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1337Delta764
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Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:39 am

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...06-10-santa-fe-regional-jets_N.htm

Could this really be a major milestone for the Santa Fe Municipal Airport? SAF has been a rather neglected airport, with most people choosing to fly into ABQ instead. The only current service that SAF offers is on Great Lakes Airlines to Denver on Beechcraft 1900D aircraft. Pacific Wings subsidiary New Mexico Airlines intends on starting connection service from SAF to ABQ on Cessna Caravan aircraft, however, that route has flopped in the past when Mesa used to operate the route. While the Cessna Caravan may be more appropriately sized than the Beech 1900D for the route, the upcoming extension of the New Mexico Rail Runner Express may kill the route. I am pretty sure that fares for the Rail Runner will be much cheaper than any airfare to ABQ.

The City of Santa Fe envisions potential routes to Dallas and to Los Angeles on RJs. However, I personally believe that they should better advertise the airport before any new routes to major hubs begin. Currently, Great Lakes codeshares with United and Frontier on the SAF-DEN route, but if the service expansion turns out to be a success, United just might upgrade the SAF-DEN route to RJs.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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graphic
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:41 am

That airport probably couldn't support anything more than 1 RJ a day to DEN or DFW.
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Tornado82
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:45 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
The only current service that SAF offers is on Great Lakes Airlines to Denver on Beechcraft 1900D aircraft.

Considering it's DEN and codeshared with UA... a Dash 8 and/or E120 would be a better first step before the high CASM RJ's. As for DFW/LAX, is 8342' going to be long enough for an RJ at an airport that is 6348' high? Summertime density altitudes have to be insanely high.
 
Boston92
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Dash 8

No  no 

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
E120

Yes  yes 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Considering it's DEN and codeshared with UA... a Dash 8 and/or E120 would be a better first step before the high CASM RJ's

Actually, UA considered that a few years ago, but those plans have seemed to have been abandoned. About a year later, Great Lakes Airlines considered ending the SAF-DEN service, but the city fought hard to keep it.

Didn't there used to be SAF-PHX service in the late 1990s? If the service expansion is a success, I wouldn't be suprised if the route would make a return. An SAF-SLC route on Delta Connection/SkyWest might also work.
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FATFlyer
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 4:42 am

ExpressJet is supposed to be starting SAF-LAX as DLConn. This thread has a post that it was already internally announced with the public announcement coming soon. See reply # 34
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3469933
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Evan767
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 5):
ExpressJet is supposed to be starting SAF-LAX as DLConn. This thread has a post that it was already internally announced with the public announcement coming soon. See reply # 34

Can't wait to fly on that, my family has always wanted to go to Santa Fe.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
DesertAir
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Didn't there used to be SAF-PHX service in the late 1990s?

America West ran this service.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:47 am

Already loaded into DL's desktop schedule:

SAF-LAX DL7708 dep SAF 8AM arr LAX 9AM
LAX-SAF DL7707 dep LAX 6PM arr SAF 9PM
1X Daily Starting Oct 5
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
rw717
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:59 pm

I smell a Lynx in the air!
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N1120A
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I am pretty sure that fares for the Rail Runner will be much cheaper than any airfare to ABQ.

Yes, and just as fast

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
As for DFW/LAX, is 8342' going to be long enough for an RJ at an airport that is 6348' high?

Absolutely. The CR2ER can do a standard day take off at MTOW from 5800'. DFW and LAX are both well within normal range capabilities of the aircraft, so you are not worried about needing a full load of fuel, and the 2500' buffer aids as well

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 3):
Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
Dash 8

No no

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 2):
E120

Yes

The problem there is that the Brasilia didn't do particularly well with the altitude in Denver. I am sure United would love to have OO operating for them otherwise.
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doug_or
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
The problem there is that the Brasilia didn't do particularly well with the altitude in Denver. I am sure United would love to have OO operating for them otherwise.

Yep. AFAIK all of OO's Brasilias have been withdrawn from DEN.
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Tornado82
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
The CR2ER can do a standard day take off at MTOW from 5800'

A "standard day" takeoff and a takeoff at 6348' elevation on a 90 degree summer day are such drastically different things it's worse than comparing apples and oranges. They're both fruits and have at least that much in common.

You're talking a density altitude that will try to reach for 10,000 feet on the hottest of days at SAF. For instance right now (3:26p MDT on Friday the 29th) they're at 9200' DA. Your figures for the CRJ are SL and ISA. That means the density altitude is ZERO. Airplane performance changes drastically between a 0' DA and 9200' DA.

The CR2 is well known as a runway hog, and that 5800' number is irrelevant to any airport with elevation. Look around here and you'll see a plethora of comments about CRJ's in the Rocky Mountain region being penalized, and those are at airports alot lower than SAF. Someone with intimate knowledge of the CRJ can tell us more, but I'm willing to bet good money that a CRJ is NOT going to be penalty-free out of SAF in the summer, and even the "hot rod" ERJ-145XR has to be cutting it close. I'll be interested to see what the guys from ExpressJet have to say about theirs too once it is up and running.
 
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CV880
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:55 am

In addition to the LAX schedule, there will be 2 SLC departures, one each for OO & XJet/ CRJ & ERJ
 
N1120A
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:31 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 12):

A "standard day" takeoff and a takeoff at 6348' elevation on a 90 degree summer day are such drastically different things it's worse than comparing apples and oranges.

I realize they are two different things and that the CR2 is a runway hog, but LAX-SAF is only 617nm. The aircraft needs nowhere near a full fuel load to make that flight, which significantly mitigates restrictions of economic impact.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:36 am

There will also be an ATL flight.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 8):
Already loaded into DL's desktop schedule:

SAF-LAX DL7708 dep SAF 8AM arr LAX 9AM
LAX-SAF DL7707 dep LAX 6PM arr SAF 9PM
1X Daily Starting Oct 5

Bad timings..this market will be LAX POS..should be like LAX 0900 SAF 1200
SAF 1230 LAX 1330

I can see the potential for service to/from DFW, DEN, SLC,PHX, LAX
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 15):
There will also be an ATL flight.

Youre kidding...I think DL might be overdoing it...SAF is like so many other cities located close to a large successful WN station. It wil lbe tough to get people to change their habits and fly from SAF versus driving from/to ABQ
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 15):
There will also be an ATL flight.

Does a CRJ-200 have the range? I don't know if Delta would be able to fill a CRJ-700 on the route. Delta seasonally flies 757s on ABQ-ATL, but I don't know if passengers would really be willing to fly to Santa Fe from Atlanta.

SLC is quite a possibility, and so is PHX. Maybe CO could make an SAF-IAH route work.
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DeltaMIA
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 16):
Bad timings..this market will be LAX POS..should be like LAX 0900 SAF 1200
SAF 1230 LAX 1330

Not if the XR goes to ATL in between
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commavia
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:32 am

I think that AA Eagle doing 2x daily ERJs DFW-SAF would be quite successful, especially with the ski traffic during the winter.
 
Evan767
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:33 am

I would definitely fly ATL-SAF, always wanted to go there.
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flyingcat
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting DeltaMIA (Reply 15):
There will also be an ATL flight.

Sorry to burst your bubble but it is not happening at least not until SAF has a chance to prove what traffic it can build.
 
N1120A
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RE: Santa Fe Airport (SAF) Upgraded To Allow RJs

Fri Jul 13, 2007 3:03 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 18):

Does a CRJ-200 have the range? I don't know if Delta would be able to fill a CRJ-700 on the route. Delta seasonally flies 757s on ABQ-ATL, but I don't know if passengers would really be willing to fly to Santa Fe from Atlanta.

If DL can be successful to any station from any station, it is ATL because of the sheer hub presence there. Still, I would doubt the CR2's range on that route, as it is more than 400nm longer than out of LAX.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 17):
It wil lbe tough to get people to change their habits and fly from SAF versus driving from/to ABQ

Not only that, but the Railrunner has a station near ABQ, which will make things all the easier
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