Lumberton
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John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:00 pm

Very informative. Discusses his rationale for the orders surge at Le Bourget, his reasons for originally disparaging the 787, and his talking points on the A350XWB versus the 787.

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/117094.asp
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
Poitin
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:16 pm

To quote one of the comments under the column"

    Posted by unregistered user at 6/23/07 12:01 a.m.

    "He just sounds like a used car salesman on the verge of a nervous breakdown who doesn't really believe any of his own words."
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
slz396
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:24 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 1):
"He just sounds like a used car salesman on the verge of a nervous breakdown who doesn't really believe any of his own words."

The man has just signed a record of 700+ planes in merely 5 days, many of them wide bodies, so for me he can say whatever he wants really, as he actually delivers!
 
EI321
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:38 pm

Not 24h has passed since the end of the show and the attempts to ridicule Airbus' return to form are getting kick started.
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting EI321 (Reply 3):
Not 24h has passed since the end of the show and the attempts to ridicule Airbus' return to form are getting kick started.

Of course!

Interesting from the tape:

- He never calls barrels old-fashioned, as far as I can hear, unlike the previous report
- Ribs are fibreglassed covered at the bonds
- Echo's what has been said about the 7E7 - the original shark tail and nose not feasible (which probably means A will change the 350 nose)
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
deaphen
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:27 pm

Is it just me or is the link to heard the clip not anywhere on the page? Can someone direct me to it?

regards
nitin

**EDIT: Sorry, just reinstalled windows, so the acgtive x control wasnt installed, its working perfectly now! Thanks!

[Edited 2007-06-23 16:29:04]
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Stitch
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:29 pm

It is the black bar just below the last paragraph and just above the comments section. Click on the play icon on the far left of that bar.

Just finished listening to it, myself. Good talk.

[Edited 2007-06-23 16:36:39]
 
col
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:46 pm

Sounds very informative and straight. I expected him to be a little arrogant, as a lot of people make out here, but he seems to understand the competition. Couple of things I found interesting:

1) SQ - 777-300ER is their cash cow.
2) GE, I think he is straight on this, as it is obvious GE are very close to Boeing, and why wouldn't they be.
3) 787 being too small. This is where the global split is. In USA we probably will prefer to go with a 767-300 size, point to point requirement. But the rest of the world will want bigger, so both arguments are true.

Enjoyed the talk, and I would probably think you would get similar comments from Boeing, beats listening to some of the A.Netters Big grin
 
Lumberton
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:54 am

Yes, this interview was a chance to hear the man in the context of an entire conversation, not just a few sound bites or quotes.

I can see why he is such an effective salesman.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
atmx2000
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 4):
- He never calls barrels old-fashioned, as far as I can hear, unlike the previous report

I'm sure being taped causes him to control his mouth a bit better.

Quoting Col (Reply 7):
3) 787 being too small. This is where the global split is. In USA we probably will prefer to go with a 767-300 size, point to point requirement. But the rest of the world will want bigger, so both arguments are true.

Given that the majority of orders for the 787 have for the 787-8 and the vast majority of those outside the US, there doesn't appear to be a global split.
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Lumberton
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
Given that the majority of orders for the 787 have for the 787-8 and the vast majority of those outside the US, there doesn't appear to be a global split.

I found that odd as well. I'm surprised Wallace didn't call him on it.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
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Stitch
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 4):
- He never calls barrels old-fashioned, as far as I can hear, unlike the previous report

That would be because this conversation is from Thursday and the comment in question is from a conversation on Tuesday.  Smile
 
dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 9):
Given that the majority of orders for the 787 have for the 787-8 and the vast majority of those outside the US, there doesn't appear to be a global split.

But we've had discussions around this issue before. The question isn't what has sold yet, it is what will be sold in the future. Sales in the -8 class have benefited by a few things, the fact that it is available first, and the fact that because there is no competition, negotiations for those sales aren't going to depend on negotiations for the 350 nor compete for sales with the 350, some -8s will be converted to bigger variants, and that sales that aren't guaranteed to Boeing (like AA and DL) that haven't come yet are not likely to be going for the -8, they'll be going to the -9 or -10 and 350 variants.

cheers.
 
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:14 am

Dank, you can *Almost* bet the ranch on the fact that AA won't be ordering the A350, or any other Airbus products in the future.

After all of the finger pointing that went on after the loss of 587, the die was cast and the chances of there being another Airbus product delivered in AA livery are remote, at best.
Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
That would be because this conversation is from Thursday and the comment in question is from a conversation on Tuesday

So are we to believe that Mr Wallace is fortunate enough to get two interviews with Leahy at an event no less than the Paris Airshow? And then goes on to only write about one of them?  Smile

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 8):
hear the man in the context of an entire conversation, not just a few sound bites or quotes.

Agreed. Sound-bite journalist is excellent fodder for controversial threads, but I like to heard the full story. Thanks Mr Wallace for posting the full interview!  bigthumbsup 


On the engines, you can definitely hear frustration. I'm sceptical of his claim that engines have never cost a sale, but I guess we'll see.

What is interesting - and I never thought of this - is the increased complexity in negotiations with a single engine provider. If Airbus has indeed formed an agreement with RR to price as though in a competitive environment, that's definitely forward thinking. We may be entering an era in the next 10 years, where a "wintel" forms - a Boeing/GE exclusive alliance and an Airbus/RR exclusive alliance for widebodies.
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Stitch
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 14):
So are we to believe that Mr Wallace is fortunate enough to get two interviews with Leahy at an event no less than the Paris Airshow? And then goes on to only write about one of them?  Smile

Why not? Some may view him as a mouthpiece for Boeing because he writes for a Seattle daily, but the man has bona fide credentials and has been covering aerospace for a great deal of time which has allowed him to forge lasting friendships with many in the industry. And since he doesn't make it a point to write "shock journalism" pieces designed to jump on those individuals, they are more likely to spend time with them then with others who don't show the same respect for the industry and it's players.
 
dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:33 am

Quoting Fleet Service (Reply 13):
Dank, you can *Almost* bet the ranch on the fact that AA won't be ordering the A350, or any other Airbus products in the future.

I agree, but I see why my sentence made it seem like I was saying that they weren't guaranteed to Boeing. That piece meant something on the order of many sales that are yet to come are going to be for bigger variants, with the exception being sales to airlines that are guaranteed to go with Boeing such as DL and AA.

cheers.
 
flyabr
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:40 am

as for the interview...interesting. a wave of A380 orders after EIS. i really wonder about that statement. one other comment. leahy mentions composite over aluminum ribs on the 787. i thought the dreamliner was gonna use composite ribs???
 
Ken777
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:44 am

A good interview and a good insight into JL - far better than the sound bites we normally get.

An interesting part of his comments was focused on slots now being a prime factor in airlines buying sooner rather than later.
 
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mariner
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 8):
I can see why he is such an effective salesman.

He did a couple of long tv interviews when he was in Sydney with the A380 a few weks ago, and he was extraordinarily charming. He has - as they say - a twinkle in his eye, a strong sense of humor.

He kept reminding me (not physically) of Michael O'Leary, who makes comments that infuriate some but is one smart businessman.

mariner
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atmx2000
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:22 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 12):
But we've had discussions around this issue before. The question isn't what has sold yet, it is what will be sold in the future. Sales in the -8 class have benefited by a few things, the fact that it is available first, and the fact that because there is no competition, negotiations for those sales aren't going to depend on negotiations for the 350 nor compete for sales with the 350, some -8s will be converted to bigger variants, and that sales that aren't guaranteed to Boeing (like AA and DL) that haven't come yet are not likely to be going for the -8, they'll be going to the -9 or -10 and 350 variants.

Yet the -8 orders keep on coming for well after the 2010 EIS of the 787-9 and from outside the US. I think you are just buying into the spin Airbus and its supporters here have used to mask the reason why they aren't trying to address the -8. They simply can't cover the range from the 3 class low 200 pax to 350+ pax space with a single aircraft family powered by a single engine family from any vendor. They have decided to target the upper end of the range because that is where Boeing has older products and where Airbus has nothing selling at a particularly brisk rate.

The general relationship between size and sales volume is more or less an inversely related one as you go into territory requiring widebody aircraft. That is particularly true when a given aircraft model is neither too heavy in order to support higher range or too light and as a result too short ranged, and as long as aircraft of diffent size have similar technology levels. Unlike with previous aircraft, Boeing has optimized the MTOW of both the -8 and -9, so range differences aren't as great. CASM won't differ as much either. I think you will find the 787-8 will hold its own, particularly if the 787-8 gets any tech upgrades the -9 has.

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 14):
On the engines, you can definitely hear frustration. I'm sceptical of his claim that engines have never cost a sale, but I guess we'll see.

It doesn't usually help the case having only one vendor, unless the one vendor goes all out to optimize that engine because they are committed to that particular airframe winning over competing airframes.

Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 14):
We may be entering an era in the next 10 years, where a "wintel" forms - a Boeing/GE exclusive alliance and an Airbus/RR exclusive alliance for widebodies.

The smaller widebodies will have high enough sales volumes to support multiple engines. The large ones won't, particularly if they are twins. Which engine maker signs up for exclusivity for larger models will have something to do with who wants it more and who has the most suitable engine.
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dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 20):
Yet the -8 orders keep on coming for well after the 2010 EIS of the 787-9 and from outside the US. I think you are just buying into the spin Airbus and its supporters here have used to mask the reason why they aren't trying to address the -8. They simply can't cover the range from the 3 class low 200 pax to 350+ pax space with a single aircraft family powered by a single engine family from any vendor. They have decided to target the upper end of the range because that is where Boeing has older products and where Airbus has nothing selling at a particularly brisk rate.

I think you are partly right. But even Boeing's forecasts, as I recall, think that the -9 will have a bigger share of the market than the -8. If you look at the customers who haven't committed, like EK, LH, BA, etc. They are all going to go for more of the larger models (only BA of that group would even have a shot at the -8, in my opinion). And airlines like Air New Zealand, CO, etc. are moving towards -9s. Part of this is because Boeing is also going to go after at least the low end of the 777 space, they are just delaying the inevitable. I don't disagree one bit that Airbus knew they couldn't tackle everything with one plane. They went for not only where Boeing was weakest, but where the bulk of what they think their customers are going to buy (e.g. the domestic 763/a300 market didn't have a strong sized market that was going to buy Airbus). But more importantly, what people want to conclude around here is that the distribution of sales today is indicative of the distribution of the sales tomorrow. There are ample reasons to think that this isn't the case.

cheers.
 
flyabr
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 21):
But more importantly, what people want to conclude around here is that the distribution of sales today is indicative of the distribution of the sales tomorrow. There are ample reasons to think that this isn't the case.

could be, however, i also doubt any airline would buy a particular plane just to get one because it's first out of the gate...especially if it didn't fit their needs. there apparently was (is) a big need for aircraft with the size/performance of the 788.
 
dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 22):
could be, however, i also doubt any airline would buy a particular plane just to get one because it's first out of the gate...especially if it didn't fit their needs. there apparently was (is) a big need for aircraft with the size/performance of the 788.

Hunh? I never said there wasn't a demand for 788s did I? Think about it this way. If you are in the market for a 788 sized plane, why wait for the 350 to be firmed up before ordering it, knowing that you are still going to end up with a 788? There is more pressure to order that now, since other airlines that are also looking for it are committing now. Whereas, if you are really in the market for bigger planes (or if you are also in the market for bigger planes) you might be waiting to make the commitment. Add in that the replacement market for 330s, 340s, and 772s will be later than 762s and 763s in general, and you can see how the overall distribution of orders could easily shift away from the distribution that the 787 is showing now. It may turn out that way. But to suggest that the distribution of sales to date MUST be indicative of sales as a whole is bordering on the preposterous.

cheers.
 
flyabr
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 23):
But to suggest that the distribution of sales to date MUST be indicative of sales as a whole is bordering on the preposterous.

you seem to favor the bigger is better notion. all i'm trying to point out is that even after 789 and 7810 sales takeoff...there will still be demand for the 788. "it" isn't always about trying to obtain the largest aircraft you can possibly get...unless of course you are EK!
 
dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 24):
you seem to favor the bigger is better notion. all i'm trying to point out is that even after 789 and 7810 sales takeoff...there will still be demand for the 788. "it" isn't always about trying to obtain the largest aircraft you can possibly get...unless of course you are EK!

I do? I actually think that the bulk of sales for the 787 will probably be in the -9 range and the bulk of 350s in the -900 range. And again I never said that there won't be any more 788 sales. What I do believe, is that the distribution will shift to larger ones, because for a variety of reasons, the -8 got favored more than it's overall demand will be, and that the traditional Boeing customers may favor slightly smaller variants than the traditional Airbus customers. But I could easily be very wrong. I think that both Airbus and Boeing targeted the right markets at their decision times. The only potential misstep on the side of Boeing with regards to marketing was thinking that a -10 with the -9s MTOW was going to be enough. But fortunately for them, Airbus' missteps with the 350 gave them a substantial amount of breathing room. I actually kind of like the SQ combination of the 789 and the 359.

cheers.

edit to add SQ

[Edited 2007-06-23 23:14:23]
 
flyabr
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 25):
What I do believe, is that the distribution will shift to larger ones, because for a variety of reasons, the -8 got favored more than it's overall demand will be, and that the traditional Boeing customers may favor slightly smaller variants than the traditional Airbus customers.

the -8 got favoured...what do you mean?
 
dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 26):
the -8 got favoured...what do you mean?

That the distribution of sales to date favors the 788 compared to what I think the total demand really will be.

[Edited 2007-06-23 23:16:34]
 
flyabr
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 27):

i'm still confused. when i read your previous posts...i get the feeling that you are hinting that airlines basically "signed up" for -8s because the other variants weren't first out of the gate (specifically -9, -10). or that you presuppose that if boeing had pushed the -9 first that those sales would have taken off vs the -8... ??
 
dank
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 28):
i'm still confused. when i read your previous posts...i get the feeling that you are hinting that airlines basically "signed up" for -8s because the other variants weren't first out of the gate (specifically -9, -10). or that you presuppose that if boeing had pushed the -9 first that those sales would have taken off vs the -8... ??

OK, put it this way. You are thinking about buying planes. If you are looking for a 788 sized plane, you know that Airbus isn't a competitor that will be available. You also know that other people are interested in buying now, so you have motivation to ordering early. You order now. If you don't think that you need 788s, you have more motivation to waiting to see what Airbus is going to offer since there is actually competition. Now add the fact that the -8 is available earlier, so that pushes orders a bit earlier that way as well, because there is more availability. The fact that some carriers have swapped to larger models, does shift some of the balance, but I don't think that it is indicative of any great trend to do so, but it is possible that an airline like NZ wanted to get out of the gate faster by doing so. But the big issue goes back to the first point, that there is no competition for the -8, which makes it easier to pull the trigger, and since other airlines were pulling the trigger, it makes it harder not to pull the trigger. Which is partly (but not nearly completely) why I think you have seen it take longer for the likes of LH, BA, EK, AF, etc. to make a decision. They are looking for more planes that aren't 788s (BA and maybe AF for KL's use is the only one I'd think are candidates for the -8 at all). And there is no reason, given that an airline is big enough, that a split order can't be useful (e.g. SQ).

I think that there are two misconceptions in these parts. FIrst, that the market isn't some continuous distribution (i.e. that there is something intrinsic abut the 787 and 777 sizes that means that you have to target each one with a different plane and the second one being that the marketspaces for Airbus and Boeing must have 1 to 1 matches (or that the airlines that might likely go Boeing vs. those that would likely go Airbus, would have to go for the same exact sized planes or specifications).

cheers.
 
blsbls99
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 29):
OK, put it this way. You are thinking about buying planes. If you are looking for a 788 sized plane, you know that Airbus isn't a competitor that will be available. You also know that other people are interested in buying now, so you have motivation to ordering early. You order now. If you don't think that you need 788s, you have more motivation to waiting to see what Airbus is going to offer since there is actually competition. Now add the fact that the -8 is available earlier, so that pushes orders a bit earlier that way as well, because there is more availability.

Well, fortunately, not every airline order new planes at the same time. Granted, the limited availability of the 787 due to it's sales success thus far, does push some carriers to order now, rather than later. But to assume that all airlines that will need a 788 model have ordered, is a big mis-assumption.
I've read many a thread on a.net where certain posters have made claims that if airline XXX was satisfied by plane YYY then they would have ordered plane YYY by now.
There are many different considerations when it comes to an airline placing an order for an aircraft. Slot availability is definitely one, as is size and performance. But, there are many times where an airline will replace an aircraft with one that carries more, or carries less, and that is most likely because of it's performance and costs to operate.
There have been many RFPs where airlines have pitted the 787 vs the A350. To assume that Airbus does not have a plane that competes with the 788 is not correct. They do have a plane, in fact they have the A332 and the A358. The 788, A332, and A358 are not all the same size, but they can perform much of the same missions.
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atmx2000
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 25):
I do? I actually think that the bulk of sales for the 787 will probably be in the -9 range and the bulk of 350s in the -900 range. And again I never said that there won't be any more 788 sales. What I do believe, is that the distribution will shift to larger ones, because for a variety of reasons, the -8 got favored more than it's overall demand will be, and that the traditional Boeing customers may favor slightly smaller variants than the traditional Airbus customers. But I could easily be very wrong. I think that both Airbus and Boeing targeted the right markets at their decision times.



And yet Airbus's most popular model currently is the A332. I would suggest there is more demand for aircraft with a capacity of 200-250 than for aircraft closer to 300 pax.

The replacement market for A343s and early A333s will be taking off when the A359 debuts, the market for replacing 772ERs will begin a few years later. However, as with the 747, I expect you will see significant replacement of larger aircraft with smaller aircraft of similar range. I expect a fair number of the 300 pax aircraft will be replaced with aircraft like the 787-8/9 and A358, as these are the first aircraft of that size to have the necessary 7000nm+ range.

Quote:
The only potential misstep on the side of Boeing with regards to marketing was thinking that a -10 with the -9s MTOW was going to be enough. But fortunately for them, Airbus' missteps with the 350 gave them a substantial amount of breathing room. I actually kind of like the SQ combination of the 789 and the 359.

There are a large number of A333s that were sold despite having lesser capability than the 772ERs and A343s. The capability of 787-10 as proposed is enough to cover the A (A333 and 772A) & B (A343 and 772ER) ranges that Boeing defined. Presumably it will be able to perform missions in its capability range more efficiently than a heavier aircraft with greater installed thrust that is only a little bit newer.
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eraugrad02
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:04 am

Did they interview Boeing as well? i'd like to hear that as well.
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PVG
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:28 am

I like when he says: "We'll eventually pull ahead because we'll have the better airplane"

Seems to me that he hasn't learned his lesson from underestimating the 787. Why would he think that Boeing is going to sit there and let Airbus not only catch-up, but surpass them when Boeing has a 5 year lead? The other thing that you learn in marketing 101 is that you never underestimate anyone, especially a competitor that had the capability of building a 747 in the 60's. It looks and sounds like they really thought that Boeing was finished and that they were going to have the cake all to themselves. Very interesting!
 
motopolitico
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):

Thanks for linking this, I enjoyed listening to it.
Garbage stinks; trash don't!
 
ilikeflight
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 34):
Did you listen to the interview? What made you post in such anger?

Some of the things he said in there and just he other recent comments he has made earlier in the year
Think Different
 
aminobwana
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:23 pm

Quoting PVG (Reply 35):
I like when he says: "We'll eventually pull ahead because we'll have the better airplane"

Seems to me that he hasn't learned his lesson from underestimating the 787. Why would he think that Boeing is going to sit there and let Airbus not only catch-up, but surpass them when Boeing has a 5 year lead? The other thing that you learn in marketing 101 is that you never underestimate anyone, especially a competitor that had the capability of building a 747 in the 60's. It looks and sounds like they really thought that Boeing was finished and that they were going to have the cake all to themselves. Very interesting!

I think that the best answer to such attitude is ignore him. Could be, if he had no more the limelight of public attention on him, he will recapacitate (or his chiefs will !). At least, I will try to act accordingly, without insults !
The middle term damage his is inflicting on the company cannot be exaggerated!

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mariner
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 38):
recapacitate

I know the English language quite well, but your usage puzzles me. My dictionary defines it as:

"To qualify again; to confer capacity on again."

Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 33):
bafoon

That's a new one for me.

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 38):
The middle term damage his is inflicting on the company cannot be exaggerated!

I have no idea if he works on commission, but if he does, I wouldn't mind the check he's going to pick up for last week.  Smile

mariner
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Beaucaire
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting Ilikeflight (Reply 33):
how much BS does this guy have in him????? and how long will it take Airbus to realize that he is a giant bafoon and in no ways helping the company with remarks like that

What remark in particular in his interview makes you breed such a statement ?????
He sounded reasonable,down to earth and defended his products,which is normal in his position.
None of his remarks were out of scope neither over the top.
If you consider the result of more than 600 orders and MUO's in a trade show not helpful for his company,you must have a particular sens of management.
It's not him who is full of BS but rather you....
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
gbfra
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:24 pm

Quoting PVG (Reply 35):
It looks and sounds like they really thought that Boeing was finished and that they were going to have the cake all to themselves. Very interesting!

It's easy to know everything in hindsight. But how was the situation then?

1. At the time Boeing was in severe management trouble.

2. Many financial analysts had recommended Boeing to focus on their military branch because of a higher expected ROI. The return of Stonecipher was seen as a signal that Boeing would exactly do this and not invest too heavily in commercial aircraft.

3. Boeing had twice envisaged to present a modernised version of the B747 without finding enough support from customers.

4. The idea that Boeing was completely on the wrong track was strengthened by the Sonic Cruiser. They couldn't believe their ears when they heard of such an idea at Toulouse because they had had a look on such an a/c before and had found out that it couldn't work. (And called it "Sonic Loser" therefore). Philippe Camus told me of a conversation with Phil Condit about the Sonic Cruiser where even Condit didn't seem to be fully convinced.

5. On top of all: The Airbus engineers told management that the concept of the B787 was premature and management believed them. They concluded that they would have enough time to pursue other projects first.

6. It is a myth that Airbus was totally absorbed by the A380 then. They had to develop the A400M (which many Airbus people didn't want to develop because it's a military a/c) and, what is probably lesser known, they were seriously thinking about a successor to the A300 at the time.

7. The corporate structure of EADS/Airbus contributed to the disaster. If EADS had had a closer look at the Airbus outlook they might have raised some questions. But Forgeard was not controlled by the EADS board and they just believed what he told them.

I don't want to defend Airbus. It was a huge mistake to underestimate the B787 and they will have to pay for it for a long time. However, some people here like to give the impression that the company was (or still is) run by a bunch of fools. That's probably an exaggeration.
The fundamental things apply as time goes by
 
cygnuschicago
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 39):
I have no idea if he works on commission, but if he does, I wouldn't mind the check he's going to pick up for last week.

Well, he did say his bonus is dependant on him selling 200 A350s by end of year  Smile

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 38):
The middle term damage his is inflicting on the company cannot be exaggerated!

And what exactly is this "middle term" damage?
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
 
astuteman
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:33 pm

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
An interesting part of his comments was focused on slots now being a prime factor in airlines buying sooner rather than later.

FWIW I believe this to be one of the biggest drivers of the continuing order glut that we're seeing today.
I can't possibly see either of the manufacturers lining up production capacity for more than, say, 40/mth narrobody, 14/mth widebody, 4/mth VLA, because I can't see the guarantee that higher sales can be maintained for 20 years.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 20):
It doesn't usually help the case having only one vendor, unless the one vendor goes all out to optimize that engine because they are committed to that particular airframe winning over competing airframes.

Great description of the A350-1000  Smile
Should work out alright, then  Wink

I'm astonished that more hasn't been made of the composite shell on aluminium frame comments.
This has been widely touted in the press, and on A-net as the Achilles Heel of the A350 - it's undoing in fact.
I for one was in full agreement with his comments...
"How do you get over the composite/aluminium issue on the A350?"
"Same way Boeing do on the 787"  Smile
Class answer.

Quoting Motopolitico (Reply 36):
Quoting Lumberton (Thread starter):
Thanks for linking this, I enjoyed listening to it.

Indeed.
Many thanks, my friend.
That was very interesting.

Regards
 
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glideslope
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 41):
7. The corporate structure of EADS/Airbus contributed to the disaster. If EADS had had a closer look at the Airbus outlook they might have raised some questions. But Forgeard was not controlled by the EADS board and they just believed what he told them.

I don't want to defend Airbus. It was a huge mistake to underestimate the B787 and they will have to pay for it for a long time. However, some people here like to give the impression that the company was (or still is) run by a bunch of fools. That's probably an exaggeration.

Well, we will know the answer in a couple of years. Mr. Leahy will say anything to anyone. Even Mr. Wallace, IMO. He has a long road to haul IMO, to become legitimate, and not a smoke filled back room poker player.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
PVG
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:44 pm

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 41):
. However, some people here like to give the impression that the company was (or still is) run by a bunch of fools. That's probably an exaggeration.

I think that BUFFOON or SOPHIST is a better word than FOOL! It really seems that they haven't learned anything from their mistakes. I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see.
 
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scbriml
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 38):
I think that the best answer to such attitude is ignore him.

It would certainly be good if some did.

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 38):
The middle term damage his is inflicting on the company cannot be exaggerated!

But it seems, some just can't help themselves. wink 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
wolbo
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:07 pm

Interesting interview, thanks for the link!

Good to hear his straight forward and insightful views on several topics. He actually comes across as very calm, convincing and balanced, but of course he's not neutral. I can find no support for his supposed 'old-fashioned' statement which seems at best taken out of context to create a storm in a tea cup.

Leahy is clearly a very skillful and succesful sales executive with a well proven track record. It's just a pity that some people are so biased they fail to recognize that simple fact.
 
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moo
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:41 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 38):
The middle term damage his is inflicting on the company cannot be exaggerated!

Leahy is practically the only executive at Airbus and EADS that hasn't been reassigned, resigned or fired in the recent crisis, and hes been at the company over 20 years.

Theres a very good reason for that.
 
Maersk737
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:58 pm

Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 36):
I think that the best answer to such attitude is ignore him. Could be, if he had no more the limelight of public attention on him, he will recapacitate (or his chiefs will !). At least, I will try to act accordingly, without insults !
The middle term damage his is inflicting on the company cannot be exaggerated!

As long as he is selling, the attention will stick to him  Wink You can ignore him as much as you want. I don't think he really cares Big grin

Cheers

Peter
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
BoomBoom
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Sun Jun 24, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 45):
I can find no support for his supposed 'old-fashioned' statement which seems at best taken out of context to create a storm in a tea cup.

Because he said it on Tuesday and this interview was taped on Thursday.
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Lumberton
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RE: John Leahy Airshow Interview By James Wallace

Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting Dank (Reply 25):
I actually think that the bulk of sales for the 787 will probably be in the -9 range and the bulk of 350s in the -900 range.

I agree with you that this may be the largest sub-segment here, but Mr. Leahy's comments seem to "write off" the U.S. 767 replacement market. Also, IIRC there is a UK carrier based in LHR that has lots of 767s coming up for replacement. It will be interesting to see which way they go on this.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".