Guest

OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 12:14 am

Which airline have the oldest fleet? I think NW would be a good guess
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 3:57 am

I'll venture a guess-- Reeve Aleutian

If they are still around, I read an article in Airways that said they still operate Electras and 727-100s on passenger services, and the 727 is a relatively new addition!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:07 am

Older fleets than NW:

SY(Sun Country) - DC10-15, 722
YX(Midwest Express) - DC9-10/-30, MD-83
CN(Chicago Express) - J31s
AT(Air Tran) - DC9-30, 717*
*Until delivery of their latest 717 on 11/00.



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
Samurai 777
Posts: 2000
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 2:56 pm

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 5:13 am

Look at Canadian Airlines! Until recently, it still had those DC-10s and it still has the third largest fleet of 737-200s! This is mainly because the airline could no longer afford to order that many new a/c like the A320 (further orders were deferred), due to its serious debt load. Now that CP is merging with Air Canada, the 737-200 fleet isn't going to be around much longer.

Canadian Regional, CP's regional affiliate, has as many as 28 Fokker F28-1000s in its fleet. As with CP's fleet of 737-200s, the F28s won't be around much longer, either.

WestJet also has its entire fleet consisting of old 737-200s - about 15-20 of them. While it's a new airline, it chose those planes because they were very, very cheap - about $2-3 million for each 737-200. They will be phased out as the newer 737-700s come in, starting in 2001.
 
Guest

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 5:19 am

America West
has got themselves an old fleet.
Very old! SO does TowerAir Very Old
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 6:58 am

If you want to fly the 732, better make plans soon! Due to new ICAO regulations in regards to noise and jet exhaust emissions, the 732 will be rapidly phased out from most airline fleets very quickly. Expect lots of A319 and 737-700 sales in the next few years or lots of 733/734/735 second hand sales from ILFC and GECAS lease fleets as airlines scramble to replace their non-compliant airliners.
 
tupolev154b2
Posts: 1269
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2000 9:01 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 8:23 am

I believe that this thread started by Jepper will eventually be turned into another airline-bashing thread by some rather known folks on this board. Please refrain from turning it into one and in the meantime please keep the tone down. Thanks.

As for my thoughts on the airline with the oldest fleets, I would throw my $0.02 into these carriers:

NW: 742's (not that old though), DC-9's, DC-10's
Metrojet: 732's
Air Koryo (national carrier of North Korea): IL-62's, TU-154's

Tupolev154B2

 
desertjets
Posts: 7570
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 8:45 am

How are we defining "OLD" here??? There are certainly a lot of "OLD" types flying around, but equipment wise most aircraft in western airlines fleets are generally no older than 20 years old. Most of the 737-200 fleet are the newer "Advanced" models. Some as were delivered new to their airlines in the mid-80's... most aren't older than 1975 vintage. By far Northwest operates about 100 DC-9's, most of which average 25-30 years old, but they are maintained to the highest standard and have all been updated with new interiors.

As for the America West bashing... they do not have and "old" fleet by any standard. "Old" types include 15 ex-Ansett 737-200A's, which are about 20 years old. And 13 ex Republic and Eastern 757s, which are 15 years old... but would you call a 757 an "old" type??? Plus half of HP's fleet are new or newer Airbuses.

BUT... Back to the original intent of the post I would have to agree that Reeve Aleutian has one of the oldest fleets out there. But they are all well maintained and do the job they need to do well.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
airfun
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2000 7:34 pm

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 10:40 am

America West has a fleet that is no more than 11 years old and fly very nice a319 and a320...I would have to say that one of the oldest airplanes I have ever been on is a flght from St louis to Detroit on southwest that plane was a piece of crap and more than one person mentioned "that what we get for flying cheap"...not to mention that Southwest failed to mentioned that we would be stopping..over and over again. When I asked about it they told me they were only required to tell me about stops that would require deplaning..very interesting. Not that I mind taking off and landing, however my mother was very tense and by the time we got there she was drained and tired and of course we all paid the price. Wasn't worth the savings.
 
Guest

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 12:41 pm

"Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it got to be this old?"

— Jim Tavenner
------------------------------------------------------

All you youngsters that think that it has to be "new" in order to be "good", ought to take heed in the quote above. Just because it has a coffee table and joystick with cute little winglets doesn't make it the be all and end all of aerospace engineering.
 
nwa man
Posts: 1752
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 1999 3:24 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 12:51 pm

I think NW has the oldest fleet of the US majors, at an average of around 19 years (The A319s are helping to chip away at this number).
Interesting notes in defense of NW...

Some of NW's 757s are older than their 747-200s.

Take away the DC-9s and DC-10s and NW has the second youngest fleet of all the majors.

NW operates the largest fleet of Airbuses in the United States (yes, larger than United) and one of the largest Airbus fleets in the world.

All of NW's 727s will be gone by 2004. The oldest 727s will be retired beginning next year.

NWA Man
Create your own luck.
 
trintocan
Posts: 2726
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2000 6:02 pm

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 2:40 pm

Air Caribbean based here in POS owns 6 YS-11A-500s, which are all over 30 years old, plus 3 Boeing 737-200A. I do not know how old those are, however they were bought second-hand from Southwest and from Chinese operators. Only 2 of the YS-11s fly at present - the rest are stored.

Those 732s do emit lots of emissions on take-off and in flight - really awful indeed. They are also somewhat noisy on take-off and inflight.

Put another way, those planes make rival BWIA's 737-800s and Dash 8 Q300s seem like godsends...

 
Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: OLD Fleets 777gk

Wed Aug 09, 2000 6:15 pm

I think you have a good shot at being right there.

Both of the 727-22C's that they have are 1966 builds, they got them in 84.

The Electras all are mid fifties vintages.

And their YS-11's have been sold off.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
gmjh_air
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2000 4:37 pm

RE: OLD Fleets DC-9CAPT

Wed Aug 09, 2000 6:38 pm

I don't mistrust you or your airplane, it's the maintenance of a plane that counts, regardless of age, but a bit more so when older of course.
An old fleet requires the highest standards of maintenance and that is not the case today at many airlines.


And you can never get away from the fact that the new "cute" joysticks and other gadgets help to improve overall safety by reducing the workload on the flight deck.
 
Guest

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 8:59 pm

I would say Samara Airlines
They are still flying with those old AN-24s and have quite a large fleet of TU-134s.
 
FrontierMan
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 6:19 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 10:22 pm

The thing that kills me is, that Cargo airlines have less accidents and operate far older planes (DC-8s, 707s). Why is that? Shouldn't they be crashing all the time according to everyone's comments? Aren't older planes unsafe? If that were the case wouldn't these DC-8s crash all the time.

I think First Air of Canada is up there. They are operating an old fleet of aircraft. 727-100s and I believe some ATPS and YS-11.
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Wed Aug 09, 2000 10:23 pm

I happen to count YX in the 'majors'...they're rated in the Zagat Airline survey, and Conde Nast magazine--along with United, BA, Cathay, Northwest etc...
Their average airframe age is 26 years I believe, that puts them ahead of Northwest.

I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8005
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Thu Aug 10, 2000 12:27 am

However, many older D8's (even in air cargo service) are heading to the scrapyard because of the age of the airframe and the fact they are using non-Stage III compliant engines.

The D8's and 721's that UPS flies are rebuilt to the point of they might as well be a new plane. These planes also sport FAR Part 36 Stage III-compliant engines (CFM56's for the D8's and Rolls-Royce Tay for the 721's), so it allows them to operate from most airports 24 hours a day. Also, the rest of UPS' jet fleet have Stage III-compliant planes: 742's, 762's, and A300-600's.
 
BH346
Posts: 3164
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2000 5:50 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Thu Aug 10, 2000 12:59 am

Air Gabon uses the
-1 Hawker Siddley(HS) 748-2A
-1 HS 748MF
-1 Sud Caravelle

BH346
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
 
HermansCVR580
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 5:29 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Thu Aug 10, 2000 3:30 am

Give me a bugless Douglas anytime over a computer flowen Airbust!!!! Grant it maintence is higher on older planes but that just makes me feel all the more safe. If an airline has a DC-9 or 727 that is 20+ years old and it wasnt safe they wouldnt fly it. Everynight I see MWE working on their DC-9's at their maintence center and then in the morning those same planes leave safely for LGA,DFW ect ect..... Every day over and over. Just think of how many of these kinds of planes takeoff and land safely every day and night. Remember when NWA retires their last Airbus the crew will jumpseat home in one of their DC-9's
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
HermansCVR580
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 1999 5:29 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Thu Aug 10, 2000 3:40 am

Give me a bugless Douglas anytime over a computer flowen Airbust!!!! Grant it maintence is higher on older planes but that just makes me feel all the more safe. If an airline has a DC-9 or 727 that is 20+ years old and it wasnt safe they wouldnt fly it. Everynight I see MWE working on their DC-9's at their maintence center and then in the morning those same planes leave safely for LGA,DFW ect ect..... Every day over and over. Just think of how many of these kinds of planes takeoff and land safely every day and night. Remember when NWA retires their last Airbus the crew will jumpseat home in one of their DC-9's
The right decision at the wrong time, is still a wrong decision. "Hal Carr"
 
AC183
Posts: 1496
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 10:52 am

FrontierMan

Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:39 am

FrontierMan, First Air flies neither YS.11's nor ATP's. Their planes are hardly new with the likes of 727-100's and -200's, and some 737-200's (which are old, but some of them are as new as '80's built), and a Herc. Their turboprop fleet is HS.748's and DHC Twotters and some assorted others, which are on average '70's built. The only really old aircraft are their single DC-3 (keeps going and going) and their one or two Beavers, which are the DC-3's of bush flying. So overall the fleet is old, but very tough (needed for arctic flying), and hardly as old as some of the aircraft mentioned on this thread (Reeve's Electras)...
 
Spence
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 1999 6:54 am

Chicago Express

Thu Aug 10, 2000 3:20 pm

I think Chicago Express is flying all Saab 340B's now, are they not?
 
fanofjets
Posts: 1978
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2000 2:26 am

RE: OLD Fleets

Thu Aug 10, 2000 4:01 pm

Some of the oldest planes I have flown on were Air Canada DC-9s, British Airways 747s, and KLM 747s. The planes, however, seemed to be well cared for, and I felt entirely confident flying them.

UPS uses 1960s-vintage 727 shorties on its passenger charters; however, with their complete overhauls, new engines, and glass cockpits, they are "newer" than many of the "new" planes in other fleets.

Northern Air Cargo of Alaska has a fleet of DC-6s, and Air Atlantique has some birds of even greater vintage. Judging from the pictures I have seen, these planes appear to be beautifully maintained.

This all goes to show, an airplane that receives good care can keep on flying!
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
Guest

HermansCVR580

Thu Aug 10, 2000 8:52 pm

I AGREE WITH YOU TOTALLY, GIVE ME A 20 YEAR OLD DC9 AND NOT A COMPUTERIZED A319!