celestar
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China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:02 pm

Just heard from local news in Taiwan, apparently, there was a China Airlines A330-300 flying from Kaohsiung to Hong Kong, with both engines experienced in-flight shut down. The news stated this occur for about one minute before engine were re-started. It is very scary as both engines should not be experiencing this failure mode. The news then stated that China Airlines as well as EVA both has since updated the software from GE to all its engine on the A330 fleet.
Do anyone knows more details about this news? What does software got to do with such failure?

By the way, this news was from someone internal to China Airlines and this incident happened recently.
 
kaitak
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:12 pm

There was a snippet in the news section recently, saying just that the Taiwanese CAA is investigating the incident.

Given the reliability of modern engines, and the GE CF6-80C2 is among the most reliable, a single failure is extremely unlikely, but a double engine failure is very much moreso, unless there was some fault in the fuel system or related systems.

I know many airlines, among them our own Aer Lingus, have been operating GE powered A330s for a lot longer than CI and have never experienced a similar problem.
 
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Qatara340
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:19 pm

Didnt QR experience a similar situation with their double flame-out on their then brand-new A332 on Shanghi last year?
I believe it also has GE engines.
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LTU932
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
Given the reliability of modern engines, and the GE CF6-80C2 is among the most reliable, a single failure is extremely unlikely, but a double engine failure is very much moreso, unless there was some fault in the fuel system or related systems.

GE powered A330s actually use the CF6-80E1 and not the C2 version. So the reliability question lies with the CF6-80E1, which isn't as established in the market as the PW4168A and Trent 772 are.
 
EDDB
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting Celestar (Thread starter):
What does software got to do with such failure?

Probably everything! With an all engine flame out, there are only 3 possible causes...
1. external damage (birdstrike on both, volcanic ash, severe icing, and so on) - unlikely in this case
2. fuel shortage (greetings from Air Transat!) - totally unlikely since they restarted them
3. software bug - most probably since the other possibilities can be ruled out

Todays engines are controlled by a computer called FADEC which is attached to the engine with all the other accessories (accessory gear box), and FADEC gets its commands from the primary flight computers! Since we all know that computers need to be programmed and human beings do make mistakes, things like the above can happen and do happen, or as an Airbus chief technician once said:"Bullshit in, bullshit out..."
I just hope things like this wont happen while crossing the atlantic or pacific or on airway L888 over central asia....
 
kaitak
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:40 pm

Silly me - yes, of course, I should have said '80E1. But they are very reliable anyway.
 
Burkhard
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:53 pm

I bet for an unforessen situation in the software. Software is called software because it cannot be made hard. Every computer system is subject to failure - all you can do is to reduce the probability it happens, and to provide backups to avoid software bugs to lead to a desaster - but even that may fail.

This said, it is a fact that modern software seems to have less failures than modern humans - so no way back to flight engineer looking at the engines to turn.
 
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Revelation
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:22 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
Software is called software because it cannot be made hard.

Umm, no. If you'd like we could all go back to programming computers with wires, like the first computers were. Then it'd be plenty hard, but it'd still be software. Besides, most "hardware" these days is software downloaded into FPGAs or burned into ASICs. This kind of "hardware" has the same kind of defects seen in software: conditions arise that the human designers didn't plan for, or the tool that converted the human logic into machine-usable form had a flaw.

There are forms of hardware and software that can be mathematically proven to be correct but almost no one does so because (a) it's incredibly expensive to do so, and (b) it requires incredibly exact specifications to be generated, and if the specifications are incorrect all the math does is prove that an incorrect specification was programmed correctly.
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HAWK21M
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:36 pm

If this is a Software error.Its serious.Is there an AD issued.
regds
MEL
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Burkhard
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
There are forms of hardware and software that can be mathematically proven to be correct but almost no one does so because (a) it's incredibly expensive to do so, and (b) it requires incredibly exact specifications to be generated, and if the specifications are incorrect all the math does is prove that an incorrect specification was programmed correctly.

That is exactly my message. Only if all input parameters of a system are known, software can be provided for all of them. This includes details like Who is sitting where with which electronic equipment switched on doing what, what's the weather, etc. In real life I never came across a situation were the specifications were better than an advanced guess of what might happen and be relevant, combined with some assumed worst case scenarios and some random noise/errors mixed in. Most problems arise when an input is ignored as irrelevant that isn't. Not saying that I have seen many programs that act as specified always...
 
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Revelation
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 9):
That is exactly my message. Only if all input parameters of a system are known, software can be provided for all of them. This includes details like Who is sitting where with which electronic equipment switched on doing what, what's the weather, etc. In real life I never came across a situation were the specifications were better than an advanced guess of what might happen and be relevant, combined with some assumed worst case scenarios and some random noise/errors mixed in. Most problems arise when an input is ignored as irrelevant that isn't. Not saying that I have seen many programs that act as specified always...

Thanks for the clarification. I should not have keyed off the statement

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
Software is called software because it cannot be made hard.

.. instead of your main point ..

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
I bet for an unforessen situation in the software.
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zeke
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting Celestar (Thread starter):

Do anyone knows more details about this news? What does software got to do with such failure?

Only aware of one incident, that was QR, the flight international article is http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...shanghai-believed-to-be-types.html

If something happened today, I would not be surprised, Wx was not the best in the area. Often see temperature changes of over 15 degrees in less than a second associated with the heavy supercooled rain.

Airbus let everyone know what happened in that QR event, this is the operator telex....

Quote:
TO: ALL A330 OPERATORS

SUBJECT: ATA 72 - A330 DUAL ENGINE FLAME OUT

OUR REF: SE 999.0069/JS dated 09 JUNE 2006

CLASSIFICATION: INCIDENT - ADVICE (FLIGHT OPERATIONS)

REFERENCE
- OIT SE 999.0067/06/JS dated 02 JUNE 2006

1. PURPOSE

The purpose of OIT/FOT is to provide latest update and to provide operational
recommendations on the dual engine flame out event reported through
OIT ref. SE 999.0067/06/JS dated 02 JUNE 2006.

2. EVENT DESCRIPTION

On 1 June 2006 an A330-200 aircraft, equipped with General Electric (GE) CF6-80E1
engines, experienced a dual engine flame out during descent around flight level 200.
Both engines quickly recovered and a safe landing was performed.

3. INVESTIGATION STATUS

The investigation into this event is led by the Investigation Authorities with assistance from
Airbus. The investigation is still in its early stages, however, DFDR preliminary analysis has
shown that:
- During descent, while engines started to accelerate for aircraft altitude capture, both engines
flamed out simultaneously.
- Both engines automatically relit after flame out, and recovered within approximately 45 seconds.
- Engine Anti Ice had been selected ON during the descent, and Wing Anti Ice had been
selected ON shortly prior to the event.
- Aircraft systems behavior was normal including automatic RAT extension.

Boroscope inspections have been performed on both engines without significant findings.

Based on the above, the initial Airbus/GE view is that this event is similar to other power loss
events at altitudes above 10 000 ft attributed to inclement weather as experienced on CF6-80
engines installed on various aircraft types.

The aircraft returned to service on 7 June 06.

4. OPERATIONAL RECOMMENDATIONS

Waiting for final investigation results, in order to increase the fuel/air ratio in the engine so as
to mitigate the possibility of experiencing an engine flame out, the following provisional
procedure is recommended:

? If inclement weather/icing conditions are expected at any time during descent or if convective activity is identified by the weather radar in the vicinity of the aircraft flight path:


At top of descent:

- ENG ANTI ICE__ON
- WING ANTI ICE_..ON
- PACK FLOW___HI

Below 10000 feet :
Resume normal anti ice and pack flow operation according to weather conditions.

Note that the fuel consumption and the idle thrust will slightly increase when selecting ENG ANTI ICE_ON, WING ANTI ICE_ON, and PACK FLOW_HI.

Final operational recommendations will be implemented in the FCOM/QRH via OEB or TR.
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zeke
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 1):
I know many airlines, among them our own Aer Lingus, have been operating GE powered A330s for a lot longer than CI and have never experienced a similar problem.

Should have added, this engine type has had similar problems on other airframes in heavy rain.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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clickhappy
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:06 pm

Reminds me of when Cathay Pacific and Dragonair had to ground their A330 fleets when the Rolls Royce engines kept shutting down.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:19 pm

Tell you what, Zeke? That both Cathay Pacific and Dragonair grounded their A330 fleets in 1997? Because of multiple in-flight shut downs? I already did tell you that, see Reply 13.

You fly for Cathay Pacific? Ask someone in your office, I'm sure they can tell you all about it.
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 13):
Reminds me of when Cathay Pacific and Dragonair had to ground their A330 fleets when the Rolls Royce engines kept shutting down.

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/frnews/FR970601.htm
 
Qantas744er
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 15):
Tell you what, Zeke? That both Cathay Pacific and Dragonair grounded their A330 fleets in 1997? Because of multiple in-flight shut downs? I already did tell you that, see Reply 13.

You fly for Cathay Pacific? Ask someone in your office, I'm sure they can tell you all about it.

Dont flame me please, but arent u talking about the gear related problem that grounded all 340's 330's ???

Cheers
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yowza
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 2):
Didnt QR experience a similar situation with their double flame-out on their then brand-new A332 on Shanghi last year?
I believe it also has GE engines.

Yes a QR 330, A7-ACJ experienced a dual flameout last year operating Shanghai-Doha on 01.06.06. The pilots were able to restart the engines and continue on without incident to DOH.

This is the bird although I beleive it was wearing the Asian Games livbery when the incident occurred.

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Photo © Ian Heald



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zeke
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 15):
That both Cathay Pacific and Dragonair grounded their A330 fleets in 1997?

Nope, just engines effected in the A/D, it was a gearbox problem that needed to be fixed. The AD is still available on the internet if you want to have a look at it.

Went through a similar process last year on the 777 fleet, 2-3 aircraft out of service at a time.

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 16):
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/frnews/FR970601.htm

The article is not factually correct. We actually cross hired Garuda 330s during the period as well, which were also RR powered.
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clickhappy
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:09 am

So, you are saying that the grounding never happened? That they didn't shut the whole fleet down?

Typical. Ignore the facts and substitute your own. And the disturbing part is people will believe you. Why, because you are a pilot.

If anyone wants to know the facts you can read more here:

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/frnews/FR970601.htm

http://www.yearbook.gov.hk/1997/cal/ecal5.htm

http://www.kls2.com/cgi-bin/arcfetch...%24lpd@chronicle.concentric.net%3E

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlConte...=/archive/1997/05/28/crolls28.html

Your spin is absurd.
 
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zeke
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 20):
Typical. Ignore the facts and substitute your own. And the disturbing part is people will believe you. Why, because you are a pilot.

I was flying them at the time, I think I should know !!!
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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clickhappy
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:20 am

Ah. Well I guess we will ignore major news reports, that some might, pathetically, label as anti-Airbus, and go with your word instead.

The thing is, I can't find any stories retracting or correcting what was reported. I would hope that companies like Rolls Royce and Cathay Pacific would be worried about any bad press, but if you say it never happened, it never happened.

We should alert Guy Norris, too. He in detail about the incidents in his excellent book, Airbus A340 and A330 (Jetliner History).
 
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zeke
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 22):
Ah. Well I guess we will ignore major news reports, that some might, pathetically, label as anti-Airbus, and go with your word instead.

Not at all, I clearly said that the engines effected by the AD were taken out of service, and fixed, and we used Garuda A330s with the same RR engines as interim lift. AFAIK CX/KA now has the world largest fleet of 330s, if they were as troublesome as your are trying to infer, why did we buy another 35 ?

This does not detract from the fact that the RR shutdowns were due to a gearbox problem that could be physically inspected, as the problem was identified after the KA diversion into Clarke. The GE problem seem to be a occurring at times of high bleed demand, in heavy rain, at flight idle, but no physical evidence is available to put a finger on the root cause.

I don't see either incidents being "anti-airbus", they are powerplant related issues that no doubt will be sorted out. The same GE engine series have had similar problems on Boeing aircraft, and other GE series have had similar problems on the CRJ, so the airframe manufacturer does not seem to be the common link here.

All I do see you doing is trying to link a RR gearbox problem that was identified in a RR AD about a decade ago, which has been fixed for a long time now, to a GE engine problem, and then trying to infer its an airframe problem.

I cannot work out your convoluted way of trying to bash airbus.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
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clickhappy
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:57 am

I'm not trying to bash Airbus. Did Airbus make the engines?

All I said was it reminded me of the problem, thats all. The problem was solved in short order, without any long term affects, and I'm sure the same will be done for this GE problem.

Quoting Zeke (Reply 23):
I cannot work out your convoluted way of trying to bash airbus.

That's because it isn't happening. You can't work out something that doesn't exist.
 
Molykote
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting EDDB (Reply 4):
Todays engines are controlled by a computer called FADEC which is attached to the engine with all the other accessories (accessory gear box), and FADEC gets its commands from the primary flight computers! Since we all know that computers need to be programmed and human beings do make mistakes, things like the above can happen and do happen, or as an Airbus chief technician once said:"Bullshit in, bullshit out..."
I just hope things like this wont happen while crossing the atlantic or pacific or on airway L888 over central asia....

I'd like to clarify a misue of terminology here that (as a propulsion engineer) is a pet peeve of mine:

There is no component (on any engine I have worked with from GE/RR/PW) called a "FADEC".

FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) is a design architecture by which engines are governed and controlled by a modern digital/electronic computer system (rather than a hydromechanical computer as has been used in the past).

If I could revise the other user's post above, I would state that "Modern jet engines use a FADEC control system architecture. At the heart of this control system is the EEC/ECU, which is the main computer responsible for the processing of input parameters as well as the resulting output/actuation commands directed to other control system components". (Perhaps I could phrase this slightly better but for the sake of illustrating the misue of the "FADEC" terminology I believe this will suffice).

Some people (even those in the aviation profession) improperly refer to the EEC or ECU as "the FADEC".
i.e "We changed the FADEC and the problem went away."

Here are some engine examples where the gap was bridged between hydromechanical and digital engine control:

- The RB211-535E4 (757) had a supervisory EEC but as this component served a "supervisory" function the engine was not "Full Authority Digital".

- The CF6-80C2 (767_could be had with either the FADEC control system architecture or the older MEC/PMC control system on an otherwise identical engine.

- The CFM56 (737) initially existed as an MEC/PMC design but the later -5 and -7 variants were adapted to a FADEC control system architecture (in addition to many other changes being made for later CFM56 models).
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
trex8
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:36 am

does a "transient" shut down count as an engine shut down for etops qualification???
does CI do etops???
 
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zeke
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 26):
does CI do etops???

I think they take some of their 330 aircraft to Australia, which would partially be ETOPS.
We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
 
boo25
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:51 am

Hope they get these problems diagnosed/sorted fast - not a good prospect on a twin!

Am i right in thinking that some 777's had a similar problem in recnet times, where the affected engine was running down during the take-off roll or am i imagining things ?!
 
DCrawley
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 25):
I know this is going to get me banned BUT..



"This forum is as good as you make it. Never post a message in anger. Take the high road and others will follow."

::edited for language::

[Edited 2007-06-28 22:31:20]
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
darkblue
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:07 am

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2007/06/28/2003367145

"The situation, however, was unknown to the flight crew as well as passengers for the entire duration of the flight. While the flight captain was aware of an abnormality, he was oblivious to the fact that the flame in the two engines had died out."

Also, the software issue is not a bug in the FADEC. Basically, it is an update to the FADEC to open the VBVs more during inclement weather. Engine flameouts during idle descent in inclement weather is a well known issue with CF6 engines and often occurs without the flight crew knowing about it. GE solved the problem with a modification to the engine control. China Airlines had not yet implemented the update, but according to the article, they now have. End of story.
 
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yowza
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 19):
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/frnews/FR970601.htm

http://www.yearbook.gov.hk/1997/cal/ecal5.htm

http://www.kls2.com/cgi-bin/arcfetch...%24lpd@chronicle.concentric.net%3E

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/htmlConte....html

None of these are reliable sources. All but the Telegraph are littered with spelling and grammatical errors and as we all know the media don't often if ever get things totally right with respect to aviation related stories.

YOWza
 
wrldwndrer
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:38 am

There's a number of possible failure modes that can lead to engine flameout (that's why auto-relight logic is a fundamental function of every FADEC). I doubt it's a FADEC software issue. By design engines (and their control systems) are segregated systems. That is because a failure mode (ex. a "bug") in one system should be, at a system level, be extremely unlikely to occur in another system and not lead to catastrophic loss of the entire aircraft. The FADEC software would have been fully tested under all normal operating modes. Whatever abnormal operating mode caused one engine to flameout would have a miniscule possibility of occuring on the second engine. Having said that, there are commonalities between both engines. Both use fuel for instance. Both use (essentially) the same source of air.
So things like empty fuel tanks (the "Gimley Glider" B757 that ran out of fuel), and icing at the inlet can lead to dual engine failures.

However, there might be software issues at the aircraft level that went undetected until now. This might be due to airframe/engine integration issues. The "fix" might be a FADEC software change, or a software change in another avionic system (the fuel management computer comes to mind).
 
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flylku
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting EDDB (Reply 4):
Probably everything! With an all engine flame out, there are only 3 possible causes...
1. external damage (birdstrike on both, volcanic ash, severe icing, and so on) - unlikely in this case
2. fuel shortage (greetings from Air Transat!) - totally unlikely since they restarted them
3. software bug - most probably since the other possibilities can be ruled out

...or someone shut them off. Pilots and visitors to the cockpit have been known to do some crazy things.

Also, what about those guys who took the CRJ to 410 and lost it. Did on the ferry flight. Did the engines quit or did they get into a stall from which they could not recover?
...are we there yet?
 
Skyweasy82
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:14 am

Mr. molykote the GE CF-34-8C series has a FADEC. That is why you will get EICAS msgs such as " R FADEC FAULT 1 or 2". It is on the CRJ-700/900. If you say there is no such thing as a FADEC why would GE and Bombardier put in their manuals as a fault, also I have done software mods on CRJ A/C that improve FADEC control to the VG actuators and all manuals reference the computer as a FADEC.
 
darkblue
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Wrldwndrer (Reply 31):
There's a number of possible failure modes that can lead to engine flameout (that's why auto-relight logic is a fundamental function of every FADEC). I doubt it's a FADEC software issue. By design engines (and their control systems) are segregated systems. That is because a failure mode (ex. a "bug") in one system should be, at a system level, be extremely unlikely to occur in another system and not lead to catastrophic loss of the entire aircraft. The FADEC software would have been fully tested under all normal operating modes. Whatever abnormal operating mode caused one engine to flameout would have a miniscule possibility of occuring on the second engine. Having said that, there are commonalities between both engines. Both use fuel for instance. Both use (essentially) the same source of air.
So things like empty fuel tanks (the "Gimley Glider" B757 that ran out of fuel), and icing at the inlet can lead to dual engine failures.

However, there might be software issues at the aircraft level that went undetected until now. This might be due to airframe/engine integration issues. The "fix" might be a FADEC software change, or a software change in another avionic system (the fuel management computer comes to mind).

As I said before, the flame-out was not due to an issue with the software. It was an operability issue that occurs during inclement weather. All CF6-80C2 and -80E1 engines have been getting a software update to modify the engine control for idle descent during inclement weather conditions. China Airlines had not yet implemented the update.
 
Molykote
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RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Skyweasy82 (Reply 33):
Mr. molykote the GE CF-34-8C series has a FADEC. That is why you will get EICAS msgs such as " R FADEC FAULT 1 or 2". It is on the CRJ-700/900. If you say there is no such thing as a FADEC why would GE and Bombardier put in their manuals as a fault, also I have done software mods on CRJ A/C that improve FADEC control to the VG actuators and all manuals reference the computer as a FADEC.

Clearly I was mistaken.

Although I did disclaim my post as below, I can see how my initial comments may have appeared a bit brash.

Quoting Molykote (Reply 24):
There is no component (on any engine I have worked with from GE/RR/PW) called a "FADEC".

Unfortunately I have never worked with a CF34 and haven't seen a manual identifying the component. However, the FAA TCDS does provide a part number for a Lockheed Martin component called a "FADEC" as you state. I found this surprising so I poked around at some other (newer) engines and also learned that the GE90 has a singular component called a "FADEC".

I'd imagine this reflects a change in nomenclature for GEAE on recent models. I looked at some other later model engine TCDSs (PW 4000, EA GP 7200, Trent 800) and couldn't find another reference for a component called a "FADEC". Given this information, I'd expect the GEnx will likely have a component called a "FADEC" as well (while other manufacturers continue with the traditional EEC/ECU nomenclature).

Skyweasy82, thanks for the info on the CF34.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
celestar
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2001 11:37 am

RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:28 pm

Read further article update this week on locat Taiwan newspaper.

" The incident of this A330 happened by mid May time frame this year. Till now, there has been nine incident of engine shutdown on GE engine within China Airlines" Can someone confirm this? This seems extremely high occurance to me.
GE has agreed to send on-station engineer to monitor the situation but their staff will not be based in CI till October.
The article also stated while all software update has been completed with the A330 fleet. The other CI aircraft, mainly B747 pax and freight version, will wait till Oct to finish this software update. If I read properly, "Chine Airlines believe on multiple engines aircraft, the occurance of engine shut down is less of a risk to safety " Well, if you know you have a risk, you fix the problem irregardless what kind of redundancy you have! I simply cannot understand this statement from CI.

One other question, is EVA uses the same version of the GE engine? Have anyone knows of EVA engine shut down issues? BTW, if my memory recalls, when CI announce the decision for A330, one of the key surprise was the choice of engine. Apparently, this version of GE engine was very new to the A330. I am not sure if my memory is correct but please correct me. RR nearly won that engine deal and hence there was much discussion about that choice of engine in Taiwan.
 
trex8
Posts: 4598
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: China Airlines A330 Both GE Engine Shut Down

Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:09 am

CI planes use the CF6-80E1-A4, BR the higher thrust A3. The A3 and A4 had been certified on the A332 but not the A333 when CI selected it. Till CIs order, only A2s had been certified by Airbus on the A333. There is some hardware difference - turbine nozzle material , but mostly software, rating plug differences.

The 747s CF6-80-C2 is quite different to the -E1.

The media reports then were that RR may have had the edge technically but ultimately according to CI, RR's submitted proposal did not meet the maintenance requirements, Pratts proposal was far more expensive, so GE was chosen(Actually a little bird told me Pratt was told to shove off due to the ROC government being p...... off over its handling of a F16 engine problem)