727LOVER
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Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:03 am

In case you hadn’t heard (it was talked about in the other thread),
Skybus will be flying to St. Augustine, Fl., marketed as Jacksonville/Daytona Beach

This brings up interesting speculation:

Are other airports in Florida w/ no airline service under consideration?

Someone brought up LAL for Tampa/Orlando

What about VRB for Melbourne/West Palm Beach

Punta Gorda for Sarasota/Ft. Myers

Or how about Naples (APF)

Lake City?

Ocala marketed as Orlando/Tampa?

Any airports south of MIA? Kendall?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
md90fan
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airpo

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Any airports south of MIA? Kendall?

I believe they fly to FLL (yes FLL), which is coincidentally one of their better performing routes (along with BUR), also the fact that there isn't much of a market south of Miami rules out the possibility of them doing such a move.
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:20 am

If they go to Palm Beach, I'm sure it will be at PBI. I doubt they will however, since they are already at FLL. I'd expect FLL to stand in for Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami. MTH and EYW are not capable of handling an A319, and FLL is a good choice given its central location.

No reason to not use SRQ or RSW...they aren't exactly MIA, TPA, or MCO.

Lake City would be marketed as what? There's not a significant population or a tourist draw in that area. I think LAL or SFB will be more likely for Orlando versus OCF. OCF is just a little too far away from Orlando's main tourist attractions, and OCF residents have their choice of MCO or GNV for flights. Not to mention that Ocala in itself is not much of a draw...rich horse-business folks aren't Skybus clientele. LAL has the unique ability of being marketed as Orlando/Tampa. I think the slightly more conventional approach of SFB and PIE makes more sense on that front, however.

Naples has runway length issues, and I do not believe it can handle an A319. Skybus as well as NK and perhaps FL should look at VPS and PFN service however.

[Edited 2007-06-26 00:22:10]
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:20 am

Dunno about the above listed cities. Some don't have scheduled service - would depend on getting TSA in there.

I was looking at the Skybus website about St. Augustine and the driving distances/times to other Florida cities. Huh? Have any of those people actually driven in Florida in the last 5 years? I drove from Daytona to Jacksonville last summer, midweek, mid day. It took almost 2 hours from Daytona to St. Augustine on I-95 due to construction (a never ending thing according to my son-in-law who lives in JAX). He advised us it would take equally as long to make the drive from St. Augustine to Jacksonville (it took roughly an hour going southbound the previous day), so we opted for A1A, and it was just as slow, taking over an hour. Perhaps Skybus is timing their drives for 03:00, I don't know, but they are dreaming if they think their posted drive times are realistic. Also, aforementioned son-in-law says there is a large amount of opposition from St. Augustine NIMBY's about Skybus arrival, and lawsuits are going to happen. Should be interesting.
 
billreid
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:31 am

SRQ or PIE are the only choices on the west coast.
Punta Gorda lacks originating traffic and won't get any outbound from RSW as that is a inbound market served by WN.
TPA is served by WN.
PIE is only eight miles from TPA and is vulnerable to TPA-WN traffic.

SRQ offers the best west coast opportunity as it is smack-dab in the middle and has no WN traffic.

Additionally Florida handles a great deal of seniors on board which is a huge problem for any airline flying without bridges.
Given the density of seats on board Skybus will need a solution for 8-12 wheelchairs into Florida per flight. Based on a twenty-five minute turn this is impossible to do without bridges. At PIE or Punta Gorda Skybus would have to go to a 70 minute turn to accommodate wheelchair pax.

MLB works with the east coast for all the same reasons. Skybus also can tap into the 900,000-1,000,000 dollars MLB is now offering for regional jet service. They are desperate.

my 2 cents.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:34 am

SRQ has FL and B6, so it's not exactly LCC competition clear. I doubt SX will steer clear of PIE simply because WN is at TPA, just as they won't steer clear of SFB/LAL/MLB (perhaps) simply because WN, not to mention FL, B6, USA 3000, and others are at MCO.
 
sacamojus
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 3):
I drove from Daytona to Jacksonville last summer, midweek, mid day. It took almost 2 hours from Daytona to St. Augustine on I-95 due to construction (a never ending thing according to my son-in-law who lives in JAX). He advised us it would take equally as long to make the drive from St. Augustine to Jacksonville (it took roughly an hour going southbound the previous day), so we opted for A1A, and it was just as slow, taking over an hour

It is not that bad now. There is no construction from St. Augustine to Jacksonville anymore, except in downtown. The drive from St. Augustine to Southside Jax only took me 30 minutes, and from St. Augustine to Daytona was only 35-40 minutes.

I think LAL has great potential. They have a very nice terminal with rental cars available. It is only 30 minutes to Disney, same distance from SFB to Disney, but also 25 minutes from Tampa. Except for some construction on I-4 the drive would not be bad if you take to the Polk Parkway to I-4. I always wondered why LAL hasn't recieved service in the past considering the population size, the money in the area, Publix, colleges, and growing population.
 
billreid
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 5):
SRQ has FL and B6, so it's not exactly LCC competition clear. I doubt SX will steer clear of PIE simply because WN is at TPA, just as they won't steer clear of SFB/LAL/MLB (perhaps) simply because WN, not to mention FL, B6, USA 3000, and others are at MCO.

The logic is ok if SX were planning to fly to ATL(FL) or JFK(B6), but that is not the case. They would fly to CMH while WN flies to RSW and TPA and can vigorously defend the terf. A flight to PIE is vunerable to WN flights and excess capacity merely on that PIE is TRULY co-termalized with TPA.

The argument is supported by TZ immediately exiting PIE upon WN purchase. WN sees PIE as a TPA terminal.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
FLALEFTY
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:22 am

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraff...ports/airport_safety/part139_cert/

According to this FAA website, Lakeland, St. Augstine, Ocala and Vero Beach are not currently certified as Part 139 - Class I airports, which would allow them to host scheduled airline service with planes over 31 seats.

St. Augustine is probably in the process of upgrading from Class IV to Class I. Thanks to the Northrop-Grumman airplane modification plant at St. Augustine, the airport already has the ATC, runway maintenance, fire fighting and HAZMAT control services in place. But there is no terminal to speak of and they still have to arrange for TSA coverage (that was a problem that delayed service to Marathon last year).

As for Skybus serving PIE, there is a market there, but I don't think the local airport authority will do anything special for Skybus to get the service.

DAB and MLB are starving for new service. I'm surprised that they didn't offer Skybus the "sun and moon" to serve them.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 8):
But there is no terminal to speak of and they still have to arrange for TSA coverage (that was a problem that delayed service to Marathon last year).

They are building a hanger structure that is nearly complete for Skybus to use as a terminal.
Ed Wuellner, executive director of the St. Augustine Airport Authority, told his board of directors that the hangar should be done by July 16, two days before the first incoming flight touches down from Columbus, Ohio.

And in terms of certification:
There are still two more (slight) hurdles: One, the Federal Aviation Authority will visit the airport July 8 for an inspection before certifying the facility for commercial service. Two, the airport has not yet obtained its Class 1 Commercial Certificate.
http://staugustine.com/stories/061907/news_new0619A.shtml

A very tight schedule and I wonder about the TSA and its equipment.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 8):
DAB and MLB are starving for new service. I'm surprised that they didn't offer Skybus the "sun and moon" to serve them.

I'm guessing they might if this doesn't work out.

Hunter
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RL757PVD
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:24 am

I dont think it would take much for LAL to get 139 certified.... directly between Orlando and Tampla i think its like 30 min to TPA and 30 min to Disney (45 to Orlando City)... LAL is just as close to the theme parks as SFB is.... i think it'd be a slam dunk
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:33 am

There is no shortage or airports in Florida I can tell you that.

On the SW coast from Tampa South to Marco there are at least 10 decent airports that they can choose from, only 5 have commercial service. So they really control the cards. Airports like PGD, and VNC, are all options and can probably allow them to not only fly in for free but share in any concessions and airport revenue that SkyBus might generate. The commercial airports would have a more difficult time doing this. I think what ever airport gives them the best deal regardless of facilities is the SW Florida of choice. So I would think 1 SW Florida airport, 1 central Fl airport, Cancun and Nassau will all be in the next announcement for services starting in the fall.

So SRQ, think about revenue sharing, hotel partners revenue sharing, waived landing and rent fees for a couple of years, advertising, ANYTHING BUCKEYES etc etc. I mean come on Tressel and his wife have a home on Siesta Key. Please give them a nice incentive package to start service. Then finally my screen name will actually become a city pair.
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727LOVER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:32 pm

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 8):
DAB and MLB are starving for new service. I'm surprised that they didn't offer Skybus the "sun and moon" to serve them.

MLB just got USA3000 to BWI
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
exFATboy
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting FLALEFTY (Reply 8):
As for Skybus serving PIE, there is a market there, but I don't think the local airport authority will do anything special for Skybus to get the service.

Have to disagree - PIE may not be as desperate as they were before Allegiant arrived, but they're still pretty hard up for business. According to their website, in 2004 PIE had 1,333,069 passengers, in 2006 it was 389,997. That's pretty sad. There's only 80 flights a week out of PIE between Allegiant and USA 3000, and seasonal Canada service only amounted to another 5 flights a week.

While PIE might not be willing to give away the entire store like they would have been pre-Allegiant, they're more than willing to play "Let's Make A Deal!" with...well, anyone, really.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
MLB just got USA3000 to BWI

Whoa....I have searched far and wide for a story on that. Do you have a link?

Talked to the mayor the other day about the German charter. He is frustrated on the Customs Agent situation.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 15):
Whoa....I have searched far and wide for a story on that. Do you have a link?

I noticed it last week on the USA3000 website when I found the SRQ stuff. The SRQ press release just came out today, so maybe the same for MLB.
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727LOVER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 15):
Whoa....I have searched far and wide for a story on that. Do you have a link?

As far as I know, there isn't a press release, but if you look at USA3000airlines.com, you can see their 2 new destinations...MLB & SRQ
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:12 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 17):
As far as I know, there isn't a press release, but if you look at USA3000airlines.com, you can see their 2 new destinations...MLB & SRQ

I checked their timetable. Late afternoon into MLB, and evening back out looks like. Seasonal service for now. I love it.

http://www.trvlink.com/download/u5/schedules.pdf

Now if we can get the Germans in and maybe someone to compete with Delta, I will be happy.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 3):
Also, aforementioned son-in-law says there is a large amount of opposition from St. Augustine NIMBY's about Skybus arrival, and lawsuits are going to happen. Should be interesting.

The 319 isn't any louder than the F-5's and E-2's that operate out of there....then again, leave it to the NIMBY's to screw it up...

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
727LOVER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 12):
Airports like PGD, and VNC,

WOW!!! Venice....never even thought of that one. How long is that runway?

Tiusville/Cocoa Beach could draw from Orlando & Melbourne.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
apodino
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:41 am

If they are going to go to Orlando, I am surprised no one has mentioned SFB for them. SFB is the perfect airport for Skybus.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting Apodino (Reply 21):
If they are going to go to Orlando, I am surprised no one has mentioned SFB for them. SFB is the perfect airport for Skybus.

Keep in mind, the point of the thread:

If they are willing to go into an airport that has no commercial air service (St. Augustine), the would they be willing to do that at other small airports without service/TSA.

Because for me, following the SGJ frame of mind, LAL (which I think has TSA?) makes more sense than SFB
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
APFPilot1985
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Or how about Naples (APF)

We have service to ATL on EV and it does very well, however we also have a maximum weight limit of 75,000 pounds and the authority is very firm on this.
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tbolt1
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 22):
Keep in mind, the point of the thread:

If they are willing to go into an airport that has no commercial air service (St. Augustine), the would they be willing to do that at other small airports without service/TSA.

Because for me, following the SGJ frame of mind, LAL (which I think has TSA?) makes more sense than SFB

I have heard LAL as well because they can market more than 1 city that way.
"You can be my wingman anytime."
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:22 am

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 14):
According to their website, in 2004 PIE had 1,333,069 passengers, in 2006 it was 389,997. That's pretty sad. There's only 80 flights a week out of PIE between Allegiant and USA 3000, and seasonal Canada service only amounted to another 5 flights a week.

2004 was an extreme peak at PIE, 2006 a 15 year low. Typically it has been in the 700,000-800,000 passenger range over the last 10 to 20 years. It will probably finish this year around 600,000 to 700,000, getting closer to normal. They already have handled over 300,000 passengers from Jan to May 2007.

I see they are adding jetways and more passenger space. The remodeling also includes a 2 story space with a glass wall facing the ramp. Sounds like Noah Lagos remembers that glass wall feature from his days at FAT.
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/26/No...nellas/_Other__airport_gets_.shtml
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Skybus will be flying to St. Augustine, Fl., marketed as Jacksonville/Daytona Beach

This brings up interesting speculation:

Are other airports in Florida w/ no airline service under consideration?

Someone brought up LAL for Tampa/Orlando

What about VRB for Melbourne/West Palm Beach

Punta Gorda for Sarasota/Ft. Myers

Or how about Naples (APF)

Lake City?

Ocala marketed as Orlando/Tampa?

Any airports south of MIA? Kendall?

Come on, some of these are just rediculous.

LAL could work - They would need to build some sort of terminal though. Nice strategic location between theme parks and Tampa area, and as someone said closer than SFB.

VRB - same goes, if it could get FAR Part 139 Certification. The Vero Beach, St. Lucie, Fort Pierce area is a very quick growing area and an alternate to PBI

Punta Gorda - Too small, still recovering from Hurricane Charley too I think. No reason to not use RSW.

APF - Will NEVER happen, too many NIMBYs. Remember their whole thing about banning Stage II aircraft a few years back? Yeah I know A319s are hardly Stage II, but the Naples area is full of rich folk who don't want noise and you can't convince them that an A319 is a relatively quiet plane.

Lake City - haha, thats a good one. Who goes to Lake City? What is the attraction there that would fill an A319? Why not just fly to Gainesville, at least you have a college there.

Ocala does not even have a control tower the last I knew. You won't be able to bring in scheduled commercial service with a plane that big until a tower is built. Yes Ocala can handle large jets as cargo 727s and stuff come in for Race horse charters. Again, why not just use Gainesville.

South of Miami - the old Homestead AFB. There has been talk of turning that into another airport for Miami once MIA reaches capacity.

Quoting Sacamojus (Reply 6):
Except for some construction on I-4 the drive would not be bad if you take to the Polk Parkway to I-4.

Well the construction on I-4 is pretty much done, they opened the 3rd lane each way last summer between Tampa and Orlando. The only place where there is construction now around I-4 is the I-4 and Highway 192 interchange in Kissimmee. People going to the Disney parks coming from Lakeland etc would use the exit before to get to Disney anyway.



Airports I could see Skybus using in FLA:

SFB - for Orlando
PIE - for Tampa
JAX
Fort Walton Beach or New Panama City Airport when it opens
RSW or SRQ
PBI or FLL
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 19):
The 319 isn't any louder than the F-5's and E-2's that operate out of there....then again, leave it to the NIMBY's to screw it up...

The NIMBYs only see that an A319 is considerably bigger than those military planes, and in NIMBY logic, bigger=louder, as dumb as that is.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 3):
He advised us it would take equally as long to make the drive from St. Augustine to Jacksonville (it took roughly an hour going southbound the previous day), so we opted for A1A, and it was just as slow, taking over an hour

A1A goes through beach community after beach community, so obviously the average speed limit is pretty low. You'd have been better off using US-1, as most of the time it isn't too full, plus the speed limits are higher.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:35 pm

Announced in the Florida Today (after I emailed them USA3000's schedule). Fair use:

Currently, Delta Air Lines operates five daily roundtrip flights from Melbourne to Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. Atlantic Southeast Airlines offers one daily flight to Washington, D.C. Baer Air and Vintage Props & Jets also serve Melbourne.

Melbourne airport officials also are trying to get US Airways to begin flights from Melbourne International to Charlotte Douglas International Airport in Charlotte, N.C.

USA3000 already has a Florida presence, with routes to Orlando International Airport, Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport, Southwest Florida International Airport in Fort Myers, Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport and St. Petersburg-Clearwater International Airport.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...=/20070627/BUSINESS/706270320/1003
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
sacamojus
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 26):
LAL could work - They would need to build some sort of terminal though. Nice strategic location between theme parks and Tampa area, and as someone said closer than SFB.

LAL already has a terminal, a very nice one at that. The last time I was there, it was two stories with a restaurant, fairly large seating area, and an observation deck. I would love to see LAL served by somebody, not beause I am from Lakeland, because they are in the middle of Orlando and Tampa with very easy access to both. Lakeland is not a small town either, and with the surrounding areas of Winter Haven, Plant City, Mulberry, Lake Wales, and Sebring that attract huge snowbirds from Ohio (God I wish they would just stay up north!!!!!!!) it has to atleast warrant seasonal service.
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 26):
Come on, some of these are just rediculous.

So is Chicopee MA, but they are still flying there. I would think that any airport within a 2 hour drive of a large population center is a option.
The voice of moderation
 
SkyyMaster
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Apodino (Reply 21):
If they are going to go to Orlando, I am surprised no one has mentioned SFB for them. SFB is the perfect airport for Skybus.

I'm guessing Allegiant would put up a pretty good fight at SFB. They seem well entrenched there and I would guess they'd add CMH if the Bus did come to town. When you throw in MCO, that city is pretty well covered by LCC's. As someone said, Titusville would work. As would Lakeland. I beleive both are about the same distance form Orlando.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:58 pm

Is LAL closer to Disney than SFB? How long is the runway at LAL?
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:22 am

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 31):
I'm guessing Allegiant would put up a pretty good fight at SFB

I think G4 must be the most misunderstood operation on this forum. G4's sole purpose is to bring tourists from smaller cities throughout the country to Orlando (or Las Vegas and St. Pete). They are trying to establish some sort of hub & spoke airline with services that compete with other airlines. SX flying CMH-SFB does not affect G4 at all. G4 considers any SFB originating passengers simply to be a plus...they don't bank on them. They make their money by selling hotel rooms, rental cars etc. in their focus-city destinations (SFB, LAS, PIE, seasonally RNO, PSP, and now FLL). Everything I have read/heard down here in Orlando suggests that their flight operation is essentially a break-even deal for the parent company Allegiant Vacations. G4 will not add CMH because SX shows up, nor would G4 be adding CMH at any point because it is already well-served by the larger airlines. G4 is out there looking for middle sized markets that are not served/underserved, where their niche will work.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 32):
Is LAL closer to Disney than SFB? How long is the runway at LAL?

Looks to be about the same distance. MLB is about the same also.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:35 am

MLB is a good 90 minute drive for tourists to Disney World. It could be shorter by using US Hwy 192, but I doubt most tourists would be directed to 192, instead they'd be directed -- I-95 to SR-528 (toll road) to SR-417 (toll road).

LAL is about 50 miles on I-4...depends solely on traffic. I've had that take 2 hours+ because of a wreck, and I've had it take 30 minutes.

SFB is about 50 miles on SR-417 (toll road). It's low traffic outside of rush hour (though getting more crowded by the day  Sad) and an easy drive for tourists to make. Tolls from SFB amount to $5.00 even I believe.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 35):
MLB is a good 90 minute drive for tourists to Disney World. It could be shorter by using US Hwy 192, but I doubt most tourists would be directed to 192, instead they'd be directed -- I-95 to SR-528 (toll road) to SR-417 (toll road).

Once 192 is a four lane road, it will be an hour. Plus MLB already has a underutilized terminal and indoor plumbing.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
jetlanta
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 36):

Once 192 is a four lane road, it will be an hour. Plus MLB already has a underutilized terminal and indoor plumbing.

MLB is hidden gem. Someday a brave LCC is going to figure it out. They are a little intimidated by the proximately to MCO and the checkered past. But one of them will make a move eventually. I'm not sure that USA3000 is the answer, but it may be the impetus. The upside is enormous.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 37):

MLB would work fine with tourists once the 192 expansion is done, but I can't see folks from Orlando driving to MLB for flights unless the price is extremely good. I have a feeling that most Orlando residents would be more likely to drive to SFB and exceptionally unlikely to drive to LAL for anything but the absolute best deal.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 38):
I have a feeling that most Orlando residents would be more likely to drive to SFB and exceptionally unlikely to drive to LAL for anything but the absolute best deal.

$10 fare? I'd say that's the best deal. Big grin
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 26):
APF - Will NEVER happen, too many NIMBYs. Remember their whole thing about banning Stage II aircraft a few years back? Yeah I know A319s are hardly Stage II, but the Naples area is full of rich folk who don't want noise and you can't convince them that an A319 is a relatively quiet plane

APF's runways are 5290' and 5000'

Skybus flying weight restricted flights out of APF to CMH would never work either. Skybus needs to fill those cheap seats.

Off topic, but anyone know if EV's CRJ flights from APF to ATL are weight restricted?
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 39):
$10 fare? I'd say that's the best deal.

Sure, if you can get one of 'em. Big grin
 
jetlanta
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 38):

MLB would work fine with tourists once the 192 expansion is done, but I can't see folks from Orlando driving to MLB for flights unless the price is extremely good. I have a feeling that most Orlando residents would be more likely to drive to SFB and exceptionally unlikely to drive to LAL for anything but the absolute best deal.

MLB doesn't need the Orlando residents. It needs some of the 80% of its own regional traffic that uses MCO to stay home. More importantly, it needs some of the thousands of tourists that come to visit the region to use MLB instead. They will, it's simply a function of capacity and fares. That is why a reputable LCC is so important.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:09 am

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 30):
So is Chicopee MA, but they are still flying there. I would think that any airport within a 2 hour drive of a large population center is a option.

What is a large population center within 2 hours of Lake City? Maybe Jacksonville, but Jacksonville isn't even that big of a population center when you think of it at least to warrant that far of a drive.

Quoting Sacamojus (Reply 29):
LAL already has a terminal, a very nice one at that. The last time I was there, it was two stories with a restaurant, fairly large seating area, and an observation deck. I would love to see LAL served by somebody, not beause I am from Lakeland, because they are in the middle of Orlando and Tampa with very easy access to both. Lakeland is not a small town either, and with the surrounding areas of Winter Haven, Plant City, Mulberry, Lake Wales, and Sebring that attract huge snowbirds from Ohio (God I wish they would just stay up north!!!!!!!) it has to atleast warrant seasonal service.

Isn't LAL's terminal more of an executive terminal for an FBO? I don't remember it having gates, so they would probably have to use air stairs.

Isn't a lot of Lakeland's population snowbirds from Detroit going down there to see the Tigers during Spring training?

Lakeland would be an ideal spot I think again due to its location and that the I-4 corridor between Tampa and Orlando is growing. There are a lot of houses/condos going up in Osceola and Polk County along I-4.
Lakeland is in a strategic location though. It may be easier for some people who live in the Tampa suburbs like Branden etc to travel to Lakeland, than to battle the traffic and construction along I-4 and 275 where they have the widening project going on near Ybor City and Downtown Tampa. The same could be said for the people who live in houses/condos just south and west of Disney like around I-4 and U.S. 27, where it would almost be as convenient to drive to LAL as it is to drive to MCO.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 27):
The NIMBYs only see that an A319 is considerably bigger than those military planes, and in NIMBY logic, bigger=louder, as dumb as that is.

If you've ever been near an EA-6B Prowler, with those old J52's, you know what loud is....the 319 aint got nothing on it. But of course it'll all be blamed on Skybus.

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 36):
Once 192 is a four lane road, it will be an hour. Plus MLB already has a underutilized terminal and indoor plumbing.

And one crappy little restaraunt to it's name...outside the sterile area no less.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
CitrusCritter
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:13 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 42):
MLB doesn't need the Orlando residents. It needs some of the 80% of its own regional traffic that uses MCO to stay home. More importantly, it needs some of the thousands of tourists that come to visit the region to use MLB instead. They will, it's simply a function of capacity and fares. That is why a reputable LCC is so important.

Any idea what the breakdown of Brevard County originating traffic is in the use of MLB, MCO, PBI, and perhaps DAB?
 
beefstew25
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 45):

Any idea what the breakdown of Brevard County originating traffic is in the use of MLB, MCO, PBI, and perhaps DAB?

No idea. But the prevailing thought around here:

1) Fly out of MLB for business (company pays for it)
2) Fly out of MCO for pleasure (when out of your own pocket or using miles)

I was up in ATL for the day for work last week. From the time the plane parked to gate to me starting my car, it took 6 minutes. That is why the growth of MLB is a double-edged sword. But, in the end, you must connect in Altanta.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1493
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 45):
Any idea what the breakdown of Brevard County originating traffic is in the use of MLB, MCO, PBI, and perhaps DAB?

As a matter of fact, I do. Though this also includes Indian River County and northern St. Lucie County:

About 83% of the market is leaked to other airports.

75.4% uses MCO
6.9% uses PBI
1.0% uses SFB
less than 1.0% uses DAB

MLB retains about 16%.

This data is from the Sabre Airline Solutions January 2005 MLB Assessment, so it is a bit dated, but MLB has actually lost service since, while the other airports have gained. So it is probably even worse now.

As a note, this only reflects OUTBOUND originating traffic. It does not include people visiting the region.

The real issue here is that MLB and DAB were very adversely affected by the growth of LCC's into MCO in the late 90's. WN, FL, B6 and others (along with Delta Express, MetroJet, Song, Ted, etc...) brought fares down so low that traditional network carriers could not make profits at smaller airports like MLB. And, in fact, during that period before 9/11, RJ's were not all that common at network carriers other than DL. So when US and AA pulled out, they really had nothing to replace mainline with. Besides the fares were too low to be economical on an RJ at the necessary stage lengths.

After 9/11 CO and NK dropped MLB at the same time. NK was a horrible operator that adversely affected fares in the NYC market. For example, at that time NK's average fare in the FLL-LGA market was 20% than the average of other carriers. That phenomenon affected the MLB-NYC market as well, to the point that there was no reason for CO to stay in MLB after 9/11, since there was no fare premium to enjoy. I suspect if CO had known NK was puling out, they might have made a better go of it.

Now since all of this played out, there have been a number of changes in the marketplace. Fares overall have risen, even for LCC's. Also, LCC's are still growing and are now engaging in turf battles. As a result, we are seeing some LCC's branch out into smaller Florida markets, such as DAB and SRQ. Those carriers are discovering long-lost markets that people forgot existed due to growth at bigger airports. FL and B6 are both very encouraged by their forays into these markets.

MLB's big problem is that it has very poor name recognition and that isn't know as a tourist town. Of course there are many tourist activities in the region (KSC, Port Canaveral, Vero Beach, Cocoa Beach), but airline planners simply don't think travelers make the connection. As a result, they are more reluctant to start in MLB than in a community like DAB with a flashier tourist name.

Of course, on the other hand, MLB has perhaps the strongest business traffic mix of any midsize airport in Florida. It also has one of the nation's best performing economies. Eventually all of this will become evident to the planners at some decent size LCC and you will see some phenomenal growth at MLB. I think the USA3000 service could be something that triggers that recognition. (Despite its limited scope)

It is my personal opinion that Skybus should be looking at MLB before any other airport in Florida. They could own the market (2.25M people within 90 mins + 70 miles on 192 to Disney with no tolls) and have virtually unlimited infrastructure to grow the operation. Not to mention that it is one of the cheapest airports in the country to operate at.

But I guess we'll have to wait for someone to see the light.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 45):
Any idea what the breakdown of Brevard County originating traffic is in the use of MLB, MCO, PBI, and perhaps DAB?

I don't have any numbers, but don't forget some also may use SFB.

I really see the use of PBI being low out of Brevard County - that is a good 2-3 hour or more trip depending on traffic on I-95. I don't see planes flying out of PBI, even Southwest as being cheap enough to spend the gas money and time to drive down to PBI, when MCO is closer and usually a cheaper market.

I would think the majority of flights out of MLB would originate in Brevard County - Melbourne and Cocoa Beach mainly.

If passengers found a better deal with Air Tran out of DAB to ATL or BWI, then they might use DAB over MCO. I could see northernmost Brevard County using DAB - like Titusville, Mims etc.

I could see some people in Brevard using SFB if they found a good deal on Allegiant Air, like when they sometimes have those $58 one way fares
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Skybus To St Aug!... Other Secondary Fla Airports?

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:41 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 44):
If you've ever been near an EA-6B Prowler, with those old J52's, you know what loud is....the 319 aint got nothing on it. But of course it'll all be blamed on Skybus.

Oh believe me, I know just how f'n load those old military jets can be, my ears are still ringing from an airshow at Maxwell AFB, Montogomery back in 1986  Silly . But as said, NIMBYs only look at the size of the plane, they don't listen to the sound. Stupid attitude, but then again, we can't expect anything else from them.

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