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British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:22 pm

London - Angola's civil aviation authority has rescinded British Airways' permit to fly into the southwestern African nation, a spokesperson for the airline said on Monday.

"We were informed on Friday by the Angolan CAA that it had rescinded BA's seasonal operating permit with immediate effect," BA spokesperson Richard Goodfellow said.

http://www.fin24.co.za/articles/defa...x?Nav=ns&ArticleID=1518-24_2140111
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trekster
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:33 pm

Interesting!!!

UK government ban an airline thats not good on safety, and then they Ban BA in retaliation.

What a nice government they have
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ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:37 pm

Quoting Trekster (Reply 1):
Interesting!!!

UK government ban an airline thats not good on safety, and then they Ban BA in retaliation.

What a nice government they have

Huh, an African government that doesn't abide by a rule of law, have any semblance of justice, or wishes to grease its plams at the expense of its citizenry? Wow. Maybe Indonesia could give them some lessons in aviation oversight. No, wait...
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schipholjfk
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:42 pm

Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares
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TK787
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

If BA didn't care, they wouldn't fly there to start with.
 
B742
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

Actualy BA's LHR-LAD-LHR route is extremely proftiable despite the low frequency.

Intresting move from the Angolan CAA.
Reminds me of the Indian-Kuwaiti saga.

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airbazar
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

Why don't you go learn something before you make yourself look silly. This is a very high yield route for BA. The only reason they don't fly it daily is because Angola doesn't allow it. Every major airline in Europe would fly to LAD daily if they were allowed to.
 
Maersk737
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 10:55 pm

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 6):



Quoting Airbazar (Reply 6):
Why don't you go learn something before you make yourself look silly. This is a very high yield route for BA. The only reason they don't fly it daily is because Angola doesn't allow it. Every major airline in Europe would fly to LAD daily if they were allowed to.

No very big problem for BA though.

Cheers

Peter

[Edited 2007-07-02 15:56:59]
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MaverickM11
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:04 pm

Of course this hurts Angola more than it hurts BA
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ENU
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:11 pm

What about the other European carriers? Aren't Lufthansa and TAP flying to LAD? It's EU measure, so if the Angolan government is consistent, they would ban all EU-carriers... Ending all direct flights between Europe and Angola.
 
madhatter
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:14 pm

Is it just BA that is banned from Angola or the rest of the EU carriers that fly there as well - Air France, TAP etc. as I was under the impression that it was the EU that banned TAAG from flying in EU airspace and not the British government specifically.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:17 pm

No great loss is it?!!
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting ENU (Reply 9):
Aren't Lufthansa and TAP flying to LAD? It's EU measure, so if the Angolan government is consistent, they would ban all EU-carriers...

TAP flies there most days of the week. Banning them would hurt Angolans too much, there are many Angolans living in Portugal and lots of trade between the countries as well.

Lufthansa... well... you never know.
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airbazar
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting G-CIVP (Reply 11):
No great loss is it?!!

No, not a huge loss network wise, but a loss nontheless, especially considering the high yields on this route from Oil industry customers.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
Reminds me of the Indian-Kuwaiti saga.

Theres no connection.That was Not safety related.
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dkny
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:27 pm

Banning some aircrafts from TAAG maybee I can understand, but all aircrafts! TAAG has 2 777-200ER they received less than a year ago. What's up with that?
 
B742
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
Theres no connection.That was Not safety related.

I wasn't refering to that sense. It was the case of one banning (or possibly banning) the other after another  Smile

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WINGS
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

You have no idea how dumb you have just portrayed your self to be.  Wow! Angola is currently one of the fastest growing economies in the world. I suggest that you do some research in the future before making such wild and incorrect assumptions.

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
Actualy BA's LHR-LAD-LHR route is extremely profitable despite the low frequency.

Correct and the only reason that it is low frequency is that BA has not been granted any more rights. In regards to Tap Portugal I believe that they will not take any drastic measures as Portugal have very close ties with Angola.

Regards,
Wings
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MaverickM11
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Dkny (Reply 15):
TAAG has 2 777-200ER they received less than a year ago. What's up with that?

They're operated by TAAG, and a poorly maintained 777 is not much safer than a poorly maintained 743

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 12):
Lufthansa... well... you never know.

LH doesn't fly there right now; are they planning to? They aren't any time before December 2007.

On a related note, anyone know why ET is flying an AB3 to LAD? Where did the plane come from?
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macc
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:39 pm

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 12):
Lufthansa... well... you never know

They dont fly to Angola as far as I know...
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mahan
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angol

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:42 pm

Quoting B742 (Reply 5):
Intresting move from the Angolan CAA.
Reminds me of the Indian-Kuwaiti saga.

Hmm..Not quite the same.. Indian-Kuwaiti saga was due to business disagreements on both sides..
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dkny
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:43 pm

ET does not have any AB3's and the LAD flight is operated by a 763 3x a week.
 
ENU
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:46 pm

Quoting Macc (Reply 19):
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 12):
Lufthansa... well... you never know

They dont fly to Angola as far as I know...

Correct, but AF and SN do. They could retaliate upon AF, because TAAG is banned from CDG.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Dkny (Reply 21):
ET does not have any AB3's and the LAD flight is operated by a 763 3x a week.

In OAG it's showing as a 254 seat AB3, only on ADDLAD.
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dkny
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:59 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):
In OAG it's showing as a 254 seat AB3, only on ADDLAD.

ET's website shows a 767 all week and shows the same for the flight that left this morning.
 
bsbisland
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:06 am

What is TAAG going to do with its 777s and 743s as they are not going to fly to Europe anymore?
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting Macc (Reply 19):
They dont fly to Angola as far as I know...

Argh, now I get flamed for not checking someone else's lack of research. When I said LH I assumed ENU had checked that LH does indeed fly there. How could I...

Alright, I'll rephrase: banning TP would hurt Angola too much, as for the others I have no idea...

[Edited 2007-07-02 17:34:49]
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domokun
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting ENU (Reply 9):
What about the other European carriers? Aren't Lufthansa and TAP flying to LAD? It's EU measure, so if the Angolan government is consistent, they would ban all EU-carriers... Ending all direct flights between Europe and Angola.

While there is not enough information for me to know whether this is just a BA-specific action or part of a wider EU retaliation, if it is targeted specifically towards BA it seems akin to a good deal of anti-Americanism experienced elsewhere. Not that the US does not do its fair share of things which warrant criticism, however, reactions are sometimes just directed at the most visible target instead of the actual decision-making body.

Generally it is best when governments avoid playing these games since it hurts individuals and companies way more than it hurts governments.
 
samair
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:47 am

have we got any explanation as to why British Airways has been banned from Angola?  sarcastic  'due to safety concerns' or have they denied to comment? Weve pissed off Angola so they have banned ba, would Angola let bmi for instance start a service?
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mandala499
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 am

Well, at least I am now proud to say that we're able to hold our tempers longer than the Angolans... LOL

Not that it means much...

Mandala499
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yowza
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:03 am

This ladies and gentleman is Africa in a nutshell. This type of petty action without proper thought is synonymous with the continents many ridiculous governments. The saddest part of all this is that Angola is a wealthy enough state to be able to fund and run an airline to western standards but they simply choose not to. Real shame.

YOWza
 
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TR763
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting BSBIsland (Reply 25):
What is TAAG going to do with its 777s and 743s as they are not going to fly to Europe anymore?

Put them all to GIG!!  Wink
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MaverickM11
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:12 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 30):
This ladies and gentleman is Africa in a nutshell.

Sad but true. I'll never understand cutting off your nose to spite your face. Even from an economic perspective, BA brings more people and business for corrupt Angolan officials to rob, so why turn them away?
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md90fan
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

Before you make yourself look like an ass again, you may want to take note that Angola had the world's fastest growing economy last year (GDP leapt alone by 20%) and will export as much oil as Kuwait (2,000,000bbd). In addition to strong business from the oil sector, many companies have contractors rebuilding Angola's infrastructure after a civil war, and when you factor in the Angolan community in Portugal, etc you see why it's a profitable route for many European airlines.
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PipoA380
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:16 am

Quoting JoKeR (Thread starter):

"We were informed on Friday by the Angolan CAA that it had rescinded BA's seasonal operating permit with immediate effect,

Oh yeah... that's just like the black lists. It's all political, nothing to do with safety. Ban an airline that will never affect your country, or else... sad isn't it?
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
tiago701
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:21 am

Quoting ENU (Reply 9):
What about the other European carriers? Aren't Lufthansa and TAP flying to LAD? It's EU measure, so if the Angolan government is consistent, they would ban all EU-carriers... Ending all direct flights between Europe and Angola.

I think it's a matter of time for that to happen. As the Angolan government already said that it will reciprocate all eventual banning measures any EU state may have.

To my understanding the UK was, so far, the only EU state communicating this banning to TAAG. Although it is an EU decision it's up to each individual state (Civil Aviation Authorities) to enforce it.

Also, as far i understood, a final decision is still to be made by the EU in the next couple of days about the recommendations EU experts have made to include TAAG in the black list.

As of now, maybe the UK just precipitated in their communication to TAAG?
 
tiago701
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:27 am

It seems that the decision of including TAAG in the EU "black list" will become official this Wednesday anyway.
 
tiago701
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:28 am

...and by the way, i think Schipholjfk already got the message!
 
KL577
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 30):
This ladies and gentleman is Africa in a nutshell.

This generalization is unfair to quite a number of well-governed countries in Africa. What you meant to say is that this is typical for Angola and a few other countries (countries in which looting of mineral reseources by a lucky few has been institutionalized).

Quoting ENU (Reply 22):
Quoting Macc (Reply 19):
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 12):
Lufthansa... well... you never know

They dont fly to Angola as far as I know...

Correct, but AF and SN do. They could retaliate upon AF, because TAAG is banned from CDG.

To summarize (I posted this yesterday in the African Aviation thread) TP, SN, BA and AF are the only European airlines currently serving LAD. Angola's policies for giving landing rights has been very restrictive. BA, AF and SN all have one weekly flight, only TP a number of flights a week. There were rumours of talks of getting landing rights for KL (and I guess LH would love to get access to this lucrative market as well), complementing the few services of AF. But I don't see such negotiations succeeding in the current atmosphere.
 
N1120A
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 1):
UK government ban an airline thats not good on safety, and then they Ban BA in retaliation.

What a nice government they have

Hey, it is completely within their right to do so. It is sort of like Brazil requiring similar procedures to the US for people entering the country after the new US rules came into effect.
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Geo772
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 35):
o my understanding the UK was, so far, the only EU state communicating this banning to TAAG. Although it is an EU decision it's up to each individual state (Civil Aviation Authorities) to enforce it.

The British CAA still insist on some of the highest standards in the world, so it would not suprise me if they are leading the way here.
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tiago701
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 38):
only TP a number of flights a week

6 weekly, to be completely accurate and was to go daily from this month... Lets see what happens then.
 
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yowza
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting KL577 (Reply 38):
This generalization is unfair to quite a number of well-governed countries in Africa. What you meant to say is that this is typical for Angola and a few other countries (countries in which looting of mineral reseources by a lucky few has been institutionalized).

I beg to differ. Without exception every country on the continent has at some point in recent history taken an action as petty as this one in response to the actions of another government. I've lived in Africa for many years so I've seen this on the ground. Don't believe me? Name a few countries and I will cite a petty action taken by the government in response to another.

As for this TAAG/Angola/UK/BA debacle lets hope TAAG get their act together, get landing rights in the EU again and this stupidity ends.

YOWza
 
LipeGIG
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting TR763 (Reply 31):
Put them all to GIG!!

TP will love this... first because of their service LIS-LAD, and second because they can get some connections LAD-GIG-LIS.

But it's a big problem where to use their brand new 772 as AFAIK they are not ETOPS certified yet.

Felipe
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tiago701
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Geo772 (Reply 40):
The British CAA still insist on some of the highest standards in the world, so it would not suprise me if they are leading the way here.

Not questioning that, but just think CAA should have waited for the decision to be official. Does TAAG even started their flights to LGW?
 
Anetter123
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

Oh for crying out loud, its embarrasing to even read this post!!! Do you know anything about Angola and its recent economic growth which explains why BA and perhaps many other carriers would want to start service to LAD???
 
Morvious
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:53 am

It almost happend to HV when Onur Air was banned if I remember correctly, but now, when one sheep crosses, the new will follow?
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Vega9000
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Tiago701 (Reply 35):
To my understanding the UK was, so far, the only EU state communicating this banning to TAAG. Although it is an EU decision it's up to each individual state (Civil Aviation Authorities) to enforce it.

Interesting...

I wonder what will be the response from the Portuguese authorities on this subject, since this is an important route to TP.
Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.
 
KL577
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:59 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 42):
I beg to differ. Without exception every country on the continent has at some point in recent history taken an action as petty as this one in response to the actions of another government. I've lived in Africa for many years so I've seen this on the ground. Don't believe me? Name a few countries and I will cite a petty action taken by the government in response to another.

In the last 10-15 years quite a few countries in Africa have been run by well organized and knowledgeable governments, with decreasing rates of corruption, and stable and diversified economic growth. Senegal, Benin, Tanzania, Mozambique and as of recent Ghana come to mind. Im a not arguing that basically all African countries have had their bad episodes.

The bottom line is that Angola is not one of these promising countries, and is being governed by a selected group of people who have no interest in the country but only themselves. This is reflected in this ignorant decision.
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: British Airways Banned! Tit-for-tat From Angola

Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 3):
Like BA is going to miss any business revenue! Angola who? No one cares

You've been owned, bro.

As an aside, my wife's been to Angola a few times for the World Bank, and she loved it.

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