GlobalATL
Topic Author
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:00 am

DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:48 am

This is the Delta News Release:
http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10752

This is the "NextGatewayToChina" website:
http://www.nextgatewaytochina.com/

The site looks pretty good, folks.

“Delta will demonstrate to the Department of Transportation that nonstop flights between the world’s largest passenger gateway in Atlanta and one of the world’s fastest growing economies in Shanghai is the best choice for American consumers and businesses,” said Delta Chief Operating Officer Jim Whitehurst. “As Delta continues its ongoing international expansion, we want to be the world’s first airline to link the 65 million people of the Southeastern United States who currently lack convenient access to China directly with emerging markets of the Far East.”

[Edited 2007-06-21 20:59:32]
TriStar BusinessElite FedEx AirTran Delta Air Lines oneworld SkyTeam JetBlue/jetBlue MAXjet SkyMiles Eos = good spelling
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 1869
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting GlobalATL (Thread starter):

Thanks. I just added my name to the petition. ATL is the best new gateway to China and should be awarded the route by the DOT.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
GlobalATL
Topic Author
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:00 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:24 am

Yup, my name has been added to the petition. C'mon guys! Help out the Big "D"
TriStar BusinessElite FedEx AirTran Delta Air Lines oneworld SkyTeam JetBlue/jetBlue MAXjet SkyMiles Eos = good spelling
 
Alitalia744
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:25 am

Added as soon as the site went up.

C'mon big D, get us to China!
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:46 am

DL certainly deserves to fly to China - they've been waiting for awhile. But the arguments that they use for ATL still aren't that convincing. There are many other areas of the country which have O&D that warrants service by a US-based flag carrier, but do not yet have any service (LAX, SEA, and BOS being notable examples, as well as NYC in the case of PVG). Additionally, DL erraneously states that the Southeast is the only portion of the country without nonstop service to China, but the Pacific Northwest has no service to China as well (and has much larger O&D numbers than ATL). And for that matter, how is the Southeast really that much better served by DL's application? It would seem to me that these pax could just as easily connect in ORD, NYC, or IAD.

DL's proposal certainly is better than some of the other ones that I've heard thrown around (such as DFW-PEK and PHL-PEK, and even more service from ORD), but the West Coast is still underserved to China despite having the most O&D. Atlanta provides the feed, but doesn't have the O&D traffic. I guess it's really more a frustration with US carriers in general that they want to add flights to places that have no demand to/from China, overflying places with lots of demand and forced connections.

DL will probably get ATL-PVG simply because they're the one left out as it stands now. But I wish they'd have gone for LAX or NYC instead.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:41 am

Wesites like this are becoming the norm.......all four of the carriers who applied for China service did it last year and each gathered tens of thousand of ""signatures"".....did it influence the decision? Who knows?

In any case, DL does seem to have the strongest case for new service from a carrier that currently does not serve China. US is gonna apply........and, as discussed once before, Hawaiian plans to make a big ""to do"" in an attempt to launch a Honolulu-CHina service. Are either HA or US real competition, I dont think so, but you never know.....when governmental agencies are involved, you can never be sure of the result.

Good luck to Delta with their application.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
And for that matter, how is the Southeast really that much better served by DL's application? It would seem to me that these pax could just as easily connect in ORD, NYC, or IAD.

Because it's generally an hours flight or less from many major Southeast markets to ATL, as opposed to two to three hours to ORD, NYC, IAD etc. It cuts down on the travel time. Also, DL is generally the #1 carrier in numerous communities across the South, so they would be tapping into a larger passenger base.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 1):
ATL is the best new gateway to China and should be awarded the route by the DOT.

I think ATL along with DFW and ORD are the next group of cities US-DOT wants to see added to the U.S.-China mix.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
DL will probably get ATL-PVG simply because they're the one left out as it stands now. But I wish they'd have gone for LAX or NYC instead.

The problem with LAX of NYC-JFK is that all three of the big Chinese carriers offer flights to these U.S. world gateways. Even CO and EWR face this issue as well, which is why I don't see them getting such a route authority until later rather than soon on such a route despite the technical merits they assert. I don't see any route authorities going to a U.S. flag carrier from either of these until probably after 2015 or so, perhaps sooner if the Chinese within their U.S. bilateral agree to an amendment to speed up U.S. flag carrier route authorities. After the three I mentioned above, I think the next most likely cities will be SEA and BOS since they have large Chinese-American and Chinese immigrant populations with subsequent business O&D from the U.S. to the Chinese mainland.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 6):
Because it's generally an hours flight or less from many major Southeast markets to ATL, as opposed to two to three hours to ORD, NYC, IAD etc. It cuts down on the travel time. Also, DL is generally the #1 carrier in numerous communities across the South, so they would be tapping into a larger passenger base.

That's true, but how many of these communities really have that many people going to China? And in most cases, even though it's an hour more to ORD, it's an hour less from ORD to China. So it's really a wash. Not disagreeing with you, but still just wondering if these situations make the case for precious China slots - I'm not sure they do.

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 7):
After the three I mentioned above, I think the next most likely cities will be SEA and BOS since they have large Chinese-American and Chinese immigrant populations with subsequent business O&D from the U.S. to the Chinese mainland.

Well, they would be the most logical - but probably by Chinese carriers before US-based ones. US carriers seem to have an aversion to operating anything outside of their hubs, and things seem to be getting worse in this regard than better. BOS certainly deserves service to Asia anyhwere, let alone China. But no US carrier seems to be willing to try it out. And in the case of SEA, it seems that NW would be the only likely candidate, but they've already indicated that they want to start any China flights from MSP or DTW only (which is all but useless to SEA passengers). With that in mind, a direct flight to China is the Port of Seattle's biggest goal right now, so I'm sure they'll be able to persuade one of the Chinese carriers to come in during the next few years.

BOS and SEA are unique in that they're big cities with lots of international O&D, but are underserved by US flag carriers because they aren't in good hub domestic hub locations (despite being excellent international hub locations).
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
BOS and SEA are unique in that they're big cities with lots of international O&D, but are underserved by US flag carriers because they aren't in good hub domestic hub locations (despite being excellent international hub locations).

The proximity of BOS to NYC and SEA to YVR is what has held them back internationally respectively.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
Flighty
Posts: 7687
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 4):
for that matter, how is the Southeast really that much better served by DL's application? It would seem to me that these pax could just as easily connect in ORD, NYC, or IAD.

Bingo. ATL is a terrible geographic location for USA-Asia hubbing. The only worse locations I can think of would be PHX. Or MIA...

ORD, DTW or PHL kick the pants off ATL in terms of "connecting the SE to Asia" because they don't limit themselves to that. They also serve the Northeast or Texas... you know, places where the Asians and the businessmen are located.

Also, SEA would be a great location to funnel all of California plus the Seattle locals directly to PVG or PEK. NRT still works fine, as well.

All of this is to suggest that the ATL service would actually help very few people. Lexington Kentucky to China is 500 miles farther through ATL than DTW. That doesn't sound very convenient! Delta acts like the reverse is true, but that is a lie. The SE has nothing to gain from an ATL China flight... instead, they should lobby for NW at DTW.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:34 am

I'm there... showing this to as many people as I know have internet connections.

Definitely want DL to win next time, and "correct" the quasi-injustice that was ORD winning a 2nd frequency.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
OOer
Posts: 923
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:48 am

Actually ATL is situated pretty nice. It would serve all of South America, the Carribean, Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana all the way up to Noth Carolina...which is plenty to fill a 77L.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:54 am

Just added my name...hopefully this and more china service will see DL metal in the next few years.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:55 am

The only people who think ATL is a good geographic hub for China service are people who like DL.

I can't think of any other reason to support it.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:59 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
That's true, but how many of these communities really have that many people going to China?

I am betting this flight if awarded to DL will be mainly Chinese nationals using it. China is a fast growing country. I am sure there are businesses in the southeast US that deal with China daily and this will facilitate travel amongst those companies. The world has gotten a lot smaller over these last few years and just because a business is located in the US southeast does not mean they cannot have dealings with China.

Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that Y class will have a few people coming from China to go MCO via ATL cutting down on a lot of travel time to go to Walt Disney World. Now before you call me crazy on this, yes I know there is a Tokyo Disneyland and the one in California but the big daddy is in Orlando with not only WDW, but Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Universal. Chinese people are making much better wages and you can bet just like the Japanese fly all the way to Orlando, so will the Chinese.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting B777ER (Reply 15):
Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that Y class will have a few people coming from China to go MCO via ATL cutting down on a lot of travel time to go to Walt Disney World. Now before you call me crazy on this, yes I know there is a Tokyo Disneyland and the one in California but the big daddy is in Orlando with not only WDW, but Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Universal. Chinese people are making much better wages and you can bet just like the Japanese fly all the way to Orlando, so will the Chinese.

PVG-ORD-MCO 8062 miles
PVG-DTW-MCO 8094 miles
PVG-ATL-MCO 8063 miles


Looks to me that flying through ORD to get from PVG to MCO is actually shorter than ATL! Certainly the idea that flying to MCO via ATL will "cut down on travel time" is best saved for the land of fantasy. I'll stick with the land of reality, which says that ATL is a terribly positioned hub for China connections.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:24 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 12):
Actually ATL is situated pretty nice. It would serve all of South America, the Carribean, Florida, Georgia, and Louisiana all the way up to Noth Carolina...which is plenty to fill a 77L.

Latin American connections won't be taken into consideration by the DOT, nor should they. Flights to China are very limited, and the DOT is most concerned about opening up the USA-China market.

Quoting B777ER (Reply 15):
Also, you can bet your bottom dollar that Y class will have a few people coming from China to go MCO via ATL cutting down on a lot of travel time to go to Walt Disney World. Now before you call me crazy on this, yes I know there is a Tokyo Disneyland and the one in California but the big daddy is in Orlando with not only WDW, but Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Universal.

China has a Disneyland as well  Smile
 
MastaHanky
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:02 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):


PVG-ORD-MCO 8062 miles
PVG-ATL-MCO 8063 miles

Looks to me that flying through ORD to get from PVG to MCO is actually shorter than ATL! Certainly the idea that flying to MCO via ATL will "cut down on travel time" is best saved for the land of fantasy. I'll stick with the land of reality, which says that ATL is a terribly positioned hub for China connections.

Yeah, that one mile difference will save you a lot of time.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 18):
Yeah, that one mile difference will save you a lot of time.

The point of me posting you that is to show that ATL offers no benefits over ORD and DTW, and ORD and DTW offer better China connections to many more areas of the country than ATL does.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:25 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 14):
I can't think of any other reason to support it.

You can satisfy your ignorance in this regard by actually reading the information on the website which shows compelling, logical reasons why DL would be the best NEW entrant for service to China, not to mention all of those supporters listed who may or may not like DL. Since the decision will be made by rational people after analyzing all of the facts and potential contenders and not you, I think DL's chances are quite good.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 20):
You can satisfy your ignorance in this regard by actually reading the information on the website which shows compelling, logical reasons why DL would be the best NEW entrant for service to China, not to mention all of those supporters listed who may or may not like DL. Since the decision will be made by rational people after analyzing all of the facts and potential contenders and not you, I think DL's chances are quite good.

I've read the website, and its just pro-Delta drivel. I like DL, but anyone claiming that ATL is a good geographic hub for China service is drinking a little too much Kool-Aid.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 21):
but anyone claiming that ATL is a good geographic hub for China service is drinking a little too much Kool-Aid.

I see no reason why ATL-China wouldn't be as succesful as our ATL-NRT flight which is a cash cow and full almost all of the time. Also, early indications show our new ATL-ICN flights are doing outstanding.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:47 pm

Ok, then lets look logically at DL's arguments (taken from their website, my responses in italics):



Why Delta?

Delta is the largest U.S. carrier without nonstop service to China and would bring new competition as a new entrant to the Chinese market.
True, and as mentioned above, I think DL deserves a flight to China. ATL just isn't the best choice though

Delta serves more worldwide destinations than any other carrier.
How is this relevant for new flights to China? And why should it make a crappy proposal and better?

Delta'snew service will significantly improve access to China for customers in more than 150 destinations across the Eastern United States thanks to the extensive connections available at the world%u2019s largest airline hub in Atlanta.
Not true as pointed out above. Passengers in Florida and in the South will have the same, or longer, flight times if they go through ATL.

Delta is actively working with government, civic and business leaders in the U.S. and China to prepare for a new route by:
-Opening a third sales office in Shanghai recently;
-Helping the CAAC-Civil Aviation Authority of China write China's flight safety rules and regulations;
-Providing the Chinese technical aviation assistance in the areas of air traffic services and flight routing;
-Providing training to airline personnel in China, including pilots and air traffic controllers and providing support for flight dispatch and flight planning;
-Participating in the ACP-Aviation Cooperation Program, a collaborative U.S. government-commercial organization providing technical support and assistance to the China's airlines and aviation authorities;
-Working with numerous Chinese organizations to lay the groundwork for a successful service launch;
-Attending relevant conferences and workshops on China-U.S. air service;
-Assisting in the establishment of a consular office for China in Atlanta.
-Delta would provide daily nonstop service between Atlanta and Shanghai using its flagship Boeing 777 aircraft in a two-class configuration featuring BusinessElite, Delta%u2019s award-winning business class service.
-Delta plans to introduce fully horizontal lie-flat seats on its Boeing 777 fleet beginning in 2008, with a new in-seat entertainment system offering on-demand, digital video and music at every suite and a reclining seat that adjusts to multiple comfort positions, including a completely flat surface that offers customers a 6-foot 3-inch bed
Good that DL is improving its service. But the DOT doesn't care. And it's good that DL is wining and dining the Chinese government - but as a China gateway, ATL is still a loser.




Why Atlanta?

Delta's flagship hub at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport is the world's largest airline hub.
True, but it's shown that it can't always support every market based on that fact alone

Delta and Delta Connection carriers offer more than 1,000 peak-day departures to 257 nonstop destinations from Atlanta; more nonstop flights and destinations than any airline hub in the world.
True, but how many people are going to connect to an ATL-PVG route from places like LAX, MSP, BOS, or TLV? How many of these flights are actually realistic connections?

Delta's Atlanta hub is one of the fastest growing international gateways in the U.S., with more than 20 new international markets added in the last year.
So what? Doesn't improve the argument for China. Only the Latin American markets would connect, but those aren't the priority of the DOT.




Why the Southeastern United States?

The Southeastern United States is the only region in the country without nonstop service to China.
Not true. The Pacific Northwest doesn't have any either. Nor do the Mountain States.

Delta'service would link the more than 65 million people of the Southeast directly to one of the world%u2019s fastest growing economies.
Ok, that's true, but these 65million other people have other options that currently exist today. And there are other cities which could link these same 65M people with more benefit to the local market.


-The Southeast region of the US exported $10,469,647,524 worth of products to China in 2006, accounting for 19% of total US 2006 exports to China. (U.S. Department of Commerce)
-There are 77 Fortune 500 companies headquartered in the Southeast, including 13 in metro Atlanta.
-There are 22 metro areas in the Southeast that were named to Expansion Magazine%u2019s 2007 America%u2019s 50 Hottest Cities list for business expansion or relocation.
-According to Area Development magazine%u2019s 2006 Annual Corporate Survey, of which 80% of respondents are with manufacturing companies, the South is the first choice for the location of their new domestic facilities:
-Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Mississippi are the leading choices for the respondents%u2019 new domestic facilities (20%).
-Another 10% of respondents said they would locate their new domestic facilities in North Carolina, South Carolina or West Virginia.
-42% of respondents said they planned to locate their new foreign facilities in Asia, with the bulk of facilities in China (59%).
All decent points, but they still fail to say how ATL would improve existing service. And they ignore the fact that there isn't any O&D to China from ATL as it currently stands


Back to Top



Why Shanghai?

-With a population of 14,503,000, Shanghai is the largest city of the People's Republic of China and the 9th most populous metropolitan area in the world.
-Widely regarded as the center of China's modern economy, the city also serves as one of the most important cultural, commercial, financial, industrial and communications centers of China.
-Shanghai is often regarded as the center of finance and trade in China.
-Shanghai is the transportation center for China, providing passengers convenient connections to other destinations domestically within China and/or regionally within Asia.
-Pudong International Airport in Shanghai is the second busiest airport in China.
-The tallest structure in China, the distinctive Oriental Pearl Tower, is located in Shanghai.
-Known as "the Oriental Paris," Shanghai is one of the best places to shop in all of China..
Not really much to rebut here, except to point out that DL would still be going for PEK if it hadn't been awarded to UA from IAD. DL wanted PEK before that award, but now has realized that PVG is its only option if it wants to be successful.


Look, DL could be very successful to China. It's just that as far as China is concerned, ATL is a loser destination. As pointed out above, it doesn't save anyone any time except for those living in ATL (and there aren't many of them who want to go to China). Sure, DL could probably make the flight work with connections from Latin America and the Southeast - but should that really take precedence over communities that have the O&D traffic as it is today? And why should people in places like NYC and BOS be forced to connect just so DL can have rights to fly to China? If there were open skies then it would be more power to DL, but it isn't, and an ATL flight ignores most of the country.

LAX, NYC, ORD, DTW, BOS, SEA, PHL, IAD, SFO all are better hubs for this service. I don't see how anyone can argue with a straight face that ATL-PVG is a more important route than EWR/JFK, DTW, or LAX.

See - logical people can still come to a conclusion that this proposal doesn't make any sense. When UA was awarded IAD service, the DOT cited the strong O&D traffic, larger capacity of a 747, and connectivity within China. DL won't have any of those things.
 
scorpy
Posts: 165
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:26 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 20):
Since the decision will be made by rational people after analyzing all of the facts and potential contenders and not you, I think DL's chances are quite good.

What do you mean? rational? A committee of civil servants?  Yeah sure
 
rwsea
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 22):
I see no reason why ATL-China wouldn't be as succesful as our ATL-NRT flight which is a cash cow and full almost all of the time. Also, early indications show our new ATL-ICN flights are doing outstanding.

It would likely be successful, but would it provide easier access to China than the competing applications? Nope. Any carrier can start service to those places - China is a different story.
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:07 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):
Looks to me that flying through ORD to get from PVG to MCO is actually shorter than ATL!

Factor in the standard 60-90 minute delay at ORD and there is your time savings. Big grin
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
but would it provide easier access to China than the competing applications?

You bet ya. I can think of scores of cities that an ATL-China service provides easier access than from any city now serving China or proposed. Your serve.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:39 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 25):
It would likely be successful, but would it provide easier access to China than the competing applications? Nope. Any carrier can start service to those places - China is a different story.

Just look at the competing applications (as they appear to be currently), which are limited to this being a round for new entrants:
Hawaiian wants to start Honolulu-China service, which in essence would have to focus solely on the O&D of the Hawaiian Islands, as any routing via Honolulu would at add at least 2 hours of flight time compared to a direct China-Lower 48 routing, regardless of whether the destination in the Lower 48 would be LAX, SEA, ORD, ATL or wherever. Hence it can be doubted the DOT would give that proposal serious consideration.

US Airways wants to start PHL-China. Sounds good as such, but they are faced with some disadvantages:
Geographical area: ATL would be in an entirely new region for China flights, PHL is located between two cities with China flights (IAD and NYC). Not to mention that connections would also more or less just duplicate what is being offered at IAD or EWR, whereas ATL would offer a larger number of connection opportunities.
Lack of planes: Delta has two 77Ls coming next year in time for the new China route and already operates 777s. US Airways currently doesn't have any PHL-China capable planes, and also doesn't have any on order, so their plan is to source 2 used A340s, more or less specifically for this route, and while there is cockpit commonality with their A330s, the A340s would still be quite different and new for them in many areas (overall lenght of the plane which could be problematic at PHL, balance, etc), so this doesn't exactly speak in their favor either.

Say what you want about DL not having a good application, but it sure as hell beats the competing applications by the other "new entrants".
 
panamair
Posts: 3761
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:58 pm

I think that DL has invested so much into using ATL as the gateway for its first PRC route that it is too late (even before the launch of this website) to turn back and switch to another gateway at this point.

IMHO, as I mentioned in a previous thread, DL should be applying for JFK-PVG for the 2007 designation. Contrary to popular belief, the NYC-PVG market is not well served currently: not only is there no nonstop service by a US carrier, but the only carrier on the route, China Eastern (MU) is a lackluster performer and can hardly make the route work. We all know that the NY (and surrounding) area certainly has a lot more traffic to China than a whole bunch of states in the Southeast combined, but it also has another US carrier, namely CO, dying to enter the EWR-PVG market (a 100% certainty with the 2009 designations). If DL is serious about maintaining JFK as one of its most important international hubs, it will eventually need to have NYC-China service as well; if DL goes for ATL in 2007 (and by all indications, the DOT seems very amenable to granting the 2007 designation to a new entrant, and DL certainly has the edge amongst new entrants), CO will undoubtedly get one of the 2009 designations to open up EWR-PVG, and it may be a long time before DL gets a shot at JFK-China service after that. Of course, DL can try to get ATL in 2007, and then apply for JFK in 2009; however, in a head-to-head competition with CO for NYC-PVG service in 2009, CO will get the edge considering CO's EWR hub is bigger than DL's JFK.

IMO, DL should try to get JFK in 2007 (since the DOT seems very motivated to give it to a new entrant) and then shoot for ATL in 2009. Basically, ATL should face fewer challenges than JFK in 2009

The other interesting thing, according to the AJC article below, is that the DOT seems to want to make decisions about the 2007, 2008, and 2009 designations all at the same time:

http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...ories/2007/06/21/0622bizdelta.html

".......Delta's announcement came as the U.S. Department of Transportation began taking applications in the latest China route sweepstakes. U.S. carriers can compete for up to eight new daily U.S.-China flights over the next three years. The DOT said it will award all the flights at one time in an accelerated process that could produce winners as soon as this summer....."
which begs the question - what will Delta apply for in the 2009 round?
 
zsx81
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2000 11:46 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 10):
Bingo. ATL is a terrible geographic location for USA-Asia hubbing. The only worse locations I can think of would be PHX. Or MIA...

ORD, DTW or PHL kick the pants off ATL in terms of "connecting the SE to Asia" because they don't limit themselves to that. They also serve the Northeast or Texas... you know, places where the Asians and the businessmen are located.

Also, SEA would be a great location to funnel all of California plus the Seattle locals directly to PVG or PEK. NRT still works fine, as well.

All of this is to suggest that the ATL service would actually help very few people. Lexington Kentucky to China is 500 miles farther through ATL than DTW. That doesn't sound very convenient! Delta acts like the reverse is true, but that is a lie. The SE has nothing to gain from an ATL China flight... instead, they should lobby for NW at DTW.

Wow what the hell is DL thinking flying to NRT and ICN along with KE from ATL?

ORD ALREADY HAS SERVICE TO CHINA!
DTW HAS SERVICE TO CHINA VIA NRT ON NW AND ORD!!
PHL TRAFFIC CAN EASILY CONNECT VIA NY!

Arm chair CEO at their best!
 
GlobalATL
Topic Author
Posts: 197
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:00 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:50 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):

Give it a rest bud.....ATL is another option for the traveling public whether you agree with ATL or not.
TriStar BusinessElite FedEx AirTran Delta Air Lines oneworld SkyTeam JetBlue/jetBlue MAXjet SkyMiles Eos = good spelling
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 28):
Hawaiian wants to start Honolulu-China service, which in essence would have to focus solely on the O&D of the Hawaiian Islands, as any routing via Honolulu would at add at least 2 hours of flight time compared to a direct China-Lower 48 routing, regardless of whether the destination in the Lower 48 would be LAX, SEA, ORD, ATL or wherever. Hence it can be doubted the DOT would give that proposal serious consideration.

Hawaiian's arguement is two-fold: first, it could increase tourism to Hawaii, creating jobs and the like and the route would open up Hawaii to China, a good thing for the Hawaiian islands. HA does plan to make this political and plans to touch on the very sensitive issue of trade inbalances between the US and China. Wouldn't it be nice if the Chinese were spending some of their under-valued yuan in Honolulu and Maui? I (and I am sure HA) realize that Chinese vacationing in Hawaii would have no impact on the trade issues between the US and China, but it does make for an interesting application which could catch the attention of the DC crowd. Second, HA could offer service from several west coast cities via HNL to China......not an optimal routing but it makes much more sense to fly from LAX to China via Honolulu than Atlanta. HA would finally offer an alternative for pax travelling between the west coast and China.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 28):
US Airways wants to start PHL-China. Sounds good as such, but they are faced with some disadvantages:
Geographical area: ATL would be in an entirely new region for China flights, PHL is located between two cities with China flights (IAD and NYC). Not to mention that connections would also more or less just duplicate what is being offered at IAD or EWR, whereas ATL would offer a larger number of connection opportunities.
Lack of planes: Delta has two 77Ls coming next year in time for the new China route and already operates 777s. US Airways currently doesn't have any PHL-China capable planes, and also doesn't have any on order, so their plan is to source 2 used A340s, more or less specifically for this route, and while there is cockpit commonality with their A330s, the A340s would still be quite different and new for them in many areas (overall lenght of the plane which could be problematic at PHL, balance, etc), so this doesn't exactly speak in their favor either

All true, but US will stress that O&D numbers between PHL and China are likely better than O&D numbers between ATL and China (US can find some stats to support its case, we all know that numbers can be worked to prove whatever theory one wants to support), that PHL is in a better position that ATL for connection purposes (neither ATL or PHL are optimal for China services, so the argument can be made), and the fact that IAD and EWR have nonstops to China is irrelevant to the application process. As for equipment, I am sure that US could come up with a couple of A340s for the PHL-China route if required.....and/or Airbus would quickly change two of US's ordered A330-200s to A343s or A345s if US required. That US could convert A330 orders to A340 orders was mentioned as part of US's recent Airbus mega-order, and I am sure that there is a side-letter somewhere between Airbus and US that ensures that Airbus would quickly deliver A340s to US if the need arrises.

As I said above, I think that DL has the best application and will be awarded the authority, but everyone should note that both US and HA will put up very good arguements and make very cohesive applications in support of their bids for the authority and, when making decisions such as this, the government can be very unpredicatble. When politics are involved, who can be certain of an outcome?
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
And in the case of SEA, it seems that NW would be the only likely candidate, but they've already indicated that they want to start any China flights from MSP or DTW only (which is all but useless to SEA passengers). With that in mind, a direct flight to China is the Port of Seattle's biggest goal right now, so I'm sure they'll be able to persuade one of the Chinese carriers to come in during the next few years.

The biggest problem for SEA is that all the big-3 Chinese carriers have service to YVR just up I-5 or a quick QX or AC/Jazz flight. I think SEA is likely to get service from a U.S. flag carrier, but in addition to the YVR proximity (YVR being a better airport both logistically and cost wise than SEA as well) issue, AS is their biggest domestic feed and despite the fact that AS whores themselves with code-shares galore, this sets them back. If AS were to somehow merge with DL, or some of the brains at NW saw the light that SEA is somehow a better bet than MSP for this service, then I think an SEA-PEK flight could come in the next couple of years.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:04 am

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
Ok, then lets look logically at DL's arguments

See, here's the thing-- bias is a bitch, particularly when it's turned right back at you using the inanity that is bureaucracy. Let's have a look, shall we:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
ATL just isn't the best choice though

That's but your subjective opinion which isn't going to register worth two squirts o' duck sh!t to the powers in decision.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
Not true as pointed out above

Exactly what part of it isn't true?

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
Passengers in Florida and in the South will have the same, or longer, flight times if they go through ATL.

Show me where DL's said anything about flight times here.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
True, but it's shown that it can't always support every market based on that fact alone

Where does DL state that it can?

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
How many of these flights are actually realistic connections?

...which applies to any hub in application, that still in no way refutes the fact that those connections are offered.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
Not true. The Pacific Northwest doesn't have any either.

*buzz* WRONG!
...here's where assumption gets your argument into trouble: notice a particular word that's conveniently missing from DL's statement?

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 23):
there isn't any O&D to China from ATL as it currently stands

Which is a blatantly false statement, per se. Next?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:07 am

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 33):
The biggest problem for SEA is that all the big-3 Chinese carriers have service to YVR just up I-5 or a quick QX or AC/Jazz flight.

Then if SEA wants a Chinese airline, they should woo a Viva Macao or similar.. Now that's very interesting since there are no HKG/MFM/CAN area - SEA flights and some important computer manufacturing and R&D take place on each end.

As for DL flying to China; I wonder if it would be easier for them to get rights for ATL-PEK/PVG/HKG all via ANC instead of non-stops from ATL/JFK/SLC.
Also on other topic in this forum, it was discussed that GUM was to get kind of "Open Skies" w/ China (!), but GUM may only be attractive for HKG/CAN service and this route is a 18% longer than a ATL-HKG non-stop route.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
commavia
Posts: 9744
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:20 am

I really don't know why Delta is ever bothering. While I understand that this is probably a requisite for P.R. purposes, and it is good to have a nice, neat little site to direct people to, I really don't think it is necessary at all.

From my perspective, Delta is basically a lock to get the next available China authorities anyway, barring any major screw-up on their part or a surprisingly strong entry from a competitor. The only real applications that I could see viably even giving Delta's ATL-PVG any competition would be AA on LAX-PEK, because they would be the first U.S. carrier to serve the LAX-China market, which is huge, or possibly United on SFO-CAN, as it would open up a new Chinese city to U.S. nonstops. That being said, though, I really don't see either of those giving Delta much competition: ATL-PVG is theirs to lose.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 35):
As for DL flying to China; I wonder if it would be easier for them to get rights for ATL-PEK/PVG/HKG all via ANC instead of non-stops from ATL/JFK/SLC.

I gotta ask.........how would flying to China via ANC help Delta's application? How would DL or its pax benefit from a stopover in ANC?

(Note that years ago, DL flew LAX-ANC-HKG because their L1011-500s could not make it nonstop between LAX and HKG, sadly, DL's then newly delivered MD11s had the same problem, but thats a whole other story.)
 
Flighty
Posts: 7687
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
When politics are involved, who can be certain of an outcome?

Delta should unveil a religious faith-based strategy for winning PVG. They should explain ATL-PVG fulfills something in the Bible that must be done to allow the Rapture and Jesus to come back. GWB runs his entire foreign policy based on this notion. So DL should wise up and play along.

"And then God said to Zebodiah, "THOU SHALT NOT OPPOSE DELTA." And the lightningbolts and thunderclaps came.

A good array of Bible verses is what passes for "reason" with our government. Also, Delta could just begin flying without authority. It is OK to break the law if you are religious, or connected to the oil industry.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 37):
I gotta ask.........how would flying to China via ANC help Delta's application? How would DL or its pax benefit from a stopover in ANC?

Aren't route authorities granted on the basis of airport/city/state needs?
I'm reading how HA wants to fly to China and all the possibilities HNL could get a China flight because the potential benefits for Hawaii.. If DL (or any U.S. airline wishing for China flights) is smart, they could sure team up with the State of Alaska lobbying FAA on how much Alaska needs a China flight as a good way to balance the trade deficit the U.S. has with China. Sure DL may get an ATL- China flight this way, but when it comes to its passengers, I'm sure a ANC stop even with feeders from/to SLC, CVG, JFK, others.. won't be that appealing.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
ChiGB1973
Posts: 1394
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:39 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting B777ER (Reply 26):
Factor in the standard 60-90 minute delay at ORD and there is your time savings

http://www.avoiddelays.com/worst-off...-departure-airportsOctober2006.asp

http://www.avoiddelays.com/worst-off...ed-arrival-airportsOctober2006.asp

Did changes at ATL since October 2006 change these values?

M
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 39):
I'm reading how HA wants to fly to China and all the possibilities HNL could get a China flight because the potential benefits for Hawaii..

Hawaiian Airlines (and the state of Hawaii) hope to get the China flight in an effort to boost tourism to the state of Hawaii.........Hawaii is a huge vacation spot as you know and the idea is that if the Japanese love Hawaii and love spending lots of money on the islands, maybe the emerging middle class Chinese will as well. Lots of O&D, and as I mentioned above, flying from the west coast to China via Honolulu makes some sense.

While Alaska is a tourist destination, its much more limited that Hawaii especially if you eliminate all of the folks that visit Alaska via cruise ship and cruise tours.......there is little O&D between China and ANC and DL does not maintain enough flights into ANC (especially during the winter) to feed flights to China. If DL were to do something via ANC, most pax travelling between the US and China would have two enroute stops, say ATL and ANC, which is not ideal and would not be attractive to business travellers.

DL's powerful ATL hub is its biggest asset......if DL gets the next China authority (and I think that they will) the flight will fly in and out of ATL and be very successful due to the endless number of connection possibilties available via ATL. If DL gets its proposed LAX Pacific gateway running and its a success, additional flights between LAX and CHina will be added but we are now talking years into the future.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:11 am

Here's the email I just got on this....although I'd signed up earlier today on the petition. It appears that DL is using the old Keep Delta My Delta mailing list for future use.








June 22, 2007



Dear Ian,

Last winter you were one of Delta’s most active supporters as you supported “Keep Delta My Delta” and ensured that Delta Air Lines remained a major employer and force for economic growth in the U.S. Southeast. Given your interest in Southeastern economic issues, we are contacting you again to invite you to support a new effort to ensure that the next nonstop flight from the United States to China originates in Atlanta.

Currently, the U.S. Southeast, with more than 65 million people and $10 billion in exports to China, is the only region of the country without nonstop access to China. While cities like New York, San Francisco and Chicago have multiple flights each day to China, the Southeast remains underserved and inconveniently connected to growing business opportunities in the Far East.

Delta’s proposed service between the world’s largest airline hub in Atlanta and Shanghai would bridge this gap and conveniently connect customers in every Southeastern state to and from the burgeoning markets of China.

We know this is good for businesses and for tourism across our region. And we invite you to join our effort to improve commerce in your community with convenient flight connections via Atlanta to China.

To add your voice to our cause, simply take a moment and sign the e-petition at www.NextGatewayToChina.com and make your voice heard.

Sincerely,

The Next Gateway to China Coalition



P.S. If you joined us for “Keep Delta My Delta” and don’t think China’s your cause, you can unsubscribe from future mailings by clicking here.





© 2007 Next Gateway to China, Delta Air Lines.





Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
B777ER
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:35 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 29):
".......Delta's announcement came as the U.S. Department of Transportation began taking applications in the latest China route sweepstakes. U.S. carriers can compete for up to eight new daily U.S.-China flights over the next three years. The DOT said it will award all the flights at one time in an accelerated process that could produce winners as soon as this summer....."
which begs the question - what will Delta apply for in the 2009 round?

This should be interesting then. All sepculation for the next 3 years could be over in the next few months then. Sounds like the DOT just wants to be done with this for good.

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 40):
Did changes at ATL since October 2006 change these values?

Yes, I believe the new end around taxiway at the end of 8R has helped.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 41):
there is little O&D between China and ANC and DL does not maintain enough flights into ANC (especially during the winter) to feed flights to China. If DL were to do something via ANC, most pax travelling between the US and China would have two enroute stops, say ATL and ANC, which is not ideal and would not be attractive to business travellers.

I think SLC is currently the only year around destination from ANC via DL. If I recall correctly ATL is seasonal only. I would think that both HNL and ANC are quite low on the totem pole for direct China service for US-DOT. After ATL and DFW as I pointed out above both BOS and SEA are very much good O&D airports and markets for China flights.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 41):
If DL gets its proposed LAX Pacific gateway running and its a success, additional flights between LAX and China will be added but we are now talking years into the future.

 checkmark  Since LAX and JFK are covered by China's big three carriers, I suspect that won't come until 2015 or later.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
DL777LAX
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:45 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:13 am

I still stand by what I said months ago that DL really should be trying for LAX-PVG. That would show some serious commitment to LAX, and jump start them on growth to Asia. The mainland carriers do not have daily service to LAX, and there service sucks. Plus many Americans would rather travel with an American carrier.
Blindly following anything is bad, unless of course your blind and your following a guide dog.
 
cslusarc
Posts: 553
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:17 am

I think that DL has a hard battle to fight to get its first mainland China frequency. I don't think that DL will be ready to start a daily nonstop ATL-PVG routing on 30 March 2008 nor will there be enough demand from the US Southeast to feed this flights and make the economics work better than using the 77L to a different location. I think if DL upgauges its existing JFK-BOM service with the 2 77Ls that arrive next year that they'll be able to improve the profitability of flight by carrying more cargo. When Indian carriers enter the market nonstop, DL will also be able to use the 77L to defend they profitability of the flights with cargo as the passenger RASM premium DL enjoys today is expected to decline.

I'm looking forward for DL to begin its ALT serive to China 2010 at the earliest.
--cslusarc from YWG
 
Flighty
Posts: 7687
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 45):
LAX-PVG

What about SLC-PVG?

It could get feed from almost the entire West.
 
vega
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 28):
the A340s would still be quite different and new for them in many areas (overall lenght of the plane which could be problematic at PHL, balance, etc), so this doesn't exactly speak in their favor either.

Not unless the 340-500 is longer and heavier than a 747-400  sarcastic 

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
I am sure that US could come up with a couple of A340s for the PHL-China route if required.....and/or Airbus would quickly change two of US's ordered A330-200s to A343s or A345s if US required.

True, however, don't forget the route must now be started THIS year under the recently revised authority. I just don't see any activity from US at this time, or from the Philadelphia region, which makes me think US is still interested in this go-around. I believe, however, they are gearing up for and are likely favorites for the 2009 authority.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
User avatar
SLCUT2777
Posts: 3407
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: DL Ready To Fly To China; Launches New Website

Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting DL777LAX (Reply 45):
I still stand by what I said months ago that DL really should be trying for LAX-PVG. That would show some serious commitment to LAX, and jump start them on growth to Asia. The mainland carriers do not have daily service to LAX, and there service sucks. Plus many Americans would rather travel with an American carrier.

While I can understand your sentiments, US-DOT would look past that application very quickly in that service is already in place to/from LAX, although be it by a Chinese flag carrier. DL is much better off to go for ATL-PVG, and then in a few years when all the principle markets are covered (including places like SEA & BOS as I eluded to above), go for subsequent service from say LAX-PEK. An LAX application for China service by DL or any other U.S. flag carrier is pre-mature at this point.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 47):
What about SLC-PVG?

It could get feed from almost the entire West.

 rotfl   rotfl  Every US-DOT official as well as DL network executive planner would have to be on the crack-pipe to get something like that through the works!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bluebird191, blueflyer, CV880, Darkchild101, dk44, etops1, Gemuser, GSP psgr, LAX772LR, N14AZ, ordell, paulsaz, Tokushima, TWA772LR, W3C [Validator], WDHFlyBoy, zrs70 and 240 guests