rolo987
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Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:14 am

I just booked a flight on US on one of their A321. On the seat selection screen on usairways.com, coach begins at row 5. On Seatguru, they list coach starting at row 8. Is US putting more coach seats on their A321?
 
ProPHX
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:20 am

Yes. US is reducing their first class cabins on their A321 aircraft down to 16. It's a really poor business decision, as not only will elite members who find it more difficult to upgrade start to jump ship, but according to an FA on a recent flight the increased weight due to increased capacity has resulted in unexpected fuel stops on some of the longer routes. So, to make a few extra $$$ with additional coach seats, US is alienating not only its elite flyers, but potentially every passenger on the plane.
 
rolo987
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:17 am

So there's a chance my PHL-LAX leg will have to stop for fuel. Great
 
steeler83
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:26 am

Gotta love US Airways, right, the best airline in the world?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Boston92
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Rolo987 (Reply 2):
So there's a chance my PHL-LAX leg will have to stop for fuel. Great

The PHL-LAX route has a 10% chance of on time arrival according to usair.com

EDIT, It looks as if most don't have the 10%, just mine  Yeah sure LAX-PHL flight 734...

[Edited 2007-06-30 22:36:50]
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ShannoninAMA
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Boston92 (Reply 4):
The PHL-LAX route has a 10% chance of on time arrival according to usair.com

Now THATS promising  Wink



Shannon  half 
Shipwreck alert. Head on over to Airspaceonline.com.
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:09 am

According to the Airbus website, there are two versions of the A321, including an upgraded version with a MGTOW of 206,000lbs vs. 183,000 lbs., fuel capacity of 7885 gal. vs 6300 gal and engines with 33,000 lbs thrust vs. 27,000 lbs. of thrust.

The low GW version has a miserable range of just 2,350 NM, or JFK-SFO in still wind. The LGTOW version's fuel capacity is 10% less than the 738 and 25% less than the 739ER with aux tanks.

Even the HGTOW A321 has the same fuel capacity of the 738 and 15% less than the 739ER, even though the A321 has a 30,000 lbs. higher GTOW (20,000lbs higher than 739ER). And some call the 739ER a pig.

What's surprising is that Airbus shows the A321 with JFK-DUB range (JFK-DUB is 500 NM farther than JFK-SFO)

Which version does US have?

[Edited 2007-06-30 23:10:58]
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steeler83
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
Which version does US have?

Given what I have heard about their A321 service, probably the one that is less fuel efficient, er whatever... I have constantly heard of transcon A321 flights having to stop at either PHX or LAS for a fuel stop...

but most of the time I don't know what I am talking about, but that could be due to the fact that most ppl I quote and take this knowledge from don't know what they're talking about either...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
StarCityFlyr
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:34 am

In speaking with a former US Airways mechanic, I was told that all of the A321's that US has came with the same power plant as the 319's. They are not nearly as efficient on the 321's as they are on the 319's. As a consequence, stopping for fuel on east to west flights has to occur pretty regularly. Seems to me the 757 would make a lot better sense.

JMHO...

Happy Flying All
 
dutchjet
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
Which version does US have?

US has A321-200s but I dont think that they have the max weight options....

Quoting ProPHX (Reply 1):
but according to an FA on a recent flight the increased weight due to increased capacity has resulted in unexpected fuel stops on some of the longer routes.

I dont really think that this is the case, swapping 2 rows of F for 3 rows of Y adds 10 passengers in total, if all seats are occupied. In US's configuration, I dont think that a range problem results from this modification.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
Given what I have heard about their A321 service, probably the one that is less fuel efficient, er whatever... I have constantly heard of transcon A321 flights having to stop at either PHX or LAS for a fuel stop...

Constantly? Or every now and then when there are weather issues in the the northeast and/or ATC has everything east of STL backed up? Speakikng of PHX and LAS, I have heard that those airports are the most problematic for US and its A321s......the aircraft struggles on very hot summer days when its takeoff performance is impacted. Meaning, the A321s cant take enough fuel for a nonstop flight to the east coast. There was a reason that America West kept their 752s for as long as they did....the A321 was not a good alternative for PHX/LAX-east coast nonstops.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
What's surprising is that Airbus shows the A321 with JFK-DUB range (JFK-DUB is 500 NM farther than JFK-SFO)

JFK-DUB on an A321, scary thought, bring you swim suit........all kidding aside, absolute range and real-world range, taking into account all operating variables, are very different things. While ""on paper"" an A321 could fly JFK-DUB, in the real world an airline would not attempt such a flight as it would be nothing more than a big operational headache.

-----------------

The A321 is a good airplane, no discussion, and a very effecient one at that, but it does have its limitations and using it for transcon flights can be problematic when real world issues such as winds, ATC problems, weather, airport delays and the like all come into play. The A321 can fly the transcon routes on most occassions, but real world issues will cause a fuel stop when conditions are difficult.....the A321 is not a 752 and doesnt have hundreds and hundred of miles of extra range and fuel capacity.

A few years ago, US (pre merger) decided to transfer its 757s to leisure routes (ie FLorida) and use the A321s on premium routes (ie transcons).......whose bright idea was that?
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:48 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):

The low GW version has a miserable range of just 2,350 NM, or JFK-SFO in still wind. The LGTOW version's fuel capacity is 10% less than the 738 and 25% less than the 739ER with aux tanks.



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):

Even the HGTOW A321 has the same fuel capacity of the 738 and 15% less than the 739ER, even though the A321 has a 30,000 lbs. higher GTOW (20,000lbs higher than 739ER). And some call the 739ER a pig.

I f you are going to do a comparison, compare like with like. Compare the A320 with the 738, or the A321 with the 737-900. The -900 was boeings first attempt to counter the A321, the ER is the upgraded model, and is a decade younger than the A321. Even then, it still needs AUX fuel tanks to compare with the A321. Its a trade-off, cargo capacity or fuel. It is up to the airline to decide.

Brian.
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 10):
f you are going to do a comparison, compare like with like. Compare the A320 with the 738, or the A321 with the 737-900. The -900 was boeings first attempt to counter the A321, the ER is the upgraded model, and is a decade younger than the A321. Even then, it still needs AUX fuel tanks to compare with the A321. Its a trade-off, cargo capacity or fuel. It is up to the airline to decide.

I agree, but it seems to me that the A321 should be compared to the original 739, not the ER version. CO has twleve 739s and don't even think about putting them on a transcon. Boeing's website doesn't even show the range of the 739, but I'd bet it's as good as the low Gross Weight A321.

It sounds like US management has made a poor decision to roue A321s on routes they cannot complete during the summer when the west to east winds are less than in the winter. They should be rouited on PHL-Florida and other high demand routes of 4 hours or less.

[Edited 2007-07-01 01:09:43]
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flyboyaz
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting ProPHX (Reply 1):
Yes. US is reducing their first class cabins on their A321 aircraft down to 16. It's a really poor business decision, as not only will elite members who find it more difficult to upgrade start to jump ship, but according to an FA on a recent flight the increased weight due to increased capacity has resulted in unexpected fuel stops on some of the longer routes. So, to make a few extra $$$ with additional coach seats, US is alienating not only its elite flyers, but potentially every passenger on the plane.

They looked at the economics of the plane, rather than what the customer prefers...which while not great, is in the best interest of the business. I was surprised they didn't knock it down to 12 like all the other Airbus...at least it's at 16.

The A321 had range issues before the reconfiguration, and it was discussed. However they stated the extra revenue does outweigh the cost of making a fuel stop. It doesn't happen as often as you would like to think. They also stated if they see it happening a lot, they will reduce capacity to be booked, similiar to what B6 does on their transcons.

On another note, the A321's will not be doing much transcon flying soon. They will be shifted to the more high density short haul flying...the 757's will be used primarily for Hawaii and Transatlantic....we will be losing all the HP birds and some of the older US ones. Basically you will see A320's doing most of the longer flights, with A319's and A321's supplementing.

With our cost and fare structure, having 26 first class seats was just too much. It was great when the legacy US did a lot of transcon flying, but that has been reduced so it's no longer necessary.
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vega
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 6):
Which version does US have?

CFM56 - the Lower Thrust engine option. Yes, the US 319 and 321 have the same engine.
There is a "theory" that since the reconfigured 320 has in fact required more fuel stops than before refitting due to a weight increase, the reconfigured 321 will also.
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dl767captain
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:40 pm

well no wonder no one wants to merge with them! If they are willing to randomly make fuel stops to make a few extra bucks on coach then us will eventually be bought out and fixed but us will probably not buy another airline
 
HPRamper
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting StarCityFlyr (Reply 8):
Seems to me the 757 would make a lot better sense.



Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 11):
It sounds like US management has made a poor decision to roue A321s on routes they cannot complete during the summer when the west to east winds are less than in the winter. They should be rouited on PHL-Florida and other high demand routes of 4 hours or less.

Yes, 757s are a better transcon option. But how many of those are floating around on the market right now? The ones we have now are maintenance hogs anyway, it's a tradeoff between a possible fuel stop for the A321 and a 3 hour mx delay for the 757. Either way it's not good.
 
flyabunch
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:56 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 15):
Yes, 757s are a better transcon option. But how many of those are floating around on the market right now? The ones we have now are maintenance hogs anyway,

Are they maintenance hogs because they have been beat to death? Don't get me wrong, I am Gold Elite on US and I will be Chairman's by the end of this year but I do wonder about the logic of the 321's for transcon with the reduced First Class.

I have flown the 321's twice this year and they did fine from CLT to PHX and back but I would not be too happy if we had to stop. I have always enjoyed the 757's and have never had a delay on them. Is it more common than I am seeing? I have had more problems with maintenance delays on 320's and 319's. Everything from lavatory problems to engine issues.

Mike
 
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malaysia
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 15):
Yes, 757s are a better transcon option. But how many of those are floating around on the market right now? The ones we have now are maintenance hogs anyway, it's a tradeoff between a possible fuel stop for the A321 and a 3 hour mx delay for the 757. Either way it's not good.

My CLT-LAS flight (757s) that I take is almost atleast 1-2 hours delayed every week.
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Boston92
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 16):

My last trip had 8 segments including 3 757's, 2 320's, and a 319, and all three of the Airbus flights had mx delays, and all three of the 75 flights were on time...probably just a coincidence, but in my hundereds of thousands of miles of air travel, I know I have had more mx delays on the 320 family then on the 757/767 family.
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FCYTravis
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:08 pm

The A321 reconfiguration has cost US a number of elite members - including myself. I was an 85k Plat last year, and that's gone to 0k this year. Switched over to United. Anecdotal reports are that it's difficult even for Chairman's pax to get upgraded on transcons - and given the stingy US meal policy, transcons are about the only flights where upgrades mean anything more than a bigger seat and free booze.

Many US transcons have been cut to A319s, to boot.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
asuflyer05
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:04 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 7):
I have constantly heard of transcon A321 flights having to stop at either PHX or LAS for a fuel stop...

What's your definition of "constantly?" And even still, it is mainly an issue in the wintertime when headwinds are stronger.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 9):
While ""on paper"" an A321 could fly JFK-DUB, in the real world an airline would not attempt such a flight as it would be nothing more than a big operational headache.

On paper the A321 has the range to fly JFK-DUB. It's DUB-JFK that would be the problem.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Flyabunch (Reply 16):
Are they maintenance hogs because they have been beat to death? Don't get me wrong, I am Gold Elite on US and I will be Chairman's by the end of this year but I do wonder about the logic of the 321's for transcon with the reduced First Class.
I have flown the 321's twice this year and they did fine from CLT to PHX and back but I would not be too happy if we had to stop. I have always enjoyed the 757's and have never had a delay on them. Is it more common than I am seeing? I have had more problems with maintenance delays on 320's and 319's. Everything from lavatory problems to engine issues.

The ex-HP birds are in rougher shape than the former US ones. Older, more wear and tear, just very tired aircraft. Our ops guys dread the Saturday 757 we get because they have such bad reps.
We do have occasional issues with the Airbuses but it's usually minor stuff as far as I've seen. They are fairly finicky planes, our 737s at least are made of sterner stuff even if they are not as comfortable.
 
steeler83
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 20):
What's your definition of "constantly?" And even still, it is mainly an issue in the wintertime when headwinds are stronger.

Ok, "constantly" was obviously not be best word... Suppose I said, "every now and then," as someone else pointed out before.

I would have to agree that the 757s would be ideal for transcons, even A320s...
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flyboyaz
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 19):
The A321 reconfiguration has cost US a number of elite members - including myself. I was an 85k Plat last year, and that's gone to 0k this year. Switched over to United. Anecdotal reports are that it's difficult even for Chairman's pax to get upgraded on transcons - and given the stingy US meal policy, transcons are about the only flights where upgrades mean anything more than a bigger seat and free booze.

That's sad to hear actually. I'm surprised that Chairman's are having a hard time getting upgraded....but on a good note, that means we are probably selling more FC seats, which is good for revenue. Our FC products are being upgraded and coach as well...which is great in my opinion. Even being an LCC, we have to be at least competitive with other carriers. I'll be interested to see what they come up with.

How is UA better for upgrades though? Their 319/320 have the same or less seats in FC than ours do and their 757's only have a few more in FC. Granted their service is better, but I would think their pool of elite members is larger than ours.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21):
The ex-HP birds are in rougher shape than the former US ones.

Man, tell me about it. I was very happy to hear we are getting rid of them. I think they do fairly well now since they have them running longer flights to Hawaii. Before they used them on such short flights...like PHX-SAN, they really took a beating.

[Edited 2007-07-01 15:51:46]
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itsnotfinals
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 23):
How is UA better for upgrades though?

much worse than US.

I am Gold on US and I can hardly wait for the improvements Doug has promised, US's first isn't so good, but getting better.

The last time I was on a 321 PHX-CLT the super hot flight attendant made up for the hot pocket they served by smiling alot and keeping my wine glass topped off the entire flight. Thankfully I didn't have to drive  Smile

[Edited 2007-07-01 16:03:22]
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flyboyaz
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 24):
much worse than US.

That's what I figured....

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 24):
I am Gold on US and I can hardly wait for the improvements Doug has promised, US's first isn't so good.

Yes I know...they haven't said much about what they are doing, except upgrading the meals and adding glass cups and silverware. They also said they are changing some of the procedures, though I have no idea what that means.

I haven't flown our FC with actual meal service in years, so I can't say much about it. However I've been on CO's domestic FC a few times and I must say I was very unimpressed with their service. The FA's were nice and all...but the food sucked! lol
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dutchjet
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 25):
. However I've been on CO's domestic FC a few times and I must say I was very unimpressed with their service. The FA's were nice and all...but the food sucked! lol

Funny, US offers zero service on all domestic flights........and then you go on to criticize CO's service and meal offerings?  Smile
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:08 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 26):
Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 25):
. However I've been on CO's domestic FC a few times and I must say I was very unimpressed with their service. The FA's were nice and all...but the food sucked! lol

Funny, US offers zero service on all domestic flights........and then you go on to criticize CO's service and meal offerings?

No kidding . . . comparing CO's domestic F class service/meals/comfort to US's any F class is laughable. CO beats US hands down, no question.

Sad to see US further degrading their VVFFs by taking out F seats in the 321s. They screwed the pooch when they decimated their 757s F cabins several years ago, and now they're doing it to their 321s.

Wake up US.
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itsnotfinals
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
Sad to see US further degrading their VVFFs by taking out F seats in the 321s. They screwed the pooch when they decimated their 757s F cabins several years ago, and now they're doing it to their 321s.

They are adding seats to the US East 757's, the east birds have only 2 rows so they can't get much worse  Smile

CO's product is much better absolutely. The last time I flew CO on a domestic 2 hour leg I got a 3 course meal.

On US your flight must be scheduled at >3.5 hours before the "Calzone" (Hot Pocket) or the "Seafood Pasta" (no comment) is served.
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flyboyaz
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 26):
Funny, US offers zero service on all domestic flights........and then you go on to criticize CO's service and meal offerings?

Zero service? Last time I flew to PHL (May 07) they served a meal of some kind in FC...I know because I could smell it! We don't try to compare ourselves to CO either...they charge more for their FC and it shows. I think they realized that even though we label ourselves as a LCC, we are still getting premium passengers so we needed to upgrade the product. Hopefully will help things.

When I flew CO last, it was a couple years ago so maybe things have gotten better. I flew from EWR-BDA and was served a breakfast sandwich that was heated through only half way....the cheese was melted on one side and cold on the other. I was starving so I ate it  Smile

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 28):
The last time I flew CO on a domestic 2 hour leg I got a 3 course meal.

Wow that's great. I flew FC TUS-IAH (2.25 hours) and they gave me a bowl of cereal and a banana. I guess with the drink it could be considered a 3 course meal...hehe.  Smile
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itsnotfinals
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:51 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 29):
Wow that's great. I flew FC TUS-IAH (2.25 hours) and they gave me a bowl of cereal and a banana. I guess with the drink it could be considered a 3 course meal...hehe

at least you got something  Smile DL's TUS-ATL morning departure in F gets you nothing at all, except all the free lotus cookies you want..... Smile
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bkircher
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:03 am

I personaly have never flown on a A321, but in opinion all of their planes including the AWA's planes need to have the interior updated. Personal ife and that sort of thing. Also make sure all of the windows are aligned with each seat.
 
N822ME
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:04 am

Exactly why I've gone from US Airways Chairman's Preferred to nothing. It's truly pathetic when your best customers (or now former customers) think that things were actually better in bankruptcy.

The front cabin seems to all be GoFirst people anyway. And it'll just take a couple of fuel stops before that high yielding customer decides to fly nonstop on somebody else, or even connect. But, US would rather chase ma and pa kettle's $50 than instill any loyalty.

Last letter I wrote to US went unanswered (back in February). I even attached a picture of what I was writing about....the mouse by my feet in the US Airways Club in PHL.
 
Boston92
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Itsnotfinals (Reply 30):
at least you got something DL's TUS-ATL morning departure in F gets you nothing at all, except all the free lotus cookies you want.....

I love the UA morning LAX-DEN on the 757 in F because they actually serve you a breakfast, and it is pretty damn good too.
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 29):
I think they realized that even though we label ourselves as a LCC, we are still getting premium passengers so we needed to upgrade the product. Hopefully will help things.

What's the deal with US Airways being called LCC (stock symbol). It sounds like a joke for one of the traditionally highest cost carriers to be hyping themselves as a low cost carrier. US Airways problem is that LCC stands for low cost competition and not low cost carrier.

Funny but it looks like Lumina Copper Corp (LCC) is somehow involved (corporate restructuring in 2005) for US Airways to grab the stock market symbol. There's even a press Release on the US Airways site confirming Lumina Copper Corporation's intro into the AMEX on 5/10/2005. What's Lumina have to do with US Airways?
---------------------------------
From the US Airways Press RElease section of their website 5/10/05

NEW YORK, May 10 /PRNewswire/ -- The American Stock Exchange(R) (Amex(R)) today listed the common stock of Lumina Copper Corp. under the ticker symbol LCC.

Lumina Copper Corp. is engaged in acquisition, exploration and development of copper resources in both North and South America.

[Edited 2007-07-01 22:27:47]
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FCYTravis
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 23):
How is UA better for upgrades though? Their 319/320 have the same or less seats in FC than ours do and their 757's only have a few more in FC.

A few more? No, try almost double - the 757s are 24F, and there are 97 of them in the UA fleet.

Furthermore, the F-cabin product is substantially superior in every way to anything Dougie's airline offers. For example, on an ORD-PHL UA breakfast flight, a route on which US offers nothing but the snack basket, I was provided with hot apple-filled pancakes with syrup, sausage and ham and a fruit bowl.

As a 1P, I have had quite acceptable upgrade success. When I hit 1K later this year, it'll get even better. When I don't get upgraded, I can be assured of sitting in a high-quality coach product with up to 36 inches of seat pitch - that's as much as HP/US offers in First Class on some aircraft!

This isn't to say UA is perfect, but when it comes to on-board service, US isn't even in the same ZIP code.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
rolo987
Posts: 240
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting Bkircher (Reply 31):
I personaly have never flown on a A321, but in opinion all of their planes including the AWA's planes need to have the interior updated. Personal ife and that sort of thing. Also make sure all of the windows are aligned with each seat.

1. US' A321s are actually quite nice to fly on. Nicer than their 737s and 757s.

2. Most airlines have a few seats on their aircraft with misaligned windows, not just US.
 
nzrich
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:10 am

Actually reducing seats is actually a good thing for profits instead of giving away seats at $ 00 and upgrading passengers maybe they will actually earn more .. At Air NZ we did away with business domestically i know our routes are shorter but we made more money on selling just a low cost economy than we did with business class which was mainly upgrades.. Now if US Airways is like Air NZ and upgrades people then selling a few extra economy seats will actually bring in more $$ for the company ...

Yes it may not be easy now getting your free upgrade but hey airlines are there to make a profit ..A first class cabin full of upgrades is not making a profit .. When a smaller first cabin mainly full of first class revenue passengers is ..
"Pride of the pacific"
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Nzrich (Reply 37):
When a smaller first cabin mainly full of first class revenue passengers is ..

But the F-cabin product that US offers is so uncompetitive that there can't possibly be any significant number of people paying for it. It's an industry joke.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
itsnotfinals
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 38):
But the F-cabin product that US offers is so uncompetitive that there can't possibly be any significant number of people paying for it. It's an industry joke.

It's about equal to DL' and NW's first.

UA's customer service (gate agents) are a joke, so they are all about even.
Speedbird 178 Heavy, FINAL runway 27L
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 35):
A few more? No, try almost double - the 757s are 24F, and there are 97 of them in the UA fleet.

Well you might want to subtract the 13 p.s. configured aircraft.


But before you get to comfortable with United's configurations be aware they are themselves going to be making changes come this winter.

A319 - +4 F class seats, matching A320 config of F12
A320 - +6 Y class seats. rear cabin wall and aft galley get some adjustments as a result
B757 - F class reduction to I believe was 16 (could be 12).

Ultimately just like US Airways and its cabin reconfigurations the name of the game is to eek out as much revenue from each flight as possible and lots of quantitative revenue modeling goes into such changes.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 40):
Well you might want to subtract the 13 p.s. configured aircraft.

Those actually have even more premium cabin capacity - 12F/26C/72Y. Best premium-to-Y ratio of any aircraft flown by a US airline.

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 40):
B757 - F class reduction to I believe was 16 (could be 12).

There's never been any confirmation of that, and I would be shocked if it came to pass. Doesn't make any sense, given how many 757 F-cabins I've seen sell out - not upgrade out, but sell out.

[Edited 2007-07-01 23:59:30]
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 41):
There's never been any confirmation of that

I guess you'll see when it happens.  Wink Currently 1st plane is due in for mods week of Nov 5th.

While the 757 might run seemingly business markets including ones such as SFO/LAX-ORD and some transcons, they also operate heavily to places such as Hawaii, the DEN hub (much less premium demand) and also frequently in places such short hop CA corridor flying.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Flighty
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting N822ME (Reply 32):
The front cabin seems to all be GoFirst people anyway.

Exactly, so that is why they're cutting the size of First on the A321.

Honestly people, why be so, so emotional. This is a good business decision that will help US lower their CASM and still offer people the exact same level of service they got before... whether that's a great thing or not.

The A321 will not see any big difference from an extra 2000 lb payload on typical missions. If there are any real difficulties then they'll block off some seats electronically on PHL-SFO and LAX flights. That adds up to MORE comfort and open middle seats for people. And, the many PHL-CLT-TPA type flights the A321 does can be full at 180 pax. This is a good fuel saving measure that will use the A321 to the peak of its ability.

To use the 757, get real. US is retiring the type. It is an antique, needed for ETOPS flying but it has no place in the domestic network whatsoever... the 757s will be lined up in the desert before too long. They burn too much $70 per bbl fuel.
 
ScottB
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 43):
This is a good business decision that will help US lower their CASM and still offer people the exact same level of service they got before... whether that's a great thing or not.

The question really is whether this decision will also lower RASM enough to outweigh the lower CASM. US is seeing formerly loyal Preferred Dividend Miles choosing to take status matches at its competitors, and the typical Preferred member brings the airline better RASM than the once-or-twice-a-year flyer who just chose the lowest fare on insert-name-of-travel-site-here. Otherwise, why would the airlines even bother with Elite/Preferred/Premier levels in their frequent flyer programs with their attendant rewards like upgrades?

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 19):
The A321 reconfiguration has cost US a number of elite members - including myself. I was an 85k Plat last year, and that's gone to 0k this year.

If you lose a customer who probably spent five figures on air tickets last year, how many price-sensitive leisure travelers does it take to replace his/her spend?

You have to ask why US Airways ran that "Everything Counts" promo for the last three months of 2006 in which even partner miles counted toward Preferred status. With the unreliability of the operation since the SHARES switchover, retaining high-value customers has become more and more difficult.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 43):
The A321 will not see any big difference from an extra 2000 lb payload on typical missions. If there are any real difficulties then they'll block off some seats electronically on PHL-SFO and LAX flights. That adds up to MORE comfort and open middle seats for people. And, the many PHL-CLT-TPA type flights the A321 does can be full at 180 pax.

If they're having to block seats on transcons on a regular basis, they should probably consider using a better-suited member of the fleet like the A320 or A319. And while adding more coach seats will free up additional cheap seats for the airline to sell, higher-paying customers on the East Coast will probably shift their flying over to Continental or Delta.
 
Flighty
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 19):
I was an 85k Plat last year, and that's gone to 0k this year. Switched over to United. Anecdotal reports are that it's difficult even for Chairman's pax to get upgraded on transcons - and given the stingy US meal policy, transcons are about the only flights where upgrades mean anything more than a bigger seat and free booze.

Oh really. And the reconfig has not even begun yet! So, what are your anecdotal reports talking about, anyway? 757 routes out of Vegas perhaps? I doubt the A321s were filling with 26 Charman's Preferred, but you never know.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 19):

Many US transcons have been cut to A319s, to boot.

The A319 is a nice jet. US's have as many / or more F seats as United, and fewer Preferred members. Food for thought.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):
With the unreliability of the operation since the SHARES switchover, retaining high-value customers has become more and more difficult.

I think that is a fair point. But, US ran the 2nd most on-time operation in 2006. 2007 had some hiccups as you note, but recently US seems to have been functioning smoothly. Naturally, one-time systems upgrades can have one-time problems, and US was very apologetic about that. All in all, it was small potatoes compared to NWA's summer cancellations for example.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):
If they're having to block seats on transcons on a regular basis, they should probably consider using a better-suited member of the fleet like the A320 or A319. And while adding more coach seats will free up additional cheap seats for the airline to sell, higher-paying customers on the East Coast will probably shift their flying over to Continental or Delta.

I think US is fairly advanced in its ability to choose the correct aircraft and seat config for most routes. They ordered a mess of additional A321s because they like that type. They do not want 150 seat jets on transcon (A320s have shorter range, by the way). The A319 is simply in another class than the A321. US wants its transcons on A321. It already works fine every day (except some rare days, when A320s mainly stopped anyway, not A321s).

US will probably conduct a major upgrade of its in-flight product to compete for domestic premium traffic. The F class product needs a revamp so we may see much more luxurious things from US. The current seats are very old, anyway. I do not think they intend to remain static. And again, this A321 reconfig is small potatoes which I doubt will affect the real FFs of US Airways. If you're not in the top 16, you're probably not a super VVFF. Just as important to the calculus, also, is your fellow passengers. United, AA and Delta all have far bigger VVFF pools than US Airways.
 
ProPHX
Posts: 21
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RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 45):
Oh really. And the reconfig has not even begun yet! So, what are your anecdotal reports talking about, anyway? 757 routes out of Vegas perhaps? I doubt the A321s were filling with 26 Charman's Preferred, but you never know.

The reconfiguration on US A321s has begun. I've been on two flights with the smaller FC. I was not upgraded on either segment, and I was gold at the time, and now I'm platinum.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 45):
Oh really. And the reconfig has not even begun yet!

That's categorically false. At least one aircraft, if not more, has already gone through the F-ectomy. Furthermore, as I said, many of the transcons have been cut to 12F A320s/A319s anyway - and yes, they are filling those with CPs. More than filling them.

When this reconfig completes, US will not have a single domestic aircraft with more than 16 premium cabin seats, and at that, will have only 28 planes with that many. Its competitors - be it CO, UA, DL, NW or AA - each have literally hundreds of such aircraft, from 757s to MD-80s or even A319s.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 45):
And again, this A321 reconfig is small potatoes which I doubt will affect the real FFs of US Airways.

It's hardly "small potatoes" to remove almost half the F-cabin from the primary transcontinental aircraft. It *has* affected the real FFs on US Airways. Might want to pay attention to the FT board a bit.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4691
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:22 pm

Quoting Rolo987 (Reply 36):
1. US' A321s are actually quite nice to fly on. Nicer than their 737s and 757s.

Hell of a lot newer.

Quoting Rolo987 (Reply 36):
2. Most airlines have a few seats on their aircraft with misaligned windows, not just US.

Nothing is as bad as those Mesa RJ's imo.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 44):
The question really is whether this decision will also lower RASM enough to outweigh the lower CASM. US is seeing formerly loyal Preferred Dividend Miles choosing to take status matches at its competitors, and the typical Preferred member brings the airline better RASM than the once-or-twice-a-year flyer who just chose the lowest fare on insert-name-of-travel-site-here. Otherwise, why would the airlines even bother with Elite/Preferred/Premier levels in their frequent flyer programs with their attendant rewards like upgrades?

Maybe United, et al have a loyal base of FF who regularly pay full price for F tickets. Myself, I see lots of US FF who book seats in Y and then demand an upgrade at the gate. As far as I've seen our F is about 75% gate upgrades. Is that a problem? I do think there is something wrong with that. Seeing as the airline makes more money off a full-price Y ticket than a $100 F upgrade...why not normalize the system? US is not going to arbitrarily cut the number of F seats by x amount without closely looking at the average percentage of those seats actually filled by paying, non-upgrade passengers. Soon, it will be good luck trying to upgrade, and if you actually get an F upgrade, congratulations....instead of it being a free-for-all.

As far as cutting F services goes...US isn't trying to be UA nor is US trying to be WN. We will never have a first-class section that takes up half the aircraft, we will also never be all-coach (speaking of mainline, that is). We are just fine filling that middle spot, and making plenty of money doing so.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: Is US Reconfiguring Their A321?

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 47):

It's hardly "small potatoes" to remove almost half the F-cabin from the primary transcontinental aircraft. It *has* affected the real FFs on US Airways. Might want to pay attention to the FT board a bit.

A few years ago, CO reduced F class seating on its 753s to 12 seats (the 753s were intended to fly to high demand, low yeild destinaitons.....think MCO and LAS) and it became a very big issue, FFs were upset and were avoiding the 753s whenever possible. When CO picked up the ATA birds, they were configured with 24 F seats and the entire 753 fleet was once again re-configured back to 24 F seats. Also note that CO is adding 2 F class seats on most 737NGs by reducing closet/storage space.

Why is CO doing this? Its a business decision....first, it seems that demand for F class is actually on the increase (yes, some pax actually do pay to sit up front on domestic US flights) and the upgrade is the number one perk that most frequent fliers are looking for. I really quesiton if US is making the right decision....sometimes I think that airlines underestimate the value of that upgrade for very frequent flyers.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 47):
It's hardly "small potatoes" to remove almost half the F-cabin from the primary transcontinental aircraft. It *has* affected the real FFs on US Airways. Might want to pay attention to the FT board a bit.

Agreed.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 47):
F-ectomy

Cute.

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