trijetfan1
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Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:49 am

I was looking at flightaware.com and I noticed that SLC gets a lot of 767-400 love from DL. And CLE and SLC are about the same size in terms of their hub from their respective airline. SLC also gets a lot of 752 action aswell. Any more upgraded routes for CLE on the 764 or 752/3?

GO TRIBE!
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MCOflyer
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:00 am

I'm guessing it there would be, it would be a trans Atlantic run.

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as739x
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Thread starter):

Though similar in size, they are completely different cities geographically and airline focus. CLE is shadowed by multiple other cities and hub and not very far from another CO hub (EWR). SLC is pretty lonesome in Utah and feeds all of the West for Delta. Its very easy to fill a 764 ATL-SLC is you have passenger connecting to probably over 30 cities. But if you look at CLE. If you flew 764 IAH-CLE, how many cities does CO even fly to from CLE that is not served from IAH non-stop, not many! Also, CLE is really a secondary hub for CO, while SLC is a primary hub for DL. So for how much I'd love to see Cleveland get a scheduled 764, it just doesn't seem in its future in my opinion.

And specially by a carrier that can reach 3 main cities (LGW/LHR,CDG,AMS) with a 757 from CLE.

ASSFO

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[Edited 2007-06-24 19:25:20]
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dutchjet
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:27 am

One possibility......a 2 or 3 times per week service operating EWR-CLE-HNL, but only after the 787s arrive and CO has added more domestic connecting possibilities at CLE. At some point, CLE is going to pick up domestic growth for the CO system.......EWR is just about maxed out and any expansion there will be international in focus.
 
san747
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Thread starter):
Any more upgraded routes for CLE on the 764 or 752/3?

Doesn't CO fly the 753 on CLE-LAX/LAS currently? More 753s than SAN gets!  Silly
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skibum9
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting TrijetFan1 (Thread starter):
Any more upgraded routes for CLE on the 764 or 752/3?

Sure, the Browns charter a 764 from DL. I think that is about all the 764 flights you will see scheduled out of CLE.
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panam330
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:44 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
One possibility......a 2 or 3 times per week service operating EWR-CLE-HNL

Not to completely disagree, but I think they'd do CLE-LAX-HNL before they 'wasted' a 764 on CLE-HNL. Also, a stop in LAX would enable an aircraft switch if need be. That said, I still think that CLE-LAX-HNL would be more likely on a 757 than a 767.
 
dutchjet
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 6):

Not to completely disagree, but I think they'd do CLE-LAX-HNL before they 'wasted' a 764 on CLE-HNL. Also, a stop in LAX would enable an aircraft switch if need be. That said, I still think that CLE-LAX-HNL would be more likely on a 757 than a 767.

Time will tell.....note that the 764 in ""Pacific"" configuraiton makes sense from a yeild/demand point of view for a route such as this. CLE-LAX-HNL is not an altenative; a passenger flying from Pittsburg or Washington (for example) to Honolulu with CO would have two stops enroute: a change of plane in CLE and then a stop in LAX.....passengers wont do it unless the fares are rock bottom. And CO is yeild oriented. Nonstop CLE-HNL (a few days per week) could offer easy service from the eastern US to HNL with one easy connection.

Will is happen? Not just yet.....as I said above, CO needs to take delivery of a good number of 787s and needs to build up the CLE hub before, to use your words, they ""wasted"" a 764 on CLE-HNL.
 
N231YE
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:03 am

CO...I'm still waiting on a CLE-HNL flight...
 
as739x
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 6):

CLE-HNL is out of the range of a 757.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:13 am

isnt dl in slc a much larger operation than co in cle????

i love the 764 personally it looks great!!!!!
 
deltairlines
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 10):
isnt dl in slc a much larger operation than co in cle????

I believe the DL operation in SLC is much larger than CO's in CLE in terms of flights, mainline flights, destinations, etc.

Part of the reason for CLE's current size, especially when compared to SLC, is the size/scope of the regional markets. For CLE, the airport has to compete with DTW's huge hub less than 100 miles away from CLE, not to mention DL's CVG operation, and AA and UA both have hubs 300 miles away at ORD. There are a lot of hubs in the Great Lakes region of the country; more choices for connections means that some airports are not going to get as many. See US and PIT.

As for SLC, the area is a lot more sparse. The only real hubs that serve the Rockies are SLC and UA's DEN operation, which are about 400 miles apart. If you want to consider US' hubs in PHX (507 miles) and LAS (368 miles), you've got a lot less traffic going through there. Also, SLC is real convinient for east/west connections, as the West Coast is about 600 miles away at all points from SLC, so it's real easy for Delta to move passengers east/west there. With CLE, it's not as conducive to connections to the Southeast; IAH is much more suited for West Coast-Southeast traffic for CO.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:04 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
One possibility......a 2 or 3 times per week service operating EWR-CLE-HNL, but only after the 787s arrive and CO has added more domestic connecting possibilities at CLE. At some point, CLE is going to pick up domestic growth for the CO system.......EWR is just about maxed out and any expansion there will be international in focus.

A EWR-CLE-HNL operation would provide EWR a connection to GUM, which it now does not have. It would seem a 764 (or 762, but that aircraft doesn't do well on low-yield routes) would need to be assigned on a daily basis to operate the flight, but there would be aircraft time needed in EWR to make this work. Downgrade to a 753/738/739 on a morning 767 EWR-IAH, midday IAH-EWR would do the trick.

EWR 0700 CLE 0835
CLE 0920 HNL 1258
connects from numerous flights arriving CLE from 0700 to 0815
connects to Flt 1 GUM at 1400

HNL 1845 CLE 0945-1035 EWR 1200
connect in HNL from GUM
Unfortunately, numerous connections at CLE start leaving at 0845
CO would have to determine if the GUM connection was worth more than the outbound CLE connections.

Dutch, maybe a less than daily operation would make sense. CO could operate a EWR-Europe roundtip 3 or 4 days per week and EWR-CLE-HNL on the opposite days. In the Fall-Spring this could be done by utilizing the EWR-ATH aircraft. Peak season might require a 752 going somewhere liike EWR-DUB 3 or 4 days per week.
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:15 am

Last week I flew CO on a redeye SEA-CLE (738, 100 percent LF) and connected CLE-BWI (735, 95-98 percent LF). Saw the two morning 753's side by side a gate apart at CLE (LAX and LAS, I think). Even if a 764 is unlikely in the near future, it is neat to see the summer 753's at CLE.

Jim
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panam330
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 9):
CLE-HNL is out of the range of a 757.

Read what I said before correcting me: I said CLE-LAX-HNL on a 757.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 4):
Doesn't CO fly the 753 on CLE-LAX/LAS currently?

In the summer, CO has 9am 753 departures to LAX, LAS and IAH. Rest of the year only the 9am to LAS is with a 753.

CO one summer ran a 753 around 9pm to SEA. It was packed every night.
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toltommy
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:53 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 8):
CO...I'm still waiting on a CLE-HNL flight...

Don't hold your breath. NW doesn't even run a DTW-HNL on a seasonal basis anymore, and there is a TON more feed at DTW.

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 11):
As for SLC, the area is a lot more sparse.

Yes, but is has been much better developed as a connecting hub. according to the most recent issue of Air Transport World, CO is down to 15-20% mainline at CLE. The rest is regional, which means nothing bigger than a 145. DL operates a greater % of mainline flights at SLC, including widebody service. DL has moved into larger regional A/C, and Skywest operates a good deal of those from SLC for DL.

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 14):
Read what I said before correcting me: I said CLE-LAX-HNL on a 757.

That would be the modern equiv of DL's failed PDX hub. Anyone not from CLE would double connect to get to HNL, triple connect to get to an out island. The vast majority of the eastern US has single connection service to HNL, and a good number have single connections to OGG as well. Even LIH or KOA would be at worst a double connection, as opposed to triple if they used XXX-CLE-LAX-HNL-XXX service.

I'd say CLE has a better chance of seeing 145's with drop tanks than they do of seeing a 764 in regular service there.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 11):
Part of the reason for CLE's current size, especially when compared to SLC, is the size/scope of the regional markets. For CLE, the airport has to compete with DTW's huge hub less than 100 miles away from CLE, not to mention DL's CVG operation, and AA and UA both have hubs 300 miles away at ORD. There are a lot of hubs in the Great Lakes region of the country; more choices for connections means that some airports are not going to get as many. See US and PIT.

Toledo is 100 miles from CLE DTW is certainly much more. CVG is over 5 hours by car and that is with traffic in your favor, i.e. read none.
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toltommy
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:02 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 17):
Toledo is 100 miles from CLE DTW is certainly much more.

As the bird flies, its 100 miles. It's about 150 by road. The point is that there are a lot more connection opportunities from the midwest. Rocky Mountain cities really only have SLC and DEN, or the opportunity to connect well out of the way, adding a lot of time to their travel.
 
masseybrown
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RE: Any 764 Routes On The Horizon For CLE?

Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:29 pm

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 6):
I think they'd do CLE-LAX-HNL before they 'wasted' a 764 on CLE-HNL.

IIRC both UA and NW have tried one-stop CLE-HNL service in the past via LAX, SFO, and ORD at various times dating back to DC-8 days. The services never lasted very long, which makes me guess that the through-flights failed to achieve any marked success over change-of-plane alternatives.

It's hard to say that CLE-LAX-HNL would get CO much more traffic than they get connecting over IAH now. Interestingly, because of two-hour ORD connections, CO's total CLE-HNL trip time over IAH is shorter than AA's or UA's, despite the almost 400 nm advantage of using ORD.

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