positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:51 am

Just found out that Delta/ASA will be closing the MCN station effective 9/1 due to lack of demand. The announcement will be made later today or tomorrow. Load factors have run in the low 30's, with low yields as well. ASA will keep the maintenance base there for now, but look for it to be closed in the near term as well, and the employees offered jobs in ATL or other parts of the system.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:05 am

If th MX base is there doesnt it make sense to run a passenger paying flight so long as enough pax are on board to pay for the FA and station personnel??? This is kinda like American Eagle in MQT. I am sure they wouldnt normally fly trhere but if the MX base is there AMR has made the judegment that so long as enough pax pay to offset the FA , it makes sense to fly there
 
A380fo
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:10 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:34 am

Yea i would too if you saw the loads. Look at them:

4323 MCN ATL 3JUL 545A 3JUL 623A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 49/52 (50)
4724 MCN ATL 3JUL 725A 3JUL 825A DELTA* AT7 N/A N/A 53/59 (64)
4725 MCN ATL 3JUL 835A 3JUL 926A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 30/33 (40)

4323 MCN ATL 4JUL 545A 4JUL 623A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 50/53 (50)
4724 MCN ATL 4JUL 700A 4JUL 744A DELTA* CR7 N/A N/A 63/69 (70)
4725 MCN ATL 4JUL 835A 4JUL 926A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 23/26 (40)
 
flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:32 am

Why not just downgrade the equipment to a ATR?
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:47 am

That will leave MCN with no scheduled passenger service. EV's flights in/out of MCN have never really been heavy flights. When I worked for EV 7 years back, we had a 2345 ATL-MCN flight (E-120) that usually left with no more than 2-3 pax on a regular basis. It was not uncommon to send it out once a week with no pax.

That means that MCN pax won't be getting cheaper fares to fly out of MCN to places via ATL. I've done searches for cheap flights to places out of ATL and some of the itineraries included an MCN-ATL and ATL-MCN flight and were cheaper than the non-stop out of ATL. But since I live so close to ATL, it wasn't worth it; now if I lived closer to MCN than ATL, then yes.

Atlanta is not that far of a drive from the Macon-Warner Robins area, usually no more than an hour to 1:15 when traffic is smooth. I'm sure this will mean that the shuttle bus companies that offer service between Macon and ATL will see a rise in business.



Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
If th MX base is there doesnt it make sense to run a passenger paying flight so long as enough pax are on board to pay for the FA and station personnel???

You can only subsidize losses on short hops for so long.


US/HP has an MX contractor they use @ MCN and they'll ferry a/c ATL-MCN-ATL..

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 3):
Why not just downgrade the equipment to a ATR?

In some of these cases, the a/c being used to operate a flight is scheduled for MX work down @ MCN. So the a/c has to get down to MCN either by operating a revenue flight or by being ferried. Same is true in returning an a/c back into service from MX work.

[Edited 2007-07-03 00:50:03]
 
cvg2lga
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting A380fo (Reply 2):
Yea i would too if you saw the loads. Look at them:

4323 MCN ATL 3JUL 545A 3JUL 623A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 49/52 (50)
4724 MCN ATL 3JUL 725A 3JUL 825A DELTA* AT7 N/A N/A 53/59 (64)
4725 MCN ATL 3JUL 835A 3JUL 926A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 30/33 (40)

4323 MCN ATL 4JUL 545A 4JUL 623A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 50/53 (50)
4724 MCN ATL 4JUL 700A 4JUL 744A DELTA* CR7 N/A N/A 63/69 (70)
4725 MCN ATL 4JUL 835A 4JUL 926A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 23/26 (40)

That isn't very accurate, mind you tomorrow is a light travel day as most people are where they want to be by tonights end and won't be moving much on the holiday itself. Not to say that the reason to end service isn't warranted, but your example isn't the best.

LAX to ATL Wednesday, 4 July, 2007

1556 ATL LAX 3JUL 700A 3JUL 838A DELTA 752 8/8 (26) 43/58 (158)
0110 ATL LAX 3JUL 836A 3JUL 1010A DELTA 763 10/10 (24) 33/55 (226)
0459 ATL LAX 3JUL 1000A 3JUL 1141A DELTA 752 15/15 (26) 8/21 (158)
0407 ATL LAX 3JUL 1100A 3JUL 1238P DELTA 763 3/3 (24) 28/41 (226)
1185 ATL LAX 3JUL 132P 3JUL 259P DELTA 763 7/7 (24) 10/18 (226)
0885 ATL LAX 3JUL 250P 3JUL 421P DELTA 764 7/7 (36) 16/35 (249)
0109 ATL LAX 3JUL 415P 3JUL 609P DELTA 763 8/8 (24) 26/39 (226)
0075 ATL LAX 3JUL 535P 3JUL 723P DELTA 763 7/7 (24) 16/33 (226)
0115 ATL LAX 3JUL 650P 3JUL 839P DELTA 752 9/9 (26) 22/37 (158)
1187 ATL LAX 3JUL 815P 3JUL 1003P DELTA 752 6/6 (26) 21/34 (158)
1849 ATL LAX 3JUL 935P 3JUL 1123P DELTA 757 16/16 (24) 19/37 (159)


0560 LAX ATL 3JUL 1255A 3JUL 814A DELTA 752 12/12 (26) N/A 3/16 (158)
0744 LAX ATL 3JUL 610A 3JUL 133P DELTA 763 5/5 (24) N/A 22/35 (226)
0074 LAX ATL 3JUL 730A 3JUL 257P DELTA 763 N/A 3/3 (24) 24/36 (226)
0108 LAX ATL 3JUL 830A 3JUL 355P DELTA 764 N/A 4/4 (36) 23/41 (249)
0928 LAX ATL 3JUL 1000A 3JUL 527P DELTA 752 5/5 (26) N/A -1/8 (158)
0101 LAX ATL 3JUL 1115A 3JUL 650P DELTA 763 N/A 8/8 (24) 16/28 (226)
0152 LAX ATL 3JUL 1235P 3JUL 807P DELTA 752 N/A 6/6 (26) 27/35 (158)
1470 LAX ATL 3JUL 140P 3JUL 904P DELTA 763 4/4 (24) N/A 29/40 (226)
1426 LAX ATL 3JUL 436P 3JUL 1159P DELTA 757 5/5 (24) N/A 12/24 (159)
1566 LAX ATL 3JUL 1040P 4JUL 600A DELTA 763 5/5 (24) N/A 8/20 (226)
0806 LAX ATL 3JUL 1155P 4JUL 711A DELTA 752 4/4 (26) N/A -4/7 (158)




1556 ATL LAX 4JUL 700A 4JUL 838A DELTA 752 17/17 (26) N/A 59/63 (158)
0110 ATL LAX 4JUL 836A 4JUL 1010A DELTA 763 N/A 17/17 (24) 41/60 (226)
0189 ATL LAX 4JUL 1000A 4JUL 1135A DELTA 777 N/A 17/17 (50) 14/32 (218)
0407 ATL LAX 4JUL 1100A 4JUL 1238P DELTA 763 7/7 (24) N/A 31/45 (226)
1185 ATL LAX 4JUL 132P 4JUL 259P DELTA 763 12/12 (24) N/A 30/45 (226)
0885 ATL LAX 4JUL 250P 4JUL 421P DELTA 764 10/10 (36) N/A 24/42 (249)
0109 ATL LAX 4JUL 415P 4JUL 609P DELTA 763 N/A 10/10 (24) 30/44 (226)
0075 ATL LAX 4JUL 535P 4JUL 723P DELTA 763 N/A 19/19 (24) 39/53 (226)
0115 ATL LAX 4JUL 650P 4JUL 839P DELTA 752 N/A 18/18 (26) 14/28 (158)
1849 ATL LAX 4JUL 935P 4JUL 1123P DELTA 757 10/10 (24) N/A 16/29 (159)



LAX to ATL Wednesday, 4 July, 2007


0560 LAX ATL 4JUL 1255A 4JUL 814A DELTA 752 6/6 (26) 6/15 (158)
0744 LAX ATL 4JUL 610A 4JUL 133P DELTA 763 7/7 (24) 33/48 (226)
0074 LAX ATL 4JUL 730A 4JUL 257P DELTA 763 0/0 (24) 23/34 (226)
0108 LAX ATL 4JUL 830A 4JUL 355P DELTA 764 15/15 (36) 32/52 (249)
0928 LAX ATL 4JUL 1000A 4JUL 527P DELTA 752 5/5 (26) 19/29 (158)
0101 LAX ATL 4JUL 1115A 4JUL 650P DELTA 763 9/9 (24) 19/31 (226)
0152 LAX ATL 4JUL 1240P 4JUL 802P DELTA 777 25/25 (50) 40/58 (218)
1470 LAX ATL 4JUL 140P 4JUL 904P DELTA 763 7/7 (24) 48/63 (226)
1426 LAX ATL 4JUL 436P 4JUL 1159P DELTA 757 16/16 (24) 68/80 (159)
1566 LAX ATL 4JUL 1040P 5JUL 600A DELTA 763 11/11 (24) 21/36 (226)


Lots of open seats as you see.
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
ASA will keep the maintenance base there for now, but look for it to be closed in the near term as well, and the employees offered jobs in ATL or other parts of the system.

I wouldn't be surprised if ASA took the old Delta North Tech Ops facility at ATL right next to FL's hangar. They park dozens of their aircraft over there now anyway...inside and out.
 
A380fo
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:10 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:35 am

Quoting CVG2LGA (Reply 5):

you should've seen the loads earlier this week to ATL.


HORRIBLE!
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:51 am

How do the other small Georgia cities -- CSG, VLD, BQK, AGS, AHN, and ABY -- do for DL? When I was little, I remember seeing DL 737s in CSG -- don't know if they were irregular ops or scheduled service, probably the former...still cool all the same.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 8):
AHN

DL doesn't serve AHN. And US is abandoning the EAS route soon.
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:56 am

My bad on that one. Why is US abandoning it? Is the subsidy set to run out, or are they losing money regardless?
 
Rookinla
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 10):
Why is US abandoning it?

US is abandoning numerous Express routes, not just Athens but also Franklin/Oil City, Dubois, etc. Just not enough money to justify the service. Gulfstream is currently the only bidder for the abandoned US EAS routes.
 
LearJet60
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:35 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 10):
My bad on that one. Why is US abandoning it? Is the subsidy set to run out, or are they losing money regardless?

US isn't abandoning it. Air Midwest (which operated for USAirways Express) gave up a lot of their EAS routes. Gulfstream is supposed to be awarded the subsidized EAS contract in about six weeks at AHN and three other cities pending their reaching a codeshare/marketing agreement with US Airways.

[Edited 2007-07-03 04:14:33]
 
blueheronNC
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:19 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 8):
How do the other small Georgia cities -- CSG, VLD, BQK, AGS, AHN, and ABY -- do for DL? When I was little, I remember seeing DL 737s in CSG -- don't know if they were irregular ops or scheduled service, probably the former...still cool all the same.

Here are load factors from Feb. 2007:

MCN-ATL: 16.1%
VLD-ATL: 42.3%
CSG-ATL: 43.4%
BQK-ATL: 43.4%
ABY-ATL: 64.3%
AGS-ATL: 68.7%

In comparison, here is June 2006:

MCN-ATL: 31.0%
CSG-ATL: 54.3%
BQK-ATL: 57.8%
ABY-ATL: 60.2%
AGS-ATL: 71.0%
VLD-ATL: 73.7%
 
A380fo
Posts: 210
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:10 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:05 pm

4628 ATL CSG 3JUL 1224P 3JUL 109P DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A -2/1 (50)
4101 ATL CSG 3JUL 745P 3JUL 823P DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A -5/0 (50)


4884 ATL BQK 3JUL 1045A 3JUL 1153A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 16/18 (40)
4317 ATL BQK 3JUL 405P 3JUL 509P DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 0/1 (40)

4290 ATL ABY 3JUL 124P 3JUL 215P DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A -3/0 (40)
4926 ATL ABY 3JUL 755P 3JUL 851P DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A -3/0 (40)

4627 ATL AGS 3JUL 1013A 3JUL 1115A DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A -1/2 (50)
4103 ATL AGS 3JUL 311P 3JUL 416P DELTA* AT7 N/A N/A 0/5 (64)
4295 ATL AGS 3JUL 1058P 3JUL 1145P DELTA* CRJ N/A N/A 2/7 (50)
 
Evan767
Posts: 2198
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:52 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:17 pm

Quoting BlueheronNC (Reply 13):
Here are load factors from Feb. 2007:

MCN-ATL: 16.1%
VLD-ATL: 42.3%
CSG-ATL: 43.4%
BQK-ATL: 43.4%
ABY-ATL: 64.3%
AGS-ATL: 68.7%

In comparison, here is June 2006:

MCN-ATL: 31.0%
CSG-ATL: 54.3%
BQK-ATL: 57.8%
ABY-ATL: 60.2%
AGS-ATL: 71.0%
VLD-ATL: 73.7%

Hmmm, that's a bad comparison if I've ever seen one. June and February? Stick to the same month.


As for DL dropping Macon, good. Put the aircraft on more routes out of LAX, if ASA can still fly out of there. I am thinking LAX-ABQ, LAX-DFW, and LAX-JAC would make good use of those aircraft...
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:43 pm

In some ways I'm surprised, in other's I'm really not. I used to live in Warner Robins, Georgia which is about 15-20 miles south of Macon, but about 5 or so from the airport. In fact, I think the airport was actually closer to Warner Robins than dowtown Macon.

Just a random rundown of points about MCN, and in no particular order:
-A huge percentage (probably most) of the passengers going in and out of MCN were Air Force personnel going to or from Robins AFB for military business. This was the one thing MCN had going for it.
-Part of the problem with MCN was that the flights became very limited. All flights went out in the morning. They all arrived into MCN in the evening. In fact, my mom flew from GSO to ATL last week to do some military work at Robins (She's a reservist). She would have preferred to fly into MCN but she was coming home Friday evening. Well, no evening flights out of MCN so the only option was to fly into and out of ATL and rent a car in ATL.
-MCN's proximity to ATL. The Atlanta Airport sits on the south side of Atlanta. From downtown Macon, it's a fairly easy 1.5 hour (if that) drive up I-75 to I-285. By the time you factor in check-in time, flight time, and connection times, there really isnt an advantage to justify the usually more expensive fair that was required to fly out of MCN. Every so often, it was the same fare or slightly cheaper or not that much more that the conveince was worth the few extra $$$, but when I lived there, it was usually $100 for the ticket to fly out of MCN. For people who lived in MCN (north of the airport), they were driving 15 to 20 miles south to fly 85 miles back north.
**I do realize there are many other small airports that are close to proximity to a major airport and still do well, such as DAY and CVG with DL or GSO and CLT with US, but there are other factors at these airports that MCN does clearly not have going for it.
-I flew a total of 15 different times while living in Warner Robins. 12 of those trips were on Delta and only on two of those trips did I fly out of MCN.

Sad that MCN spent all that money on renovations only to not succeed.  frown  I always hoped while we lived there we would get NW service to MEM or US service to CLT, but I knew that was being optimistic. Well, maybe one will move in to fill in the void.
On top of that, the takeoff in the CRJ out of MCN was pretty cool. Light payload and minimal fuel. Almost like a roller coaster launch.  Smile
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:25 pm

Southwest should take a chance and move in...draw some of that traffic from the ATL metro area as well as Macon itself.
 
milesrich
Posts: 1508
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 2:46 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:40 pm

CSG had mainline Delta Jet service until about 1994. MCN, prior to deregulation had jet mainline service from DL and EA. AGS had mainline service until the Leo Mullin era, and in the 70's had DC-8-61 flights. For that matter, DL used L-1011's into CAE.

But today, with ASA, flying to MCN from Atlanta to connect was a hassle. It was faster to drive, especially with the connection times. And ASA's "wonderful" on time performance I am sure did little to encourage the use of the service.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 18):
But today, with ASA, flying to MCN from Atlanta to connect was a hassle. It was faster to drive, especially with the connection times. And ASA's "wonderful" on time performance I am sure did little to encourage the use of the service.

My dad used to fly out of MCN a lot when he had to go on TDY's (Temporary Duties) for the Air Force. The morning flights out of MCN usually weren't a problem but coming back into MCN was always a disaster.

We found out as a nifty trick to avoid parking fees at ATL when driving there was to park the car at Ft. McPherson just north of the airport then ride the MARTA down to the airport. Ft. McPherson has a long term parking area just inside the main gate and the MARTA station was only 100 yards or some from the gate.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 17):
Southwest should take a chance and move in...draw some of that traffic from the ATL metro area as well as Macon itself.

Possible, but doubtful. I don't know if Southwest operates at any other airports without jetways, but MCN does currently lack those. Not that I complained as I always enjoy walking out on the tarmac.  Smile

I think you'll see another regional carrier move into MCN before you'll see WN come in.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
Atlanta is not that far of a drive from the Macon-Warner Robins area, usually no more than an hour to 1:15 when traffic is smooth. I'm sure this will mean that the shuttle bus companies that offer service between Macon and ATL will see a rise in business.

This is exactly what I have been talking about....."oh, Macon is not that far from Atlanta, let the people drive." Well maybe if ASA invested and maintained smaller aircraft for their smaller cities this wouldnt happen. However, when you are only running 3 early AM flights into your primary hub and nothing for the rest of the day until they all come back..What in God's green earth do you expect passenger loads to do??? If they had a mid morning, mid day and evening departue to ATL I'll bet that they wouldnt be looking at pulling the service. Its plain and simple. I am willing to bet that the passenger loads are there, its ASA that is precipitating the low passenger loads....This isnt rocket science folks.....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
ou can only subsidize losses on short hops for so long.

My point is they are flying there anyway...Now they will just ferry planes from ATL to MCN empty...mine as well have 5 pax on board to pay for the station costs and FA.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:05 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DL/ASA and the TSA have a big dispute last year because the TSA folks weren't willing to staff the airport the whole day, and hence forcing ASA to operate all flights as late evening arrivals/early morning departures? ASA used to have 5 flights distributed over the entire day before that.
 
Kohflot
Posts: 941
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 1999 5:31 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:09 am

MCN sounds like a perfect new market for Skybus. Just call it Atlanta/Orlando and they'll be good to go.

I jest, but it really does seem tailor-made to the Skybus model.
Ask why..
 
access-air
Posts: 1576
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 22):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DL/ASA and the TSA have a big dispute last year because the TSA folks weren't willing to staff the airport the whole day, and hence forcing ASA to operate all flights as late evening arrivals/early morning departures? ASA used to have 5 flights distributed over the entire day before that.

Too bad for TSA.....If the Federal Govt. is going to force TSA on every scheduled airline terminal, then they have no right to gripe. Whether its ATL or MCN they are Govt. employees and they should be happy they have work. If they didnt want to staff the airport the whole day then they should have hired people that would and send the others packing. Once again, this is not rocket science!!!!!!!!

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:23 am

Quoting Kohflot (Reply 23):
MCN sounds like a perfect new market for Skybus.

Only problem is most people live north of ATL..... 90% of the people who live south of ATL are airline enployees and dont have a need for skybus!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 22):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DL/ASA and the TSA have a big dispute last year because the TSA folks weren't willing to staff the airport the whole day, and hence forcing ASA to operate all flights as late evening arrivals/early morning departures?

There was an issue with the airport authority not making the changes to the facility and the airport perimeter that TSA required as I recall...

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 1):
If th MX base is there doesnt it make sense to run a passenger paying flight so long as enough pax are on board to pay for the FA and station personnel???

As I said in the OP, and maybe should have made clearer, the decision to close the maintenance base will not be announced with the decision to terminate service, but will be announced very soon thereafter. It is my undersatnding the closing of the base and termination of service will coincide. I don't think they'll be flying jets down there for maintenance without having scheduled service. I believe both operations will cease simultaneously.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
That means that MCN pax won't be getting cheaper fares to fly out of MCN to places via ATL. I've done searches for cheap flights to places out of ATL and some of the itineraries included an MCN-ATL and ATL-MCN flight and were cheaper than the non-stop out of ATL.

That's interesting. Since MCN is a captive market to DL, I'm surprised by this. Which routes did you choose?

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be surprised if ASA took the old Delta North Tech Ops facility at ATL right next to FL's hangar. They park dozens of their aircraft over there now anyway...inside and out.

That seems like the logical choice.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 20):
This is exactly what I have been talking about....."oh, Macon is not that far from Atlanta, let the people drive." Well maybe if ASA invested and maintained smaller aircraft for their smaller cities this wouldnt happen.

I think I could buy into that argument if it were VLD or ABY, but Macon really is close to the airport.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 20):
However, when you are only running 3 early AM flights into your primary hub and nothing for the rest of the day until they all come back..

I think they really only kept the station open to rotate the maintenance flights down there.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
My point is they are flying there anyway...Now they will just ferry planes from ATL to MCN empty...mine as well have 5 pax on board to pay for the station costs and FA.

Like I said above, I hear the maintenance base and the station will close at the same time.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 15):
As for DL dropping Macon, good. Put the aircraft on more routes out of LAX, if ASA can still fly out of there. I am thinking LAX-ABQ, LAX-DFW, and LAX-JAC would make good use of those aircraft...

1. Youre missing the point. Those aircraft times are still going to be used to fly to MCN for MX..so nothing will change except there will be no passengers. This is why ending PAX service is so stupid.

2. These flights are RONs and not full plane days. They arrive in MCN late and leave early. Thus to move these planes to LAX would require cancelling a bunch of mid day flights to CHA, EVV, TYS etc to free up full aircraft to fly LAX routes.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 27):
Those aircraft times are still going to be used to fly to MCN for MX..so nothing will change except there will be no passengers. This is why ending PAX service is so stupid.

Again, I'm hearing that the base closing and the service termination will be at the same time. Thus, the above will not be a problem.

We shall see...
 
blueheronNC
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:19 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 15):
Hmmm, that's a bad comparison if I've ever seen one. June and February? Stick to the same month.

I chose those two months to get a RANGE of loads under different travel periods - for both winter travel and summer high season leisure/school travel. If I had chosen the same month for two different years, you'd miss out on, for example, the very high Valdosta airport load factors for summer (which makes sense considering Valdosta State University and all). Imagine if airlines only looked at June O&D numbers to Vail, Colorado.
 
kcrwflyer
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Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 21):
My point is they are flying there anyway...Now they will just ferry planes from ATL to MCN empty...mine as well have 5 pax on board to pay for the station costs and FA.

Do ferry flights require a F/A?
Also, how does operating flights with 5 people cover the cost of a station and a flight

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 27):
1. Youre missing the point. Those aircraft times are still going to be used to fly to MCN for MX..so nothing will change except there will be no passengers. This is why ending PAX service is so stupid.

If the pax on board arent enough to cover the costs of the station and flight attendant, then its by no mean stupid.

Would DL close the route if it was making a profit?
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 30):
Do ferry flights require a F/A?
Also, how does operating flights with 5 people cover the cost of a station and a flight

Lets eee that FA easrns less than $10 for that flight...Aslo the station people dont have to be there all day long, just oin teh morning and in the evening....the point youre missing is the threshold for operating this service is very very low(much lower than other markets), and it is tough to believe is cannot meet even that low threashold.
 
EXAAUADL
Posts: 1740
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:48 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:02 am

If they are closign the base, then I understand, but if the base is staying open, it makes no sense.
 
LGA777
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RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:19 am

Two comments to add. When I was a kid we did many driving vacations from our home near TPA and my cool parents stopped at many airports for me to visit. We made one such stop at MCN detouring off I-75 in the early 70's. There was actually an observation deck with seats and we watched the competing DL and EA DC-9-30's both depart to ATL within a few mins of each other, I guess the demand was higher back then and btw CSC also had similar service by both of those carriers. Now back to present day, even with the low demand what about Skybus as an alternate to ATL ? MCN over ATL seem to fit the Skybus mold ?

LGA777
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 26):
That's interesting. Since MCN is a captive market to DL, I'm surprised by this. Which routes did you choose?

I was checking fares from ATL to LAS on Kayak, and several MCN-ATL-LAS-ATL-MCN choices popped up. Since I live a few miles (as the bird flies) south-southeast from ATL, made no sense for me. If I lived in say Jackson, Forsyth, or even Locust Grove, it probably would have been the way to go.



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 20):
If they had a mid morning, mid day and evening departue to ATL I'll bet that they wouldnt be looking at pulling the service.

Years back, the route was mostly operated by E-120s and ATRs with a few CRJs thrown in as well. This was prior to 9/11 and the creation of the TSA. And flights were spread out all over the day.

The TSA issue has become a bit of a problem at a number of smaller airports. I believe this could also be why Air Midwest is bowing out of the EAS flights into AHN.
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 25):
90% of the people who live south of ATL are airline enployees and dont have a need for skybus!

I don't understand this comment at all.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 30):
Would DL close the route if it was making a profit?

And yes if the aircraft could make more money somewhere else.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 34):
The TSA issue has become a bit of a problem at a number of smaller airports. I believe this could also be why Air Midwest is bowing out of the EAS flights into AHN.

Was also the problem when Delta and Continental Connection wanted to start service to Marathon. And personally, I can't wait to hear how the TSA will b!tch and moan about having to actually staff St. Augustine airport for Skybus  Wink .
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 34):
Years back, the route was mostly operated by E-120s and ATRs with a few CRJs thrown in as well. This was prior to 9/11 and the creation of the TSA. And flights were spread out all over the day.

I remember as many as 5 flights per day at MCN. A 6:40 AM departure, 7:40 AM departure, 9:00 AM departure, 11:50 AM departure and one more in the evening around 5:00. My mom and dad were often on the 7:40 AM and 9:00 AM flights when traveling for government business. We had the EMB-120's through at least '02 or '03. ATR's have been off and on. Sometimes it was all jet serice, sometimes it was a mix of CRJ's and ATR's.

The two bonuses for going out of MCN were the extra 1,000 Skymiles for the two additional legs and also not having to drive to ATL (you could easily get someone to drop you off at MCN).

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 33):
Now back to present day, even with the low demand what about Skybus as an alternate to ATL ? MCN over ATL seem to fit the Skybus mold ?

If they did do this, I could see them marketing this as not only an ATL market but also possibly SAV as well.


Quoting LGA777 (Reply 33):
We made one such stop at MCN detouring off I-75 in the early 70's. There was actually an observation deck

That observation deck was still there up till at least the renovation a few years ago. I don't know if it's still there though.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
ilikeyyc
Posts: 1326
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 8:09 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:46 pm

Time to sort through some BS

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
ASA will keep the maintenance base there for now, but look for it to be closed in the near term as well, and the employees offered jobs in ATL or other parts of the system.

The maintenance base will be there in Macon for a long time. The hangar is a place for heavy maintenance and overnight maintenance. When the PAX flights leave, it will stay open for heavy maintenance and they will add 1 line of C-check and a mod. line in the lower hangar. ASA pays very little (if anything) for that hangar. Since we only have 3 hangars in our system, ASA will not be closing the hangar anytime soon.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 4):
US/HP has an MX contractor they use @ MCN and they'll ferry a/c ATL-MCN-ATL..

Correct that Timco is on the airfield and they do b737, A320 and B757 heavy maintenance there- but the ferry flights are actually PHX-MCN-PHX. I have seen, on flight tracker, more than once the plane leaves MCN, gets all the way to Texas and they have to return to MCN.

Quoting DL Widget Head (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be surprised if ASA took the old Delta North Tech Ops facility at ATL right next to FL's hangar. They park dozens of their aircraft over there now anyway...inside and out.

We now have the hangar in ATL and have put a lot of equipment inside.
-----
Working in MCN, it is very convienient to get off work in the morning and head straight to the terminal to catch the first flight out. 100 times better than driving all the way to ATL, paying for parking and going through security at ATL.
Fighting Absurdity with Absurdity!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 35):
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 25):
90% of the people who live south of ATL are airline enployees and dont have a need for skybus!

I don't understand this comment at all.

People who work for airlines have flight benefits, and therefore dont need an LCC airline to fly on
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:54 pm

Quoting Ilikeyyc (Reply 38):
The maintenance base will be there in Macon for a long time. The hangar is a place for heavy maintenance and overnight maintenance. When the PAX flights leave, it will stay open for heavy maintenance and they will add 1 line of C-check and a mod. line in the lower hangar. ASA pays very little (if anything) for that hangar. Since we only have 3 hangars in our system, ASA will not be closing the hangar anytime soon.

Again, we shall see...
 
CitrusCritter
Posts: 770
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 10:36 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 39):
Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 35):
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 25):
90% of the people who live south of ATL are airline enployees and dont have a need for skybus!

I don't understand this comment at all.

People who work for airlines have flight benefits, and therefore dont need an LCC airline to fly on

I think the confusing part is the obviously inflated claim that 90% of people living south of Atlanta are airline employees. Having once lived south of Atlanta, I can truly say that's not the case.  Wink
 
N822ME
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:31 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:14 pm

As much as everybody, myself included, hates to see airline service completely drop off at an airport...

None of us here knows the precise financial situation of this route/station. Operating a field station, especially with your own staff, is inherently expensive. I would gander a guess that the fares out of MCN were frequently low to cut off spillage to ATL. Kind of a self-defeating strategy. The revenue contribution of MCN-ATL can't have been very high, when coupled with a low connecting fare to points west.

Break down that portion of the revenue.... after you have the costs of the airplane, personnel in ATL to board and turn the flight, fuel, etc., covered.... take into account 3 or 4 crew members to pay for, not only salary but per diem and frequently overnight accommodation at the outstation.... plus all of the station costs at MCN: property rent/facilities, station personnel, passenger supplies, GSE, GSE maintenance, ground equipment fuel, utilities, vendor services..... you need to have a decent yield off of those few passengers on the flight to MCN to turn a profit.

But, you may say, lower the fare to drive demand and make it more competitive. Well, didn't solve the problem, unless you do a volume business. Or raise the fare? Ask yourself: Are you going to fly out of MCN for $200-300 more, or drive to ATL? More of you are going to say the latter, when actually faced with that scenario.

As far as the flight schedule, looks like there was little demand to begin with, and they tried the idea of having passenger service on a route primarily kept for MX positioning purposes.

Also, ferry flights don't require a flight attendant, so that argument is moot.
 
kcrwflyer
Posts: 2525
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 11:57 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting N822ME (Reply 42):
None of us here knows the precise financial situation of this route/station. Operating a field station, especially with your own staff, is inherently expensive. I would gander a guess that the fares out of MCN were frequently low to cut off spillage to ATL. Kind of a self-defeating strategy. The revenue contribution of MCN-ATL can't have been very high, when coupled with a low connecting fare to points west.

Break down that portion of the revenue.... after you have the costs of the airplane, personnel in ATL to board and turn the flight, fuel, etc., covered.... take into account 3 or 4 crew members to pay for, not only salary but per diem and frequently overnight accommodation at the outstation.... plus all of the station costs at MCN: property rent/facilities, station personnel, passenger supplies, GSE, GSE maintenance, ground equipment fuel, utilities, vendor services..... you need to have a decent yield off of those few passengers on the flight to MCN to turn a profit.

But, you may say, lower the fare to drive demand and make it more competitive. Well, didn't solve the problem, unless you do a volume business. Or raise the fare? Ask yourself: Are you going to fly out of MCN for $200-300 more, or drive to ATL? More of you are going to say the latter, when actually faced with that scenario.

As far as the flight schedule, looks like there was little demand to begin with, and they tried the idea of having passenger service on a route primarily kept for MX positioning purposes.

Also, ferry flights don't require a flight attendant, so that argument is moot.

Great job going into detail on that.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting N822ME (Reply 42):
But, you may say, lower the fare to drive demand and make it more competitive. Well, didn't solve the problem, unless you do a volume business. Or raise the fare? Ask yourself: Are you going to fly out of MCN for $200-300 more, or drive to ATL? More of you are going to say the latter, when actually faced with that scenario.

On average, it was about $100 more to fly out of MCN per ticket. When traveling by yourself, it was reasonable. But if you were getting two or three or more tickets, the difference added up quickly and made it much cheaper to just drive to ATL.

Quoting N822ME (Reply 42):
As far as the flight schedule, looks like there was little demand to begin with, and they tried the idea of having passenger service on a route primarily kept for MX positioning purposes.

I think the current schedule had something (a lot) to do with the drop in passenger numbers. They shot themselves in the foot when they went to only morning service going out to ATL and night service coming in, though I do recall TSA staffing being part of that problem.


One thing I don't think too many people have considered (whether it will make a difference to DL or not, I don't know) is now some of that traffic that was on Delta going out of MCN will now be going to other carriers, since they have to go to ATL and will subsequently have a number of carriers to choose from. If you were going out MCN, Delta was your only option. Delta will probably still get most of those passengers most of the time, but will lose some to AirTran and the other carriers at ATL.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
atlaaron
Posts: 973
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: DL/ASA To End Service To MCN

Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting CitrusCritter (Reply 41):
I think the confusing part is the obviously inflated claim that 90% of people living south of Atlanta are airline employees.

Right. So I understand exggerations but the number of airline employees compared to the rest of the population South of Atlanta is probably somewhere around 1% or less, therefore an exaggeration such as "90%" is simply absurd.

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