more potential routes , but we will have to see thats not for a while.

Remember alot of the reason dl is investing so much in SLC is for the FUTURE they know how fast SLC is growing and they dont want to loose it to more competition and how valuable it will be in the future and SLC already makes DL money now which is what really matters so its a cheap cost effective (money making) place to connect people thru

The SLC airport is already twice as large as say montreal 11 million passengers versus 22 million with plenty of connection opportunities and good o&d to both london and paris especially with the AF connections at CDG
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 10):
A big part of it is that there's minimal O&D between SLC and Europe. A lot easier for Delta to route SLC passengers over hubs in JFK, CVG and ATL (and to a lesser extent, BOS, PHL, IAD, ORD, DTW, etc. where Delta planes can connect to Air France or Alitalia planes).

But if you compare to NW in MEM again, there are far more folks that DL could pick up at SLC who would either have to double connect to fly Skyteam or make a relatively inconvenient connection in ATL. From SMF, for instance, connecting over ATL to CDG adds 500 miles to a trip through ORD, 400 to a trip through LAX, and 300 to a trip through JFK.
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JTR
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:19 pm

Easy answer: No demand. Take a look at the companies based in SLC and you'll see there's really no reason for intercontinental travel.
 
747fan
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:36 pm

Delta could probably make it work with at least a 5X weekly 763ER flight to CDG. There are quite a few connecting opportunities at SLC to the interior west (PHX, BOI, DEN, LAS, RNO,etc.) as well as a possibility for sizeable traffic to the surrounding ski slopes and national parks. Air France offers numerous connections out of CDG to not only Europe but Africa and even the Middle East, Indian, and Asia. Of course Paris is a quite large O&D market that could attract passengers from the interior west. Overall, the large O&D market in Paris as well as the connections at either end (and skiing/national parks near SLC) should be able to make at least a 5X weekly DL 763 work.  twocents 
 
pdxcof9
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:41 pm

SLC has a little smaller metro population than PDX yet PDX gets a LH and NW long haul flights. And SLC is a delta hub so we'd get connecting pax.

Once the city extends the runway we'll get some better flights in the future. Maybe with one of the 787s delta will order.  Smile
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MAH4546
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:50 pm

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 18):
SLC has a little smaller metro population than PDX yet PDX gets a LH and NW long haul flights. And SLC is a delta hub so we'd get connecting pax.

A little smaller? Portland has over 2.1M residents, Salt Lake City barely has over 1,000,000. Portland is more than double the size.
a.
 
DLOnur
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:03 pm

SLC might get one international in the near future (probably CDG or LGW).

LAX is going to be the real concentration for DL international expansion in the near future.

Both SLC and CVG have been "right-sized" according to Whitehurst and will continue to be "smaller" hubs mainly (though CVG will continue to be a LGW/CDG gateway).

ATL/JFK/LAX are going to be serious concentration points for DL's future international expansion. DL eventually wants to have a 60%/40% mix for domestic/international flight ratios and revenue flow. SLC does not fit this bill.

Cheers.
-onur
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 14):
Both slc and CVG have been "right-sized" according to Whitehurst and will continue to be "smaller" hubs mainly (though CVG will continue to be a LGW/CDG gateway).

what are you talking about? cvg has been downsized that is correct but dl keeps adding flights to slc and wants to continue to do so, i think dl at slc is larger than ever. The last thing dl is doing is downsizing at SLC granted alot of the growth has come at cvgs expense unfortunately. The salt lake city metro area is growing so fast the last thing dl is dowing is downsizing its protecting slc for the future

SLC is deltas second largest hub it has more mainline, passengers than any hub but ATL of course which will always keep the title
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:21 pm

a SLC-CDG flight may one day happen. There si debate as to whether it should be DL or AF and would a 763 have problems in the summer months taking off with full cargo and full pax. I know UA had problems with DEN-FRA a the 777 in the summer.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 12):
SLC has a little smaller metro population than PDX yet PDX gets a LH and NW long haul flights.

SLC gets compared to both PDX and SMF for population quite frequently, but SLC must include the entire Wasatch Front from Ogden to Provo to get those numbers and the distance from say Vancouver, WA to Salem, OR is much shorter along I-5 than it is along I-15 from Weber County down through Utah County, so hence the comment from MAH4546 that PDX is twice the size even though he only included the figure for Salt Lake County (many will only include the figure for Salt Lake City proper which is under 180,000!). Probably what gives people the greatest impression that SLC is Podunk, is the attitude towards municipality population since most people in Utah don't like anything larger than say 20,000. The way the Census Bureau has set up the MSA for SLC doesn't help its cause much either.

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 15):
The last thing dl is doing is downsizing at SLC granted alot of the growth has come at cvgs expense unfortunately.

Most of it has come due to the demise of the DFW hub. SLC was the single biggest beneficiary of DL de-hubbing DFW.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 14):
LAX is going to be the real concentration for DL international expansion in the near future.

I see LAX being very important for DL in expansion into Asia and the Far East, but I doubt they will be much of a player for DL flights to Europe. ATL and JFK for example will get all of the slots DL might get into LHR for example. I don't see LAX getting a DL LHR slot.

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 8):
The SLC airport is already twice as large as say montreal 11 million passengers versus 22 million with plenty of connection opportunities and good o&d to both london and paris especially with the AF connections at CDG

I don't think comparing SLC to YUL or even YYC is a very good comparison for International flights. Keep in mind that percentage wise twice as many Canadians possess passports when compared to their North American counterparts south of the 49th. Just a simple fact, a Canadian is twice as likely to get onto an intercontinental flight as an American. Hence the reason airports such as YYC and YEG get service from BA and LH rather than SLC.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 14):
DL eventually wants to have a 60%/40% mix for domestic/international flight ratios and revenue flow. SLC does not fit this bill.

I think it would be better stated that it is an eventuality rather than not fitting the bill.

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 12):
Once the city extends the runway we'll get some better flights in the future. Maybe with one of the 787s delta will order.

SLC and Mayor Rocky Anderson have been reluctant to sink a large chunk of money into the airport for the time being since the atmosphere of consolidation has hung over the industry as a whole until now. SLC does have plans to extend runway 34R-16L to about 15,000' which could easily accommodate any intercontinental service on a 763ER, 772LR or ER or an A330 or A340. An industry consolidation would likely send the hub DL has to DEN, PHX or LAS as I've asserted in other threads.
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WJ
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:21 am

I was at SLC the day the olympics ended and it was nice to have that international feel even if only for one day, coming to pick up the athletes:
LOT 763
SR 340
KLM 744
AUSTRIAN 763
LH 744
JAL 744
AZ 763
BA 744
SK 763
146,727,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739,742,743,744,752,753,762,763,764,772,300,310,319,320,321,330,343,DC9,D10,MD11,M80,E17
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting WJ (Reply 18):
I was at SLC the day the olympics ended and it was nice to have that international feel even if only for one day, coming to pick up the athletes:
LOT 763
SR 340
KLM 744
AUSTRIAN 763
LH 744
JAL 744
AZ 763
BA 744
SK 763

Occasionally it does happen:

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Photo © Devin B.
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Brett B. Despain

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LAXspotter
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:52 am

quote=Venezuela747,reply=4]I feel this way, Delta is to SLC as United is to Denver, or similar.[/quote]
Quite a good comparison, sounds about right, althought Denver does get LH and BA.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
But probably the big knock against SLC is the dominance of the Mormon religion and how their discouragement of liquor and subsequent alcoholic beverage control

Its best to have it that way IMO
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
davescj
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:17 am

DL was never a big player in Asia, and i can't see SLC making it happen.......I could see Europe more easily with pushing for eco - tourism in the states and DL's Mexico connections.....
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Davescj (Reply 21):
DL was never a big player in Asia, and i can't see SLC making it happen.......

LAX, JFK as well as ATL will play a pivotal role in DL's international expansion, LAX offering some additional Pacific Rim flights by a U.S. flag carrier that have been discussed in several threads. SLC will primarily be a western North America domestic connection hub with offerings to Canada (YVR, YYC & YEG especially) as well as Mexico (SJD, MZT, PVR & MEX) and perhaps increasingly to the Caribbean (CUN, CZM...possibly other seasonal offerings in the years ahead). Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean flights from domestic hubs like SLC also factor into the desired 60%/40% DL executives wish to achieve in revenue generation from domestic and international service. It will be interesting to see if DL does indeed do a Europe experiment form SLC to CDG or LGW. I think at the least or most it is an eventuality.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
pdxcof9
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
A little smaller? Portland has over 2.1M residents, Salt Lake City barely has over 1,000,000. Portland is more than double the size.

The Wasatch Front has a population of over 2.1 million. Yeah SL county has just over a million but portland metro area has like 4 counties included in its figure. Plus it's a DL hub. I think they can pull off a Europe flight once they get the equipment and the runway extended.
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DLOnur
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 15):

I'm not disagreeing with you regarding SLC. SLC is important for DL, but it is not important for DL in the transformation that Whitehurst/Bastian and Grinstein have talked about and instituted system-wide. SLC will never be a major international airport--that is pretty accepted wisdom at DL.

LAX will indeed be an important player because DL wants an Asian gateway--a real one. LAX-PEK/LAX-HKG/LAX-SYD are not out of the question if you ask me. In fact, while ATL to China will probably occur next year (city to be determined), I do feel that LAX is going to fit into a more long range program with the integration of the 777's next year as well as the future order with Boeing or Airbus (the latter, I have a hard time accepting as a real alternative considering DL's fleet make up).

While SLC wil be a big domestic hub, it will never be an international hub.

JFK (unfortunately), ATL and LAX are where I am putting my bets.

Cheers.
-onur
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timz
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 8):
there is no runway long enough for such service without severe restrictions

Has Delta said so? 12000 ft means "severe" payload reduction for a 763 or a 777?
 
deltadc9
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):
Might the same be said for Memphis?

The home of Elvis? Not a good example, they see people from all over the world year round at Graceland.

Quoting JTR (Reply 10):
Easy answer: No demand. Take a look at the companies based in SLC and you'll see there's really no reason for intercontinental travel.

Not accurate. We have a huge site in Sandy that has people traveling internationally every day. There are a lot of major corporations in Utah, which is why we are there, being the biggest business process outsourcing company in the world.

I think there are just too many other options for international flights, every city cant offer them.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
Salt Lake City barely has over 1,000,000.

Actually SLC population is about 180,000. The Metro area is about 1 million.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SL

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:20 am

Tourism in SLC reaches it's peak in the winter. However, honestly, SLC doesn't have TOO much to offer. It's a very dead city. I currently study in SLC, and try to get out of there every spare moment I have. Thankfully I don't have to be there during the summer, and fly out back to California on weekends during the study year.
The only possible traffic that SLC can support on international flights is connecting. SLC will be great as a connection from Western DL cities such as LAX, SFO, SEA and such on flights to say London and Paris. I'm sure in the future they can pull it off. However, SLC on it's own will not handle anything. Not too many attractions for a relatively big city.

Aeroflot777

P.S.

That is one great photo! I have NO idea Aeroflot chartered a flight to SLC. My heart stopped for a second when I saw that photo. There is just something about Aeroflot and their 777s that makes me drool!  Wink
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting JTR (Reply 10):
Easy answer: No demand.

Not really... just not sufficient yield in existent demand relative to using ATL/JFK/etc as the gateway.

Quoting Davescj (Reply 21):
DL was never a big player in Asia

Relative to whom?
...historical direct service from the mainland to NRT, NGO, FUK, SEL, TPE, BKK, TLV, HKG, MAA, BOM, etc is more than most N.American carriers can boast, past or present.

Quoting Timz (Reply 25):
12000 ft means "severe" payload reduction for a 763

at 4200ft+ elevation, the case can indeed be made
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 24):
DL wants an Asian gateway--a real one. LAX-PEK/LAX-HKG

I really don't see DL or any U.S. flag dong LAX-PEK/PVG until later in the next decade. Even though slots are likely to come at faster intervals to China, the big three Chinese carriers have both LAX and JFK covered quite well. I don't think US-DOT will be very quick to award a slot to DL, CO, AA, US, NW or UA from either of these two big U.S.A. world gateway airports on either coast until probably after 2015. Look for BOS or SEA to get a flight from a U.S. flag carrier after places like ATL, DFW or ORD get in the mix since both communities are in the top tier for Chinese-Americans or Chinese residents living in America. Look for DL to start service from LAX to NRT (when they can get another slot), ICN, TPE, SIN, HKG, SYD (perhaps ATL prior), and based on the continued success to India with JFK-BOM, an LAX-BOM would not surprise me when an additional 772LR come on line or possibly LAX-DEL. All said DL's success in building LAX-Asia up is highly dependant upon its feed into LAX especially from their SLC hub.

Quoting Timz (Reply 25):
Has Delta said so? 12000 ft means "severe" payload reduction for a 763 or a 777?

When you deal even with daytime temperatures as we have today where it is in the high-90s-F (35+ C), a fully laden 763ER or 772ER/LR will face a very short 12,000' runway at SLC for such a flight. This is a technical issue that DL or any carrier wishing to utilize long-haul flights into and out of SLC must deal with at this time until 34R-16L can be extended to 15,000.'

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 20):
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 6):
But probably the big knock against SLC is the dominance of the Mormon religion and how their discouragement of liquor and subsequent alcoholic beverage control

Its best to have it that way IMO

This issue is best addressed in another thread in another forum. But it is a huge degrading perception for SLC to deal with, even though NM and ABQ's dealings with HP+US have taken the spotlight from them in this part of the country! LOL!  laughing 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 26):
Actually SLC population is about 180,000. The Metro area is about 1 million.

As I eluded to in my post (#17) above, the city itself is small but the catchment area is fairly large since SLC International is the only airport with commercial service. The Wasatch Front is well over 2.1 million now, and until PVU or OGD offer commercial service SLC will be it.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 27):
I have NO idea Aeroflot chartered a flight to SLC. My heart stopped for a second when I saw that photo. There is just something about Aeroflot and their 777s that makes me drool!

Your user name gives you away!  laughing 

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 28):
Not really... just not sufficient yield in existent demand relative to using ATL/JFK/etc as the gateway.

 checkmark  Probably the best explanation in so few words!  wink  Which is why I argued SLC really isn't the great gateway to Hawaii in another thread a couple of weeks ago.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
timz
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 29):
daytime temperatures as we have today where it is in the high-90s-F

Has Delta said their Europe nonstop must be able to leave mid-day?

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 29):
a fully laden 763ER or 772ER/LR

Sure, at MTOW 12000 ft wouldn't be enough. Question is, would it usually be enough for a takeoff at some reasonable weight (maybe 380,000 lb for a 763ER?) at the time they wanted to leave.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 31):
Has Delta said their Europe nonstop must be able to leave mid-day?

Not sure what time they would want such a flight to leave SLC for LGW or CDG, but I highly doubt it would be the middle of the night.

Quoting Timz (Reply 31):
Sure, at MTOW 12000 ft wouldn't be enough. Question is, would it usually be enough for a takeoff at some reasonable weight (maybe 380,000 lb for a 763ER?) at the time they wanted to leave.

If they want to make money on such a flight, they will likely be very dependant upon how much cargo they can also haul, and they will need a full load of fuel to do such a flight as well.
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 27):
SLC will be great as a connection from Western DL cities such as LAX, SFO, SEA and such on flights to say London and Paris. I'm sure in the future they can pull it off.

All of which have their own nonstops to both London and Paris. The only people who would be willing to connect in SLC are those who are looking for rock-bottom fares, and rock-bottom fares don't make a long-haul flight profitable. And all of the other decent-sized cities in the West can just as easily connect in ATL, JFK, CVG, or one of the cities mentioned above.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
A little smaller? Portland has over 2.1M residents, Salt Lake City barely has over 1,000,000. Portland is more than double the size.

And Portland is very sophisticated for a city of its size, with a diverse population, a relatively strong business market (compared to say SLC, SMF, or SAN), is somewhat of a tourist destination, and has an educated population that wants to travel internationally. Not saying those other cities don't have any of these things, but Portland is just a different city than the others. Portland has a different mix of the above traits, meaning that it can better support international traffic with O&D pax that say a SLC or SMF couldn't.
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 33):
All of which have their own nonstops to both London and Paris. The only people who would be willing to connect in SLC are those who are looking for rock-bottom fares, and rock-bottom fares don't make a long-haul flight profitable. And all of the other decent-sized cities in the West can just as easily connect in ATL, JFK, CVG, or one of the cities mentioned above.

Of course they do, but people still fly to London and Paris through connecting flights. Similarly they easily can use SLC. I'd gladly fly SFO-SLC-CDG to avoid both JFK and ATL. It's all about preference!

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JRDC930
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 27):
SLC doesn't have TOO much to offer. It's a very dead city. I currently study in SLC, and try to get out of there every spare moment I have. Thankfully I don't have to be there during the summer, and fly out back to California on weekends during the study year.

Agreed SLC has absolutely no attractions that i can think of, since i went to study there as well. I hated my town in CA, but it is nice to get back home to the LA area where there is much more to do. A lot of SLC's traffic is connecting, not too many people end their trip at SLC. Tourism is the only thing that i could see warranting a flight, or perhaps connections from LA, but there is NO TOURISM, the local parks are quite far away and youve got to be into the whole outdoor scene for that. Im not sure but i think Europeans are more into visiting attractions than deserts. I have no doubt they can support one flight, but thats about it, CDG or LHR. SLC is a boring place, great climate but nothing to do.
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pdxcof9
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:31 am

All y'all are boring. SL is a great place to live!!! And there is plenty of things to do.
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 35):
SLC is a boring place, great climate but nothing to do.

Spot on! Nothing else to add?

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 36):
All y'all are boring. SL is a great place to live!!! And there is plenty of things to do.

When I go back to college in August please tell me some interesting things, cause I think I'll be bored yet again for an entire school year. Any help is appreciated. I was there for 4 months, and did nothing bu study, work and sleep. Occasional trip out to the movie theater.

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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting Pdxcof9 (Reply 36):
All y'all are boring. SL is a great place to live!!! And there is plenty of things to do.

Even the ski crowds all point towards Colorado since as I pointed out in my posts, Utah has very strict liquor control laws that at the very least gives people the perception that it is hard to get a drink or find a fun place, even though Park City is full of them if you know where to look.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 37):
When I go back to college in August please tell me some interesting things, cause I think I'll be bored yet again for an entire school year. Any help is appreciated. I was there for 4 months, and did nothing bu study, work and sleep. Occasional trip out to the movie theater.

Just hang out along frat row just north of the University of Utah and a good party can be found. who knows you might even find Mayor Rocky Anderson there!  biggrin  Or go down to Port-Of-Call along 4th South and West Temple.  drunk 

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 35):
A lot of SLC's traffic is connecting, not too many people end their trip at SLC.

Actually about half of the annual passengers at the SLC airport are O&D. SLC's numbers for O&D are about where they are at PDX, 11-12 million.

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 35):
Tourism is the only thing that i could see warranting a flight, or perhaps connections from LA, but there is NO TOURISM, the local parks are quite far away and youve got to be into the whole outdoor scene for that. Im not sure but i think Europeans are more into visiting attractions than deserts. I have no doubt they can support one flight, but thats about it, CDG or LHR. SLC is a boring place, great climate but nothing to do.

Actually there are many European tourists that go to Zion's, Bryce, Arches and Canyonlands. Many of them rent motor-homes out of LAX or LAS. There are also a fair number of them that can be found up at Yellowstone or Grand Teton who come into DEN and likewise rent RV's (some fly directly up to Jackson Hole or rent RV's at SEA and catch Mount Rainer or Glacier). SLC could develop a niche for both sets of parks that could give them the needed O&D to justify a CDG or LGW flight (DL would never waste an LHR slot on SLC--although BA could jump in and give it a shot).
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 33):
The only people who would be willing to connect in SLC are those who are looking for rock-bottom fares, and rock-bottom fares don't make a long-haul flight profitable.

However, you are ignoring the possibility for connections beyond CDG, which would really be the bread and butter of the flight.
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 38):
SLC could develop a niche for both sets of parks that could give them the needed O&D to justify a CDG or LGW flight (DL would never waste an LHR slot on SLC--although BA could jump in and give it a shot).

Thanks for the correction, i guess i just never figured enough Europeans traveled to those parks to justify filling up a flight. It would have to be a 767-300 though, a 777 would definately be a waste.
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rwsea
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
However, you are ignoring the possibility for connections beyond CDG, which would really be the bread and butter of the flight.

Which again, don't matter one bit, because these cities already have one-stop service to just about any city in Europe (whether they're connecting through JFK/ATL, or one of the European hubs).
 
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:41 pm

I'm pretty sure we'll see a SLC-CDG or SLC-LGW in the next year or two.

I didn't see it mentioned it here, but Delta has flat out said that SLC would need to come up with an incentive package to start this route. A fairly hefty one (several million dollars over several years). The city managed to come up with over $1 million in less than three weeks went they tried to get the route for this year. I have no doubt that they'll manage to get the incentive package together that Delta needs to start the route.

Without incentives, I don't see the route happening. But we want this badly, and I think the city will manage to cough up the dough.

(And I have to brag slightly here: The company I work for was in on the incentive package last year, and I'm quite sure we'll be in on the next incentive package deal, as we've been sending people SLC-BLR and SLC-OTP quite often now.)

I've always wondered what the catchment area of the SLC airport (not the MSA for Salt Lake City) is. There are some far-flung towns for whom SLC is still the nearest commercial airport. To the south, I suspect it extends well past Provo down to Nephi, maybe even further. Wendover to the west, Evanston and Rock Springs to the east ... I wonder if it even grabs some traffic from southern Idaho that may not want to deal with a connection going from Twin Falls or Pocatello.
 
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:16 pm

I wonder why Delta hasn't tapped into the South American market from SLC. A large percentage of the 50,000 LDS missionaries go from Provo Utah to destinations in South America. I used to see all the missionaries connecting in DFW on AA to get down south. Hawaii would be a good direct destination. Tons of honeymooners in Utah, wedding capital of the universe.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 27):
However, honestly, SLC doesn't have TOO much to offer. It's a very dead city. I currently study in SLC, and try to get out of there every spare moment I have.

Tons to do in SLC area if you are active. Kayaking, fishing, fabulous hiking, skiing, and other winter and summer sports. If you aren't there are comedy clubs, a symphony, temple square, ballet, playhouses, lots of music venues, brewvies, film festivals big and small. The tower theatre has lots of cool events. The U and BYU have tons of events. Speakers, shows, plays and sporting events open to the public. You have all kinds of pro sports teams soccer, basketball and baseball. People who say there is nothing to do here are just too lazy to look. But to help you out here are some links
http://www.saltlakefilmsociety.org/ Indy films and events
http://www.slbees.com/ SL Bees Minor league baseball
http://www.nba.com/jazz/ Utah Jazz Basketball
http://web.mlsnet.com/t121/ Real Salt Lake Soccer
http://daybreakutah.com/events.htm has events, parks, trails and a lake stocked with fish all open to the general public FREE
http://www.balletwest.org/ Ballet
http://www.utahsymphony.org/ Symphony
http://www.events.utah.edu/
http://www.brewvies.com/ Brewpub theatre hybrid
http://www.slcgov.com/PublicServices/Gallivan/calendar.htm Gallivan center events
http://www.downtownslc.org/events/index.htm Farmers market and arts festivals
http://www.localhikes.com/MSA/MSA_7160.asp hiking guide
http://www.haletheater.com/ Plays and musicals
http://www.comedysportzutah.com/ Improv (strong reccomend)
http://theobt.com/ The off broadway theatre
http://www.saltlakeclimbers.org/ Try rock climbing
http://www.snowbird.com/events/summeractivities/alpineslide.html The alpine slide a utah date favorite
http://www.hellosaltlakecity.com/ event guide

Tons more stuff out there to suit every taste just do a quick search. I hope this gives you SLC haters a few ideas how to better enjoy your time here. And to monsieur Aeroflot I hope your next school year is more fun.
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LHboyatDTW
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:34 pm

I think we've talked about this topic many times already.

If you ask me, DL finds ATL too valuable to really invest in a second tier market like SLC instead. Most flights out of ATL are successful due to the feed there.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 43):
I wonder why Delta hasn't tapped into the South American market from SLC.

well from ATL they do serve:

GRU
SCL
EZE
Rio De Janiero (forgot the airport code)
BOG
LIM

(and a few others, feel free to add to the list)

....and SLC-ATL in the direction to South America, so a layover in ATL isn't too inconvenient. After all, that airport is designed with connections in mind.
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:51 pm

Quoting JRDC930 (Reply 40):
It would have to be a 767-300 though, a 777 would definately be a waste.

DL would only use a 763ER on this route, even though 777s will become more prevelant in the DL fleet over the next couple of years.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 43):
I wonder why Delta hasn't tapped into the South American market from SLC.

LHboyatDTW summed this up perfectly. I have a friend who must fly to SCL about every other month from here at SLC on business (Environmental Engineering--wastewater treatment), and the ATL connection fits the flight perfectly he says. ATL to South America from SLC isn't back tracking to any destination down there BTW.

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 42):
I'm pretty sure we'll see a SLC-CDG or SLC-LGW in the next year or two.
I didn't see it mentioned it here, but Delta has flat out said that SLC would need to come up with an incentive package to start this route. A fairly hefty one (several million dollars over several years). The city managed to come up with over $1 million in less than three weeks went they tried to get the route for this year. I have no doubt that they'll manage to get the incentive package together that Delta needs to start the route.

 checkmark  I think DL mentioned they needed $5-6 million to subsidize and market the route (to Europeans) over a 5 year period. I think that it wouldn't be a problem to come up with this. Both LGW and CDG wouldn't surprise me, but I think that is about all we'll ever see to Europe from SLC.

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 43):
Tons of honeymooners in Utah, wedding capital of the universe.

 laughing  Only to 20-something Mormon brides who want to follow tradition and get married in the Salt Lake LDS Temple, and get that fancy wedding picture album out on the east side steps/portigo!  rotfl 

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 43):
Hawaii would be a good direct destination.

SLC-HNL only on a non-ER 763 or a 764ER if the cargo warrants it. The outer lisland destinations (OGG, KOA or LIE) are better served from California originations such as LAX or SAN. We had a thread on this a few weeks ago where I was lambasted  flamed  by SLC and DL supporters! HNL is the only direct detination to Hawaii from SLC that makes any business sense.
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 43):
fishing,

Thanks for the info, as well, although without a rental car or something most of the outdoor stuff is far away like in Logan or Provo. Any who, i hope a flight does materialize, may be it would do better if it were just seasonal?
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:10 am

There are plenty of hikes acessable by public transportation in the foothills around the city. I managed fine without a car when I was at the U.
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SLC?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:43 am

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 42):
I've always wondered what the catchment area of the SLC airport (not the MSA for Salt Lake City) is. There are some far-flung towns for whom SLC is still the nearest commercial airport. To the south, I suspect it extends well past Provo down to Nephi, maybe even further. Wendover to the west, Evanston and Rock Springs to the east ... I wonder if it even grabs some traffic from southern Idaho that may not want to deal with a connection going from Twin Falls or Pocatello.

SLC International is the only commercial airport for well over 2 million people. The U.S. Census Bureau puts Utah's population currently at approximately 2.6 million people roughly dead even with what reside in neighboring Nevada. As for passengers from southern Idaho, other airports come into play most notably being TWF, PIH & IDA. TWF and PIH have OO turbo-prop service (EMB-120) into SLC and IDA has CRJ service to SLC on DLC, DEN and MSP on UAX and NWA respectively.
SLC continues to grow in population. and the state of Utah, Governors Office of Planning and Budget estimates now that the state could pass the 3 million mark by the next census. But the other knock against SLC and Utah is that it isn't growing any where near as quickly as neighboring Nevada and Arizona are. When the 2007 numbers are released I suspect that LAS will surpass the Wasatch Front for the first time, hence my assertion that LAS is a bigger market not to mention draw than SLC. By 2010 Arizona is estimated to have over 6 million people and Colorado will be close to 5 million. So despite being significantly larger than Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, Utah will have three neighboring states that are larger by comparison.
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Aeroflot777
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RE: Why No Intercontinental Flights To And From SL

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 43):
Tons more stuff out there to suit every taste just do a quick search. I hope this gives you SLC haters a few ideas how to better enjoy your time here. And to monsieur Aeroflot I hope your next school year is more fun.

Thank you very much for the info. A lot of the outdoor things are quite far away, for a student without a car, it's practically impossible. When you minus the outdoor activities, which SLC has a huge amount of, all you are basically left with is various plays, shows, and performances. Those you can't really do on a regular basis, very money draining. Ultimately there are a few things to do, but it's most definitely not on par with other major cities such as Boston, San Fran, Seattle, LA, New York and so on yet SLC is usually labeled as a major US city. Relating this back to the original topic, that is precisely the reason why SLC will technically not support international flights on their own. If they start, they will HEAVILY depend on connecting traffic, like most of DL's SLC operation already does. Once again, I appreciate you taking the time to find all those links! Thank you.

Aeroflot777