nycfly75
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JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:40 pm

http://www.newsday.com/business/loca...899077.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

Fair Use:

"JetBlue Airways Corp., the discount airline that has been struggling to return to profitability, has established a severance plan to protect executives and workers in the event a competitor attempts a hostile takeover, company officials confirmed Friday.

Forest Hills-based JetBlue said its plan, disclosed in a government filing late Thursday, was not made in response to any possible takeover attempts but is basically to make it more difficult for a competitor to buy the airline, one of the country's leading low-cost carriers."
 
RL757PVD
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:50 pm

Things that make you go hhhmmmm..........
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
quickmover
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:03 am

That's weird.

Is something afoot? I can't think of anyone who could aquire them that wouldn't have anticompetitve isssues with the govt.
 
flyf15
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
has established a severance plan to protect executives

I think this is the key sentence here. Just another example of airline management wanting to get as much money out of the deal no matter what happens and how good or bad of a job they do.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
I think this is the key sentence here. Just another example of airline management wanting to get as much money out of the deal no matter what happens and how good or bad of a job they do.

 checkmark 
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
"JetBlue Airways Corp., the discount airline that has been struggling to return to profitability, has established a severance plan to protect executives and workers in the event a competitor attempts a hostile takeover, company officials confirmed Friday.

Maybe Delta Air Lines is indeed looking to takeover Jet Blue...

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
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N328KF
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
I think this is the key sentence here. Just another example of airline management wanting to get as much money out of the deal no matter what happens and how good or bad of a job they do.

Yep. Poison pills do nothing to help shareholders. If someone wants to buy up enough shares to acquire the company and existing shareholders are willing to sell, then that in and of itself represents the will of the shareholders.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
RL757PVD
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:32 am

Doesnt sound like they'd put up much of a fight like YX is......
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
flyboyaz
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:38 am

The downward spiral begins.....or speeds up I should say....

I personally think a merger between them and Frontier would be lucrative....it would give them a much better presence nationwide...and quite a good leisure international presence as well. It would help them compete against DL and UA better too.
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JBLUA320
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 8):
The downward spiral begins.....or speeds up I should say....

While this IS a curious move, I don't think it necessary reflects anything going on internally. And it does say that the severance plan pays executives and workers, not just executives. I don't think jetBlue would be bought out by anyone... but a merger possibility would be less than surprising.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 9):
I don't think jetBlue would be bought out by anyone... but a merger possibility would be less than surprising.

I agree yes....I know F9 isn't doing the best financially either....so a team-up with B6 might help both carriers. Fleets are common (for the most part) and neither have unionized workers if I remember correctly....it might work out well.
Catch a ride on a smile!
 
JBLUA320
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:50 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 10):
I agree yes....I know F9 isn't doing the best financially either....so a team-up with B6 might help both carriers. Fleets are common (for the most part) and neither have unionized workers if I remember correctly....it might work out well.

It's a great combination. jetBlue could use some A319s on the trans-cons, and F9 would benefit from the A320s (even though they did order them, right?). The onboard products are almost identical.

The real question is... which name gets kept! I'd hate to see the jetBlue name go, but I'd hate to see those animal tails disappear, too!

Oh, speculation... how I love thee.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 8):
I personally think a merger between them and Frontier would be lucrative....it would give them a much better presence nationwide...and quite a good leisure international presence as well. It would help them compete against DL and UA better too.

Frontier has a problem now it is called eggs all in one basket.. That basket has seen the entrance of Southwest Airlines, and a further expansion after the entrance of Southwest Airlines. Frontier Airlines are starting as has been discussed in another thread to look away from new aircraft and focus on what they have. If their is any growth in the Denver market it will be with equipment on hand or contracted to the regionals. Long-Term Frontier will have to open another hub or focus city that is not centered in a delay prone city(Winter Months). I feel that Frontier will add another city either on the West Coast or East Coast using assets on hand, thus relieving the pressure on the Denver operation. I may be way off here but I see a city like Sacramento or Fresno on the West Coast, and Louisville or Nashville on the East Coast both could afford Point to Point traffic that would not make the majority of F9 profits reliant on Denver. In addition a 2nd or 3rd Focus City could very well be an investment that would make the airline more valuable to a potential buyer in this time of corporate mergers, and airline consolidations.

Jet Blue has a problem now as well. They are being faced with an over-redundancy to low-yield markets, and not enough focus on high yield markets. Remember aircraft have been deferred, and their is the talk of even more Jet Blue aircraft being sold off as well. Jet Blue is now faced with a dilemma. Do they keep going forward as is, and hope it gets better. Or do they look at each route and determine long term profit viability. I do not think things are looking any better for Jet Blue now than they were in February. If talk is true I dont think we will be seeing Pittsburgh in the Jet Blue network for to much longer. I also feel we are going to see a move to enter into the LAX market if Jet Blue goes the routes of higher yielding traffic. There is also the chance that Jet blue may look at a Premium Cabin to increase revenue on existing service. Virgin America coming on the scene only puts more pressure on Jet Blue to get their deck of cards in order, and fast.

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
jacobin777
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
has established a severance plan to protect executives

I think this is the key sentence here. Just another example of airline management wanting to get as much money out of the deal no matter what happens and how good or bad of a job they do.

...and what about this?

"Other workers, the filing said, will be eligible for 26 weeks pay."

or this

"In its filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission, JetBlue said its plan "provides severance and welfare benefits to eligible employees who are involuntarily terminated from employment without cause or, in certain circumstances, when they resigned during the two-year period following a change in control.""
"Up the Irons!"
 
bobnwa
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
I think this is the key sentence here. Just another example of airline management wanting to get as much money out of the deal no matter what happens and how good or bad of a job they do.

Why did you only copy part of the quote and leave a very important part out?
 
UAL777UK
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 5):
Maybe Delta Air Lines is indeed looking to takeover Jet Blue...

Do we really think any of the legacies really will go for a takeover, dont they need to stabilize their bottom line first?

IMHO theres no short term chance of anybody snapping them up.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 15):
Do we really think any of the legacies really will go for a takeover, dont they need to stabilize their bottom line first?

IMHO theres no short term chance of anybody snapping them up.

I think any legacy carrier would just ruin B6's whole business model...there would be no real benefit to it. They would be better off teaming up with another LCC like F9 or even NK.
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FLYGUY767
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 15):
Do we really think any of the legacies really will go for a takeover, dont they need to stabilize their bottom line first?

United has been actively looking for a merger partner since before they exited Bankruptcy

Air Tran has tried repeatedly to takeover Midwest

Aloha is not in good shape

Hawaiian is moving along, all be it on the border line

Frontier is opting not to expand its mainline fleet

JetBlue has deferred several aircraft deliveries, also talk about selling some aircraft

The US industry is not any better now than it was a few years ago. We are now seeing LCC airlines, and smaller airlines struggle that grew during the time than the legacies were stuck after 9-11. It has been talked about before, and I do fully believe that a few of the airlines listed above are targets for takeovers or liquidation within the next few years.

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 15):
IMHO theres no short term chance of anybody snapping them up.

There is a chance, it comes with a price..

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
thirteenright
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 5):
Maybe Delta Air Lines is indeed looking to takeover Jet Blue...

-JD

I wonder if they'd keep the JetBlue name or rebrand a la Song. Delta Blue Air Lines, perhaps? *shudder*. Though I dont work for B6 anymore, I still dont want to see this happen.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 11):
It's a great combination. jetBlue could use some A319s on the trans-cons, and F9 would benefit from the A320s (even though they did order them, right?). The onboard products are almost identical.

The real question is... which name gets kept! I'd hate to see the jetBlue name go, but I'd hate to see those animal tails disappear, too!

I would hope that a company would be formed to operate both brands. F9 and B6 are two very strong brands and eliminating one may not be the best idea. I think merging them behind the scenes would be best, but keep two seperate brands might be mutually beneficial.

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 12):
Frontier has a problem now it is called eggs all in one basket..

Some would say the same thing about B6 at JFK.
 
flydl2atl
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 12):
I may be way off here but I see a city like Sacramento or Fresno on the West Coast, and Louisville or Nashville on the East Coast both could afford Point to Point traffic that would not make the majority of F9 profits reliant on Denver

They're done with Fresno. They do have quite a few nonstops to Mexico. I think Frontier has said that they have no plans opening up another hub. They might add some p2p flights...but no hub.
 
FLYGUY767
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 18):
Some would say the same thing about B6 at JFK

 checkmark   checkmark 

100% Agreed..

The two are going through some serious growing pains!

-JD
Summer Trip 2007: DEN HAAG>DUBAI>LONDON>VERONA>COSTA SMERALDA>CAPRI
 
JBLUA320
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 18):
I would hope that a company would be formed to operate both brands. F9 and B6 are two very strong brands and eliminating one may not be the best idea. I think merging them behind the scenes would be best, but keep two seperate brands might be mutually beneficial.

Hmm.. BlueFrontier? jetFrontier? Frontblue Airways?

Okay, I'll shut up.
 
flyf15
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 14):
Why did you only copy part of the quote and leave a very important part out?

I think the very important part is the management part. The article says managers will get up to 2 years pay and other bonuses while employees will get no more than one half year's pay. My bet is management couldn't make it entirely for themselves due to some legal reason so they had to give the employees something. So they gave the employees a little and gave themselves as much as possible.
 
bobnwa
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:35 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 22):
I think the very important part is the management part. The article says managers will get up to 2 years pay and other bonuses while employees will get no more than one half year's pay. My bet is management couldn't make it entirely for themselves due to some legal reason so they had to give the employees something. So they gave the employees a little and gave themselves as much as possible.

You wouldn't have a hidden agenda here would you? You don't think it is less than totally honest to quote only part of a sentence to prove your point?
 
flyf15
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 23):
You wouldn't have a hidden agenda here would you? You don't think it is less than totally honest to quote only part of a sentence to prove your point?

I wasn't trying to do anything dishonest. The entire quote was 3 posts above mine. I was trying to quote the part that I thought was the key reason for this....
 
hiflyer
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Take

Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:03 am

All the problems that the industry faced years ago with over capacity and unprofitable air fares are still here....the only difference is that legacies shed their debts and staff salaries thru chapt 11 to bottom feed with the LCC's....with the result that the LCC's are now feeling pain as well...jet blue, southwest, frontier,...now everyone hurts....as the super bottom feeders come in...Skybus, Alegiant, Spirit....and more ryanair/easyjet clones. And fuel has gone thru the roof blowing all long range planning done at the turn of the century.

Of course there will be consolidation ....and some of the old rules just may apply now when pennies count such as commonality in airframes/engines on recent dlvrd aircraft...limited crew retraining (which is biting USAir now) ....union issues ( do an AMR/TW deal for instance)....able to sell a large asset to finance the deal....congressional support...

For instance JetBlue...obviously they are reading the same tea leaves or they wouldn't have done that plan...so who is common with their Pratt A320 fleet? A heavily unionize carrier could take them without much problem since B6 has little organization. Could sell off the 190 fleet to help pay for it (especially if scope at ALPA would be a problem)....and spin off the TV organization. Spirit is almost identical but without any asset to spin off.... Does anyone not think it is the 717 that AirTran is after with midwest along with a center of the country complex so the 717 can go both coasts easily?

Commonality...lower initial costs....that is where this is going now....the USAir model of the last 15 years of give it away to get what you have to have is over.
 
acidradio
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Take

Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:49 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 22):
I think the very important part is the management part. The article says managers will get up to 2 years pay and other bonuses while employees will get no more than one half year's pay. My bet is management couldn't make it entirely for themselves due to some legal reason so they had to give the employees something. So they gave the employees a little and gave themselves as much as possible.

This in the corporate world is called a POISON PILL (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_pill). When some kind of provision like this is added to the corporate charter/bylaws, it makes it incredibly expensive to takeover that company. It will add so much cost that it will not be very profitable to takeover the company. To pay a 26-week severance to everybody in the company costs a lot of money! The company looking to acquire will know this and stay away.
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:57 am

If there were a JetBlue/Frontier merger, the name would definitely have to be Blue Frontier ... or Frontier Blue .. either are terrific names that help retain the brand of each. Ahhh, it's like butter ....
 
B6ramprat
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting Acidradio (Reply 26):
This in the corporate world is called a POISON PILL (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_pill). When some kind of provision like this is added to the corporate charter/bylaws, it makes it incredibly expensive to takeover that company. It will add so much cost that it will not be very profitable to takeover the company. To pay a 26-week severance to everybody in the company costs a lot of money! The company looking to acquire will know this and stay away.

This is exactly what was explained to us today. Being somewhat of an aviation nerd I new this but for most that I work with this is all new to them. The Poison Pill has been used alot in my company for the past couple of years. I can tell you all this and of course nothing is ever set in stone, especially in this business but Jetblue is going nowhere. The company is fighting EXTREMELY hard to make sure there is no take-over thus the Poison Pill. With that said, all are alot calmer now that mangement has talken to us and we very confident in our company.
Racecar spelled backwards spells Racecar
 
socalfive
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:53 am

This is a very good move on B6 part. I think what could very well be a future scenario as the business climate gets increasingly more difficult is a legacy to make a move on airlines like B6 just to remove capacity, especially LCC capacity. They would take on the best of the best in assets and shutter the rest. Putting a severance package in place makes a hostile takeover a lot more expensive for the predator and allows discussions between the likes of B6 and F9 to commence as that particular merger scenario makes more sense on all fronts than any other out there right now.
 
787EWR
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 12):
Jet Blue has a problem now as well. They are being faced with an over-redundancy to low-yield markets, and not enough focus on high yield markets. Remember aircraft have been deferred, and their is the talk of even more Jet Blue aircraft being sold off as well. Jet Blue is now faced with a dilemma. Do they keep going forward as is, and hope it gets better. Or do they look at each route and determine long term profit viability. I do not think things are looking any better for Jet Blue now than they were in February. If talk is true I dont think we will be seeing Pittsburgh in the Jet Blue network for to much longer. I also feel we are going to see a move to enter into the LAX market if Jet Blue goes the routes of higher yielding traffic. There is also the chance that Jet blue may look at a Premium Cabin to increase revenue on existing service. Virgin America coming

I agree with parts of your statement but I think everyone needs to understand that while some planes are flying at 75%- 80% capacity, all of the analyst indicate that traffic is slowing down. I believe B6 made this enormous order at a time when the market was up. The market is now slowing down and they recognize that they need to do the same. Even WN is deferring planes now because they recognize what is going on. B6 would be better off replacing some of their older planes and then selling them off to an airline elsewhere in the world.
I think B6 made the right move by getting smaller planes to service smaller markets(the planes suck, but anyway).

As for route optimization, they should be looking at these routes every week and forming a long term plan on whether to keep it running.

Things are not going to get any better for B6 or any airline on the east coast until someone steps in an limits the number of regional jets going out of these airports. The weather, with global warming, el ninio and any other phenomenon is not going to change, so build your airline and your operations to be able to deal with them.

Why is everyone so afraid of Virgin America? I personally think there are too many airlines flying around now. Even if they merge with Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Blue for round the world service, I really don't know that they can survive.

Quoting Nycfly75 (Thread starter):
"JetBlue Airways Corp., the discount airline that has been struggling to return to profitability, has established a severance plan to protect executives and workers in the event a competitor attempts a hostile takeover, company officials confirmed Friday.

Forest Hills-based JetBlue said its plan, disclosed in a government filing late Thursday, was not made in response to any possible takeover attempts but is basically to make it more difficult for a competitor to buy the airline, one of the country's leading low-cost carriers."

Golden Parachutes for sure. But I also think it's a pretty smart move as it will make the airline less appetizing for another company to take a bite. B6 does have a good product and despite all the delays, a strong customer base.
I just don't see Delta, American or any US based airline taking them because they have their own issues.
 
floridaflyboy
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 10):
I agree yes....I know F9 isn't doing the best financially either....so a team-up with B6 might help both carriers. Fleets are common (for the most part) and neither have unionized workers if I remember correctly....it might work out well.

I believe that F9's pilots are union. If not a full union, some sort of representative body, but I think it is indeed a union.

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 18):
I would hope that a company would be formed to operate both brands. F9 and B6 are two very strong brands and eliminating one may not be the best idea. I think merging them behind the scenes would be best, but keep two seperate brands might be mutually beneficial.

Very true. F9 has massive brand loyalty in a lot of western cities, especially Denver. Jetblue, on the other hand, has the same sort of loyalty on the east coast. Getting rid of one or the other brand would, in my opinion, hurt the combined company badly.

Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 21):
Hmm.. BlueFrontier? jetFrontier? Frontblue Airways?

Haha. I love it. Especially the FrontBlue one.
Good goes around!
 
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jetjack74
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 2):
Is something afoot? I can't think of anyone who could aquire them that wouldn't have anticompetitve isssues with the govt.

I see a tri-merger, UA, US and B6 merging. Just thinking out loud, lol.
Made from jets!
 
thirteenright
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 32):
I see a tri-merger, UA, US and B6 merging. Just thinking out loud, lol.

Is it me, or does a B6/MY merger sound fun?  champagne 
 
incitatus
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Flyf15 (Reply 3):
I think this is the key sentence here. Just another example of airline management wanting to get as much money out of the deal no matter what happens and how good or bad of a job they do.

While I agree this is an example of a category of employees getting a good deal no matter what, why single out airlines? This is a common feature in pay across industries. Would you want to work for a company where top management makes peanuts compared to pay in equivalent jobs out there? Continuous pressure to push down executive pay across airlines will only make good managers look for jobs in other sectors, leaving mediocre managers behind to bury what is left.
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lowecur
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:57 am

This is a reaction to overtures swirling around Wall St that DL is going to make a hostile bid for B6. Why?; Because it's cheaper in the long run than spitting into the wind, all the while losing yield on duplicate routes. Also, that new terminal at JFK would make a "jeweled" centerpiece to DL's international ops. The 320s would be sold off to help pay for the transaction, and replaced with a large order of 737s.

Anti-trust will probably rear it's ugly head, but may look the other way if this deal frees up airspace on the heavily traveled eastcoast corridor.
 
PapaNovember
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 18):
F9 and B6 are two very strong brands and eliminating one may not be the best idea. I think merging them behind the scenes would be best, but keep two separate brands might be mutually beneficial.

Like Hardee's and Carl's Jr. Same parent company (Carl's Jr.) with minor branding 'upgrades' for Hardee's.

Well developed East Coast (Hardee's) brand and an equally well developed West Coast (Carl's Jr.) brand.
 
pietpaflsun
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:27 pm

I see a union in JetBlue and Virgin America to form Virgin Blue. This will shake everyone and change the transcon market forever.
Run with the dogs, get the fleas
 
pietpaflsun
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:28 pm

I see a union in JetBlue and Virgin America to form Virgin Blue. This will shake everyone and change the transcon market forever.
Run with the dogs, get the fleas
 
NASBWI
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting PieTpaFlSun (Reply 38):
I see a union in JetBlue and Virgin America to form Virgin Blue.

There already is a (very healthy) Virgin Blue, in Australia.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
jetmatt777
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting PieTpaFlSun (Reply 37):
I see a union in JetBlue and Virgin America to form Virgin Blue. This will shake everyone and change the transcon market forever.

Isn't there already a "Virgin Blue" out there?
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
jetmatt777
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 39):
There already is a (very healthy) Virgin Blue, in Australia.



Quoting Jetmatt777 (Reply 40):
Isn't there already a "Virgin Blue" out there?

Beat me too it, by 4 minutes...
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
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STT757
Posts: 13268
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RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 35):
Also, that new terminal at JFK would make a "jeweled" centerpiece to DL's international ops

Folks have mentioned this before, but keep in mind the new B6 Terminal will have 25 gates optimized to handle A320s and EMB-190s, if you operated 757s, 767s and 777s from that terminal you could probably only handle 12 widebodies at a time.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bwohlgemuth
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:52 pm

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:11 pm

New logo for the B6 / F9 merger.

Strangle all of the animals on the back of the planes....

"Frontier Blue, fly us, or the beaver gets it"
 
LawnDart
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:33 pm

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:29 pm

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 8):
I personally think a merger between them and Frontier would be lucrative....



Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 10):
I know F9 isn't doing the best financially either....so a team-up with B6 might help both carriers.



Quoting JBLUA320 (Reply 11):
It's a great combination. jetBlue could use some A319s on the trans-cons, and F9 would benefit from the A320s (even though they did order them, right?). The onboard products are almost identical.



Quoting Socalfive (Reply 29):
allows discussions between the likes of B6 and F9 to commence as that particular merger scenario makes more sense on all fronts than any other out there right now.

Once upon a time, there was a low-cost carrier based (and hubbed) out of a New York metropolitan airport. Their business model, while fine on paper, provoked harsh competitive reaction from established legacy carriers. To expand their network, they entered into an agreement to buy an airline with a middle-of-the-country hub in Denver.

Jetblue and Frontier? No, PeoplExpress and Frontier!

Didn't work then, probably wouldn't work now...

Quoting 787EWR (Reply 30):
Why is everyone so afraid of Virgin America?

Beats me, they're run by an idiot.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 35):
Also, that new terminal at JFK would make a "jeweled" centerpiece to DL's international ops.

See below:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 42):
keep in mind the new B6 Terminal will have 25 gates optimized to handle A320s and EMB-190s, if you operated 757s, 767s and 777s from that terminal you could probably only handle 12 widebodies at a time.

Also, no provision (or room) for customs.

Quoting PieTpaFlSun (Reply 37):
I see a union in JetBlue and Virgin America to form Virgin Blue. This will shake everyone and change the transcon market forever.

Change the transcon market forever??? I thought Southwest entering the trans-con market was going to change it forever. Oh, wait...they just announced they're pulling out. I thought America West was going to change the trans-con market forever. Oh, wait...they pulled out!

The transcon market is extremely competitive and fairly low-yield. It is essentially a crap market. Has been crap for a long time, will be crap for the forseeable future. No one airline is going to change the fact that it's crap, forever. smile 
 
ckfred
Posts: 4763
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:31 pm

Delta buying Jet Blue would make sense, because B6's domestic routes could feed DL's international hub. The only labor problem would be putting B6's pilots onto the DL seniority list, because the rest of DL's and B6's labor groups are non-union.

The major problem would be the A320s and Embrears. DL would have to either try to fly them or dispose and replace them.

Another carrier that would help itself by buying B6 would be United. UA has a smaller presence in the New York market, compared to B6, DL, AA, and CO. Remember that UA dropped its JFK-LHR service, because it doesn't have nearly the feed at JFK that other carriers do, nor does it have the customer base.

With B6 routes feeding into JFK, UA could bulk up its trans-Atlantic service, although that starts making IAD somewhat redundant.

The other question for UA, if it wanted to buy B6, is whether it coud move B6's operation at LGB to LAX.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:51 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 42):
Quoting Lowecur (Reply 35):
Also, that new terminal at JFK would make a "jeweled" centerpiece to DL's international ops

Folks have mentioned this before, but keep in mind the new B6 Terminal will have 25 gates optimized to handle A320s and EMB-190s, if you operated 757s, 767s and 777s from that terminal you could probably only handle 12 widebodies at a time

I don't see how B6's new terminal would benefit DL that much in that it's only set up as narrow body gates (not that that can't be changed) but, a bigger problem is that B6's new terminal is not adjacent to DL's terminals 2 and 3 as can be seen in the picture below. Unless, DL negotiates with the Port Authority to acquire the terminal B6 is using now, the old National terminal, which is adjacent to B6's new terminal and tear it down and build a new state of the art IAB terminal whilst still operating at 2 and 3 until the new one is completed. Of course, this is a lot of speculation and I personally don't see DL getting involved with B6. I think B6 is afraid of our old friend Parker and US. I think they would love to shift their PHL ops to JFK if given the chance which, I believe, is one of the things they liked so much about DL.


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baw716
Posts: 1461
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:02 pm

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Take

Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:40 pm

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 12):
Jet Blue has a problem now as well. They are being faced with an over-redundancy to low-yield markets, and not enough focus on high yield markets. Remember aircraft have been deferred, and their is the talk of even more Jet Blue aircraft being sold off as well. Jet Blue is now faced with a dilemma. Do they keep going forward as is, and hope it gets better. Or do they look at each route and determine long term profit viability. I do not think things are looking any better for Jet Blue now than they were in February. If talk is true I dont think we will be seeing Pittsburgh in the Jet Blue network for to much longer. I also feel we are going to see a move to enter into the LAX market if Jet Blue goes the routes of higher yielding traffic. There is also the chance that Jet blue may look at a Premium Cabin to increase revenue on existing service. Virgin America coming on the scene only puts more pressure on Jet Blue to get their deck of cards in order, and fast.

Welcome to my respected users list...

The problem JetBlue faces now is that of a carrier that has grown too quickly. They started out operating out of a high cost airport (JFK), but offset it by operating to secondary airports near large metropolitan areas (OAK, LGB). They also ran a large number of flights to shorter haul destinations with the same aircraft. Those markets were higher yield markets, but they started out with lower fares than most other carriers (they had the cost base to support it).

As a more mature carrier, their cost base has increased (as have their unit costs), but their revenue base has not; in fact, and this is why I agree with FLYGUY, they have focused on the lower yield markets while reducing capacity on their aircraft. So lower yield=lower unit revenue and fewer seats=increase unit costs. Result=A loss making carrier that has nowhere to go but down.

The second and even greater mistake was the purchase of the E190s. I have heard great things from passengers about that aircraft and nothing but grief from operators, including jetBlue. Lots of mechanical problems and breakdowns; this has caused a lot of irregular ops in city pairs that cannot afford irregular ops...especially when the alternative is so very costly.

Without getting too details in terms of solutions:
1. I agree with FLYGUY; they are going to have to get in the game in higher yield markets. They have a product that can support it, but right now with the very low density of the aircraft (only 150 seats), they will have to really buff up the revenue and that goes against their philosophy of being a low fare carrier...although if you've seen their fares lately, they are not all that low nor are they necessarily competitive. That in itself would not be a bad thing, but they are doing it in the wrong markets.
2. They need to dump the E190. If the idea was to go with a smaller aircraft, then the A318 would have been the better choice...complete commonality with the A320 and I would imagine much greater reliability than the E190s. Maybe they could spin off the E190s into a separate operation and then find someone who would want the operation...tough sell I think.
3. Neeleman needs to get out of the equation completely. His ego has gotten too big (anyone read Blue Streak?) and he is writing check that his ego cannot cash. They need leadership that is going to take them back to their core concept and stay there. He is terrific at building airlines from nothing (Morris Air, jetBlue), but he can't figure out how to make money with them once he has them up and running (remember Morris was in trouble and sold to Southwest?) Those that do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them. I wonder where we've heard that before? So far, I am seeing the same mistakes.
4. They need to consider a premium product. Those ten rows in the front of the aircraft, they should charge extra for them...a lot extra, and tighten up the back to say 33" instead of 34". If you want the extra space, there should be a premium for it and here, jetBlue is missing the boat. Now I will likely get flamed for this point, because it ultimately costs people more money, but frankly, they need higher yield revenue to offset their higher costs...and cutting costs is NOT the solution to their problems. UA is definitely thinking out of the box with some of their E+ sales ideas; the annual $299 to have the opportunity to sit in E+ and a lot more to get more perks...pretty good stuff. Maybe jetBlue should consider some of these ideas, especially as it relates to those 36" pitched seats.
5. Yes, they need to evaluate each route on its own merits and dump the ones that don't make money. Airline 101 stuff.

There are many more things I can suggest, but then we'd be getting into minutia. A thorough reexamination of the airline from top to bottom is required and it needs to be done quickly. The legacy carriers that are coming out of bankruptcy are going to be stronger and really able to leverage the frequent flyer with the alliance benefits. Southwest, while it has its own challenges, has a cost base that still is low enough to keep them out of trouble. With Virgin America only a few months from going toe to toe with them on transcon routes, jetBlue will not last long.

I suspect the poison pill is designed to keep someone like USAirways from attempting to take them over in a hostile bid a la Delta. USAirways tried to get rid of a competitor by buying them off. Delta was too much to bite off at one time. jetBlue isn't that large and the A320s would benefit them greatly...and the demise of jetBlue would help USAirways in the markets where they go head to head with them in the east. The only problem is, the poison pill idea may backfire. The poison pill may just kill jetBlue if it becomes necessary to merge with someone else in order to save themselves from the fate of Independence Air...airline oblivion.

They don't have much time...

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
socalfive
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 5:37 am

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:31 pm

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 44):
Once upon a time, there was a low-cost carrier based (and hubbed) out of a New York metropolitan airport. Their business model, while fine on paper, provoked harsh competitive reaction from established legacy carriers. To expand their network, they entered into an agreement to buy an airline with a middle-of-the-country hub in Denver.

Jetblue and Frontier? No, PeoplExpress and Frontier!

Didn't work then, probably wouldn't work now...

Geography sure as hell had nothing to do with that particular failure.
 
LawnDart
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 11:33 pm

RE: JetBlue Creates Severance Plan In Case Of Takeover

Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 48):
Geography sure as hell had nothing to do with that particular failure.

Never said it did...but a not-the-healthiest low cost carrier buying another not-the-healthiest competitor doesn't seem like the most prudent thing to do, based on history.

I do find it somewhat ironic that a NY based LCC carrier bought a DEN-based Frontier, and then the whole thing folded. Now we have people suggesting a NY based LCC carrier buy a DEN-based Frontier.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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