A330323X
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US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:39 am

Looks like one of their supporters jumped the gun in filing with the DOT, but see here, a support letter from the Charlotte Regional Visitors Authority, in support of US Airways' proposed direct CLT-PHL-PEK service to begin in 2009.
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LIPZ
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:51 am

Great!
If they get the rights to fly the route, would this be the 1st ever direct (and nonstop) link to Asia from Philadelphia?

[Edited 2007-06-28 22:51:30]
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:56 am

One-Stop Single Flight Number... hmmm..

Does that mean an A320 to PHL and then a A345 to PEK?

Interesting that no times, or equipment was mentioned as with American Airlines application..

Joking... Wouldnt a 744 be an intersting aircraft to add to the US network?


-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
vega
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:11 am

That's because it's not the US DOT application. It's a NC political support document submitted to the DOT. Either the DOT application itself has not yet been formally filed or has not yet been entered into the public DOT data base. Good strategy though - similar to UA's previously awarded application.
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xiaotung
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:13 am

What happens to Shanghai?
 
Clipper136
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 4):
What happens to Shanghai?

2 reasons....

1) Beijing is the Capitol.
2) Closer to PHL and can be operated by the A332s they are expecting in 2009.

PHL-PEK = 5977 NM
PHL-PVG = 6452 NM

Range of A332 = 6700NM


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xiaotung
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:55 am

Yes. I meant US previously was going to apply for Shanghai. Does it mean now they have given up on Shanghai and opted for Beijing?
 
vega
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 5):
Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 4):
What happens to Shanghai?

2 reasons....

1) Beijing is the Capitol.
2) Closer to PHL and can be operated by the A332s they are expecting in 2009.

If US flies to PEK from PHL it will likely acquire and use the optional 340s, not the 332s. The polar route would probably require weight restrictoins for the 332, plus the 343 will be more competitive with the 777/787s - the 332s are too small for a 14 hour ride. From an economy standpoint on such a long route, the 4 engine 343-500 should do OK, compared to the 332 and since cargo will likely be a major revenue source, the 340 is a better choice. US will also likely want to expand to other further Asia destinations if PEK is successful.
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skibum9
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
plus the 343 will be more competitive with the 777/787s

What are you talking about? How is the 343 more competitive with the 777/787? It is less fuel efficient, doesn't have the cargo capacity, and has a smaller width cabin.

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
the 332s are too small for a 14 hour ride

What are you talking about again. It has the same cabin width as the 333, 342, 343, 345 and 346. Are you trying to say thay people now require a longer plane for longer trips.

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
From an economy standpoint on such a long route, the 4 engine 343-500 should do OK

Why do you need 4 engines when a 2 engine bird can support the route more efficiently?
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Flighty
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
If US flies to PEK from PHL it will likely acquire and use the optional 340s, not the 332s. The polar route would probably require weight restrictoins for the 332, plus the 343 will be more competitive with the 777/787s - the 332s are too small for a 14 hour ride. From an economy standpoint on such a long route, the 4 engine 343-500 should do OK, compared to the 332 and since cargo will likely be a major revenue source, the 340 is a better choice. US will also likely want to expand to other further Asia destinations if PEK is successful.

If PHL-PEK is at all possible with the A332, that is the jet I would expect them to use. US does not like to over-equip.

But, it is an open question whether the A332 can really do the route. Weight restrictions are fine for a few years until the A350s arrive.

If that is their strategy, I admit it is very clever!
 
vega
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 8):
Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
plus the 343 will be more competitive with the 777/787s

What are you talking about? How is the 343 more competitive with the 777/787? It is less fuel efficient, doesn't have the cargo capacity, and has a smaller width cabin.

You need to read the entire posting not just snippet's to create an erroneous assumption. My point is the 343-500 is better competition for the 777/787 than the 332 on a 14 Hour trip, both in cargo and passenger capacity.

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 8):
Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
the 332s are too small for a 14 hour ride

What are you talking about again. It has the same cabin width as the 333, 342, 343, 345 and 346. Are you trying to say they people now require a longer plane for longer trips.

That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 8):

Why do you need 4 engines when a 2 engine bird can support the route more efficiently?

Prove it for a 14 hour non-stop flight (332 versus 343-500). Also, Better support comes from more than just fuel burn rate. There is the added benefit of much more cargo and passenger revenue with the "LONGER" plane - check the 332 versus 343-500 stats.
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vega
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:04 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
If PHL-PEK is at all possible with the A332, that is the jet I would expect them to use. US does not like to over-equip.

They may not want to over-equip, but they do want to propose a reasonable and winning solution for the route which the DOT feels merits the award and I do not feel the marginal 332 is it.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
bobnwa
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 10):
That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

What inflight passenger study if any verifies this? Or is this just your preference, if so why?
 
airbazar
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:11 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 10):
There is the added benefit of much more cargo and passenger revenue with the "LONGER" plane - check the 332 versus 343-500 stats.

What exactly is an 343-500? The A345 is a very expensive aircraft to operate especially as a very small sub-fleet. It is a niche aircraft. The A343 is cheaper but it's not that much more efficient than an A332. If the A332 can do the route without significant penalties, that will be the ideal aircraft for US to use. However, I doubt the A332 can be used on such a long route without penalties so maybe US will get a few A343's if they get the rights to fly the route. IIRC, the longest scheduled A332 non-stop route is/was TAM's CDG-GRU which has a planned fuel stop, and that's nearly 900nm shorter than PHL-PEK.
 
ManchesterMAN
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
IIRC, the longest scheduled A332 non-stop route is/was TAM's CDG-GRU which has a planned fuel stop, and that's nearly 900nm shorter than PHL-PEK.

I think the concensus is that AF NRT-CDG is the longest A332 route. Its longer than GRU-CDG anyways.

I think PHL-PEK would be pushing it for a A332 though. I expect them to get A340s of some description if successful.
Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
 
fun2fly
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:13 pm

One of the factors for UA's award IAD>PEK was aircraft size. They had a 347 seat 744. A 200 (approx.) seat 332 will be up against 347 seat 744's from UA and 285 seat 777's from CO and AA's 777's (a fewer seats). So, if aircraft seating is a factor this time, the 340 will be needed. Of course, the govenment can change its past award strategy at anytime.
 
captaink
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 10):

That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

I may have been able to agree with you on the other points, but this one is silly. The comfort really has to do with the particular airlines configuration. A longer plane may just mean more people.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):

What exactly is an 343-500? The A345 is a very expensive aircraft to operate especially as a very small sub-fleet. It is a niche aircraft. The A343 is cheaper but it's not that much more efficient than an A332.

Is the A343 more efficient than the A332? I have much different stories in the past.
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FLYGUY767
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
What exactly is an 343-500?

LOL... Maybe he meant an A340-300 with 500 seats, US Airways could call it Sardine Class..  crowded 

Seriously, what happened to the rumor of US Airways gaining the A340-500 ships?

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
The A345 is a very expensive aircraft to operate especially as a very small sub-fleet. It is a niche aircraft.

 checkmark 

100% Agreed, it is a great plane for a niche market. The only way to have a decent profit margin on the A340-500 would be to have a larger fleet with an extended utilization of long-haul ops such as PHL-HKG, PHX-MNL, PHX-SYD, PHL-BOM. But it is very unlikely that any of those routes will ever happen within the next few years..

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
If the A332 can do the route without significant penalties, that will be the ideal aircraft for US to use.

I would have to disagree it is to small of an aircraft and would be looked down upon due to the limited number of seats offered.

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
If US flies to PEK from PHL it will likely acquire and use the optional 340s, not the 332s.

I have a very strong feeling that they may very well opt for the A340-600, in addition I would expect up to 9 frames.

The plan or so I have heard is for:

PHL-PEK (If unable to gain authority); PHL-HKG
PHX-AKL(*A hub)-(Final destination being Sydney or Melbourne)
PHX-ICN(*A hub)-(Final Destination rumored as DEL, BOM, or SIN(*A hub)).

That would suffice for daily service on all three routes. The question is how expensive would it be to operate a fleet of A340-600 ships? The other thing I would like to mention is that with the advent of the A340-600, if it were to happen could US Airways garner 5th freedom rights to fly from ICN to DEL, BOM, or SIN?

There of course are other grandiose rumors floating around US Airways including:

PHL-NRT or KIX nonstop
PHX-NRT or KIX, nonstop

(These I believe would be much better suited to the operation of an A330-200, or A340-300 however since NRT is slot controlled, and the cost of operating at Osaka is so expensive I could easily see an A340-600 being used for additional capacity, hence not needing a third of fourth flight to the Japanese market).

The US Airways fleet in any case should become very interesting in the next few years.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Flighty
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:31 pm

Phoenix-Asia would be weak. The only Asia feeders at Phoenix are Tucson, San Diego, ABQ and Texas.

PHL's Asia feeders are much stronger. That will be their Asian hub.

The A340-600 would be quite shocking to see at US. We are talking the equivalent of a 773ER or 744. I do not think US has the physical power to support such a large jet.

The biggest US can handle is IMO the A343X. Big jets like the 744 could be very dangerous to US. They do not have the market power to fill it.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:37 pm

The main reason for pushing back the date is because we aren't able to get the aircraft to fly the route in time. They mentioned it to us, saying we would give up this round and wait until next year so we have more time to get a new plane. We have the options to get A340's under the new order, so that would be the aircraft of choice I imagine. They did not say which model though.
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bagoldex
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:41 pm

I know there are not many of them out there, but would the acquisition of a few A340-200's be appropriate for the possible China route?
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
The only Asia feeders at Phoenix are Tucson, San Diego, ABQ and Texas

There are a lot more to add to the list namely:

DEN, COS, SLC, ONT, LGB, SNA, BUR, LAX, RDU, MCO, TPA, FLL, DCA, MEX,
GDL, SJO, STL, MCI, ORD, MKE, MSP, OMA, MSY, ATL, CLT, IND, CLE, CMH,
YYZ, OKC, ICT, DSM. MEM, PIT, DRO, YUM, FAT, SBA, CLD, PSP, BFL, SBP,
SBA, MOD, SMF, RNO

Yes, people do backtrack, it happens daily on every airline..

Quoting Flighty (Reply 18):
The A340-600 would be quite shocking to see at US.

The US Airways A330-300 currently holds - 256 Y 30 J

The Lufthansa A340-600 currently holds - 263 Y 72 J

The Cathay Pacific A340-600 currently holds - 220 Y 60 J 8 P

I think with the proper investment in a new long-haul premium product(which is rumored to be in the works to replace Envoy), it would not be that hard to fill a A340-600 on US Airways metal to Asia. Remember Asia demands higher yields year-round that Europe, and the demand for premium cabins to Asia is stronger than it is to Europe. Again it is workable only with the right investment and long-term commitment to such a program. I believe that we are all going to be seeing very big improvements over the next few years at US Airways, that is of course if they do not attempt another merger. Which is fodder for a whole other topic.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
incitatus
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:25 am

Shouldn't USAirways start with PHL-NRT first?

It's amazing how quickly airlines line up to lose money when government agreements get in the way of market efficiencies.
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FLYGUY767
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 22):
Shouldn't USAirways start with PHL-NRT first?

I have a strong feeling that US does not want to pay the going rate for a slot at Narita.. Nor do I feel they want to pay the cost for operations at Narita.. I could be very wrong however..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
flyboyaz
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 23):
I have a strong feeling that US does not want to pay the going rate for a slot at Narita.. Nor do I feel they want to pay the cost for operations at Narita.. I could be very wrong however..

That is one of our preferred markets...I believe it was Scott Kirby that stated it. If we can't get to China, they are going to try for Japan.
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Evan767
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:45 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 10):
That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

I think that depends on the seat.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
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TK787
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting Captaink (Reply 16):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 13):
What exactly is an 343-500? The A345 is a very expensive aircraft to operate especially as a very small sub-fleet. It is a niche aircraft. The A343 is cheaper but it's not that much more efficient than an A332.
Is the A343 more efficient than the A332? I have much different stories in the past.

Here is one of those stories, not taking any sides:
On the 8xweekly IST-JFK route (8072 km) TK uses 2x332s, and the rest with 343s.
Here are some facts on TKs 332s, and 343s:
Both have the same range at 12,000km.
Seats: 332 has 22J/228Y( total 250), 343 has 34J/237Y (total 271)
Cargo: 332 35,578kg, 343 44,836kg.

I am sure on slower days, and not much cargo, even with a west bound penalty on hot days, 332 s two engines save a bunch for TK. But on busier days 343s capacity comes in handy.
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
Seriously, what happened to the rumor of US Airways gaining the A340-500 ships?

They were from AC and went to another carrier, TAM i believe
 
malaysia
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:54 am

All I still want to see is LAS-BKK and PHX-BKK  Smile and LAS-HKG and PHX-HKG  Smile and LAS-SYD and PHX-SYD  Smile and LAS-SIN and PHX-SIN  Smile Ding ding, since US is a nobody in Asia for US airlines, maybe US should get in for SE Asia instead so its the largest US Airline in SE Asia. add BKK/KUL/CGK/MNL/SGN/SIN/ and HKG/SYD/MEL etc.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 27):
They were from AC and went to another carrier, TAM i believe

Thank You..

I thought this was the case but I was not sure.. Isnt SQ and EK getting rid of their A345 soon?

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
Humberside
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
The plan or so I have heard is for:

PHL-PEK (If unable to gain authority); PHL-HKG
PHX-AKL(*A hub)-(Final destination being Sydney or Melbourne)
PHX-ICN(*A hub)-(Final Destination rumored as DEL, BOM, or SIN(*A hub)).

Would PHX-HKG be considered, expecially if US get PHL-PEK and dont do PHL-HKG?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 5):
1) Beijing is the Capitol.

Careful cher:
it's the location of the capitol... is the capital.

Quoting Clipper136 (Reply 5):
2) Closer to PHL and can be operated by the A332s they are expecting in 2009.
PHL-PEK = 5977 NM
PHL-PVG = 6452 NM
Range of A332 = 6700NM

...you make the mistake of assuming US' A332s will be capable of attaining the maximum range within that model's performance, which they wont-- thanks once again to PW.

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 8):
when a 2 engine bird can support the route more efficiently?

...can it? Not in the case of US' aircraft.
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dutchjet
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 10):
That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

This is news, please tell us more! Maybe this information is just what Airbus needs to get the slow selling A346 program back on track?

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 29):
I thought this was the case but I was not sure.. Isnt SQ and EK getting rid of their A345 soon?

EK - no, they need and want every airplane that they can get their hands on and have no plans to sell off their A345s.. EK's A343s are leased in (from Boeing, those are the ex-SQ airplanes that Boeing took in trade in connection with the SQ 777 deal) and those leases will begin to expire in a few years. Its not yet known whether EK will extend the leases.

SQ - while many on a.net are convinced that SQ is dumping their A345s, SQ continues to operate the type and never placed an order for the 772LR to replace their A345s. Thus SQ needs their A345s to operate the EWR and LAX routes for the foreseeable future.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
I have a very strong feeling that they may very well opt for the A340-600, in addition I would expect up to 9 frames.

I would be surprised if US adds the A346 to its fleet, the A346 is a very big airplane.....A343s maybe, A345s a possibility, but A346s are a lot of capacity. But if US wants to enter the longhaul game, they will need something to fly the routes with until the A350s are delivered. The A332 is a good airplane, but it does have its limits....and the PW engines dont help.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 17):
PHX-AKL(*A hub)-(Final destination being Sydney or Melbourne)

Now that would be a shocking move.....
 
vega
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
Quoting Vega (Reply 10):
That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

This is news, please tell us more! Maybe this information is just what Airbus needs to get the slow selling A346 program back on track?

Simple, I would rather have 176 Feet of cabin to browse and walk around in on a 14 hour flight than 147 feet. Of course some don't mind Trans Atlantic on a 757 - I'm not one of them.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 32):
I would be surprised if US adds the A346 to its fleet, the A346 is a very big airplane.....A343s maybe, A345s a possibility, but A346s are a lot of capacity. But if US wants to enter the longhaul game, they will need something to fly the routes with until the A350s are delivered. The A332 is a good airplane, but it does have its limits....and the PW engines dont help.

With 10 332s on order, it would be foolish to go with 343s - US will order two 345s for China as the 332 contract options permit. Further, as I mentioned before, US will need the 345 to maximize cargo payload to make this route work year round. The 346 is obviously too big for what US could reasonably project as passenger revenue for PHL-PEK.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
dutchjet
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Simple, I would rather have 176 Feet of cabin to browse and walk around in on a 14 hour flight than 147 feet.

OK.......most dont stroll on their flights, but if the extra 29 feet makes you happy, fine with me. By comfort I thought that you were suggesting that longer airplanes provide a smoother ride or gives a pax more personal space.

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Of course some don't mind Trans Atlantic on a 757 - I'm not one of them.

And what does the 757 on transatlantic flights have to do with any of this?

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
US will order two 345s for China as the 332 contract options permit.

Do you really think that US will opt for the A345......its an expensive airplane and its capabilities would only be necessary for the one route. While the A343 may be ""out of style"", its CFM engines make it an interesting choice (doesnt US fly A32Xs with CFMs) and it could efficiently operate flights from PHL/PHX to Asia and Europe.....in any case, US would need at least three A345s for the China route, to cover for delays, maintenance, etc. The ""spare"" could operate another service when not needed.......with only two airplanes, US would have to cancel the PEK flight every time one of its A345s would go tech, encounter a delay, or having scheduled maintenance.
 
mah584jr
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:28 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Simple, I would rather have 176 Feet of cabin to browse and walk around in on a 14 hour flight than 147 feet.

Wow, I've never even thought about something like this. Judging only from your comments, you seem to be someone very into the size of aircraft versus practicality. I'm sure you would love it if US had a few 747s in their fleet, whether they were practical or not. As long as you have the floor space to walk around it would be fine with you.  boxedin 
 
captaink
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Simple, I would rather have 176 Feet of cabin to browse and walk around in on a 14 hour flight than 147 feet. Of course some don't mind Trans Atlantic on a 757 - I'm not one of them.

You are not being objective Vega. The majority of passengers, won't share you sentiments. Many times I notice that most passenger simply stay put, unless they need to go to the restroom. What are you talking about? Walking around the aircraft, this is not a cruise ship. Comfort on a long flight really has little to do with the length of the airplane.

We a.netters unlike other passengers have special needs according to our personal aircraft preference but we don't represent the average passenger.

US Airways decision is no doubt going to be based more on maximizing revenue, minimizing costs. I am certain that is how most airlines base their decisions. Maybethe 345/346 are going to be overkill for US. If the 343 is available I am sure US would choose them over the bigger 345/346s. If the A332 can do it for them, passenger wise, cargo wise, well I guess we can forget about the A340s entirely as the 332s are on order.
There is something special about planes....
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting FUN2FLY (Reply 15):
A 200 (approx.) seat 332 will be up against 347 seat 744's from UA and 285 seat 777's from CO and AA's 777's (a fewer seats).

But that's not really true. US will not be competing against those carriers, because US is applying for the available new-carrier selection in 2009. AA, UA and CO already have Chinese route authorities and so are not a factor in the applicable proceeding.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Simple, I would rather have 176 Feet of cabin to browse and walk around in on a 14 hour flight than 147 feet.

Neither of those figures is true - unless you're in the C cabin, you can't "browse and walk around" up front.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:02 am

Is there really going to be this much demand for this route on US? US isn't known as a long-haul carrier by any means, and suddenly they're jumping into this feet first? People from anywhere not on the immediate east coast are not going to backtrack to PHL if there are any other more-direct options available (a la ORD, etc.) Not to mention PHL isn't a growing city any more (see the most recent census update/projections). This sounds like a debacle in the making, IMO.

Quoting Vega (Reply 10):

That is exactly what I'm saying - a longer plane is more comfortable for a 14 hour flight.

Yeah those longer planes are always more comfortable than their shorter counterpart. Think of that the next time it takes forever and a day for boarding/deplaning on a 753 folks.  Yeah sure
 
usairways85
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 39):
Not to mention PHL isn't a growing city any more (see the most recent census update/projections). This sounds like a debacle in the making, IMO.

The city itself may be losing its population but the surrounding area is still large and the population is not declining
 
mah584jr
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 39):
Not to mention PHL isn't a growing city any more (see the most recent census update/projections). This sounds like a debacle in the making, IMO.

You're correct that Philly itself isn't growing but the Philadelphia metropolitan area has continued to grow. It grew by 4.6% from 90 to 00 and still ranks as the 4th largest metropolitan area in the US.

Quoting Captaink (Reply 36):
I guess we can forget about the A340s entirely as the 332s are on order.

i know we're all talking about the new asian routes but aren't the 332s supposed to replace the 767s?
 
copaair737
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 21):
MOD

How? US doesn't even fly to MOD at all. It would require a stop in SFO or LAX.

You got your wires crossed buddy.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Mah584jr (Reply 41):
You're correct that Philly itself isn't growing but the Philadelphia metropolitan area has continued to grow. It grew by 4.6% from 90 to 00 and still ranks as the 4th largest metropolitan area in the US.

True, downtown lost some 60,000 people since 2000, according to the state's estimated census data for 2006. Philadelphia is said to have an estimated 1.46 million people, while it also states that Uwchan Twp (I hope I spelled that right) is the fastest growing community in the state. Chester, Montgomery, and Bucks Counties are all developing quite rapidly...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 43):
while it also states that Uwchan Twp (I hope I spelled that right) is the fastest growing community in the state.

Then it just passed Lower Macungie Twp, up near Allentown, which was #1 when I lived there.
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 44):
Then it just passed Lower Macungie Twp, up near Allentown, which was #1 when I lived there.

That report also said that among the states largest cities, Allentown actually grew... by a few hundred...

Heck, it's still growth...  Silly  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
vega
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:31 pm

We'll just have to wait until the application is filed by US and see who is correct regarding the aircraft type. If I am incorrect, I'll admit it - you naysayers should do the same.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 43):
True, downtown lost some 60,000 people since 2000, according to the state's estimated census data for 2006

I have corrected this before and will again. If you mean "center city" which is typically the definition of downtown, Philadelphia Center City has increased in population over the past 20 years, by about 28% - not decreased. If you are referring to the city itself (the area within the city limits) then your numbers are presumably accurate.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 38):
Quoting Vega (Reply 33):
Simple, I would rather have 176 Feet of cabin to browse and walk around in on a 14 hour flight than 147 feet.
Neither of those figures is true - unless you're in the C cabin, you can't "browse and walk around" up front.

Sure they are - they are the Cabin length of the aircraft. The Economy section alone on the 332 has 263 seats and the 345 has 329 - I'd say without too much of a thought process, since the cabin widths are identical the 345 is longer - just on that basis. By the way, lots of people walk around in Economy on SFO-HKG and LAX-SYD - lots.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 39):
Is there really going to be this much demand for this route on US? US isn't known as a long-haul carrier by any means, and suddenly they're jumping into this feet first? People from anywhere not on the immediate east coast are not going to backtrack to PHL if there are any other more-direct options available (a la ORD, etc.) Not to mention PHL isn't a growing city any more (see the most recent census update/projections). This sounds like a debacle in the making, IMO.

The number of available passengers for any airline is based on the airport Catchment Area, which is closely equivalent to the MSA - not a single city population, The Philadelphia MSA is close to 6M - a growth of 4.6% over the past 10 years. The actual Catchment area for PHL has been typically defined as closer to 7.4M by the airport. I explained the derivation of this catchment number in a much earlier post on this subject. CLT and it's connections/business interests will also feed this flight. Under your definition EWR (Newark) and Detroit (DTW) flights to Asia are also a "debacle in the making", which they have not been.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 46):
The actual Catchment area for PHL has been typically defined as closer to 7.4M by the airport

Yeah, and how much of that airport-defined catchment area is also claimed by ABE, ACY, etc? Let's take the up and coming Quakertown area for instance... ABE claims it in most of their propaganda, it is significantly closer to ABE, yet being in Bucks County will be in the PHL MSA. Airport-defined catchment areas are like fairy tales, they always end in a happy ending... for the airport defining it.


I will say though that I mistakenly trusted local media about Philly's population. Philadelphia (the city itself) has lost population, as have all the other Top-10 in PA sans Allentown. However the MSA is still growing (fueled mainly by growth in the northern ends). I was mistaken on that in prior postings, as the halfassed local paper's article on it wrote it as if the entire MSA had lost, using terms like "Philadelphia area."
 
steeler83
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:00 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 46):
I have corrected this before and will again. If you mean "center city" which is typically the definition of downtown, Philadelphia Center City has increased in population over the past 20 years, by about 28% - not decreased. If you are referring to the city itself (the area within the city limits) then your numbers are presumably accurate.

Sorry mate, I was actually referring to the city/county as a whole... The downtowns of Philly and the Burgh are indeed growing very rapidly, with Pittsburgh's downtown population about to double over the next few years or so. The North Side, Oakland, and Southside neighborhoods are also booming, with growth creeping up the Southside slopes...

i don't know why I posted "downtown" Philly, when I meant the city as a whole...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 47):
I was mistaken on that in prior postings, as the halfassed local paper's article on it wrote it as if the entire MSA had lost, using terms like "Philadelphia area."

Which paper was this, was it the Philly Enquirer?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Tornado82
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RE: US Airways To Apply For PHL-PEK In 2009

Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 48):

Which paper was this, was it the Philly Enquirer?

Hahahaha... no I'm on the west side now buddy. (Thank God!) I'm talking very local, Uniontown's finest daily rag.  Silly

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